Mafiascum.net

In post 1178, mastina wrote:

In post 1155, Battle Mage wrote:Despite having not posted anything of value, or read anything of significance - I am Mastina's top scumread.

Yes, exactly--and you continue to have not posted anything of value.

Instead of posting something of value while on V/LA, you've made literally twelve posts explaining why you aren't making anything of value while V/LA.

You spent the time typing TWELVE POSTS to explain "I don't do content while V/LA".
Twelve posts of explaining why you're not making content.

Instead of one post explaining it and eleven of doing anything resembling scumhunting.
Or one post explaining, a second post clarifying, and ten posts of some rudimentary basic scumhunting.
Or even just one post where you officially and publicly declare to the mod that you're V/LA over the weekend, leaving it at just that.
You've made twelve posts, and all of them are excuses to avoid making content.

In post 1158, Battle Mage wrote: a good townie takes a view on these things based on activity across all games.

I did, actually--there was activity from you, content activity,

after

this game has started. I cannot go into more detail than this without violating the Ongoing Games discussion rule, but suffice to say: this game started on Friday; you were posting content elsewhere on Saturday.

You literally were active in at least one other game while doing nothing in this game.

In post 1645, mastina wrote:

In post 1532, Battle Mage wrote:ok as you can tell I've run out of steam...I'll keep going tomorrow until I catch up

Ah yes.

Your 'content' can be summed up as:
Polar Bear Express is an unlikely FL pick (this is fair); Ali/Norwee would be a top pick (this is a bad take that fuels the paranoia on the slot when it's pretty damn clearly false).

Speculating that the confscum talking indicates I am scum (this is a bad take for pretty obvious reasons); calling mastina-Dunn one town/one scum also off of the confscum (this is also a bad take for the same obvious reasons); Bell town (this is fair, as BM should see Bell's townness); reaffirming Noraa's town (this is fair); calling Ydrasse scum (this is a bad take).

Asking for a heads up if at L-1, proving that you're reading the thread because what good would this notification do for you if you weren't? (this is important enough of something that I'm going to requote that post to point it out since I missed this implication the first time).

Calling Toogeloo town (this is fair).

Elaborating on your stance which proves you are reading the game without commenting on it.

Placing an opportunistic vote on Double the Trouble and indicating you are aware that the ic said that there were four names in contention with Ircher and Double Trouble as two of them.

Taking back the bad-Ydrasse take and calling Ydrasse town (this is fair).

Calling Solstice scum, a take that's questionable (I cannot in good faith call it a bad take because there's at least some merit to the accusation, but it is still a questionable stance to take due to the ease and convenience of it).

Calling pichu town (this is fair).

A fluff post, followed by another fluff post.

And then you declaring you're out of steam.

So to reiterate.
Bad reads on 2-5 slots, where you do take back the bad read on one but leave the bad reads on the others.
Good reads on 4, later 5, slots.

And nothing more.

You've developed reads on a grand total of 9 slots (if I am being generous), in a 17-player game. After having read 730 posts, where every slot had posted at least once in that timeframe. You have reads, half of which are bad, on literally only half the playerlist.

Why are people thinking this is in any way Battle Mage as town?
He's being lazy.
He's making bad, easy takes, and avoiding taking stances on most players.
He's refusing to give the game much in the way of actual content.
And this is him after his V/LA has ended.

In post 1646, mastina wrote:

In post 1519, Battle Mage wrote:can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

In post 1523, Battle Mage wrote:it's best to give warning when you put someone at E-1 so they can claim, in case they are a power role, or just because it's good practice/good for the game.

To reiterate:

Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread,

how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1

?

To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

In post 731, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 709, Double the Trouble wrote:HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

He claimed he responded to the message not due to reading the thread, but finding it with a search.

In post 743, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 734, Double the Trouble wrote:

In post 731, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 709, Double the Trouble wrote:HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

i mean yes but why

i dunno, never done it before tbh. *shrug*

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

Which is cemented here:

In post 1526, Battle Mage wrote:also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.

None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?

I call bullshit.

Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.

In post 1718, mastina wrote:Also since Battle Mage reminded me of his posting, this feels the appropriate time to do this:
The game thread opened at Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:50 pm.
Everyone received the daystart PM on Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:59 pm.
So everyone, at approximately 5 pm pst on Friday December 4th, knew that D1 had began and was open.

In post 1943, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 1887, Titus wrote:

In post 1886, MathBlade wrote:@Titus why are you not voting NPOM? I think I missed that.

Because I was a) holding out for BM and b) was going to quick hammer if you voted him.

VLA until Sunday

weren't you voting me for hammering yesterday? (although it wasn't exactly quick, and was very much facilitated by superbowl)

This is a content post by Battle Mage made in that Normal on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:01 pm. A full 20 hours after the start of our game.

In post 1944, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 1908, Rannygazoo wrote:

In post 1831, Battle Mage wrote:I figure it's obvious to scum that I'm a PR at this point anyway so I'll do my proper claim.

Hey BM why do you think this would be obvious to scum or to anyone? I didn’t see where you crumbed it.

lol! maybe ask Flavor Leaf or Titus since they both picked up on it. i was hinting at it for numerous posts today, after I figured there was a risk we wouldn't elim OWER unless I gave a bit more help.

