Mafiascum.net

Fair enough. I'd opened with the intent to poke at you because I find several of your reads to be highly questionable but recognize now's probably not the time to argue with that, we can talk later. Best of luck in dealing with your apartment crisis, I hope things work out for you.

In post 540, RH9 wrote:By the way, if I really was Mafia, I wouldn't have targeted DaTacoX, for sure. Prism's, by the far, one of the most towny players, and their reads are probably the most accurate.

If Prism is clearly a town leader and their reads are accurate then, why is Prism still here?

The way I see it, either scum is Flow Trap slot or it's Prism based on the NK.
If Flow Trap was scum then it makes sense to kill someone other than Prism who was gunning to eliminate them, with the concern that if they kill Prism then the NK might lead back to them (Flow trap).

If scum is Prism then obviously they can't NK themselves and so they kill the next towniest person.

The problem with Flow trap slot being Scum is that they are an SE and I believe SEs would kill the towniest person (being Prism) even if there's a chance it pointed back because the argument could be made that the kill would have come from any competent scum team.

There's also the possibility that the scumteam consists of two newer players and Prism is townreading them, which could tie back to RH9 using Prism's read accuracy as a soft clear for himself - ie Prism townread DTX correctly so obviously she's correct that I RH9 is also town, with the attempt to cast Prism as the leader to unwittingly eliminate town on scums behalf.

Interested in others thoughts on the NK (night kill)

Not to undercut your current line of questioning, CheekyTeeky, but since you're here, could you clarify the following for me:

In post 434, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 425, flow trap wrote:

In post 424, Connordragon07 wrote:Panicked for a second cuz I thought y'all just mislynched while I was gone lol.

Slip

(Just kidding)

I think it's a legit slip.

In post 538, CheekyTeeky wrote:I feel better about Connor after relooking through their iso, that's all I've done so far lol.

How did you go from beliving connordragon's statement was "a legit slip" to "feeling better" about him today? What exactly changed your mind? Why do you not believe that post is a slip anymore?

I think Night Kill Analysis is a rabbit hole of WIFOM most of the time and rarely leads to useful conclusions. You yourself have outlined three different possible scenarios for why DaTaco was the nightkill, I could easily contribute several more. How are you going to evaluate these scenarios and decide which is the most likely explanation?

I don't find such speculation to be helpful. Unless you can strongly suggest there is someone who would kill DTX, then NKA is effectively useless.

What reads do you find questionable? I think of the one I have on your slot is probably the most stereotypically Prism read in existence, for better or for worse, but I know I have given others.

I hate to explicitly highlight the idea of doc/JK protection but any NK analysis that does not account for it fails from the start. I won't pass judgement on the validity of NK analysis in general but I usually steer clear from it until lategame.

Also, the most straightforward reason that I am town is that I would have let town no elim then used it as a learning opportunity after the fact. Even with an emphasis on teaching, it helps to see for yourselves the consequences of a no-elim rather than just hear my seminar on it.

In post 555, Prism wrote:What reads do you find questionable? I think of the one I have on your slot is probably the most stereotypically Prism read in existence, for better or for worse, but I know I have given others.

That's certainly true. Do you find your reasoning on flow trap (townread on you came too easily) to be a reliable way of catching scum?

If it's not you, yes.

...Or Hectic

...Or Ffery

...Or Nacho

Look man, you've got a point but I try

Right, so, that's a heuristic you probably be reconsidering if town.

But anyway, you know I don't like talking about my own slot, as it is I've scarcely read most of flow trap's posts, that's not important to me.

Your scumread of Connor seems mostly fossilized, based around him changing his read of you early in the game, in a timeframe where you had barely posted. Has anything he's done since then come across as scummy?

I think there are other times where it has served me extremely well, and I have repeatedly called it one of my most useful tools. Recognizing that I don't always hit in my application is easy, and I will readily cede there is a miss rate and room for improvement. The read itself should be the least surprising thing in the world to you. All of the wrong applications I listed I corrected within two games days except for our Trust Fall game. (Which wasn't even the first time I did it to , see Chara's Folly. If you're curious for examples that worked, mastina/GreyICE both in Warehouse 13, HEM in Forest Fire.

