Mafiascum.net

In post 5671, Titus wrote:

In post 5667, ooba wrote:

In post 5665, Benmage wrote:

Dear Faraday

Ooba thinks the game is still 2 scum teams.

Did you balance for that?

There's nothing to say it's not a odd one team-even one team night killing scum teams.

At least, I'm thinking about the game in the right terms. We have 11 people and 4 scum. That's 2 mislynches if it's just Chaos. Alfred + 3 people isn't going to cut dice - you give reads now as complete teams - who are the other three scum partners.

Get out of moonlogic. No night had multiple kilks. No flips of this second team. Just stop please.

In post 5676, Titus wrote:Magua, did you get your permablock back?

In post 5674, ooba wrote:Good lord. One team kills on odd nights, one on even nights - some amount of crosskill protection\rbing involved.

In post 5676, Titus wrote:Magua, did you get your permablock back?

In post 5673, Magua wrote:@ooba: Was serious asking about why we should treat Benmage's fake-guilty different from yours. Want this thought process.

In post 5678, Magua wrote:In post 5674, ooba wrote:
Good lord. One team kills on odd nights, one on even nights - some amount of crosskill protection\rbing involved.


1) Have you ever seen a game with this setup where the teams did not win together?

2) How do you imagine this works if one team is eliminated?

In post 5682, Titus wrote:BM, shut up. I am trying to plan with the town a surefire road to victory.

In post 5628, Alfred Borden wrote:Benmage does not belong to the category of people who get to hardfakeclaim1v1 and then be allowed to live.
Also, he is scum.

In post 5631, ooba wrote:You want evidence of the two scumteams - you lynch Benmage. Not my fault both teams can't crosskill properly.

In post 5633, SafetyDance wrote:

In post 5616, Nautilius wrote:This game pisses me off so horribly based on how beautifully it started that I am probably willing to burn a policy lynch today. On Syryana. And Jesus fuck I never thought I would say that.

You pushed the boulder that started the avalanche.

Have not forgotten who created that 1v1 against town....and is still here.

In post 1096, Syryana wrote:Problem #1: 3000 fucking scumreads. Scummy by itself? No. Scummy when considered of the context that he's done jack fuck to narrow the list? Hell fuck yes.

Problem #2: Reaction to scumslip. As town, when somebody else goes up to me and says "LOL YOU SCUMSLIPT LOL", the immediate town reaction (in my humble 13er opinion) is some variant of "lolthefuckyousmokintierce".

What did we get? "What? I scumslipped? Where?" *looks for scumslip for 20 minutes* "Oh, you mean that?" *proceeds to overexplain scumslip*

Hmm...

Problem #3: Best reasoning for anybody being in his scumlist is "X is most likely to flip scum." No reason X is scum. No indication of thought process. No indication of scumhunting. Hell, corollary to that, there's no reason anybody in his list is any alignment. The moral of the story: THERE'S NO INDICATION OF THOUGHT PROCESS OR ANY KIND OF ALIGNMENT HUNTING IN HIS READS LIST OR ISO.

Questions?

In post 1133, Syryana wrote:As for Cephrir, my primary reason for scumreading him is because I recently saw him up close and personal as town, and this ain't

nothin

like I saw him play.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

It's a bit of reading, but Ceph is laid-back, personable, pops his reads out here and there, scumhunts in a leisurely fashion, etc.

Here? His tone's completely different; he's very serious, almost formal. He's been super serious in his interactions and has been almost totally oblivious to the tempo of the thread; none of the playful banter present in 527, ignoring all the trolling going on, etc. Hell, he's so profoundly literal this game that he latches onto my mollie troll, takes it seriously, and proceeds to agree with the dislike of lurking

right after saying he's seen nothing townish from me.

(which is another reason i think he's scum but it helps my tone point so dealwithit)

His ISO also feels superficial as hell. Like, I dunno how better to describe it. It's that he's trying so HARD to look town. I feel like it's all an act. There's a bunch of on the surface scumhunting, but I don't get a thought process from it. It's just a bunch of stuff. Take his Nautilus read for example. He's got Nacho as "town as fuck", yet in his ISO he interacts with them in one post. In that post, he gives a bunch of responses to Nautilus, but reading them doesn't really give me that good "holy shit I think Nacho is so fucking town" feeling. This is true of much in his reads list; the people he takes stances on are ones he's hardly interacted with and the ones he's interacted with the most (i.e. Thor) is in his null list!

