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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:51 pm
by VFP
T3
Ivyeo
Demainer
orctin
Rathe
2 scum here.
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:52 pm
by JacksonVirgo
In post 549, VFP wrote: In post 547, JacksonVirgo wrote:Andante claimed Doctor.
Rational and Rathe both want to wagon them anyway and make Town not cc if there is one.
It's been a general 2v2 attack from Rational/Rathe and myself and Andante. With us trying to explain how stupid it is to not ask for ccs here.
Rational basically choosing to fall into confbias while telling everyone else it's confbias that they are not wagoning Andante. I say plenty of logic as to why ccing here is the best play, why Andante is likely town etc but they choose to actively ignore that every single time.
Unlucky for them we aren't going to lim the Doc claim.
I'll also stand strong that Qndante claims early as town PR. I am not going.to discuss further on this though.
Who's scum for you Jackson?
I'm confident on Orc, unsure on anybody else at this point since the focus has shifted to Rathe/Andante/Rational and myself heavily the past while
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:53 pm
by JacksonVirgo
Would scum!rathe actually try to keep a vote on a PR claim? Assuming Andante is Town, as if Andante is scum Rathe is a valid partner.
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:54 pm
by VFP
In post 493, T3 wrote:Andante seems like real doc here. And I think that would explain the initial panic and bad reaction.
Rational might be town but has flawed logic.
VOTE: Rathe
I like this T3 vote.
Rathe goes high up for me as without claiming and just standing behind Rational makes them safe for tomorrow on a Doc flip.
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:59 pm
by VFP
In post 552, JacksonVirgo wrote:Would scum!rathe actually try to keep a vote on a PR claim? Assuming Andante is Town, as if Andante is scum Rathe is a valid partner.
Yeah I can see that happening. Rathe wasn't as vocal as Rational.
Doc flip means we lim Rational who flips town and then that's 2 days later...
A scum flip would highly suggest Rathe as Doc anyway so not claiming here isn't something I see town doing.
I also don't think Andante and Rathe ever become to scum pair here. There's no need to bus your buddy on a PR claim like that. 8v1 night 1 is nearly always a loss for scum.
Not to mention that scum then rule out a column possibility by admitting Doc is a possible role.
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:03 pm
by VFP
In post 522, orctin wrote:T3-Rathe-Jackson - so i need to look at these 3 - right now i'm betting there is a scum in here - and might be the better play - we eliminate one of them - scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day
This would suggest that if scum, so is T3.
But I could be wrong here.
@orctin
Can you touch base on this more?
Let's go over why these 3 are scum?
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:08 pm
by VFP
In post 523, Ivyeo wrote:VOTE: Rathe
This is E-1
Comes back, still voting, no CC
Is this town to anyone?
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:13 pm
by VFP
Demainer looks pretty town to me.
In post 445, Demainer wrote:it outs the setup for scum, not the prs. they still need to hunt for pr
This is just town minded here.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:23 am
by orctin
In post 541, JacksonVirgo wrote: In post 539, orctin wrote:i think at this point even if Rathe isn't eliminated Day 1 scum will have hard time not night killing them the coming night
You are seriously obsessed with the scum NK. Why would that be
Not sure what your asking - where i play scum get 1 kill every night - as a player what they do each night does effect things so why would i not be concerned?
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:37 am
by orctin
In post 555, VFP wrote: In post 522, orctin wrote:T3-Rathe-Jackson - so i need to look at these 3 - right now i'm betting there is a scum in here - and might be the better play - we eliminate one of them - scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day
This would suggest that if scum, so is T3.
But I could be wrong here.
@orctin
Can you touch base on this more?
Let's go over why these 3 are scum?
Right now I dont think Rathe is scum - his vote after the doctor claim was too immediate and to telling now
Jackson - He started out slow but has come on lately - he's making logical post and discussions so i have no reason to question his alignment at this time
Which to me leaves T3 as very probably Scum
Far as those questioning myself - i'm town - You dont see me trying to jump on a vote right now in trying to save myself - i'm trying to let town sort our who would be the good choice today at this point
Also - Dont think we aren't looking your way as well - the player you were replacing was on the questionable list of a few people - your doing a good job swaying those thoughts at this time - we will have to see long right
Right now i think T3 is the best vote to eliminate - Andante and Rational need to get off each other and look to better choices - and i have no idea why i have pinged Jackson's radar - but town needs to come together on a vote and one we all or at least majority agree on
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:49 am
by orctin
Vote: T3
There - to clarify my position
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 am
by VFP
Why is T3 scum then?
