Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

The reads list I quoted from mastin was after the post you just quoted, he has you as tier two town, me as borderline tier one town. Show me where in my quote he calls you scum.

That's my point exactly. You chose to use two posts that establish a pecking order between me and you, with you as 'more town' and me as 'less town' or even scum in the case of B&B's list.

[Cabd]

I used their most recent reads lists like I was asked for. Mastin's post that I quoted CLEARLY explained both mine and yours placement on his reads list. You're attacking me answering questions as scummy, and not my actual play the past 8 days.

[Varsoon]

I used their most recent reads lists like I was asked for. Mastin's post that I quoted CLEARLY explained both mine and yours placement on his reads list. You're attacking me answering questions as scummy, and not my actual play the past 8 days.

Except that Anti never asked for most recent reads lists.
In fact, Anti didn't as for anything in regards to Mastin, but merely stated

well danm

who am i going to blamef if i end upl misshammering?

mastin seemed pretty adamant that varsoon was town, thoguh

This is your play

right now

, and I'm criticizing it. I've been criticizing your play all game, too.

Spoiler:

This game is moving so fast.
Anyway, pressure away, but it's pretty transparent when you say it's pressure. Not that it isn't useful, just transparent.


@SashaTrustFund: Of course you do, you fence-sitting coward.

-V

I have returned.
To get muffinman on the same page as me/Metal Sonic, here's how it is:
I believe TD is scum.
-The speed of his wagon might be scummy in itself, but now town has wagon analysis to use, so it ultimately led town out of RVS.
-His response to pressure was to flail and disengage. I don't like this.
-He's been largely absent from the thread and it feels like he's treading lightly. He hasn't made any dangerous plays, which speaks to Scum-TD more than town-TD for me. An innocent man doesn't hold his hand so close to his chest or start to sweat when he's put on the chopping block. He plays the game.

Metal Sonic is keeping OUR vote there because he trusts my judgment and we haven't gotten to talk extensively in a hydra chat/Skype yet. He's clearly a bit conflicted about it, and is reading TD as townier than I am, but it is what it is.

On that note, catching up with the thread:
Venmar's inarticulate push of the TD wagon denies town info and time and feels -wrong-.
Nacho came in. Nacho, when you've got some time, I want to talk.
Replacements, please post. Nacho's catchup is a good model for this. I will hold you accountable for catching up. Nothing annoys me more than parroty-shitty-town that hasn't caught up. It annoyed me in 512 when I was scum, and it annoys me here, too.
TrustFund, I don't like your approach of 'townreading' people. It's an easy-peasy scum tactic. I want you to elaborate on your scum reads and give post-analysis for why those slots are scum. Your play so far makes me sour.
Everyone who thinks Varsoon who is logical is Varsoon who is scum clearly needs to refresh their notions of how I play. Look at games since Xenoblade, or, y'know, look at my play solely in this game and stop relying on something so flimsy as meta. If you have learned anything in playing with me, you've learned I can control my rhetoric and that I review my posts before hitting enter in just about every game.

I still support my TD vote.
I'll talk to MS about it, P-Edit shows he's still conflicted.

-V

If you tell a lie often enough, does it become truth?

If you say that you're Town often enough, does that make you Town?

EVERYONE IN TOWN, WATCH THIS CLIP:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... -questions

COMPARE IT TO WHAT SKULL JUST DID. AND THEN CONSIDER THAT MALA JUST SAID SHE SUPPORTED THIS VOTE.

I can't stand Mala & TF in this game, so, yeah.
Also <3 that clip.
It's 3.35 AM here, but I still can't get in touch with MS.
Going to sleep.

-V

You used to read me so well, so it's unsettling now. I know, things've changed.
I changed. People didn't like how I played before. They lynched it. It sucked.
I'm not incriminating you, just trying to wrap my head around your indecisiveness. It's not what I'm used to.
As far as my 1111 goes, I got pissed. I feel like I've made some good points in this game, and when players like TD, Mala, and TrustFund all actively ignore and treat me like crap, well, it's not cool.

I feel like my hands are tied with Metal Sonic. I need to talk to him so I can really push my scum candidates into the ground. I don't want to take the helm when he's not here, especially because when I do that sort of thing, it tends to get me lynched. I wouldn't care so much if it were just me, but MS is in this slot, too.

Thanks for chatting with me on this, though. It's nice to get to discuss something with another player for once instead of type things and hope someone will care/it'll have an effect.