This is another content post made by Battle Mage. On Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:05 pm.

In post 1945, Battle Mage wrote:also, i don't even have the paranoia of OWER-town in a weird setup with 2 town protectives and a roleblocker, given if that was the case scum would just have taken up my offer to elim him, then me.

This is

a third

content post by Battle Mage on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:06 pm.

In post 1947, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 1921, MathBlade wrote:Titus let me be blunt here. You’re acting an awful lot like a fourth scum and this is ELO. I get both NPOM’s and BM’s claims are suspect as fuck. But the fact you’re literally waiting out in the wings for a quick hammer (your words) instead of voting NPOM when in your world there is no way I could be scum is sus as fuck. You’re not even considering traitor which is normal, and I don’t know if the above is a slip. Give me a reason by play you’re town here. Not mechanics. Play.

how on earth is Titus acting like it's ELO? and how is my claim remotely "suspect"? I really hope, if my solve is right, you're just screwing around, and not actually going to throw the game for town.

This is a fourth content post by Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:10 pm.

In post 1948, Battle Mage wrote:I feel like there is probably not one town player left alive who has played well, and virtually every town player who is dead, had a better showing.

This is (an incredibly accurate on-point) fifth content post by Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:12 pm.

In post 1950, Battle Mage wrote:it seems very simple to me. We have 2 claimed protectives. Me and OWER. Unlikely, given all the other claimed and revealed roles. How the claimed masons don't see it, is beyond me. I figure it goes like this: Ranny sheeps Math
Math stalls but ultimately does whatever Titus and Flavor Leaf tell him
I have no idea why but whatever. Just seems a shitty way to lose when we can easily win this.

This is a seventh content post by Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:22 pm.

In post 1952, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 1949, Rannygazoo wrote:

In post 1944, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 1908, Rannygazoo wrote:

In post 1831, Battle Mage wrote:I figure it's obvious to scum that I'm a PR at this point anyway so I'll do my proper claim.

Hey BM why do you think this would be obvious to scum or to anyone? I didn’t see where you crumbed it.

lol! maybe ask Flavor Leaf or Titus since they both picked up on it. i was hinting at it for numerous posts today, after I figured there was a risk we wouldn't elim OWER unless I gave a bit more help.

So you started crumbing it day 3?

it wasn't really crumbing, i was dropping whole fking loaves. i was hoping Titus or FL would be town, take the hint, and we could bury it in content so I wouldnt have to claim.

This is the eighth content post from Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:23 pm.

In post 1954, Battle Mage wrote:it seems to me that you're about to throw away the game regardless of anything I say because you are listening to Titus and FL and not me. You'll forgive me if I don't waste my time going back to dig out quotes which you can easily find yourself (you were here when this all happened and I know you're not stupid). absolutely ridiculous

This is the ninth content post from Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:27 pm.

But here's the important part, and the REAL bombshell.

In post 1959, Battle Mage wrote:can you just look at the claims please, and tell me setup-wise what makes sense - 1 protective and investigative on alternating nights - yes. 2 protectives which overlap awkwardly - no. that's essentially what this boils down to. i only 'crumbed' when i knew it was necessary to risk outting my role to get OWER-elimmed. it doesn't make sense for me to do that as a gambit to save hypothetical partner NPOM when it buys me maximum of 1 mis-elim for 2 consecutive scum elims, or potentially 2 consecutive scum-elims and conftowning somebody else.

If you are masons, think about the permutations here - what makes sense in terms of setup and also the way each player has approached it. It's not like BM doesn't fakeclaim as town often if there's a reason, and it's pretty obvious that the manner I claimed VT (under no pressure, and using the excuse of being neighbourhooded to make it believable) was just to stop me being NKed. My role is alternate night so it kinda relies on me surviving a few night phases to get value from it.

This is the tenth content post from Battle Mage on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:41 pm.
Notice something?

In post 704, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 475, Double the Trouble wrote:Yo where my man Battle Mage at, he knows his shit.
Call out to mah boiiiii.
- Norwee

I'm here buddy. 28 pages on the weekend I'm VLA.
shiiiiiiit
I'm town anyway, I guess Pooky wasn't given the opportunity to pick me.
Team FL go go go!

This was Battle Mage's first post in this game, a declaration that he's V/LA on weekends...at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:32 pm.

Battle Mage made nine content posts in another game before declaring V/LA in this game, then

went back to that game to post more

and still doing nothing.

He made his eleventh content post at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:44 pm.
His twelfth content post at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:44 pm.
His thirteenth content post at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:47 pm.

And then he came back to this thread to post:

In post 731, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 709, Double the Trouble wrote:HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:50 pm.

In post 732, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 708, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 704, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 475, Double the Trouble wrote:Yo where my man Battle Mage at, he knows his shit.
Call out to mah boiiiii.
- Norwee

I'm here buddy. 28 pages on the weekend I'm VLA.
shiiiiiiit
I'm town anyway, I guess Pooky wasn't given the opportunity to pick me.
Team FL go go go!

Have you been reading?

....no. see VLA.

He claimed V/LA as an excuse to not make content at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:51 pm.

And why is this important? Because after claiming V/LA as an excuse to not make content in this game...