In short, Cephrir isn't playing the way I know he plays as town, he's too serious, and his ISO is devoid of any kind of discernible thought process.

In post 2690, The Alchemist wrote:

In post 2688, Tierce wrote:Oh, please. That is a hell of a push on AGar, truly impressive.

Considering you've come out of hiding purely to mislynch two, almost three townies now, you're running a great track record yourself.

In post 3408, The Alchemist wrote:

In post 3399, Titus wrote:VOTE: quadz

No defense, no questions. Clearly caught scum here.

In post 3723, The Alchemist wrote:

In post 3710, Tammy wrote:Alchemist - you know what I am. Taking into account a swingy upick that has some claimed bastardish time elements, and taking into account roles before alignments, what do you think the likelihood of me

(Town!)

, a macho cop

(Town!)

, a permanent roleblocker

(Town!)

, a global roleblocker

(Scumfuck!)

, and a joat with a roleblock

(Scumfuck!)

all being on the same team is! I might need help before I jump down the rabbit hole.

There you go. As to your question of does it make sense to have all that shit on one side, nope nope nope (scum would get REKT, town would be essentially vanilla against all that)! Dive gracefully into the rabbit-hole, ex-wife!

In post 5604, The Alchemist wrote:

In post 5603, Nautilius wrote:The part that resonated with me is that he usually gives up when guilted this late in the game. I'm probably going to lynch Syryana tomorrow regardless of what the hell happens.

Yer like four Days late on that one mate.

In post 5240, kanyeknowsbest wrote:n1 elle had not killed anyone
n2 goat had not killed anyone
n3 quadz had not killed anyone
n4 pnj, resulted in "VICTARION"
n5 alfred had not killed anyone
n6 ceph had not killed anyone

In post 4936, Tammy wrote:Nacho darling, I hope you're happy for what I'm about to put myself through. Also, quote stripes. *shudder*

In post 35, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 7, Tammy wrote:I liked Hurricane Hodor better :/

(You should watch the movie. You'll change your mind, promise.)

Also, would you judge me if I said kanye made me swoon?

He interacted with me immediately and followed my line of thought regarding kanye.

In post 5, Alfred Borden wrote:

Are you watching closely?

Vote: Stupendous Man

With this hydra, you're going to be getting Llamarble posting at weird hours while I stick mostly to the morning/afternoon.

Also, we won't be signing our posts as we feel our styles are distinctive enough that you should be able to tell who is who.

Also also, I tried trolling 'marble about our alignment in this game but it failed miserably =/

He's doing a dance about being town here. He tried trolling Marble about their alignment and failed. I know, because we talked before the game, that he would have been miserable drawing scum here. Well, he's just miserable drawing scum anywhere because he hates it, but him joking about trolling his hydra partner when I know he was looking forward to hydraing with Marble because he respects how well he can scumhunt makes sense if he's town.

In post 295, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 243, Tammy wrote:But I also don't think much of the quadz wagon. However, he's easy to read, yeah? Empire? I mean I know you guys are voting there, but he doesn't seem off the wall to me?

I remember not too long after #194, Llamarble pointed it out to me and we both had the same kneejerk "WOW LOOK AT THE OBVSCUM" reaction. I'll do my best to sum up our AIM convo about quadz but it basically ended up resulting in this:
-> Llamarble found the post scummy because something either is a slip or it isn't; he found the "this looks like a slip" comment to be scummy because scum want to go after things that :look like: slips in order to bolster the credibility of their votes and make them appear more believable.
-> I hate to use the "o" word here, but personally, I found his vote opportunistic given the above "slip" logic. Scum tend to care a lot more about making sure their actions appear justified in the eyes of everyone at large so I feel like he shoved the slip logic in there for that reason.
-> Shadoweh already pointed it out, but I really dislike his unvote in #213. Seems more like a backpedal after he began drawing some heat for it rather than it being a genuine "my bad". #227 doesn't make sense either since there's plenty of scum motivation in unvoting once something like 4 people react to the vote negatively.

As far as elleheathen goes, both of us really disliked #110 -- lots of stuff had happened between that post and her first one, so her coming returning to the thread again only to comment on a fairly throwaway post by PB was fairly shitty. Llamarble also thought her responses to the wagon felt like scum responses ("huh what I do" -> "that's not worth voting me for", which I agree because it implies that the conclusion, e.g. that she herself is scum, is true). However, #282 seemed townish to me and I want to give your game a good once over since I didn't really follow it while it was ongoing (and I definitely want to get 'marble's second opinion as well). The "Wight" discussion went way over my head because I know almost nothing about the flavor and it completely slipped my mind to ask Llamarble what that was all about >_>

In post 247, Tierce wrote:I had hoped Empire would draw scum for my long-delayed revenge.

