Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 2:29 pm
Page 23 of 49
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Looking forward to it. Hopefully, our conversation is more productive this time.In post 549, DkKoba wrote:tuxedo why are you not scum and why should drunk me trust you?
hint: imdrinking tonight and drunk me will talk to u again if u are around.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 2:52 pm
Clidd has been prodded
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:14 pm
#42 What were you hoping to accomplish with it?
#66 and #69 (Nice) are both pretty weak, the joke feels forced as well as the vote, he also ignores the posts Koba is putting out.
#135 What about the interact reads as TVT? How was Holden talk passed, Koba? I feel they were actively trying to engage.
#176 Can you answer this now?
#263What about that makes Hoctac town?
# 472 is referring to the end game of Newbie 1996, and I'd like Holden to elaborate on what he means here. From what I'm reading I disagree with his assessment, as my question was about how it's best for town me to respond to long-form accusations. Which isn't something that has come up this game.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2300 ( I tried to make this look nice and failed.)
#536 Why are you voting Koba? What has changed to make you okay semi engaging them? Were you hoping for a reaction with a naked vote?
Read list:
Town
HoldenGolden: Has a natural and easy-going way about their posts, that feel good tonally. They're also engaged, asking lots of questions and getting lots of content out there.
Roses: Much the same, but not nearly as active. It's also a bit hard to pin them down to being a hydra, for example they don't seem to agree on a read for DKKoba. What is your read on Koba? It seems town, but your response to #364 seems to be against that.
Hoctac: It also feels natural, and their strange questions and more focus on humor seem to be playstyle indictive rather than anything else. Their recent burst of activity looks good too, though I disagree with their take on Roses.
Clidd: I'd like to see more from them, but what I have I like. They're always a very open player, and I follow the logic that they are laying out. There discussion about Koba with Holden specifically looks very town motivated from both of them.
Kilga: I've not seen anything I dislike from them, but they've been pretty passive. They get a nulltown lean. Who's your top scum read at the moment?
CJ & Enomis: I think there is a good chance of scum here, it would explain the weird purgatory game state. With scum being very passive and under the radar. However, having just completed Newbie 2001 I'm willing to wait on Enomis here. Cj on the other hand has been much active, but not saying anything.
@CJ You say you have sheep playstyle, but there have been multiple pushes from players, what about them hasn't appealed to you? Why would you go for Enomis over anyone else?
I feel like this whole game has just a conga-line of players waiting for other players to respond. Dkkoba retrospective comes next.
#66 and #69 (Nice) are both pretty weak, the joke feels forced as well as the vote, he also ignores the posts Koba is putting out.
#135 What about the interact reads as TVT? How was Holden talk passed, Koba? I feel they were actively trying to engage.
#176 Can you answer this now?
#263What about that makes Hoctac town?
# 472 is referring to the end game of Newbie 1996, and I'd like Holden to elaborate on what he means here. From what I'm reading I disagree with his assessment, as my question was about how it's best for town me to respond to long-form accusations. Which isn't something that has come up this game.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2300 ( I tried to make this look nice and failed.)
#536 Why are you voting Koba? What has changed to make you okay semi engaging them? Were you hoping for a reaction with a naked vote?
Read list:
Town
HoldenGolden: Has a natural and easy-going way about their posts, that feel good tonally. They're also engaged, asking lots of questions and getting lots of content out there.
Roses: Much the same, but not nearly as active. It's also a bit hard to pin them down to being a hydra, for example they don't seem to agree on a read for DKKoba. What is your read on Koba? It seems town, but your response to #364 seems to be against that.
Hoctac: It also feels natural, and their strange questions and more focus on humor seem to be playstyle indictive rather than anything else. Their recent burst of activity looks good too, though I disagree with their take on Roses.
Clidd: I'd like to see more from them, but what I have I like. They're always a very open player, and I follow the logic that they are laying out. There discussion about Koba with Holden specifically looks very town motivated from both of them.
Kilga: I've not seen anything I dislike from them, but they've been pretty passive. They get a nulltown lean. Who's your top scum read at the moment?
CJ & Enomis: I think there is a good chance of scum here, it would explain the weird purgatory game state. With scum being very passive and under the radar. However, having just completed Newbie 2001 I'm willing to wait on Enomis here. Cj on the other hand has been much active, but not saying anything.
