Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 1.11

Tuxedo Mask(2)

~ HoldenGolden(76), DkKoba(127)

Hoctac(2)

~ Kilgamayan(31), Night 3 Roses(87)

DkKoba(2)

~ Tuxedo Mask(59), enomis(23)


Not Voting (3): clidd(35), ceejayvinoya(30), Hoctac(61)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-29 05:21:12)

FLAVOR

Organ Pipes National Park

The valley walls of Jacksons Creek expose Pleistocene volcanic rocks of the New Volcanic Group. These 2.5 to 2.8 million year-old basalt lavas, commonly known as trap rock, fractured during cooling into vertically standing, hexagonal basalt columns. These columns are locally known as the "organ pipes"

[Tuxedo Mask]

tuxedo why are you not scum and why should drunk me trust you?

hint: imdrinking tonight and drunk me will talk to u again if u are around.

Looking forward to it. Hopefully, our conversation is more productive this time.

[GeorgeBailey]

Clidd has been prodded

[Tuxedo Mask]

#42 What were you hoping to accomplish with it?
#66 and #69 (Nice) are both pretty weak, the joke feels forced as well as the vote, he also ignores the posts Koba is putting out.
#135 What about the interact reads as TVT? How was Holden talk passed, Koba? I feel they were actively trying to engage.
#176 Can you answer this now?
#263What about that makes Hoctac town?
# 472 is referring to the end game of Newbie 1996, and I'd like Holden to elaborate on what he means here. From what I'm reading I disagree with his assessment, as my question was about how it's best for town me to respond to long-form accusations. Which isn't something that has come up this game.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2300 ( I tried to make this look nice and failed.)
#536 Why are you voting Koba? What has changed to make you okay semi engaging them? Were you hoping for a reaction with a naked vote?

Read list:

Town
HoldenGolden: Has a natural and easy-going way about their posts, that feel good tonally. They're also engaged, asking lots of questions and getting lots of content out there.
Roses: Much the same, but not nearly as active. It's also a bit hard to pin them down to being a hydra, for example they don't seem to agree on a read for DKKoba. What is your read on Koba? It seems town, but your response to #364 seems to be against that.
Hoctac: It also feels natural, and their strange questions and more focus on humor seem to be playstyle indictive rather than anything else. Their recent burst of activity looks good too, though I disagree with their take on Roses.
Clidd: I'd like to see more from them, but what I have I like. They're always a very open player, and I follow the logic that they are laying out. There discussion about Koba with Holden specifically looks very town motivated from both of them.
Kilga: I've not seen anything I dislike from them, but they've been pretty passive. They get a nulltown lean. Who's your top scum read at the moment?
CJ & Enomis: I think there is a good chance of scum here, it would explain the weird purgatory game state. With scum being very passive and under the radar. However, having just completed Newbie 2001 I'm willing to wait on Enomis here. Cj on the other hand has been much active, but not saying anything.
@CJ You say you have sheep playstyle, but there have been multiple pushes from players, what about them hasn't appealed to you? Why would you go for Enomis over anyone else?

I feel like this whole game has just a conga-line of players waiting for other players to respond. Dkkoba retrospective comes next.

Spoiler: Quotes I'm asking about

imo what to do with someone that doesn't want to hammer depends on how they handle the situation. Someone that goes "no I'm townreading them and that's that" and shoves their fingers in their ears can be sent to the guillotine the next day because that reeks of scum wanting to avoid hammering a supersaint. I'd be substantially more willing to give leeway to someone that goes "I'm townreading this person for A B C reasons and I think the case against them doesn't fly for X Y Z reasons" and actually makes an effort to dissuade the lynch onto someone else they find scummier. (Assuming their argumentation isn't all bunk, of course.)

Too much word salad 2/10
VOTE: kilga

I will now forever refer to bombs as the bada bing bada booms

My vote on Holden stays. Most awkward guy so far.

But I am going to have to eventually lynch you for identity theft.

Does it really count as theft if you literally gave them that avatar, though?

---

Heading to bed. DkKoba vs. HoldenGolden reads Town/Town slapfight to me at this juncture. I feel like they may just be talking past each other.

now i'm just confused. was that a tuxedo townread, ceejay scumread, both, or neither?

-D

But what were you going to say before Hoctac answered? When you thought the question was addressed as you.

I'm not sure, I'm still getting my bearings in this game. Some people seem very friendly but I'm not sure if being friendly makes someone town or mafia.

Also, I liked the person who made the first push against Night 3 Roses. For making the push itself; I think it was productive and useful of them!

Hoctac could be townie after all I guess.

How much mafia have you played @hoctac?

Alright disclamer, too much drinking. I've lost track of tjme(I think the sun is coming for me) and fuck if I can read.

So imma just goddam say it and say that tuxedo clothes me and I dont know quite why but he pingles me. Prob paranoids from telling the secrets of how to respond to shit in that newbie. Intuink hisbinteraction with the other dunk badtard showed this because hebfucking did it. He just did it on? It's hard to fucking explain.