Oh you have absolutely no idea how much I was dreading opening that PM box and I think the sheer force of my sigh of relief when I saw I was town caused extensive property damage to my immediate area. Plus, you know I wouldn't be posting as scum as I'd have already drowned in an ocean of my own tears so I'm pretty obvtown already.

Two things. Only slight thing of concern is that he likes to bus, but this could just as genuinely be him scumreading quadz and being right.

But look at his response to Tierce here. I like the way he responded to Tierce and called himself obvtown. He'd most likely do it as scum too because it would be expected, but it wouldn't feel natural. The drowning in an ocean of his own tears thing reads real.

In post 297, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 296, Tammy wrote:What did you think about him making a meta reference concerning me and the difference in behavior in his experience?

Also, do you have a read on shadoweh yet?

The meta reference thing didn't really resonate with me here because it's pretty easy for an experienced player to fake and there wasn't a whole lot of meat to it.

As far as Shadoweh goes, not really. Too early for it and I frankly don't trust my ability to read her.

This is the way empire talks about his suspects. Also, the shadoweh thing reads real because we had just been playing in Wingate where Empire defended and town read a scum!Shadoweh.

In post 353, Alfred Borden wrote:Almost done with this letter I've been writing! I'll move on to the consolidated reads list/meta stuff tonight.

In post 312, Thor665 wrote:
@

Nacho:

I expected way more blazing glory from your catch up and I feel very unfulfilled =/ Please please please towninate faster.
Also, what do you think of Andy and his PR in particular? (I have meta markers for him but it's tough for me to find stuff while looking through it personally.)

[

I loved this "Nacho your catchup was crap, please towninate faster" because that was exactly how I felt with Nacho's entrance. Also, Nacho would be one of the people that Empire would expect to be able to read him, so I'm not sure how much he would call attention to him this way. I mean I think he might say *something* to Nacho, but not in this way.

In post 372, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 370, StupendousMan wrote:@Tammy- Care to elaborate on that vote?

In post 367, Shadoweh wrote:I wish people would townread me for being snippy.

Hmm... nope.

I'm waiting in line at a Chipotle but I just want to say, holy fucking shit, my kingdom for a doublevote right now.

Town. Scum!Empire doesn't check the game while standing in line at a restaurant/fast food place and feel compelled to comment like this. Town!Empire thinks about the games he's in nonstop. He checks the games while he's out and he posts because the game is on his mind. Scum!Empire doesn't really care a whole lot about the games he's in so his check ins are much more methodical than this. This tells me he cared and is far more likely town.

In post 613, Alfred Borden wrote:

@Nacho:

Let's talk about some stuff while I'm still around (well, I'll have to reply to it later but you know what I mean <_<).

I'm cutting out all the reads because this stupid quote stripe wall is going to be long and cluttered enough, but his trying to connect with Nacho on his reads and put his out there and see where Nacho is wrong felt real. I'm just not so sure that scum!Empire interacts with a town!Nacho in his reads this way.

In post 614, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 607, PeaceBringer wrote:did you not get maybe culture, when you are used to the noise factor it is not quite as noted but there was nothing of meaning there...just space. There is a lot of that... please note I come from where no one really explains thoughts and a paragraph would be considered a lot of detail... it is quite different than when I played before where there was a distinct lack of noise or any real engagement... but that is a side note, just to me came off as a lot of words with little meaning

Yawn.

I write lots of words because I actually value complete transparency and engagement, especially when the game's of this size (it becomes easier to miss things). Sometimes, I'll direct things at specific people because either I'm trying to sort the player in question out or I'm trying to see where that person is coming from on a particular read (especially if the player in question is someone I've played with a lot/trust/respect).

But thanks for dismissing my actual thoughts/method as "noise" and "substanceless". Really fucking appreciated.

He sounds irritated that someone is discounting his reads in this way. I just don't know if he would interact with a buddy this way. He values the time he puts into a mafia game, and takes it really seriously, I can totally see him getting irritated that it was discounted as "noise" and "substanceless".

In post 617, Alfred Borden wrote:Anyway, I need to go over the Thor/Benmage argument once more when I come back since I haven't looked too deeply into it, as well as finally sort out the meta stuff.