-V

someone unvote skullduggery so he doesn't get lynched before mastin is able to post

Yes because 2 votes out of 11 is really close to bein lynched.

someone unvote skullduggery so he doesn't get lynched before mastin is able to post

Lol, skull has two votes on 'm.



-V

[2] Skullduggery (Ghostlin, Nachomamma8)

He's not even close to a lynch, Muffin...?

Hahah, this hivemind.

Back to writing the Iliad.

P-EDIT:
TrustFund, you're such a shit. There's nothing indicating that's a joke, unless the disparity from the truth is what you're picking up on, but that incongruity is funny in itself, not so much because MuffinMan was making conscious use of it. You probably think republicans were joking about their stances on rape, weren't you?

-V

TRUST FUND : 178 POSTS : SCUM
WHY:

Trust Fund’s contributions to the game are high-noise and low content, often sheeping out popular and pushable wagons such as Mastin, Skull, and me. Post 1077 really epitomizes this, as the kill list goes for days on people who town is iffy about/has a current scummy read on. TF doesn’t broker wagons or even do significant scum hunting, but just sits in the thread, gut reacts to posts, and passes off reads that magically change and come out of nowhere when it’s convenient to the hydra to have someone in the scum or town slot. MS agrees on the points about insubstantial and loud contributions and posits that TF has a lot of fluff and he has no clue who Sasha is.
MS edit: I later realize that sasha is cabd
If that is the case then cabd has lots of explaining to do(because this is poor considering my high expectations from him)
Vars Edit: I think Sasha is supposed to be Syrana?

@Desperado: I think it's a bit difficult to explain why Nacho is wrong, no offense.

@NS: What are your thoughts on the TrustFund hydra? Also, do you support our vote on Nick?

@SoS: I think most of what bugs me about TrustFund is in game approach and representation/engagement.

-V

HEY VARSOON LOOK AT CABD'S REACTION TEST.

IT'S A REALLY GOOD REACTION TEST.

YOU SHOULD DO THEM MORE LIKE THAT.

I DID A FEW GOOD ONES RECENTLY I SWEAR.

I MEAN REAL GOOD ONES NOT JUST ONES THAT GET PEOPLE MODKILLED.

Anyway, the FTL is back, and, of course, I can't rely on MS to do crap while I'm not here.

SO! Andrius, Nick, and TF are all still on my list of people I don't like.
To be honest, TF's plays today are a bit better if he's town, but absolutely despicable if he's scum. Of course, I'm reading this from the angle of him and BRO being town and Nick trying to set up a 1v1 town between them. I could WIFOM it for days, though, so I'll leave this where it is now.
I'm probably only going to settle on a wagon between Andy and Nick, but I need to talk to MS before making a play he doesn't agree with (YOU SEE MS, COMMUNICATION! COMM UNI CATION!)
I got ice-cream to celebrate us catching scum, though! It was vanilla, which I'm starting to like less and less nowadays. Maybe I'll get something more flavorful next time.

-V

hi this is MS sorry I havent been posting very busy these days

I don't agree with mala wagon because mala is cute <3

btw vars, andy lynch is bad i think he is town because rach flipped scum

nick is a great lynch though!


Happy birthday bork!


I also think that TF's gambit is bullshit/bad

mutley <3 ns <3 i love tip and orc too

sorry saki I've never played played with you before!

ok thats about all i read up till here

Day 1 ended at 2465 posts.
There are currently 1091 posts in D2.
D1, TF had 202 posts. This is an average of about 8% of the posts made that day.
D2, TF has 43 posts. This is an average of about 4% of the posts made so far today.
The game has 21 players. Day one, average input, ideally, would be about 118 posts, or 4.7%.
Day two, average input, ideally, would be about 61 posts, or 5.5%.

Yeah, that's half as many posts from the slot on average (in relation to posts total in the day), and a significant dip in relation to average posts of the game.
TF's done a reaction sort of test, had a garbage Nick vote, and has had solid content across posts for the day.
That's more than other absentees have done.

-V

Of course, this doesn't make TF town. If anything, the loss of steam after a scum PR is lynched, coupled with the opportunism and PR-claim-that-could-be-scum makes me put TF further and further down the scum ladder.


-V

"Completely makes a player Vanilla except FACTIONAL ABILITY, teehee, forgot that part, because lol it's definitely a TOWN PR and not a scum one, silly me~"

-TF

Hahaha, see, now, that's funny.