In post 1980, Battle Mage wrote:lol scumslip? dude get real.
also, ftr i am never "coached" as scum - people who try, get bussed to death immediately. consider me checked out for the day, as I think this is a lost cause. Math seems more interested in keeping FL happy than elimming scum or even talking about the possibility of elimming scum, or even talking to me about anything actually useful.

...He made his fourteenth content post of that game, AFTER this, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:04 pm.
And a fifteenth, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:07 pm.
And a sixteenth, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:09 pm.
Here's his seventeenth content post, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:11 pm.
Here's his eighteenth content post on Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:17 pm.

And then, there is a timegap from him posting again there...which doesn't correlate to him posting here. (Because his last post here that day was at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:58 pm.)

In post 2022, Battle Mage wrote:VOTE: Nopoweroverme
doesn't look like we can do anything else anyway. what a joke. at least there's a statistical chance he can be scum. It's virtually unanimous anyway, and I'm obviously wasting my breath with Mathblade. But I'm sure my solve is right and this probably flips town. Whatever.

He does however return to make his twentieth content post of the day at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:35 pm.
Followed by 21st content at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:36 pm.
And 22nd content post on Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:38 pm.
With other slight gaps following, because his 23rd content post was at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:44 pm;
His 24th content post was at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:53 pm.

And that was it for him in that game.
He made 24 posts of content in another game, all the while clinging to "I'm V/LA, I can't post content over the weekend" in this game.

That game was him as town, posting up a storm during the time he's V/LA.

So yes.

I have a pretty damn compelling case that Battle Mage's claim of not making content due to being V/LA over the weekend is utter bullshit.

In post 1719, mastina wrote:Okay so I made a small formatting error and counting error in that post and I realize in hindsight I could have turned a lot of those quotes into just links so I probably need to restate this:

This game began on Friday, December 4th, at approximately 5 pm.
On Saturday, December 5th, Battle Mage posted ~23 content posts in another game. 8 before he posted here, then 9-12 before he returned here, at which time, he claimed he was V/LA and could not produce content.
After saying he could not produce content, he then made ten posts of content in that other game.

He was town in that other game where he was posting content over the weekend that he was V/LA during.

So what does that say about his lack of content and hiding behind his V/LA as an excuse this game?

In post 2079, mastina wrote:

In post 1722, Battle Mage wrote:your 'case' appears to be that i posted in some games and not others whilst on VLA.

It's more than that.
It's you making twelve posts in this game where you insist you're not reading the game and are using V/LA as an excuse to not make content during that time...while there is active proof across the site that your statements in this game were a lie, as well as proof in this game that your claim to have not been reading is also a lie.

I.e., that you made multiple posts insisting on V/LA as an excuse to not read and not make content...when there's proof that, given the chance to post 12 times, and given the things you displayed awareness of, that you were reading and could produce content during that time.

In post 1722, Battle Mage wrote:I had some time, just not enough time to actively keep up with the majority so I cherry-picked ones where I thought my contribution would be most needed in that window.

And yet, something ongoing-games-friendly from you where you said this, is not what you said. You didn't say "I'm V/LA over the weekend and this game just started so I don't have the time for this game right now", or something to that effect, where you mention that you have limited time on the weekend and that you can't spend that time on this game but it's fine because it just started.

You made multiple posts where you made a blanket "I'm V/LA, therefore, not able to make content"--multiple posts. One post was all you needed to make, but you made multiple posts affirming that V/LA. Multiple posts that take your previous-am-V/LA-on-weekends time. You felt the need to make twelve posts on the weekend emphasizing this V/LA, rather than just one and spending the time of those 11 posts elsewhere.

In post 2080, mastina wrote:

In post 1727, Battle Mage wrote:haha my scum meta is lurking, but i havent been lurking here, I spent the weekend with my daughter and then had work either side, plus more games than I normally have.

Yes and during that V/LA time you felt the need to make 12 contentless posts rather than just one, while displaying knowledge that you shouldn't have if you were genuinely not reading the game. And upon coming back, you produced a bunch of lame posts that, while technically content, were incredibly lackluster, lacking real substance/depth to them. And then with reads on less than half the playerlist, called it a night, on your first day back.

And only when you became the lead wagon did you pick up your activity.

In post 2081, mastina wrote:

In post 1731, Battle Mage wrote:there is definitely a problem with this site meta that posting lots of words, a la Mastina, is considered good, even if the underlying logic is fundamentally flawed

I've said this before and I will say it countless times more.

I will always be verbose, is part of my nature as someone with autism. I will say with 10 words what 2 words would perhaps still convey.

But I am never townread for the amount of words, nor am I sheeped because I make the words.
I am townread because of the content within the words and sheeped because it resonates.

The argument of "people sheep long posts that are bad" frequently comes from scum trying to out-maneuver me, and just as often this is pretty damn evident when they insist that my posts are bad/flawed...and yet when called out on it, either they refuse to explain, or their explanation is flawed, or they misrepresent my stance and rely on people not rereading my posts to realize that they were doing so.

Rare is the day that someone says my logic is fundamentally flawed, and then they accurately point out logical reasons that my logic is actually flawed--and when they actually do so, I will fully acknowledge them by owning up to having made a bad argument and listen to their point because of their genuinely good take.