Tuxedo is a bad fudge

VOTE: dkkoba

In post 364, DkKoba wrote:
i answerd ur dumb questions nerd nerd and ur pivot is not logically consistent. ur tone towards me suggested u thought i was town. so ur sudden pivot is not genuine.


How to burn thru towncredit in 1 sentence or less, Walter

[Tuxedo Mask]

I wanted to be cool, and have the numbers link to the posts and whatnot, but I could figure out how to do it. So you're stuck with this monstrosity. I'm sorry.

[DkKoba]

why not hyperlink the posts with [post= ] [/post]?

[Tuxedo Mask]

Is that how?! Ugh, I even tried looking it up. I was messing around with the URL function and got nowhere. Thanks.

[Tuxedo Mask]

So I started this reread to figure out where I had gone so off track with my read of Dkkoba.
After reading the game over, I have found these posts.

I think #59 - 61 shows a fundamental disagreement of how to use votes.
#93 Feels like a genuine attempt to solve and win the game outright for town. I understand that effort is NAI, but effort in this way, especially after their first high effort attempt was proven faulty shows a very protown motive.
#98 Pings me, Koba hasn't even given Kilga time to respond to their vote on them. Instead, jumping onto Holden wagon, even though the reason applies more to Roses and me. What changed between post 73 and 98?
#303 What are the other things that pinged you about Kilga?
#315 really helps put them into perspective, though it really isn't something I agree with. It even explains my confusion over things like 73 and 98.

I think taking time away and pulling out the frustration I'm feeling for mafia as a whole, I think I have a good town read of Koba. Right below Roses. They are active and solvey, not just in pushes but in theory analysis as well. I also have a better understanding of where they coming from over the Clidd thing, though I still disagree with their initial reaction, or how they reacted to me questioning them.

Spoiler: Posts I'm refrencing

Sure we can go with that. More like tl dr materiał that prompted me to vote them

I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean. What about that is alignment indicative?

fixed also added extra stats, the one about essentially 50/50 chance of only having a single type of non vig PR is disconcerting.

anyways I think holden wifom'd too much so i think i changed my mind about voting them VOTE: holden

oh ffs i forgot to click preview.

but these 2 posts pinged me bc I feel like scum is more interested in self meta.

theres a couple other things that pinged me too but I will keep that to myself for now since its early. they're the reason for the :S.

I still maintain my vote on hoctac however as I don't think they are towntelling right now.

I dont scumread anyone at this stage of the game. To do so requires a blatent scumslip.

To simplify the questions.
What did you mean here? If the answer is obvious to anyone else, please tell me so I stop making a fool of myself.

How do you determine a good candidate to sheep? Is based on their arguments, or having a prior town read on them?

Arguments mostly, if they make sense to me.

With your vote still on Roses does that mean you're not convinced by their defense, if so why not? What does it mean for your strategy when the person you sheep moves their vote? Are you just waiting for another argument you like?


Sidenote: sorry about that last post, blame my big dumb thumbs and phone posting.

ok I never actually scumread anyone early on. my "scumreads" are always meant to annoy prod and push players to getting emotional. emotion betrays alignment more often than not. is that more clear?

[Tuxedo Mask]

UNVOTE: Dkkoba

VOTE: CJ

[DkKoba]

im gay

[Tuxedo Mask]

I guess we aren't having a talk 2.0. That's disappointing.

[Kilgamayan]

@Tuxedo Mask: My top scumread is Hoctac, hence my voting them and spending a number of posts calling them out on their behavior surrounding their Koba vote. I'm not sure how this could possibly be unclear to someone that has been reading my posts? I also don't really agree with the assessment that my play has been 'passive' - I've been actively trying to state reads on things without being prompted to do so because that's how scum get hunted - but I suppose I am biased on the matter.

Regarding #135, at the time, it felt to me like there was a misunderstanding between Koba and Holden and both of them simply did not notice (or did not notice enough to think to clarify things).

Given end-of-day consolidation is looking like it's going to be a thing, I will state that my lynch preference order hasn't really changed from 495 (Hoctac > ceejay > enomis). I suppose I could be convinced to vote for clidd - he has seemed generically fine at a glance but his posts haven't left much of any sort of impression on me - but certainly not ahead of any of the three on my priority list. Needing to vote for anyone else to secure a lynch ranges from mildly annoying to very annoying.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Tuxedo Mask: My top scumread is Hoctac, hence my voting them and spending a number of posts calling them out on their behavior surrounding their Koba vote. I'm not sure how this could possibly be unclear to someone that has been reading my posts? I also don't really agree with the assessment that my play has been 'passive' - I've been actively trying to state reads on things without being prompted to do so because that's how scum get hunted - but I suppose I am biased on the matter.

Yes, but your vote has been parked there for over 400 posts, I was wondering if anything of Hoctac's recent activity had changed your view of them? Or is the timing of their vote on Koba still the scummiest thing that happened this? Say Hoctac is telling the truth. Where then?