End of D2, MS was scum-reading Nick and I was pulling back from that read due to the way his wagon was operating. I'm a bit understanding of BRO--without B&B's flip, I'd probably be pushing/pressuring B&B today.

Instead of providing a sweeping generalization, explain why each of my scum reads and lean-scum reads suck. Give me where you stand on those players, and why pressuring/lynching them wouldn't be a good thing for town.

You wanna ball? Get on the court. I don't need comments from some peanut gallery.


P-EDIT:
@TF: Yeah, sure, write off my questions and points as a pissing match and LOLGAMBITRY. I've had about 3 posts in D3 so far, and I don't think a single one has anything to do with so-called 'shitgambits'.
So, when did you decide to start doing this 'ignore players who are very much a part of the game' strategy? It sounds like this began mid-way through D2, rather than something you're choosing to do right now.
And, if you didn't catch the fucking Nick flip, that's exactly what leads to the kinds of mislynches that scum wants.


P-P-EDIT:
I'm glad you can see what I'm talking about.

-V

voting cop-confirmed town is silly at the best of times but I'm going to out my claim now.

the reason i asked is I tracked you to trust fund last night and I was hoping the story matched the result. it does, but we have two cops claimed? not gonna lie, this sounds like a fake claim especally given that you visited someone who had already claimed they were not vanilla.

This is the most awkward shift to voting me, especially since

I've got crumbs and soft-claims since D1.
My play matches up. Why would I be so belligerent about having Nacho be a part of my gambit otherwise? At that point, I knew he wasn't a PR. I was originally going to VanillaCop Nick as well, then realized my ability was non-consecutive and that it didn't much matter since no one wanted to go with my gambit. I originally investigated Nacho because I was paranoid about his play and I would be especially worried if he was an unclaimed PR that everyone was town-reading. Instead, it's the opposite--he's a claimed non-PR that a lot of people have as scum.

I investigated Trust Fund on N3 because I'm really suspicious of the slot. After his earlier claim, I started to wonder if that claim was a lie in order to seem town. I wanted to verify that TF was actually a PR, and if he wasn't, I was going to drill them today. I've been suspicious of the slot for awhile, and I still am, but I don't really have PR-based evidence to make a case so much as I have interaction and speculation based on play so far.

I'm non-consecutive, so I can't really confirm my role further than this until D6.

Antihero, can you cop every night? Are you an alignment cop as I assume or is there anything different/unique about your cop-powers?

-V

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?


Still think that TF is scum.


-V

maybe Metal Sonic and I have different reads

You quoted him and said yeah you're probably right. Now you disown Sonic's reads?

Also my entire response to the rest is: see syr's post.

Muffin was really obviously scum mason hunting. Speaking of other mason still needs to step forward.

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?


Still think that TF is scum.


-V

Hold on, what was that?

You quoted him and said

yeah you're probably right.

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?

Still think that TF is scum.

-V

Not seeing it, TF.
Also, when I'm talking about 'This' and 'I mentioned this before', I'm speaking towards Metal Sonic's like that 'scum love shooting VTs isnt that great'.
If I was speaking towards the first line about a scum-team between you and Andrius, then my last sentence doesn't make much fucking sense (outside of needless repetition), does it?

It's okay, demonstrative pronouns are hard.

Speaking of teams, it makes a lot more sense for there to be a BRO/TF team considering earlier interaction. Still, no matter what, TF is the root of all evils that I can trace, so I want that slot figured out before anything else.

On the real, why does the other Mason need to step forth?

-V

varsoon where are you I miss you

how do you feel about lynching nacho?

I'm against it.
Metal Sonic trusts you and is all for it.
I trust you and I am suspicious of the slot but hesitant to vote it over my highest scum-suspects. I don't know if scum nacho has the gall to say shit like "I'm gonna coast on my conf-town status". He refused to claim as a part of my gambit, and I don't know if that was because he didn't want to out himself as VT or if he was starting to suspect I could really divine his alignment via shenanigans. After I outed him as Vanilla, he claimed it, but that was under substantial pressure from more than just me.

How do you feel about lynching nacho?


I feel really uncomfortable about all of D5. TF's touting some power play, Antihero's being called into question by Waynegg and BROseidon, etc etc.
Gonna spend some time in some ISOs when I have the time to spend.

-V

Who do I investigate, though?
Guess I'll figure it out.
Fairly certain the last of the scum is between Desp, Bro, TF, Andy.