Connor hasn't done anything to actively lower them since, they just haven't really impressed with seeming town either.

Do you understand how difficult it is for me to believe that you saw the classic Prism read on your slot, which you have repeatedly been a victim of, and your criticism appears to be that it is scummy for me to have it rather than that I'm just the same town dumbass I always am?

In post 560, Prism wrote:I think there are other times where it has served me extremely well, and I have repeatedly called it one of my most useful tools. Recognizing that I don't always hit in my application is easy, and I will readily cede there is a miss rate and room for improvement. The read itself should be the least surprising thing in the world to you. All of the wrong applications I listed I corrected within two games days except for our Trust Fall game. (Which wasn't even the first time I did it to

you

, see Chara's Folly. If you're curious for examples that worked, mastina/GreyICE both in Warehouse 13, HEM in Forest Fire.

Connor hasn't done anything to actively lower them since, they just haven't really impressed with seeming town either.

In post 561, Prism wrote:Do you understand how difficult it is for me to believe that you saw the classic Prism read on your slot, which you have repeatedly been a victim of, and your criticism appears to be that it is scummy for me to have it rather than that I'm just the same town dumbass I always am?

Right, well, I had asked if that read worked for you, being aware that you'd been unsuccessful with it prior, and invoked it to see if it was something you really believed and if my comments would spur some self-reflecton. Your initial admission was to bring up past errors, not successes. If you've found it to work other times then it at least makes some sense why you'd be applying it here with a degree of confidence (although if town you'll have to add another strike to the miss column).

The evaluation of Connor is underwhelming to me. I'd hope at least some evolution, processing of data there, because otherwise it's a thin read, one that'd be okay early day 1 but for being your strongest suspect leading up to a deadline is underwhelming. Of course, I recognize you haven't had the time to re-read and re-evaluate. To me, anyway, while I actively disliked some of his early posting, I thought later in the day he came across as decently town, with some explanation of his style being the sort of player who is trained to only act on hard mechanical evidence, I thought his actions made sense, and there were little continuous bits of evaluation in his posts. The "I thought y'all just mis[limmed]" post does dampen the read though, I've tended to ignore those type of linguistic slips in the past and it's burned me but aside from that one post I don't hate the body of work.

Do you think by your play this game I should be immediately townreading you on entry?

Yes, because everything you know about me, and everything about the constructive critical framing I make in scum PTs/postgame, points to 556 being true.

Again it is mind-blowing to me that you see the classic Prism read, and react with skepticism

I'm going to step back from this for now both because I want a lower postcount than I've had so far in general, and because 11 years of history is going to be completely unintelligible for the rest of the table. To be blunt I was not happy to see you replace into this game specifically..

In post 563, Prism wrote:Yes, because everything you know about me, and everything about the constructive critical framing I make in scum PTs/postgame, points to 556 being true.

Again it is mind-blowing to me that you see the classic Prism read,

applied to someone who isn't even you (same slot tho), before you replaced in

and react with skepticism

Well, you're right, you're not my strongest scumread but I thought I thought it'd be fun to poke at you a bit :3

But I'm not as strongly confident on you being town and wanted to dialogue with you to get you to clarify your stances and see if I could firm up my read. I figured being mildly adversarial was more likely to get things moving in a productive way.

I've got a decent idea of who I suspect to be the team but want to question people first rather than just blabbing my opinion out.

*Shrug* I can try to avoid keeping this conversation too insider-y, I agree with not wanting to alienate the newer players but I really couldn't resist the opportunity to join this game with you.

In post 553, catboi wrote:Not to undercut your current line of questioning, CheekyTeeky, but since you're here, could you clarify the following for me:

In post 434, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 425, flow trap wrote:

In post 424, Connordragon07 wrote:Panicked for a second cuz I thought y'all just mislynched while I was gone lol.

Slip

(Just kidding)

I think it's a legit slip.

In post 538, CheekyTeeky wrote:I feel better about Connor after relooking through their iso, that's all I've done so far lol.

How did you go from beliving connordragon's statement was "a legit slip" to "feeling better" about him today? What exactly changed your mind? Why do you not believe that post is a slip anymore?