But since the majority of the people who make the "mastina's logic is bad" argument are scum, they can't do that solid logical reason because of their alignment meaning they rely on flawed logic to 'counter' my logic, don't explain, or make a reasonable argument that relies on misrepping my posts and portraying them in a way that's easier to, so to speak, defeat.

It seems you're opting for a combination of flawed logic with a side of misrepping me as your method of attempting to counter my argument.

In post 1735, Battle Mage wrote:I'm sure she has noted that my activity was similar to here in the majority of my games, but it's inconvenient for her 'case'.

You did not make 12 posts declaring yourself V/LA over the weekend in your other games. That is a trait unique to this one.

In fact, TGP's Normal was not the only game you made content in at the time, but obviously TGP's is the only one which I can discuss due to it being the only one that ended. The relevant spot for this is currently on page 13 of this search, to be moved further back for people when you post more and to become unable to be viewed come Saturday.

If you were in six games, it is correct to say you did not post content in all of them.
But you didn't post at all in three of them if so. (I count two instances of you posting in the endgame of completed games, then a total of three games, two being this one and TGP's game.)
You did post here, making this game indeed unique among your ongoing games.

As the only game you were a living player in, that you posted in, but posted zero content during, but still posted a lot.

In post 2084, mastina wrote:

In post 1737, pichu wrote:oh really
i'll look into that BM

I did since I figured I'd be the only player who bothered to check.

Battle Mage has claimed that, at the time, he was an active player in 6 games, including this one and TGP's recently-ended Mini Normal.
This shouldn't be one of them, because it is listed as being in postgame. It cannot be one of the games he didn't post content in as a result.
This also shouldn't be one of them, because it is listed as being in postgame. It cannot be one of the games he didn't post content in as a result.

He didn't post content in this game, but posted 12 times here.

He posted content in TGP's now-completed Normal and one other game.

He didn't post in any other game, not even contentless.
It was a total of five games--two in postgame at the time he posted in them, a third being TGP's, and a fourth being this game.

So why the contentless posting in this game, rather than either not posting at all (what he claims is what he'd do on V/LA), or the content posting of the other two?

Why did he display a trait unique to this game?

In post 2085, mastina wrote:

In post 1740, Battle Mage wrote:my request to Pooky, and the town as a whole I guess, is to actually give me more than 2-3 real life days to do something useful and obvtowny, rather than elim me because I didnt have time to keep up with and post properly in the majority of my games over the weekend. I think that's a little opportunistic and slimey.

By the way.

On this note.

There is a lovely quote I want to give from a fairly obscure game that I feel does a good job of explaining why Battle Mage is scum here.

Subject: Mini 2096: I Don't Remember the Name of This Game

The Fonz wrote:

In post 899, Menalque wrote:I Also, I was legitimately just really busy IRL which is why my posting/catch ups were limited and I maintain that was a bad reason to scumread my slot.

Nah, that was the individual scumtell I talk about above, and an excellent reason to suspect you. Scum and town tend to play differently when they have little time. Town motivated players will often try to ensure they do as much as they can with their limited time: naked votes, claims, really important questions. People who have time to whine in thread about how unfair it is when they are busy irl are usually scum. They try to use limited access as an excuse to lurk. These players also tend to continue whining postgame and claim that they'd have done the exact same thing as town, but they keep flipping scum!

Contrast: I did a sixty hour work week over six days from about three rl days into this game.

Ever since I had the pleasure of playing with Fonz in that game, I have taken this to heart, and yes, it remains true to this day, and anecdotally I've noticed I follow it myself. (Where as scum when V/LA I use it as an excuse to not be around but as town when V/LA I still try to give

something

.)

This game Battle Mage insists that his twelve posts while V/LA that gave zero content were something he'd do as town--maybe he genuinely believes that he would do that as town.

But twelve posts essentially 'whining' that he's V/LA is something that is far, far more likely to just actually come from scum.

In post 2145, mastina wrote:

In post 1834, Double the Trouble wrote:Also mastina is very convincing tbh its quite unusual.

I've been quite convincing for the last two years or so!

And yet, people never cease to be surprised that I'm making reasonable and rational points in my cases.

In post 1846, Battle Mage wrote:this is my 3rd game with mastina this year. in all 3 games, she decided i was scum at the beginning and did little else other than tunnel me for the duration. In 1 game I was scum, in the other 2 town (incl. this one). I don't consider her read on me to be genuine, it's just what mastina does.

Just for the record.

Battle Mage is using the exact same style of discrediting me that Flavor Leaf uses.

I'd love to call that proof that BM is one of FL's chosen scum, but sadly, I am forced to admit that BM's style of discrediting me is almost assuredly uninfluenced by FL in that if BM were scum trying to discredit me in a different game lacking a scum-FL he'd be no different.

I do find it fascinating tho. That both BM and FL have the exact same style of trying to discredit me when they're scum. Is probably among the reasons FL picked Battle Mage, if I had to guess; FL sees BM as a scum player whose style resonates with his own.

In post 2160, mastina wrote:

In post 1865, Battle Mage wrote:i mean, i've never done it before as town

or scum

, so isn't that the definition of being NAI?