@CJ You say you have sheep playstyle, but there have been multiple pushes from players, what about them hasn't appealed to you? Why would you go for Enomis over anyone else?
I feel like this whole game has just a conga-line of players waiting for other players to respond. Dkkoba retrospective comes next.
Spoiler: Quotes I'm asking about
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:16 pm
I wanted to be cool, and have the numbers link to the posts and whatnot, but I could figure out how to do it. So you're stuck with this monstrosity. I'm sorry.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:22 pm
why not hyperlink the posts with [post= ] [/post]?
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:25 pm
Is that how?! Ugh, I even tried looking it up. I was messing around with the URL function and got nowhere. Thanks.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:33 pm
So I started this reread to figure out where I had gone so off track with my read of Dkkoba.
After reading the game over, I have found these posts.
I think #59 - 61 shows a fundamental disagreement of how to use votes.
#93 Feels like a genuine attempt to solve and win the game outright for town. I understand that effort is NAI, but effort in this way, especially after their first high effort attempt was proven faulty shows a very protown motive.
#98 Pings me, Koba hasn't even given Kilga time to respond to their vote on them. Instead, jumping onto Holden wagon, even though the reason applies more to Roses and me. What changed between post 73 and 98?
#303 What are the other things that pinged you about Kilga?
#315 really helps put them into perspective, though it really isn't something I agree with. It even explains my confusion over things like 73 and 98.
I think taking time away and pulling out the frustration I'm feeling for mafia as a whole, I think I have a good town read of Koba. Right below Roses. They are active and solvey, not just in pushes but in theory analysis as well. I also have a better understanding of where they coming from over the Clidd thing, though I still disagree with their initial reaction, or how they reacted to me questioning them.
After reading the game over, I have found these posts.
I think #59 - 61 shows a fundamental disagreement of how to use votes.
#93 Feels like a genuine attempt to solve and win the game outright for town. I understand that effort is NAI, but effort in this way, especially after their first high effort attempt was proven faulty shows a very protown motive.
#98 Pings me, Koba hasn't even given Kilga time to respond to their vote on them. Instead, jumping onto Holden wagon, even though the reason applies more to Roses and me. What changed between post 73 and 98?
#303 What are the other things that pinged you about Kilga?
#315 really helps put them into perspective, though it really isn't something I agree with. It even explains my confusion over things like 73 and 98.
I think taking time away and pulling out the frustration I'm feeling for mafia as a whole, I think I have a good town read of Koba. Right below Roses. They are active and solvey, not just in pushes but in theory analysis as well. I also have a better understanding of where they coming from over the Clidd thing, though I still disagree with their initial reaction, or how they reacted to me questioning them.
Spoiler: Posts I'm refrencing
fixed also added extra stats, the one about essentially 50/50 chance of only having a single type of non vig PR is disconcerting.Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 3:34 pm
UNVOTE: Dkkoba
VOTE: CJ
VOTE: CJ
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:23 pm
im gay
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:18 pm
I guess we aren't having a talk 2.0. That's disappointing.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:21 pm
@Tuxedo Mask: My top scumread is Hoctac, hence my voting them and spending a number of posts calling them out on their behavior surrounding their Koba vote. I'm not sure how this could possibly be unclear to someone that has been reading my posts? 
I also don't really agree with the assessment that my play has been 'passive' - I've been actively trying to state reads on things without being prompted to do so because that's how scum get hunted - but I suppose I am biased on the matter.
Regarding #135, at the time, it felt to me like there was a misunderstanding between Koba and Holden and both of them simply did not notice (or did not notice enough to think to clarify things).
Given end-of-day consolidation is looking like it's going to be a thing, I will state that my lynch preference order hasn't really changed from 495 (Hoctac > ceejay > enomis). I suppose I could be convinced to vote for clidd - he has seemed generically fine at a glance but his posts haven't left much of any sort of impression on me - but certainly not ahead of any of the three on my priority list. Needing to vote for anyone else to secure a lynch ranges from mildly annoying to very annoying.
I also don't really agree with the assessment that my play has been 'passive' - I've been actively trying to state reads on things without being prompted to do so because that's how scum get hunted - but I suppose I am biased on the matter.Regarding #135, at the time, it felt to me like there was a misunderstanding between Koba and Holden and both of them simply did not notice (or did not notice enough to think to clarify things).