Also, Syryana, your vote actually rather sucks and you need to step it up. Pretty sure I've posted a lot about my balls. Those are pretty slam dunk towntells here.

Here he is pointing out towntells for himself. There are some things that I just don't see scum!Empire having the *balls* to say. This is one of them.

ab wrote: P-edit: above applies to you too Thor (also, I'm thinking Benmage and Amrun are probtown from what I've read).

In post 908, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 718, Syryana wrote:MacTammyTierceEmpireThorNastyrashaNacho vote this with me pls

Maybe later, I'm hunting

wabbits

cats. Also, you could have done way better than Tammy. Way to suck.

Also, really natural trolling of me. I think he'd troll me regardless, but this sounded playful.

In post 933, Alfred Borden wrote:Holy shit, I don't think I can ever even bring myself to suspect mollie after #895. Call me a sucker or whatever but that shit was just way too genuine and just hit way too close to home.

Spoiler: An Empire Mafia Autobiography

I started playing mafia in 2010 but I've only been playing forum mafia since last year. I came from EpicMafia (which, as you might know, is pretty notorious around here) and I'm used to chat mafia, 10 minute days and being able to call out entire scum teams within minutes. Being able to write lots of words in my old site was basically impossible which I guess is why I really treasure the opportunity to do so here. When I first started playing on MS, the shift was super jarring to me - as in, the concept of not even knowing the full setup (EM setups are all what you guys would call open/semi-open) was just absolutely mindblowing to me. I think I've been picking stuff up pretty easily but I still feel like a noob in a lot of ways and like I really don't know what I'm doing (doubly so now since I've come off a 3 month hiatus).

Looking over this post, I guess I don't really know what the point of it is except to let you know that I know it feels to adjust to a different site in a LOT of ways.

I love love love this post and connection with Mollie. Also, what he brings up is true. He had just taken a 3 month hiatus from mafia due to studying for the bar exams. He missed playing mafia during that time and even before that time had felt like he was sucking at mafia. I just don't see his first game back, after the hiatus with a person he was looking forward to hydraing with, making the posts he has as scum.

In post 1282, Alfred Borden wrote:It's 4am so I'm just going to go through a few people.

Agar is probably town. Scumhunting energy pattern. Andrius' replace out post was a townping too.
Also since Empire wrote most of our posts I probably haven't corrupted the TET daymasonizing system

Amrun might actually be scum. Will revisit when sentient.

A moment of marble being adorable.

In post 1546, Alfred Borden wrote:Hey, I've adventured so far as to attempt eggs with salsa and candycorn. Also I once made a fish and on one half I melted half a hershey bar and on the other half I melted some brie. Neither half was really improved though.
And one time I gave some underclassmen bars of soap and they had to not drop them during the duration of a Prison themed scavenger hunt with shivs and rock breaking.

In other news, Thor is pretty opaque and could be scum.

I'll have to check the timeline, but this all of a sudden determination that Thor being scum might fit with the Cross-site game in which Thor was scum.

In post 1668, Alfred Borden wrote:

Unvote

Oh my god, I want this guy to be scum so so fucking badly but I just can't bring myself to keep my vote on him. Based on what I know of him, I'll be absolutely fucking floored if he's reacting this way as scum.

Thor's probably the least bad of the major wagons right now since my last talk with 'marble had lessened my scumread on ooba considerably.

Vote: Thor

One of 'marble/myself will be around near deadline, I think, if anything happens.

P-edit: Really kanye? In that one scum game I looked at, this dude pretty much awkwardly clammed up under pressure. The reaction here is like night and day.

This feels like the way that Empire reacts to someone he thinks is town but just bad.

In post 1669, Alfred Borden wrote:Tammy, if you read this, you need to seriously step away for a bit and calm down. This reminds me exactly of how mad I got at Saki in Xenologue to the point where I ended up not giving a shit about the dude's alignment and that ended up at least partially contributing to the loss there. Regfan went and pointed out every single one of Saki's towntells after it was over and I felt like an idiot (well, to a point).

SafetyDance just flat out isn't scum and I think you'll be able to see that once you go over this recent stuff again.

No reason whatsoever to try to talk me down from my frustration. As scum, he'd probably find me getting so irritated hilarious and might give a nominal "Tammy you should calm down" but I think that he'd find the noise appreciable whereas as town he'd want me to come down off the ledge and focus.

In post 1862, Alfred Borden wrote:
Tammmmmyyyyy
I was going to sing you a song but now I can't

This happened.