No.

When you claim to have done an action you've never done before as town or scum, there is, very likely, an alignment-indicative reason for having done it for the first time.

In the case of this game, the town reason to have done it is: ???
There's nothing I can think of as justification to have done it as town.

In the case of this game, the scum reason to have done it is, EITHER: you didn't, you lied and invented this as your excuse for the beetlegeus appearance, OR: you read the scum PT, were being kept up to date, and searched for your name to augment the information from the scum PT in making your appearance.

Both are fairly compelling reasons for you to have claimed to have done it, and both fit with your apparent knowledge of things you shouldn't have knowledge of.

In post 1865, Battle Mage wrote:I'm not going to re-tread old ground and respond to the Mastina stuff in detail.

AKA, you can't actually argue against them because they're true.

In post 1865, Battle Mage wrote:It's all a bit like this - superficial one-dimensional takes which don't show any evidence of balanced objective assessment.

I believe I've done a pretty damn good job in showing this is false, that my takes have plenty of evidence backing their assessment and that there is depth to them.

In post 2223, mastina wrote:

In post 2025, Battle Mage wrote:lol i wasnt reading (see: VLA) and thought i might be nearly getting elimmed as I had seen a few votes (presumably when using the search function). i'm not sure what's weird about it - it was just wrong.

Alternatively: the scum picked up and emphasized the multiple slots that stated BM suspicion regardless of their votes and BM took this to mean that he was under more pressure than he was, especially if the slots suspicious of him at the time were particularly strong talking points in the scum PT.

Why would Battle Mage think he was close to being eliminated otherwise? As he himself said--the votes showed that belief to be wrong so if he used the search function, it'd show that, at the time, he was under no real risk.

Far more likely is that he was informed by his scumbuddies that he was under threat, and thought it worse than it was off of listening to them.

In post 2034, Battle Mage wrote:All Mastina's other reads are based on a presumption of BM-scum, whereby she townreads those who attack me, and scumreads those who don't.

False, literally none of my reads are on the assumption of Battle Mage being scum. If anything it'd be the opposite; I'm ignoring evidence which may change my read on slots if I were to listen to it in relationship to BM.

In post 2045, Polar Bear Express wrote:BM sounds extremely sincere here.

He labelled the post AtE and for good reason--because it is an appeal to emotions that is his only defense given that he is otherwise pretty clearly scum.

In post 2261, mastina wrote:

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:A. Why on earth would BM-scum pretend not to be reading the game? Where's the motive?

Take your pick, any of these are options.
1: Allows you to get away with not faking content during a time you're genuinely V/LA--you don't want to put in the effort over the weekend as scum because reading is less effort than writing.
2: In the current meta, scum lurking and letting town eat itself up in TvTs is an incredibly strong scum strategy. FL is not above utilizing it as a, on a grander scale, scum strategy for winning the game, if he thinks he can successfully maintain the TvTs.
3: Allows you to create refined, stronger points when you come in and attack the areas you've had the time to observe are weakspots in the town's stances/arguments, while pretending that these arguments were made blindly.
4: Faking a stream of consciousness catchup when you're actually informed is rather easy to pull off. If you're more aware than you're pretending, then there can be towncred in taking stances that're informed from that extra reading.
5: You can write things out in advance in the scum PT, and then finish them inthread, to let your scumbuddies check the posts and let them give feedback on what you're intending to say.

Among other possible reasons.

Would it be all of these at the same time? Probably not! But this is an incomplete list of possible explanations. Suffice to say: there are some.

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:B. If I had actually read the game, why would I subsequently spend several hours trawling through and giving my thoughts on everything?

Ties into one of the above options. It takes far less time to read than it does to write. If you read in advance and pretend not to, then the writing takes less time and produces better content for the result. However, it does still take time. Less time than reading-while-responding, but still some time.

But you can't exactly not give thoughts at all and expect to live, can you? So you NEED to post content, even if it's on things that you read in advance.

Plus, your initial 'catchup' where you were sparse in quoting posts and mostly went 'page x, thoughts on page' looks like this exact approach, where you read in advance and didn't feel like putting in the extra effort to quote content from those pages, so you summarized them.

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:C. If I had read the game, why would I say something about possibly being close to E-1, when I was nowhere near?

This is fair since I did technically say "BM has read the thread or at least most of it" and it is in fact inaccurate to accuse you of having read all of the game. A more accurate stance would be "BM has read at least some of the thread when pretending he hasn't and is showing knowledge indicative that he's read more than he claims he has". Which is to say, you didn't read the whole thread, but read more than you claimed, so you wouldn't know you weren't near L-1.

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:2. Mastina alleges that BM lied about being on VLA to avoid posting in this game, whilst posting in other games, implying he is scum here and town elsewhere.

False. I allege that you are genuinely V/LA but your 12 non-content posts while on V/LA while making content-posts or no posts in other games, is indicative of being scum in this game who was doing more than he said he was, behind the scenes.

As the rest of your points are in relationship to a claim I never made, they are irrelevant.

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:Do you think, given we are now 80 pages into the game, there is anything else of merit for you to comment on?

Yes, and I continue to do so.