I wasn't very invested yesterday, had a relook today, saw a few comments on people thinking about Connor today and thought oh maybe they're the mislim intended today by scum. In terms of progression, mine never makes sense on the surface unless I'm scum because as scum I care about everything I do being unquestionable.
Tldr; I changed my mind + self meta.

In post 554, catboi wrote:I think Night Kill Analysis is a rabbit hole of WIFOM most of the time and rarely leads to useful conclusions. You yourself have outlined three different possible scenarios for why DaTaco was the nightkill, I could easily contribute several more. How are you going to evaluate these scenarios and decide which is the most likely explanation?

I don't find such speculation to be helpful. Unless you can strongly suggest there is someone who would

not

kill DTX, then NKA is effectively useless.

This is aimed at the newbies so feel free to keep your ideas about it's usefulness to yourself.

In post 555, Prism wrote:What reads do you find questionable? I think of the one I have on your slot is probably the most stereotypically Prism read in existence, for better or for worse, but I know I have given others.

I hate to explicitly highlight the idea of doc/JK protection but any NK analysis that does not account for it fails from the start. I won't pass judgement on the validity of NK analysis in general but I usually steer clear from it until lategame.

That's a valid point.

In post 567, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 553, catboi wrote:Not to undercut your current line of questioning, CheekyTeeky, but since you're here, could you clarify the following for me:

In post 434, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 425, flow trap wrote:

In post 424, Connordragon07 wrote:Panicked for a second cuz I thought y'all just mislynched while I was gone lol.

Slip

(Just kidding)

I think it's a legit slip.

In post 538, CheekyTeeky wrote:I feel better about Connor after relooking through their iso, that's all I've done so far lol.

How did you go from beliving connordragon's statement was "a legit slip" to "feeling better" about him today? What exactly changed your mind? Why do you not believe that post is a slip anymore?

I wasn't very invested yesterday, had a relook today, saw a few comments on people thinking about Connor today and thought oh maybe they're the mislim intended today by scum. In terms of progression, mine never makes sense on the surface unless I'm scum because as scum I care about everything I do being unquestionable.
Tldr; I changed my mind + self meta.

...none of that explains how you went from thinking a post was a "legit slip" to not being one.

Further, if you think connor is the "intended mislim", who do you see that is pushing him in that fashion?

The explanation is that I changed my mind.

Further obviously the people mentioning Connor today.

In post 568, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 554, catboi wrote:I think Night Kill Analysis is a rabbit hole of WIFOM most of the time and rarely leads to useful conclusions. You yourself have outlined three different possible scenarios for why DaTaco was the nightkill, I could easily contribute several more. How are you going to evaluate these scenarios and decide which is the most likely explanation?

I don't find such speculation to be helpful. Unless you can strongly suggest there is someone who would

not

kill DTX, then NKA is effectively useless.

This is aimed at the newbies so feel free to keep your ideas about it's usefulness to yourself.

I'll freely give my opinion on theory especially as it pertains to the matter of solving the game we're playing. You are free to disagree with my statements if you think about the game differently, as are the newbies, but there's no reason to shut me down entirely.

I would also appreciate not dodging the question at the end of my first paragraph if this is a line of discussion you intend to active pursue.

In post 551, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 540, RH9 wrote:By the way, if I really was Mafia, I wouldn't have targeted DaTacoX, for sure. Prism's, by the far, one of the most towny players, and their reads are probably the most accurate.

If Prism is clearly a town leader and their reads are accurate then, why is Prism still here?

The Mafia could want us to vote them off so that they can use their NK on somebody else like DaTacoX who is good at being convincing as well as being townread by a lot of players. So Mafia could be trying to get rid of the convincing towny players and then leave the players who are bound to get themselves eliminated for acting like Mafia (e.g. PR hunting). Mafia can also get the Town Leaders eliminated so that they don't need to waste their NK when Town can help them eliminate every other member of Town. I have to say that whoever the real Mafia team, they're probably really smart. Also, I now kind of townread Connordragon07 more.

If you want to sort me, you aren't going to do it by tunneling me with irritating questions which force me to defend myself. You're better off giving me space and assessing my intent overall otherwise we will end up 1v1ing all day and if both town will increase the chances of scum hiding in the shadows.