Given end-of-day consolidation is looking like it's going to be a thing, I will state that my lynch preference order hasn't really changed from 495 (Hoctac > ceejay > enomis). I suppose I could be convinced to vote for clidd - he has seemed generically fine at a glance but his posts haven't left much of any sort of impression on me - but certainly not ahead of any of the three on my priority list. Needing to vote for anyone else to secure a lynch ranges from mildly annoying to very annoying.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:41 pm
Yes, but your vote has been parked there for over 400 posts, I was wondering if anything of Hoctac's recent activity had changed your view of them? Or is the timing of their vote on Koba still the scummiest thing that happened this? Say Hoctac is telling the truth. Where then?In post 561, Kilgamayan wrote:@Tuxedo Mask: My top scumread is Hoctac, hence my voting them and spending a number of posts calling them out on their behavior surrounding their Koba vote. I'm not sure how this could possibly be unclear to someone that has been reading my posts? I also don't really agree with the assessment that my play has been 'passive' - I've been actively trying to state reads on things without being prompted to do so because that's how scum get hunted - but I suppose I am biased on the matter.
Why would you want Cj or Enomis lynched? And why CJ first?
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:32 pm
@hoctacIn post 516, Night 3 Roses wrote:it's a tonal read obviouslyIn post 511, Hoctac wrote:You townread them based on this one post? They didn't address my points and just called it an OMGUS, that's NAI at best.In post 289, Night 3 Roses wrote:i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgusIn post 216, DkKoba wrote:nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?In post 208, Hoctac wrote:VOTE: DKkoba
For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:43 pm
sorry got caught up in a game i am hosting off site. it just started tonight and i needed to rush to get materials setupIn post 560, Tuxedo Mask wrote:I guess we aren't having a talk 2.0. That's disappointing.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:11 am
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:17 am
I'll do a rank of impressions.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:26 am
@Tuxedo: Framing my vote as being "parked" is pretty disingenuous on your part, honestly. Nothing Hoctac has done has made me want to change it; see 515, which quotes my major problem with Hoctac's Koba vote. There has been no movement to my vote because Hoctac went a while without posting, and then defended against OMGUS charges while ignoring my major issue stated in 389 (which is quoted in 515). Note that this approach to defense, delaying and then ignoring/misdirecting, is also a scummy act.
---
Koba voted Hoctac in 207, and Hoctac turned around and voted Koba in 208. An argument can be had over how scummy OMGUS is, or if it is even scummy or not, but that is a discussion for another time. The important thing to look at here is Hoctac's vote reason: "For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned." This is later expanded upon in 214 with "Additionally, they implied they disliked Holden's defensiveness, yet switched their vote to me too quickly, indicating they were unhappy with pursuing that push since it was drawing questions into their alignment and motives", and in 240, Hoctac adds that "My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically."
This is discussed in my 389, but for the sake of clarify, I'll explain again.
* Hoctac posts and is engaged with the game in 178.
* Koba unvotes Holden in 186.
* N3R unvotes clidd (an RVS vote) and votes ceejay in 197.
* Hoctac questions N3R's 197 unvote in 198.
Hoctac is at least someone active and engaged with the game in this interval of time, because 178 and 198 are both game-engaged posts. Hoctac is also keeping track of unvotes, as evidenced in 198 by questioning N3R's unvote.
---
If Hoctac is somehow telling the truth then I will look elsewhere, but there is no way to know this until Hoctac flips, so this is a rather pointless question at this juncture.
---
A restatement of my issue with Hoctac, for (hopefully) full clarity
Koba voted Hoctac in 207, and Hoctac turned around and voted Koba in 208. An argument can be had over how scummy OMGUS is, or if it is even scummy or not, but that is a discussion for another time. The important thing to look at here is Hoctac's vote reason: "For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned." This is later expanded upon in 214 with "Additionally, they implied they disliked Holden's defensiveness, yet switched their vote to me too quickly, indicating they were unhappy with pursuing that push since it was drawing questions into their alignment and motives", and in 240, Hoctac adds that "My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically."
Why is this scummy?
This is discussed in my 389, but for the sake of clarify, I'll explain again.
* Hoctac posts and is engaged with the game in 178.