While the majority of my content is outlining why you are scum, my posts are not exclusively about your scumness; I have addressed reads on other slots. I should give a full indepth readslist with reasons, and it's among the things that I intend to do soon(TM).

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:You could give some thoughts on other players besides me - reads which don't simply lean on your false premise of me being scum.

I have reads on every player in the game and none of them rely on their read on you. Quite the opposite; reads that might be different if I were to look at their interactions with you (Noraa's bad defense of you, Creature's calling you scum), I am, explicitly,

ignoring

, in favor of my own read on them (Noraa's town anyway, Creature's a scum candidate anyway).

In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:Or you could give some thoughts on the things I've actually posted

I have and continue to do so--

The posts you make show TMI, are weak reasons on weaker slots aside from the TMI Double Trouble push, and largely underwhelming.

In post 2887, mastina wrote:

In post 2852, Creature wrote:I think she has been underwhelming this game and is also a potential pick.

This is not a genuine Creature stance,

least

of all on me.

If Creature's vote on me was a passive "meh might as well" vote or a vote to engage with me, I could plausibly, plausibly buy it as town (although it'd be doubtful). But Creature genuinely saying that I'm an actual scum candidate, especially for being 'underwhelming'?

Bullshit.

He literally noted my post count--that's a high fucking post count from me, especially since I have posted almost every single day the thread has been open and posted multiple times each time I came in to post, whereas scumastina tends to go the maximum length possible without getting prodded (and sometimes even then fails, picking up prods) and puts in only the number of posts necessary, nothing more.

And Creature knows this of me.

In post 3652, mastina wrote:

In post 3590, Double the Trouble wrote:Didn’t you townread Dunnstral earlier Mastina? Why the change?
- Norwee

Essentially? This:

In post 2880, mastina wrote:I realize I need to take stock of my reads and give minor reevaluation to them--given that the game has four scum in it and I have only three players in my scumreads right now, at least one player I am townreading, by necessity,

must

be scum; I'll try to get more into it later. Plan for today is to read content and explain reads as they were, then hopefully later go into the work of reevaluating and reassessing those reads to try and form that coherent scumteam.

In post 2890, mastina wrote:

In post 1705, mastina wrote:Dunnstral
Toogaloo
pichu
Double The Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse*

This was my last readslist post of D1 with the dead players removed, but as the day so RUDELY ended due to SOMEONE hammering before we were ready, I didn't get to post the

actual

final readslist, which would've moved Solstice up to the conftown tier and also been kinder to Spiffeh, producing this:

Solstice
Dunnstral
Toogaloo
pichu
Double The Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse*

This is, obviously, not possible given there's four scum and only three south of null, so yes, I do need to reevaluate. I won't be able to give a full reevaluation, but to go into the names:

Dunnstral was a top townread of mine because I thought that all of his content radiated an aura of townness. Even if his points weren't something I agreed with, I thought that they came from a town mindset and looked town overall. This is something I probably need to revisit in D2 with too many townreads and not enough scumreads for the setup. My first thought is, this is probably still Dunnstral as town, because overall his play here is a match to what I'd expect from Dunn as town more than scum, but I should also do some meta double-checking on this front. (It'll, unfortunately, be largely secondhand meta where I'd be reading games I didn't play in, so not as reliable, but may still help me on this assessment.)

So, tentative starting point for D2 in a loose readslist:

Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Bell, Ircher (reevaluation needed, this spot probably has 1-2 scum in it)

In post 2893, mastina wrote:

In post 2890, mastina wrote:Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Bell, Ircher (reevaluation needed, this spot probably has 1-2 scum in it)

For the record:
I can say that the Bell of this game very much looks identical to the Bell of MBOS10, but I admit lack of familiarity with the nuances of him as a player to be able to tell if he is definitively town here.
Spiffeh I feel has been getting townier over the course of the game, but with at minimum one scum absent from my readslist, that healthy paranoia I have on him needs to be addressed because there's a rather significant risk that he is the scumteam's deepwolf. (Plus, on an unrelated note, going into the wifom-hole, if FL's claim of his first draft being the first four names on the playerlist was in any way remotely close to the truth, if Creature is scum, it lends some credence to the idea that Spiffeh could also be scum, with FL having been unable to draft all four due to the other two being picked as town, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I feel that going down this rabbit hole is a mistake so I basically am writing this off as possible, but not probable.) Overall I'd still rate him as town, but if we have three scum flipped and can't find the fourth after multiple town deaths, it's worth revisiting on him. He's certainly not a priority-sort today imo so even if it's possible he's scum, I kinda want to townbin him anyway for now, to revisit it down the road if needed.

Ircher I feel is probably town here. I admit lack of familiarity with him, and I realize that I do need to acknowledge he does have several bad takes and that effort does not equal town and that his style of posting does have a lot of information in it with the analysis comparatively lackluster, all things that make it possible he's scum, but I also feel that Ircher was not following an FL script, that Ircher's stances and refusal to play ball with Pooky came from an inherently town point of view and that the indignance behind it did radiate a type of townness I don't think Ircher, even with FL, could fake.

So in terms of the names up here with 1-2 scum in them, I'd rate their townness as:

Ircher > Spiffeh (this and above means "not interested in really sorting today") >>>>>> Bell

>

Dunnstral = Toogaloo (Bell either equal or higher than Toog/Dunn, not quite sure which).

