In post 547, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:You also absolutely did not defend Menno (e.g. #335 is still very open to a Mennokill
Post 335:
In post 335, Wenna wrote: I feel like it would solve some mysteries to execute cpol or Menno. But at the same time, isn't that playing into what the baddies want?
...Saying that - if it's on 5/6 at ~11am tomorrow I will change my vote for an execution. On CES, cpol or Menno. I won't let my indecision stop the town from making a play
I was clearly saying that I did not want to kill Menno or cpol, even if it solved mysteries, because it seemed to be doing what baddies wanted, i.e. that Menno/cpol were town. It's more important to save town than solve mysteries (created by baddies).
So much effort going into trying to make me look bad by rewriting history.
I added that I would vote on players I didn't want to, because there were so many town alive at that point, that I'd follow the consensus, even if it went against everything I thought personally - because I am new at this and I trusted other players.
In post 16, Fenchurch wrote:Post #4 is everything thank you CDB, it was worth joining the game just for the enjoyment I got out of that.
Just to let you all know I thought my role is a bit dubious and if I have to claim I'm not sure it will be believed? Although now I've read the intro to the game perhaps that's not such a worry.
, the powerful yet doomed gladiator from the murder mystery… I’m a VT. My initial reaction, that I mentioned in my first post, is that this doesn’t seem believable because Titus doesn’t sound like a VT. But then all the VT flips have been slightly wacky stuff so…:shrug:
Popcorn to Primate.
Given that you are a VT - what about post #4 led you to think that you claim would be more believed? Your second post does not align with your first here. There is nothing in #4 that explains at that point in time why Titus may be a VT.
Ah sorry I forgot that one Cpol. I’m not sure if you’ve mis-read or mis-written though. At the start of the game I said I thought my claim would
not
be believed. When I got my role my immediate reaction was: that’s weird, flavour-wise I would picture Titus as something like a vigilante, jailkeeper, or mafia strongman. So I imagined that when I claim Titus and VT people are gonna assume I’m lying. Basically I felt like I’d been given a sort of miller role.
Unless you are asking about the second sentence, where I said the intro to the game made me a little less worried? I think that was mainly the sample role PM, since it also had some detailed flavour but was a VT.
In post 550, Wenna wrote:I was clearly saying that I did not want to kill Menno or cpol, even if it solved mysteries, because it seemed to be doing what baddies wanted, i.e. that Menno/cpol were town. It's more important to save town than solve mysteries (created by baddies).
contains the phrases "So they could be either baddy or goody." (referring to Menno) and you've also snipped out "So I'm conflicted." from your quote (i.e. you intentionally removed that line from the middle of your quote).
Can we execute Wenna now?
(And yeah, I guess I was wrong about the specific potato vendor claim. I don't think that's nearly as relevant.)
Edited for term replacement - CDB
Last edited by ChannelDelibird on Sun May 15, 2022 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
I don't have to quote everything I said to prove that you are not correct. I did defend Menno. Of course I also questioned there actions, was not 100% on my thoughts, and said I would try to follow what I thought town wanted. It does not mean I did not defend them.
CES if you are town (which I really don't believe) I suggest looking elsewhere. We have 1 day 20 hours and this is wasting time. Feel free to continue if you're a baddy of course, but it's never going to change my mind about you or my alignment.
Given the current situation, how about we co-ordinate votes with "Intent to vote [player]"? So we can keep track of who is willing to move where, and then once we've got a majority for someone those votes can all move over and hammer near deadline
I'm still thinking no execution is a viable option. I generally dislike a ces execution , I won't be voting wenna today, and whilst I'm not at fenchurch or nothing, I am pretty close to it.
Edited for term replacement - CDB
Last edited by ChannelDelibird on Sun May 15, 2022 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
In post 430, Fenchurch wrote:My current guess for scum team is Wenna, Porochaz, and one of Cpol or CES.
Based on play I have Cpol, Postie and CES as town. Nexus and Poro and Primate as null. Wenna as scummy. But it'd be rare if all the players I think are scummy are actually scum, and mechanics makes me feel that it might be one of Cpol or CES from the 'top'.
So multiquoting on phone is a nightmare. I guess where I'm at is that in this read list you pretty much just chose the less active players as scum. But also stating that you yourself dont have enough trust in your reads that it must be one of your town players as well. I mean who does that? It makes your read list pointless for one. But it also gives you that "out" almost immediately. It's keeping your options open and agreeing with the concensus without ever planning to put a vote down! Throwing a sprinkling of doubt without ever planning to do anything about it.
The fact you have so many is neither here nor there.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
I went back through Day 2. I see more why people thought Klick seemed town. My current reads are:
Strong town: Cpol and Postie. Both have several moments where they seem super genuine and to be approaching the game from a town perspective.
Maybe town: CES and Primate. These players read like town to me, but because they both have a more measured playstyle, I'm less confident, and I could imagine either of them pulling this off as scum.