* Koba unvotes Holden in 186.
* N3R unvotes clidd (an RVS vote) and votes ceejay in 197.
* Hoctac questions N3R's 197 unvote in 198.
Hoctac is at least someone active and engaged with the game in this interval of time, because 178 and 198 are both game-engaged posts. Hoctac is also keeping track of unvotes, as evidenced in 198 by questioning N3R's unvote.
The kicker here is that no effort whatsoever is made to engage with Koba over Koba's unvote, despite Hoctac clearly paying attention unvotes. No voting for or questioning of Koba whatsoever. If the vote and justification in 208 and the further elaborations in 214 and 240 were genuinely what TownHoctac thought, then Hoctac would have made an effort to engage with Koba over Koba's 186 unvote in 198, if not sooner.
As no effort was made in that interval of posts, it is simple to conclude that Hoctac's Koba vote and reasoning was not genuine, and as such Hoctac is scum.---
If Hoctac is somehow telling the truth then I will look elsewhere, but there is no way to know this until Hoctac flips, so this is a rather pointless question at this juncture.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:35 am
Yeah after rereading the reason I have them as a townlean isnt enough especially considering who I think pilots the account.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hoctac
I propose that we all pick someone who we feel is townie to take the fourth slot and someone in the null reaches takes the hammer. Personally I would like eronois (that name is hard to spell) to take it for reasons I'm about to post.
If people think I'm doing it in poor faith I'll gladly unvote and revote hammer position.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hoctac
I propose that we all pick someone who we feel is townie to take the fourth slot and someone in the null reaches takes the hammer. Personally I would like eronois (that name is hard to spell) to take it for reasons I'm about to post.
If people think I'm doing it in poor faith I'll gladly unvote and revote hammer position.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:37 am
Would people oppose to Dkkoba taking the fourth vote slot and then one of [enormis/CJ] taking fifth. Drunk me was just expressing the paranoia I have over tuxedo due to me telling him how to handle accusations in a newbie which is leading to a WIFOM game I'm no longer entertaining. Cli2d I still like enough not to put as hammer
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 5:16 am
I've answered and addressed this many times now, Kilga. The only reason is that it was when I decided to reread the game and noticed. I didn't notice or care to comment on them when I was previously posting alongside his unvote. That's all there is to it.
How is this scum-motivated? Have you never seen town take a step back to reread things and come up with new/fresher points? And no, OMGUS is not a good scum-motivation whatsoever, as that only draws more attention. I can't see a single good point in your case if you just listen to me in good faith.
How is this scum-motivated? Have you never seen town take a step back to reread things and come up with new/fresher points? And no, OMGUS is not a good scum-motivation whatsoever, as that only draws more attention. I can't see a single good point in your case if you just listen to me in good faith.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 5:18 am
Just a note: Holden has very high scum equity if ceejay is mafia.
VOTE: ceejay
VOTE: ceejay
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 5:20 am
Oh, scratch that; for some reason I thought ceejay was on more votes.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:12 am
Had to step away from computer annoyingly so delayed on enmoius post. It's a lukewarm nullscum tho. His ISO isnt nearly as bad as I thought I saw.
Hoctac, the wagons are currently 3-3 but in reality will be 4-3 since CJ will vote for you most likely. Convince me why I should switch my vote. Bribes are welcome. Outting potential scum partners is even better, and I'll keep you alive till lylo if possible for such a noble act.
Hoctac, the wagons are currently 3-3 but in reality will be 4-3 since CJ will vote for you most likely. Convince me why I should switch my vote. Bribes are welcome. Outting potential scum partners is even better, and I'll keep you alive till lylo if possible for such a noble act.
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:49 am
I'll give you some shiny new donkey armour to wear.
I thought ceejay dropping his townread on me to adding me to his PoE pool of two might've been scum-indicative, since that was when it was looking like I was a viable lynch candidate today, and he might have to vote me as a counterwagon to him (potentially). The explanation he provided for it might be legitimate though, so it's not a confident read.
I thought ceejay dropping his townread on me to adding me to his PoE pool of two might've been scum-indicative, since that was when it was looking like I was a viable lynch candidate today, and he might have to vote me as a counterwagon to him (potentially). The explanation he provided for it might be legitimate though, so it's not a confident read.