In post 3241, mastina wrote:

In post 2991, Double the Trouble wrote:

In post 2989, Flavor Leaf wrote:DUN Dun dun dun dun dun Dun dun, DUN Dun dun dun dun Dun dun dun.

GUYS THIS MEANS THAT THE SCUM IS DUNNSTRAL
LETS GO GET HIM BOYZ

If MURDERCAT is in fact town?

Actually quite likely! Creature + Bell + Dunn + DEB would be an incredibly likely combo, with the other one being Creature + Bell + Toog + DEB (or Creature + Bell + Spiffeh + DEB but as mentioned I wanna table Spiffeh-scum thoughts until three scum are dead, ideally).

Although I remain unconvinced that MURDERCAT is town.

Basically, Dunnstral isn't so much a scumread as he is a poe pool possible-scumread. He was a townread, but I do need to, carefully, constantly, neverendingly, reassess and reevaluate this stance on him and keep a close eye on his contributions to see what that content is saying towards his alignment. He's still plausibly town, with a narrative that could be town, but I see the case for him being scum off of his Bell defense. He's not lockscum from it, but I need to keep my eye on him.

In post 3576, pichu wrote:is creature just always like this in his games now? i actually can't tell if the negativity and pessimism is faked or if this is just Creature

It's faked.

I've played with Creature even post-degradation from his play.

This is it as scum.

In post 4308, mastina wrote:

In post 3827, Dunnstral wrote:Coincidentally went to iso Toogeloo and they said the same thing, seems towny

Problem with this viewpoint, Dunn.

So you have Creature as scum--this is fine.

You are saying Bell is town--not inherently a crime.

You obviously know/'know' yourself to be town/'town'.

You're thinking that Toog's stance is townie.

Okay, then.

Where's the rest of the scum?

Creature being scum isn't enough; there'd be three others, and you're townreading two of the by far most likely scum candidates.

Where's the other three scum if you are town and think Bell is town and think Toog is townie?

In post 4398, mastina wrote:

In post 3958, Creature wrote:Thinking it's Toog and mastina

In post 3959, Creature wrote:pichu potential powerwolf

In post 3960, Creature wrote:I don't understand the townreads on Dunn?

Seriously--why are people townreading this?

Especially people who have played with Creature before, who have familiarity with him.

Why are you townreading this?

Because this level of emptiness and with these sorts of takes is not Creature's town meta.

Do you want me to actually link you town-Creature games and scum-Creature games for comparison? (Admittedly the most recent ones would be largely secondhand meta where I wouldn't be able to really give indepth laser-point-accuracy takes, but just in general, this is so obviously not Creature as town that I am overwhelmingly confident I've no need to be so laser-point-accurate, that just pointing in the general direction will be enough for the hammer to blow the point in.)

In post 4409, mastina wrote:

In post 3986, Double the Trouble wrote:What reads do you have if Creature is town?

IF Creature were town (he's not), then I'd lockscum

both

Bell and DEB and then look heavily into Toogeloo and MURDERCAT in particular, with a possible side of Dunnstral.

The same goes for IF Bell's town (he's not); I'd lockscum Creature and DEB while looking heavily into Toogeloo and MURDERCAT (albeit less Dunnstral in this one).

I genuinely feel like there is a POE pool of six that, very likely, contains all four scum, with a very high chance:

{Dunnstral, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT, Dr Easy Bake, Bell, Creature}.

Individually, Dunnstral looks the towniest of them.

Individually, Creature looks the scummiest of them.
Individually, Bell looks the second-scummiest of them.
Individually, DEB is DEB and someone that FL could always count on as scum due to DEB and FL being intimately familiar with one another so DEB as town represents a threat to FL whereas DEB as scum is his greatest asset and off of DEB's contributions so far it looks a lot more like he's FL's asset than he is a threat to FL so I think there's a high chance he's scum.

Individually, MURDERCAT's reads and stances the whole game have looked like scum to me and there's literally only one scenario that would make me think otherwise. He's a lower-priority sort for me, however, specifically because given more time, that one scenario will either become debunked or confirmed. If it is debunked, then he's a high priority for being eliminated as an incredibly likely scum candidate; if it is confirmed, then he is someone we'll never eliminate due to him being town. I personally feel that the one scenario for him being town isn't the most likely, but time will tell there.

Individually, Toogeloo's highly null. He's not someone I'm scumreading, but overall, his stances and takes are no longer resonating with me as being town. He's not a high-priority sort because there's four names that I feel are more likely scum than him, with one of them being a low-priority sort, but if MURDERCAT's one scenario of being town is true, then Toogeloo is very highly likely to be scum.

Individually, I do loosely feel like Dunnstral is town, weakly so here, but that is the read that this day phase has been most in flux, and if too many of the names above are town, then by necessity he would need to be scum. But I do genuinely feel that the only way he is scum is if literally two of the above names flip town--which makes him a lower-priority sort, as we should flip names above him before considering eliminating him.

One name flipping town from the above doesn't change this solve.
Two names flipping town from the above still doesn't change the solve.
It'd literally take three of the above names being definitively town for me to consider a different solve right now because I am that confident that these six names contain the solve, pretty conclusively so.