Scummy: Nexus, Wenna and Porochaz. None of these have done anything that seems clearly town to me, apart from having believable reasons for not engaging with the game. But when there are probably 3 scum out there, I'd be happy to vote any of these.
Let's keep going, klick suddenly becomes town, good to know, no explanation as to why. Cpol and Postie have genuine town moments, I agree. In fact I think it's a general consensus at this point.
Ces and Primate have a more measured style so they are harder to read so maybe town. Yep but once again it's very much a leave options open style paragraph. And beyond that my issue is that you find ces hard to read, I know that. But by this point in the game, you would have made a choice either way on him. Rightly or wrongly you would have made an opinion and you haven't.
Then there are the scummy ones. Who are scum because of an absence of having done something clearly town. Which actually could almost be a descriptor for the "maybe town" category as well. Except we have posted as much. For me I think the case is she didn't like my role name much? I don't like using myself as an example, but I think it's useful in showing that these reads are coming from nowhere and for someone actively posting, voting and making lots of read lists I expect a bit more than meh I'll vote for someone who hasn't done something "clearly town"
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
I did a big old read of the game again today, and I'm really sorry if I am wrong, but I don't land on Wenna being scum. Missing day 1 was a real shame, but Wenna's first post seems pretty town (soft claiming the Menno flavour, and not so soft claiming the VT role...). Yes, it's easily fakeable for scum to do that, but I don't think Wenna would. From there, their initial land was on Postie during the big old Menno discussion. I'm again not sure why scum!Wenna would do that. They've already built up the lurker reputation, either sitting back and letting the Menno waggon continue, or contibuting to it feels like the scum!Wenna play there. It could just be my empathy steering me here, but what Wenna is posting when she does start posting is pretty much coming across as the same as I felt - bemused and unsure, mixed in with a bit of memeing due to wanting to engage with the game whilst being unsure of what to actually do.
Then I think back on all the mistakes town has made this game that have lead us to this point:
Potato discussions D1/D2 (this has not proven to be pro town, has led to pretty useless conversations, and on hindsight no one under pressure would ever realistically give up a potato I think, scum or town - I appreciate I am to blame for quite a bit of this!)
Executing Menno
And now I think also the mass claim (the main takeaway I have from my most recent CES case is that scum would have been cautious and not wanting to speed execute due to not knowing the roles. They now know there is a claimed Jailkeeper, so that will factor in to their gameplay. Whereas Town gained nothing.)
All of these have been positively influenced by CES and/or Fenchurch to happen.
On top of this I do not like Fenchurch's soft claim. The first post read like a power role setup, the explanation at the end heavily leads into the other roles being VT.
I'd vote for either of them, and at this point wouldn't vote for anyone else at this point. My preference is still CES, but would swap if that is where the majority lies.
Unfortunately I am out all day tomorrow, so will have to commit to a vote before then, but I'll try and do that tonight after a few more thoughts come in.
I also still want to know what a blackmailer does please! I've googled but can only find Town of Salem stuff, and that implies it blocks secret communications??
...except some of us (me) have now, and now I am the most "scummy" to Fenchurch. I have asked Fenchurch about why this is, other than absence of town plays, but still haven't had a response other than more of the same: absence of town plays. Even though these can be faked by any talented scum anyway, according to Fenchurch.
I'm currently voting Fenchurch still. Would happily change to CES. Would consider someone else after any decent argument. I don't think no execution is a good idea. Unless of course it's me or noone!
Thank you for reading through again cpol. It was really regretful that I missed the first day, and entirely unintended. I made a big effort to get in there on day two. It felt really difficult to do anything helpful with regards to the Menno situation, I regret not moving my vote to CES now.
You seem to be where I am with things, and as I've said before (or at least often thought) all of your posts have resonated with me (except possibly the odd line, same with Poro). I've had a neutral read on you all game: nothing has not seemed town, but the mechanics have put you in a tough spot (though as I pointed out in post #169, it could have been a setup).
We should try to coordinate our votes before you go AFK.
Obviously no idea what a jailkeeper is, sorry. Maybe that's correct about preventing the other team/s communicating?
In post 562, cpol wrote:I also still want to know what a blackmailer does please! I've googled but can only find Town of Salem stuff, and that implies it blocks secret communications??
Given that Bluffing and Non-Ambulating are also not found in the mafia wiki, I think they're all roles made specifically for this game
I guess figuring out what they do is part of the
torture
fun
In post 565, Wenna wrote:Obviously no idea what a jailkeeper is, sorry. Maybe that's correct about preventing the other team/s communicating?
- Do you think a No Execution would go any other way than me being nightkilled, or possibly me stopping a kill and us being back in the same place tomorrow (albeit with slightly more info)? What advantages are you seeing here?