In post 559, orctin wrote:Far as those questioning myself - i'm town - You dont see me trying to jump on a vote right now in trying to save myself - i'm trying to let town sort our who would be the good choice today at this point
So why should I consider you as town than scum pretending this for credit?
Scare tactics won't make me back down for the record.
I'm not here to look town to you. I'm putting scum in the seat today.
You are one of 5 players that can be scum.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:03 am
by VFP
Great, at least that tells me that you weren't only trying to distance with T3.
So let me hear the case on why T3 is scum. I think I have enough experience with T3 to know what people should wrongly see as scum posts.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:11 am
by Demainer
As explained earlier, Goon/Goon means doctor will be cced in every possible situation. They know this. The only possibility where the scumteam decides to fakeclaim doc is if we have a newbie/newbie scumteam that panicked early on with the constant pushing, and is trying to get out of the current situation with an early bus. Which means the most likely partner is probably also either rathe or rational. rational wouldn't make sense because he was the one who created this entire situation in the first place, necessitating the doc claim, which leaves rathe. rathe wouldn't make sense either because an se would know better than to tell their scummate to fakeclaim when it's not even close to e-1. So, on this alone, andante can't possibly be faking it, since no one has partner equity with andante if she's faking it.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:12 am
by Demainer
In post 481, RationalMadman wrote:2-goon setup is 2/3 probability of nobody CCing Doc eben when demanded to... It's perfect fakeclaim.
can you expand on this?
i really can't understand the point you're trying to make here.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:15 am
by orctin
In post 415, T3 wrote:I doubt that a real doc claims with 2 votes. This feels like scum knowing they wil die and drawing out PRs early.
In post 423, T3 wrote:Demainer looking townie. JV/Andante may actually be a viable scumteam.
In post 448, T3 wrote:Andante's entire reads have been based on who scumreads her and she has had zero input outside of that. Then when pressure is applied she defaults to AtE, and then a PR claim.
In post 415, T3 wrote:I doubt that a real doc claims with 2 votes. This feels like scum knowing they wil die and drawing out PRs early.
In post 493, T3 wrote:Andante seems like real doc here. And I think that would explain the initial panic and bad reaction.
Rational might be town but has flawed logic.
VOTE: Rathe
T3 seems to be playing both sides of the fence here - Andante is scum, Cant be real doc, is real doc, votes for rathe but doesn't really followup on the logic of Rathe's vote. T3 been on a scum side most game and hasn't give much reason to put town side - so when i reduced to those 3 i mentioned before and process of elimination - T3 stands out to me
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:17 am
by JacksonVirgo
In post 563, Demainer wrote:
As explained earlier, Goon/Goon means doctor will be cced in every possible situation. They know this. The only possibility where the scumteam decides to fakeclaim doc is if we have a newbie/newbie scumteam that panicked early on with the constant pushing, and is trying to get out of the current situation with an early bus. Which means the most likely partner is probably also either rathe or rational. rational wouldn't make sense because he was the one who created this entire situation in the first place, necessitating the doc claim, which leaves rathe. rathe wouldn't make sense either because an se would know better than to tell their scummate to fakeclaim when it's not even close to e-1. So, on this alone, andante can't possibly be faking it, since no one has partner equity with andante if she's faking it.
That's also wrong.
There's a 1/3 chance that a doctor fake-claim succeeds in a Goon/Goon setup. I know this because I've done it before
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:17 am
by JacksonVirgo
In post 566, JacksonVirgo wrote: In post 563, Demainer wrote:
As explained earlier, Goon/Goon means doctor will be cced in every possible situation. They know this. The only possibility where the scumteam decides to fakeclaim doc is if we have a newbie/newbie scumteam that panicked early on with the constant pushing, and is trying to get out of the current situation with an early bus. Which means the most likely partner is probably also either rathe or rational. rational wouldn't make sense because he was the one who created this entire situation in the first place, necessitating the doc claim, which leaves rathe. rathe wouldn't make sense either because an se would know better than to tell their scummate to fakeclaim when it's not even close to e-1. So, on this alone, andante can't possibly be faking it, since no one has partner equity with andante if she's faking it.