In post 4546, mastina wrote:So I read Double the Trouble's opening post--MURDERCAT being a mason I figured out yesterday because Pooky put Polar Bear Express into the vig pool, something that felt like it had to come from MURDERCAT and combined that with Pooky never putting MURDERCAT in either the D1 pool or the D2 pool. So not surprised at that. Am a little surprised at Creature, but I suppose that's one of the best players to be a mason since it, inherently, requires a fundamental reevaluation.

Putting out a tentative:
VOTE: Toogeloo, would also vote DEB here.

The only way my readslist from yesterday isn't obsolete is if the scumteam happens to exactly be {Toogeloo, Dr Easy Bake, Dunnstral}; in all other scenarios, once more do need to reevaluate things.

That having been said, while I read that daystart post, I want to finish addressing things from yesterday I didn't get the chance to talk about. (I was on page 174.)
So will be going back to there and addressing some unfinished business stuff.

In post 4699, mastina wrote:

In post 0, Blade Dancer wrote:

Alive Players:

[/color]
Spiffeh
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary)
Ydrasse
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet)
Toogeloo
Dr Easy Bake
Dunnstral
Ircher

With the masons alive, this is the players left to sort.

There's three scum left, so it is appropriate to reevaluate townreads, but...

I really really really want to sheep pichu in his faith in Ydrasse and Polar Bear Express. As I seem to recall, those two slots were among his top townreads and I really really want to trust him on them. So I really want to have faith that pichu was correct, and write them off as town.

Ircher I have felt has been pretty town the entire game long. His handling of everything, as well as his stances, have felt like they came from town. He's been reasonable, rational, and overall felt like he was coming from a town mindset and not playing to FL's gameplan. While I realize that there could be deepscum, I just don't think it's him.

Solstice actually looks far better overall to me today in my opinion. I've really loved Morning Tweet's contributions and feel that MT's assessment of the claims yesterday was highly highly town. Misty's lowered presence is a bit concerning, but she's looked town while around and overall the slot has been acting in a way that I don't think scum act in this game.

Which leaves:
Spiffeh
Toogeloo
Dr Easy Bake
Dunnstral

4 names for 3 scum.

I think there's no world in which Toogeloo is town--he is pretty much lockscum here.

Dunnstral could be town or scum here, but his status is pretty much dependent on the other two, which bring to mind the following questions:

Do the scum have a deepscum player who was fairly active?

If the answer to this is yes, then Spiffeh is scum, because he's the only player among the four to meet that criteria. He's been active and reasonably town, but very easily could be scum. But there's quite possibly the chance of 'no'--in which case, all of the scum were in the lurkers and Spiffeh is town. If Spiffeh is town, then Dunnstral is scum and DEB is scum, but if he's scum, then one of them is town.

I personally would feel guilty eliminating Spiffeh today regardless of his alignment. If he's scum I kinda want to pay him the respect of leaving him until there's three scum dead. And if he is town, I feel I owe that to him to help give him the time to prove that he is town by helping the town eliminate scum. But this is one of the main questions I need to figure out an answer for; if Spiffeh is the scum's deepscum, or if the scum didn't have any deepscum.

Did the scum plan a double-detective claim?

If the answer to this is yes, then Dr Easy Bake is scum. But there is at least the chance that this is a 'no'--in which case, if he is town, then Spiffeh and Dunnstral are both scum. I can see the case either way here, but since DEB is claiming he has a spicy result, he might be town here.

It should be noted; for Dunnstral to be town, it requires the scum to have an active deepscum (Spiffeh)

and

for scum to have planned a double-detective claim (DEB).

At daystart, I was thinking Toogeloo-DEB-Dunn with a chance of Spiffeh, but while my thoughts are still not fully formed yet, I can't really properly form full thoughts right now (I took a nap while I was waiting to wake up in the hopes that it would kickstart my brain but my brain is still in 'waking up' mode right now so I'm not fully firing on all cylinders), but right now I actually lean towards Spiffeh-Dunnstral-Toogeloo.

I do feel the need to reiterate; no matter what, I think Toogeloo is scum here. I don't think that the scumteam is ever Spiffeh-Dunnstral-DEB here.
Which is why I feel like my vote there is the best overall.

I also think that, while Dunnstral has done a fair amount to look town, there is a certain level of resonance in him being scum--I can explain my scumread on Toogeloo quite well, but on Dunnstral while the thoughts don't form as easily it just resonates on a gut level as being overall something that I see.

Similarly, DEB being town is something I've no evidence for, just gut. I am still concerned about the possibility that he's scum with the whole stunt being a double-fakeclaim, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if we do eliminate two scum, then DEB will produce innocents--if he is a real detective, FL will literally be forced to kill him or else risk generating hard-clears. If he isn't a real detective, that'll become more obvious with time. So he shouldn't be the elimination yet, maybe ever.

Spiffeh is someone who I can't really sort as town or scum conclusively right now, but if my assumptions on who are town is correct, then he'd by necessity be the third scum.

So overall, right now my preferred elimination order would be: Toogeloo > Dunnstral > Spiffeh > Dr Easy Bake.