In post 505, popsofctown wrote:You feel certain that scum!pops knows where she should calibrate her tolerance for votelessness for you and your playstyle, and knows you know and others know, and is therefore sticking to it, but town!pops doesn't know where to calibrate it?
...No? You must be misunderstanding.
I think Looker, Ame, Elmo, and arguably Amrun and implosion are more likely to push my lack of voting as scum, so since that hasn't happened much, it vaguely raises the chance of each of those players being town. As I said it's not a strong reason and it's not the only reason I thought one of you and wooper was scum.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:39 pm
by Something_Smart
In post 506, popsofctown wrote:It is interesting that you view your scummiest post as the exit of your scumrange.
It is interesting that you act as though you are the sole objective judge of what is scummy.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:41 pm
by popsofctown
This sounds kind of 9d chess so I feel like I ought to get forgiveness for misunderstanding.
So is that just not an available tell for Wooper and pops, and the lack of a positive is a negative?
Doesn't it also apply for STRQ, if not even more strongly? That makes it not make sense.
In post 506, popsofctown wrote:It is interesting that you view your scummiest post as the exit of your scumrange.
It is interesting that you act as though you are the sole objective judge of what is scummy.
I'm not, but I am a cynic on the validity of introspection in mafia in general, so I will give my read trumping priority over your own guesses about yourself, and I promise to give you the same right in discussing features of my own play.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:43 pm
by Something_Smart
In post 513, Wooper wrote:Do I hold your scumgame in too high regard?
My scumgame is remarkably inconsistent. You might have the right upper bound in your mind, but your lower bound is probably too high.
I haven't played enough scumgames recently to really know for sure what it would look like, actually. I think baton pass was my last scumgame?? and it was quite different from any other I've played.
(And before you go omg how did he know he exited his scumrange, I know what went through my head in that post is not what would have gone through my head as scum.)
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:44 pm
by Something_Smart
In post 554, popsofctown wrote:I'm not, but I am a cynic on the validity of introspection in mafia in general, so I will give my read trumping priority over your own guesses about yourself, and I promise to give you the same right in discussing features of my own play.
I mean even if you don't trust my introspection, I have a leg up in knowing the color of my role PM...
In post 506, popsofctown wrote:It is interesting that you view your scummiest post as the exit of your scumrange.
It is interesting that you act as though you are the sole objective judge of what is scummy.
I'm not, but I am a cynic on the validity of introspection in mafia in general, so I will give my read trumping priority over your own guesses about yourself, and I promise to give you the same right in discussing features of my own play.
That point isn't articulated exactly how I want, but I don't know exactly how to express it. Hopefully it's coherent enough to be understood
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:45 pm
by Something_Smart
In post 521, implosion wrote:@S_S: would you say that, generally, it is within your scumrange to make a post where you describe exactly where you exited your scumrange?
Probably. Only if I actually felt I accomplished a level of genuineness I hadn't done as scum before. (See: baton pass where I said I was out of my scumrange constantly)
In post 554, popsofctown wrote:I'm not, but I am a cynic on the validity of introspection in mafia in general, so I will give my read trumping priority over your own guesses about yourself, and I promise to give you the same right in discussing features of my own play.
I mean even if you don't trust my introspection, I have a leg up in knowing the color of my role PM...
Most players don't know what they would and wouldn't post as town as they think they do, and when you narrow the category down to just items an external observer has any fair shot at evaluating, it's even less
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:47 pm
by Something_Smart
But surely if I can't confidently say what I would or wouldn't post as town or scum, then YOU can't confidently say what I would or wouldn't post as town or scum, no?
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:51 pm
by Team STRQ
In post 505, popsofctown wrote:I don't think mafia is at all fun except when I'm interacting with non-hydras, seems like an impasse.
you sound a bit salty pops
are you ok
-Summer
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:53 pm
by popsofctown
In post 560, Something_Smart wrote:But surely if I can't confidently say what I would or wouldn't post as town or scum, then YOU can't confidently say what I would or wouldn't post as town or scum, no?
Neither party should be very confident at all because mafia is fundamentally hard but I think the external party does better. Perhaps somewhat worse with respect to all things that are AI, but far better among the subset of things external parties have a chance at that are AI.