-V

@TrustFund:

Or, and here's the bizarre thing, maybe Metal Sonic and I have different reads?
Of course we're going to write different things.
It's captivating to see the ways you're trying to spin it to be anything but that.

@Desperado:

Dude, I don't get your angle. Why are you piling on points for me being scum but voting for BRO instead?
Also, what are your points again? That I mentioned the density of claimed PRs versus the nightkill trends and that FTL has hydra dissonance?


I feel like zMuffin was either killed out of panic because he was right (remaining scum is in the pool of BRO, DESP, NACHO) or as a red herring.

Here's my (Varsoon's, that is) current reads:
Andrius - Town
BROseidon - Null-lean-town (Depends on TF flip, tbh)
Desperado - Scum
Ghostlin - Town
Mac - Town
Nachomamma8 - Town
waynegg - Town
TiphaineDeath - Town
Trust Fund - Scum (Panicked when I started calling him out on it, even got his hydra mate to come 'deal with the situation'.)
Antihero - Town (still gut-reading as scum, but logic says otherwise)


VOTE: Trust Fund

VOTE: Andrius

Andy, if I get this right,
-If you're hammered by a townie, the townie dies.
-If you're hammered by a scum, then scum doesn't die.
-It does not work in MYLO or LYLO.

I vote that TF should be the one to deliver the hammer.
Why?
I think TF is scum, and that the current plan to hammer down the list and how the results will turn out seems to be pushed really hard by TF as well.
I also believe that Nacho is town, and that having Nacho around longer rather than for less time will benefit us a lot more.


Anyway, My vote puts Andy at L-3, I believe.

It's not as if me thinking you are scum is some new thing that's suddenly come out of the fact we're in lylo together. I've held you as scum for most of this game. Metal Sonic's been skeptical, but I've been firmly standing by this for a long time. The only times that I ever wavered were when you went out of your way to convince me otherwise, or when the wagon on you wasn't getting any traction and I swapped my scum-hunting elsewhere.

[Varsoon]

Then again, maybe I should revisit my theory in 1700 that Bork is scum...

[Cabd]

Checking something with bork, antihero, might be able to prove something to you and make this easy mode.

[Varsoon]

Checking something with bork, antihero, might be able to prove something to you and make this easy mode.

Figures you'll try to make some power play in Lylo by appealing to different authorities.

TF, I'm going to trust you on this, but if Nacho flips town and you live through the night, you better not try to wriggle out of this.

nacho's flipping town
lynch tf tomorrow

cabd's gonna wiggle wiggle wiggle
lynch him

Wiggle,wiggle,wiggle~

[Trust Fund]

I used their most recent reads lists like I was asked for. Mastin's post that I quoted CLEARLY explained both mine and yours placement on his reads list. You're attacking me answering questions as scummy, and not my actual play the past 8 days.

Checking something with bork, antihero, might be able to prove something to you and make this easy mode.

[Trust Fund]

Figures you'll try to make some power play in Lylo by appealing to different authorities.

Look up "appeal to authority" in a textbook and get back to me. I'm asking bork rules about role cards and stuff to not get modkilled.

[Trust Fund]

TF, I'm going to trust you on this, but if Nacho flips town and you live through the night, you better not try to wriggle out of this.

nacho's flipping town
lynch tf tomorrow

cabd's gonna wiggle wiggle wiggle
lynch him

Wiggle,wiggle,wiggle~

Yes because an autowin plan that counted on both of us being dead is still relevant when only one of us can die (thanks to TD) and I'm town means I should clearly suicide.

[Trust Fund]

And you're essentially arguing that it's scummy of me to use a player's newest reads list instead of one of their older ones that paints you in a better light. Time trumps all, bud.

[Antihero]

WITHOUT QUOTING YOUR PM TO THE MOD (obviously), paraphrase what you asked bork.

This isn't a goddamn black box. Preferably, get this to me before bork answers.

[Trust Fund]

I asked him how much of the section of my role card about how my power is lost I could quote vs paraphrase. Because if I can give you the wording of yours (as in worded same as mine) then given varsoon claimed two different results on us after we both had lost our abilities, it would solve the game for you.

[Antihero]

I asked him how much of the section of my role card about how my power is lost I could quote vs paraphrase. Because if I can give you the wording of yours (as in worded same as mine) then given varsoon claimed two different results on us after we both had lost our abilities, it would solve the game for you.

well no, not really. you could be a scum PR with a 1 shot vanillaizer attached (or you could just be making the whole vanillaizer thing up, though it's less likely)

doesn't really solve my problem...