Why would you want Cj or Enomis lynched? And why CJ first?

[Night 3 Roses]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

You townread them based on this one post? They didn't address my points and just called it an OMGUS, that's NAI at best.

it's a tonal read obviously

@hoctac

[DkKoba]

I guess we aren't having a talk 2.0. That's disappointing.

sorry got caught up in a game i am hosting off site. it just started tonight and i needed to rush to get materials setup

[clidd]

[clidd]

I'll do a rank of impressions.

[Kilgamayan]

@Tuxedo: Framing my vote as being "parked" is pretty disingenuous on your part, honestly. Nothing Hoctac has done has made me want to change it; see 515, which quotes my major problem with Hoctac's Koba vote. There has been no movement to my vote because Hoctac went a while without posting, and then defended against OMGUS charges while ignoring my major issue stated in 389 (which is quoted in 515). Note that this approach to defense, delaying and then ignoring/misdirecting, is also a scummy act.

---

A restatement of my issue with Hoctac, for (hopefully) full clarity

Koba voted Hoctac in 207, and Hoctac turned around and voted Koba in 208. An argument can be had over how scummy OMGUS is, or if it is even scummy or not, but that is a discussion for another time. The important thing to look at here is Hoctac's vote reason: "For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned." This is later expanded upon in 214 with "Additionally, they implied they disliked Holden's defensiveness, yet switched their vote to me too quickly, indicating they were unhappy with pursuing that push since it was drawing questions into their alignment and motives", and in 240, Hoctac adds that "My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically."

Why is this scummy?

This is discussed in my 389, but for the sake of clarify, I'll explain again.

* Hoctac posts and is engaged with the game in 178.
* Koba unvotes Holden in 186.
* N3R unvotes clidd (an RVS vote) and votes ceejay in 197.
* Hoctac questions N3R's 197 unvote in 198.

Hoctac is at least someone active and engaged with the game in this interval of time, because 178 and 198 are both game-engaged posts. Hoctac is also keeping track of unvotes, as evidenced in 198 by questioning N3R's unvote.

The kicker here is that no effort whatsoever is made to engage with Koba over Koba's unvote, despite Hoctac clearly paying attention unvotes. No voting for or questioning of Koba whatsoever. If the vote and justification in 208 and the further elaborations in 214 and 240 were genuinely what TownHoctac thought, then Hoctac would have made an effort to engage with Koba over Koba's 186 unvote in 198, if not sooner.

As no effort was made in that interval of posts, it is simple to conclude that Hoctac's Koba vote and reasoning was not genuine, and as such Hoctac is scum.

---

If Hoctac is somehow telling the truth then I will look elsewhere, but there is no way to know this until Hoctac flips, so this is a rather pointless question at this juncture.

[HoldenGolden]

Yeah after rereading the reason I have them as a townlean isnt enough especially considering who I think pilots the account.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hoctac

I propose that we all pick someone who we feel is townie to take the fourth slot and someone in the null reaches takes the hammer. Personally I would like eronois (that name is hard to spell) to take it for reasons I'm about to post.

If people think I'm doing it in poor faith I'll gladly unvote and revote hammer position.

[HoldenGolden]

Would people oppose to Dkkoba taking the fourth vote slot and then one of [enormis/CJ] taking fifth. Drunk me was just expressing the paranoia I have over tuxedo due to me telling him how to handle accusations in a newbie which is leading to a WIFOM game I'm no longer entertaining. Cli2d I still like enough not to put as hammer

[Hoctac]

I've answered and addressed this many times now, Kilga. The only reason is that it was when I decided to reread the game and noticed. I didn't notice or care to comment on them when I was previously posting alongside his unvote. That's all there is to it.

How is this scum-motivated? Have you never seen town take a step back to reread things and come up with new/fresher points? And no, OMGUS is not a good scum-motivation whatsoever, as that only draws more attention. I can't see a single good point in your case if you just listen to me in good faith.

[Hoctac]

Just a note: Holden has very high scum equity if ceejay is mafia.

VOTE: ceejay

[Hoctac]

Oh, scratch that; for some reason I thought ceejay was on more votes.

[HoldenGolden]

Had to step away from computer annoyingly so delayed on enmoius post. It's a lukewarm nullscum tho. His ISO isnt nearly as bad as I thought I saw.

Hoctac, the wagons are currently 3-3 but in reality will be 4-3 since CJ will vote for you most likely. Convince me why I should switch my vote. Bribes are welcome. Outting potential scum partners is even better, and I'll keep you alive till lylo if possible for such a noble act.

[Hoctac]

I'll give you some shiny new donkey armour to wear.

I thought ceejay dropping his townread on me to adding me to his PoE pool of two might've been scum-indicative, since that was when it was looking like I was a viable lynch candidate today, and he might have to vote me as a counterwagon to him (potentially). The explanation he provided for it might be legitimate though, so it's not a confident read.