In post 2074, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 1951, Shadoweh wrote:Tierce what do I have to do to join this TET thing you guys have going, doesn't TETS just roll off the tongue? Would I have to stop being really good at fooling you all specifically into townreading me, is that what the problem is? Tammy and Empire probably hate me again but I haven't done anything to you lately! Well, that's not technically true but etc.

Tammy shutup, how could I have suspected that Llamarble and Empire combined was anything but a hunk of man meat?! I mean come the fuck on! (actually I kind of thought if King of the Seals was a miller then finding a not-human was a possible scum result, so I wasn't asking ahead of time. >_> ) Besides, I'm not marrying anyone, it's more like oh giggity yes.

Well, the obvtownie fun club is pretty exclusive. I just checked your background and it would seem that after games like Wingate Mansion you are, in fact, not the kind we're looking for (on a more serious note, this is why I'm just deferring to my other head completely on you). Also, this dragon is in a bit of a funk after Tammy rejected us so sorry, you're going to have to wait for us to learn to love again.

Feels incredibly town. Also, this happened so.

In post 2078, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 2077, macmollie wrote:when were you scumreading syrlacious?

I never was, I'm just stoked that that player (if I'm right anyway) replaced someone I had a townread on for reasons I don't want to get into right now. Worded it poorly probably because I'm not 100% here mentally right now.

Also, re: that alt being cryptic/roleplaying/whatever, I don't think so; there's only one player on the site who posts like that.

He thought it was CES and he was excited. He likes playing with CES and really respects his ability as a scumhunter. I can't imagine Empire being happy that CES replaced into a game where he was in a scum hydra with Marble as he would expect to be caught instantly.

In post 2427, Alfred Borden wrote:

In post 2385, Shadoweh wrote:I've been considering what to say because ooba's responses have made me a little more depressed at the idea of an ooba wagon working, also because I don't think they're bad, even if I agree with like.. none of his reads beyond the obvious ones. Come on ooba, just admit your Messiah case is better and stop joining the hammer outrage, it makes you look bad in general.

This bit just bugs the ever living shit out of me and I have no idea why and I hate myself for it.

Town.

af wrote:

In post 2423, The Alchemist wrote:Glass Towers, I don't have much meaningful to add to Nautilus' analysis of Andrius. Though for the sake of concision: Andrius' play was null. I see nothing in his ISO that's beyond his faking abilities as scum.

Well, the main reason I asked is because Llamarble and I have been going back and forth on it. Honestly, every time I take a look at his ISO, I do get some townpings. I liked the bit where he talked about how he wanted to be more careful in reading Tierce as it was a pretty stark contrast to the way he approached my slot in The Game That Won't Be Mentioned where he just basically excessively sucked up to us. As far as the PR thing goes, I don't know, my impression is that he wouldn't have the balls to fake it as scum "to prove a point" either. Basically what I guess I'm asking with all of this is do you really think he's competent enough to fake this the way that he did? Because my impression from That Game was that he's actually really bad at scum.

He thought he was interacting with CES here; this feels natural and not at all nervous.

af wrote:

In post 2424, Zdenek wrote:You should probably just vote for Spyrex.

Don't feel like it, sorry m8.

Don't think this is how he'd give up a perfect opportunity to bus.

In post 2614, Alfred Borden wrote:Ugh, had a rough weekend so sorry for my lack of engagement recently. On a positive note though, I don't think I've been happier to see lots of pages in this thread than I am now. I'm staying up all of today to reset my sleeping schedule so expect more hours in this game with this half of Your Favorite Magician.

In post 2515, Tammy wrote:Town: Benmage, Cephrir, Garruk, Goat, Messiah, Shadoweh, Tierce,

Probably Town: Alfred, quads, the alchemist, zdenek, nautillus, safetydance

i will lynch any of: SPYREX, elle, ooba, prideandjoy, kanye, (at least on scum is in my town reads...I need to reread)

Ok, you and I need to talk because I've been townreading a lot of the people in your suspect pool and I want to know what's up here:

Really really natural way to discuss with me my reads and tell me I was wrong. Also, bonus for you who think it's only day one we're town reading them off of, this is day three. I cut off the part where he goes into details about the reads he disagrees with me on, but you can follow that if you want.

So yes, his last two hammers sucked and marble could be bringing with the adorable and thompstopping any second now, but I've been through their iso several times and I just keep finding more and more posts that ring town. Like if they're scum here, I'll congratulate him for going god tier after a hiatus, in a game where he'd hate to draw scum, with people he'd hate to be scum against, but I just don't see it happening here.