[Trust Fund]

Fair enough. If you want self meta you're welcome to ask for it. Otherwise, just keep reading I guess.

[Antihero]

Varsoon!!!!!!

i want to trust you

i really do

i've just been burned by you before

you hurt me...


will you hurt me again?

[Trust Fund]

RachMarie - Krelian, Mad Scientist of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 1.

A Mad Scientist can assign passive abilities to other players.

(I'm assuming these are negative utility passives, fwiw.)

Malakittens - Miang Hawwa, Ancient Seductress of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 3.

An Ancient Seductress is a roleblocker, and she also has a 1-Shot redirect

Aj The Epic - Id, Split Personality of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 4.

A Split Personality is a Conditional Godfather Bulletproof Ability Enabler Traitor.

Desperado - Shakhan, Goon of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 5.

So.... passive-ability giver, roleblocker-redirector, bulletproof godfather traitor, and a goon.


Scum has four ways to fuck up town PRs: Assigning passives, roleblocking, redirecting, and false results (godfather). So me being scum would make it 5 ways. Know what they don't have, though? Any way to investigate and rolehunt.

[Antihero]

this is a great point and that's what's kept me from hammering you, TF

personally, if I were designing this setup, I would round out the scum PRs with an investigative one

[Varsoon]

Anti, I'm town this game. That sentence alone should be enough.


TF, you using PR-related play and deferring to what the mod says is exactly what appealing to authority is. I teach a college class in rhetoric, I'm fairly certain that I have the capacity to pick up on the kind of appeals you're making.

Furthermore, you making an argument that your PR couldn't be scum-related because your claim wasn't investigative/rolehunty is pretty flimsy. Here's why:
1. We have no way of confirming your claim, which means you could be an investigative PR and we don't know it.
2. If I was scum with this investigation power, why would I out myself immediately, and share all of my investigates with town? If I was lying about my Antihero investigate, why would I introduce doubt about it damning his slot instead of, you know, just damning his slot? Furthermore, you seem to have forgotten that I've been using my power for last couple of nights, where there have clearly been night kills. In every game I've been in, an active PR can't do both a night-kill and an investigate.
3. You're relying on setup speculation in order to appeal to logic and get Anti to vote for me, instead of actually making a case against me. It's fairly scummy, since it's -speculation- on the setup, rather than a case for me being scum.

C'mon, wiggle more, TF.
It's cute.

[Varsoon]

EBWOP: an active PR can't do both a night-kill and use their ability, in my case, an investigate.

[Varsoon]

I've been telling the truth about my PR and my abilities since I claimed. Furthermore, I've shared my investigations with town every single time I used my power. I never used my ability to damn anyone's slot, moreover, I've been critical about my results and often tried to interpret the best way to use them and garner information from them. It didn't always work (see my 'gambit' with Nacho/Nick), but that doesn't mean I haven't tried to help town at every turn. I like to think that my scum-hunting has helped capture a good deal of the scum team, and if I recall, I was the outspoken force behind the Mala lynch and the AJ lynch.

You, TF, on the other hand, have lied about your PR, allowed players to talk about your PR in ways that weren't reflective of your claim, and you've pushed plenty of mislynches this game. You've been trying to undermine me and misrepresent me in this final day, and, failing that, you've tried to use speculation on the setup as well. I've exposed the weakness and artifice in all of your arguments. I'm Charles Barkely, and I've thrown the winning shot for town. All I need is for Anti to get on the court and slam it in the goal.

[Cabd]

Anti, I'm town this game. That sentence alone should be enough.

This tells me two things. One, you're scum. Two, you're trying to use your prior ban for trust telling to curry favor here. Taking this up with bork/zoroaster.

[Trust Fund]

Anti, I'm town this game. That sentence alone should be enough.

This tells me two things. One, you're scum. Two, you're trying to use your prior ban for trust telling to curry favor here. Taking this up with bork/zoroaster.

And while I'm at it, I can cite me withholding role info or even making up role results as town plenty of times.

[Varsoon]

Oh, so I'm not allowed to ever claim town ever again in any game ever?

[Varsoon]

You keep scrambling for new things to 'catch' me on, rather than defending yourself against my criticism.
Wriggle, wriggle.

[Trust Fund]

Mmmhmm, I'll get back to you once I'm done talking to borkie.