An extra day when we aren't the most active. Don't get me wrong, I would much rather have a Fenchurch execution, Im not sold on a CES one... bleh. But I do think you are right, the way the next day goes is you die during the night and next day we are in the same position without a JK. Where if we hit correctly today then we'd still probably be without you but we could still no execute.
Edited for term replacement - CDB
Last edited by ChannelDelibird on Sun May 15, 2022 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
In post 561, cpol wrote:From there, their initial land was on Postie during the big old Menno discussion. I'm again not sure why scum!Wenna would do that. They've already built up the lurker reputation, either sitting back and letting the Menno waggon continue, or contibuting to it feels like the scum!Wenna play there
But sitting back and letting the Mennowagon happen is basically exactly what she does! She may vote for Postie but the only reasoning she gives is hidden in some parenthetical in a different post. That's a toothless vote, unlikely to ever sway anything.
And can you really tell me that you can read #335 and think her claim that she thought Menno was town/she defended them is remotely plausible? I'm not sure if it's pure scum revisionism (it seems like you could get away with this for sure in real life) or if she actually misremembered how much she fence sat (with the obvious goal of letting a town execution happen without taking any responsibility for it) but she's doubled down on this obvious falsehood, so I don't think the motivation is actually that important.
Edited for pronouns - CDB
Last edited by ChannelDelibird on Sun May 15, 2022 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
Ok so thank you for that, Postie, I guess we don't no execution. Im still on the Fenwagon as I feel more comfortable there. I am still not convinced of Chris or CES and how they fit with Fenchurch. My worry is that it's not both of them but I definitely think it's Fen.
I think Postie is town, I think Wenna is likely town, there is me, nexus is very firmly in the who the fuck knows territory and I don't see him leaving there, Primate - maybe it's worth reading him again, Chris in isolation feels town... CES... I dont know. I forgot how much I hated this feeling of "we are probably going to lose but there is this sliver of hope". Urgh Im sorry I didn't engage sooner.
And can I profusely apologise I do try and catch myself, but I appear to be very bad at it. Sorry CDB for giving you all the work, I am trying and when I remember I do change it.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
In post 561, cpol wrote:From there, their initial land was on Postie during the big old Menno discussion. I'm again not sure why scum!Wenna would do that. They've already built up the lurker reputation, either sitting back and letting the Menno waggon continue, or contibuting to it feels like the scum!Wenna play there
But sitting back and letting the Mennowagon happen is basically exactly what she does! She may vote for Postie but the only reasoning she gives is hidden in some parenthetical in a different post. That's a toothless vote, unlikely to ever sway anything.
And can you really tell me that you can read #335 and think her claim that she thought Menno was town/she defended him is remotely plausible? I'm not sure if it's pure scum revisionism (it seems like you could get away with this for sure in real life) or if she actually misremembered how much she fence sat (with the obvious goal of letting a town execution happen without taking any responsibility for it) but she's doubled down on this obvious falsehood, so I don't think the motivation is actually that important.
I can read it that at the time Wenna thought that Menno could be town, maybe even strongly thought he was, but given the game runs on doubt didn't want to fully commit to the case at the time. And that with that in hindsight she believes she was stronger on that case than she was, but yes, I would agree there wasn't a staunch defence of Menno.
On the flipside, if Wenna was scum, and we assume that the scum saved me with the potato, why would she have been trying so hard to play devils advocate and stop that particular topic of conversation?
My townreads rn are cpol, Poro, and Primate, so if I can find another towny to throw in there I might feel okay voting Fen too.
CES remains my preference since the very sudden very strong commitment to a Wenna scumread once he was put on the chopping block feels out of character given his behaviour the rest of the game. Guess it could be town going "well if I'm executed we lose, so anything else is better" and exaggerating their scumread as a result, but I think that kind of floundering is more likely to come from scum.
In post 571, cpol wrote:I can read it that at the time Wenna thought that Menno could be town, maybe even strongly thought he was, but given the game runs on doubt didn't want to fully commit to the case at the time. And that with that in hindsight she believes she was stronger on that case than she was, but yes, I would agree there wasn't a staunch defence of Menno.
And then in #338 she notes it 4-4 between supposedly a town read and a suspect and decides not to bother voting? Come on. No amount of inexperience in forum mafia or doubt explains that.
In post 571, cpol wrote:On the flipside, if Wenna was scum, and we assume that the scum saved me with the potato, why would she have been trying so hard to play devils advocate and stop that particular topic of conversation?
I think that's partly undermined by later jokes (?) about voting you to end that saga. To be honest, I still don't really get why scum would potato vendor you - it seems more hopeful than a good strategy; it certainly seems pretty unlikely all 3 scum would be on the anti-cpol train because that would be a terrible strategy. The idea that the scum strategy was to create 2 misexecutions in you and Menno, deliberately avoid them themselves and count on the town to do their dirty work, thereby setting them up for the rest of the game actually seems somewhat appealing (especially in terms of explaining why you survived.)
thank you CDB, it was worth joining the game just for the enjoyment I got out of that.