The past year on this site I have not seen tons of people able to predict when they are about to be accurately townread, or sympathetic to not having produced anything townreadable yet. Only incredulity at not being townread when they think they should be, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:54 pm
by popsofctown
I'm very not ok and have been that way for like the last 3ish irl days but that's probably not what you were asking I guess
I think even when a healthy amount of respect for the scumranges of the members of STRQ is factored in the hydra is significantly above rand to be town from the effort and analysis they've been posting
can you go into this more for me please
more specifically I'm curious whether this is based on the setup or just a general read
-Summer
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:55 pm
by Team STRQ
that was in general pops, I don't remember seeing that kind of tone from you... idk, ever
Krazy is 3/3 townreading me as town and feeling strongly about it so I kind of have the creeps, maybe STRQ is powerwolfing. 1 of the 3 is a marathon to be fair.
oh
then do you believe that this necessarily means he can read you?
I think even when a healthy amount of respect for the scumranges of the members of STRQ is factored in the hydra is significantly above rand to be town from the effort and analysis they've been posting
can you go into this more for me please
more specifically I'm curious whether this is based on the setup or just a general read
-Summer
Tai's rhtyhm with lighter posting and attempts at stirring up content seemed genuine and was a good performance if scum. It should have given the other heads a pass to chill out more if they wanted to but y'all still did stuff
most importantly wallposting the way you did early on, I can't remember where exactly it was a pagetop thought? is more effort than you normally would put in by that point even basing it off town performances ( I don't recall having any scum performances to reference). The setup does exacerbate the incentives for doing, as does Dannflor's brutal Satanic deadlines, town kind of have kill a mafiosi quickly to get back to numbers that reflect some amount of control, the setup is kind of balanced around this notion that losing towns can get that rebalance by heavening scum accidentally but that's not the preferred way to get it done. You seem like you've adjusted your play to the setup when you have excuses not to do so.
Like in terms of, you posting a few super insightful things or things too solvey to come from scum, it's not that type of read, it's a lot more closer to that (idk if some of the town but) at least one member of the dead thread wanted to townread hitogoroshi for posting 99999 characters in the later dayphases of G&R1 with none of those 9999999 characters being thoughts that were trashy unreasonable, just a brute force effort tell, of would scum labor that hard and/or create that much surface area on their slot unnecessarily.
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:07 pm
by popsofctown
Krazy read me correctly in a dance marathon, NK15's large normal, and in Magical Girls Upick. I don't have links, I don't have a wiki, and sprite refuses to sponsor me etc
Is this a policy vote, or do you think the hydra is scum?
This is also, like, a little weird of a question to ask someone who just voted for the same person as you. At least a little, or at least it's not the kind of thing I can ever remember thinking when seeing someone vote with me. Also kind of feels like engaging to engage at that.
ngl my impression of that post was that she was more concerned with how it was worded and pushed rather than the vote itself
-Summer
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:12 pm
by Team STRQ
In post 547, Ame wrote:@Stark can you link me the profile of each of your heads?
I'm about half-way caught up.
Hard TR on Looker. I've played with her as scum and have read a couple of her town games and they are v different.
Wooper also reads differently than what I've seen of his scum play. In the game I read, he was really brownie townie hyperactive (albeit he was jester, but in a game where jester has to play like town to be lynched). Here he seems unpolished and more solve-oriented. I also like the mindset of 234 (though I disagree with the conclusion).
In post 189, Wooper wrote:Homu-chan is scummy which is a tragedy because she was meant to travel back from MyLo to Hell1 to try and stop us from making stupid mistakes
but if she did, scum would just become more powerful and they'd get stronger and stronger with each iteration!
In post 504, Amrun wrote:@S_S: who do you think has the best handle on your meta, of this player list?
Ank probably has played the most games with me. I would say her I guess since she seems to be pretty good at sorting through the things that aren't alignment indicative for me, even if she isn't great at reading me overall.
this is actually really funny because a lot of the reason I'm townreading you at all right now is because two of my hydra partners are hard townreading you
-Summer
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:18 pm
by Wooper
In post 547, Ame wrote:but if she did, scum would just become more powerful and they'd get stronger and stronger with each iteration!
In post 505, popsofctown wrote:You feel certain that scum!pops knows where she should calibrate her tolerance for votelessness for you and your playstyle, and knows you know and others know, and is therefore sticking to it, but town!pops doesn't know where to calibrate it?
...No? You must be misunderstanding.
I think Looker, Ame, Elmo, and arguably Amrun and implosion are more likely to push my lack of voting as scum, so since that hasn't happened much, it vaguely raises the chance of each of those players being town. As I said it's not a strong reason and it's not the only reason I thought one of you and wooper was scum.
counterpoint, 1-2 of the players not in the list being scum is enough to make it likely that scum overall likely won't
players subconsciously are more likely to avoid it as scum once they're aware of it, so really this is almost not even worth bringing up since any difference is almost entirely negligable
if anything this is very lightly scum indicative for looker and very lightly town indicative for Elmo
I hope you are well too.