That's also wrong.
There's a 1/3 chance that a doctor fake-claim succeeds in a Goon/Goon setup. I know this because I've done it before
That's where there is a Town Cop.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:19 am
by Demainer
In post 522, orctin wrote:T3-Rathe-Jackson-Andante-Rational
The 2 scummies are most likely of these 5
The Doc claim - I can understand it from both sides, Andante seems to a person who doesn't do a lot of arguing in the way this day has gone, and i see a point of frustration for her (and sadly this is why a lot of new people dont stick with mafia cause these types or arguments happen a lot, and are part of the game) - Taking this into consideration - if my read on Andante is correct - then even as scum i dont think she would fake claim doctor, she would just say "fuck it, i'm scum, eliminate me so i get having to deal with rational" - So i actually think she's telling the truth - If she's not then she made a hell of a play for someone that "appears frustrated easy"
I would love to eliminate Rational - just cause i disapprove of the playstyle, you can be argumentative and aggressive, but he takes it to a whole nother level it seems, that's why i original voted for him, cause this is more a bully playstyle than anything - sorry but just my thoughts. But does that make him scum, I'm still unsure of him cause he totally could be.
T3-Rathe-Jackson - so i need to look at these 3 - right now i'm betting there is a scum in here - and might be the better play - we eliminate one of them - scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day
This reasoning is really weird, why would you base our elim today on who scum will kill tonight? Not town at all.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:21 am
by Demainer
In post 539, orctin wrote:Reading back Rathe's immediate vote on Andante after her Doctor claim is concerning - i think at this point even if Rathe isn't eliminated Day 1 scum will have hard time not night killing them the coming night - it was too quick a reaction to not do so, which if true would make Andante scum. It's the only logic to Rathe's quick vote i can see.
I mean even a scum player should have a pause to the claim instead of the quick vote.
Lampshading to the max, you know you slipped in the previous post, and now you're covering it up by doubling down.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:21 am
by Demainer
VOTE: orctin
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:25 am
by JacksonVirgo
Catching up now
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:30 am
by orctin
In post 569, Demainer wrote: In post 539, orctin wrote:Reading back Rathe's immediate vote on Andante after her Doctor claim is concerning - i think at this point even if Rathe isn't eliminated Day 1 scum will have hard time not night killing them the coming night - it was too quick a reaction to not do so, which if true would make Andante scum. It's the only logic to Rathe's quick vote i can see.
I mean even a scum player should have a pause to the claim instead of the quick vote.
Lampshading to the max, you know you slipped in the previous post, and now you're covering it up by doubling down.
Slipped what - i'm just talking - if your taking something as "i slipped" then please allow us to know so the whole town knows there
Cause right now all i'm seeing is sometime pushing the vote to the side instead of looking at the real scum targets
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:30 am
by JacksonVirgo
In post 554, VFP wrote: In post 552, JacksonVirgo wrote:Would scum!rathe actually try to keep a vote on a PR claim? Assuming Andante is Town, as if Andante is scum Rathe is a valid partner.
Yeah I can see that happening. Rathe wasn't as vocal as Rational.
Doc flip means we lim Rational who flips town and then that's 2 days later...
A scum flip would highly suggest Rathe as Doc anyway so not claiming here isn't something I see town doing.
I also don't think Andante and Rathe ever become to scum pair here. There's no need to bus your buddy on a PR claim like that. 8v1 night 1 is nearly always a loss for scum.
Not to mention that scum then rule out a column possibility by admitting Doc is a possible role.
By that are you agreeing with me or otherwise? Your wording here is somewhat confusing.
The doctor claimant is NOT flipping today, that's final and even if they did Rational wouldn't be the push post-flip imo.
A frustrated scum!andante could 100% do this play here and Rathe either in coordination or out of opportunistic nature does this in return to either set up a possible Tracker claim (as to why they are refusing to claim) or reap in the town-cred if Andante gets flipped or Masonry claims.
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:31 am
by JacksonVirgo
There would be no real reason for scum!rathe to vote the PR claim without a reason. So if they do flip red, there's a reason they voted there that is not just "I want the PR gone"