Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Trust Fund]

Oh and I mentioned me doing gambits and shit as town.

Here's me faking a cop innocent on ffery/syr hydra as a VT:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5168011

Here's me fakeclaiming survivor as vanilla town to get scum to claim scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5206602

(I'm MC maraca in both cases)

[Trust Fund]

Yay dumping meta all over antihero. Nb4 he reads none of it.

[Varsoon]

Hey-hey, you're not VT this game, though!

And, pfft, that might be the case. I've been warming up to more use of meta since I've been on the site longer, but I still think people are capable of anything, regardless of how they've played in the past. A good player will use it to his advantage, I figure, regardless of alignment.

[Trust Fund]

I thought you get back a VT result if a player has used their power, though, according to your claim?

[Trust Fund]

So you got a VT result on antihero, right?

[Trust Fund]

Or what exactly did your result say?

[Trust Fund]

Same question for what your result on me said and what it said on nacho.

Does your role card specify the treatment of mafia goons vs VT?

[Varsoon]

Never claimed that, merely speculated that one of the reasons I might've gotten VT on Anti is due to the nature of him 'losing' his power after two town-shots, rather than it being a typical X-shot power. Other reasons could be that I was redirected, Anti was vanilla-ized, etc.

My power works as follows:
I select a player.
I PM Bork to let him know which player I selected.
If my action was a success (wasn't roleblocked, etc), then Bork PMs me back telling me if the player is either 'Vanilla' or 'Non-Vanilla'. If it's not a success, I imagine I get a no-result.
The role PM defines 'Vanilla' as having no abilities outside of factional ones.
I also can't use this ability on consecutive nights. (embarrassingly enough, I didn't realize/notice this until D2.)

When I investigated Antihero on N5, I got 'Vanilla' as my result.

Goons and VT are treated the same, which was why my Vanilla result on Nacho didn't clear his alignment.

[Varsoon]

For flavor, my ability is called 'Veteran Appraisal', which fits, seeing as Jesiah was an old special ops vet.

[Trust Fund]

So how did you come to your "cabd had a one shot recruit theory" when your role returned vanilla back on the now confirmed town cop that had an X-shot role and lost it?

After all, your role results supposedly gave you a not vanilla result on me. I claimed my role usage D2. So from your POV, since you hit me night three, I MUST have told a lie about the using my shot thing. But your theory about cabd-scum with this recruit ability totally ignores that.

You know why? Because you're not a vanilla cop. You're a scum rolecop that couldn't keep your story straight.

[Trust Fund]

It'd make sense if it was a one-shot, TF.

^^^Like right here you pushed a "Cabd is a oneshot recruiter" theory but you supposedly know I was not vanilla on night three.

[Trust Fund]

Or in other words:

Gotcha, scumfuck.

You can kuribo-ize all the avatar images you want, doesn't change the fact that you just slipped about your supposed role results.

[Varsoon]

So you got a VT result on antihero, right?

so, in response to this, I actually did not get a 'VT' result (my earlier post says VT, guess I wrote this since you phrased it that way).
I got a 'Vanilla' result.


P-EDIT:
Every scum PR so far has had an ability coupled with a one-shot. So, even in the situation where my result gives me Vanilla on players who have used up all of their shots, it'd still makes sense that I'd get Non-Vanilla on you.
We went over this earlier today.

Wiggle, wiggle~

[Trust Fund]

So then what supposed role do I have along with this magical one-shot recruitment?

[Varsoon]

TF, I think you're scum. I've thought you were scum for awhile now. Every scum so far that's been a PR has had a one-shot ability, so your PR as you've described it even matches suit. What's scummiest about you, though, is that you convinced town to roll with a plan that'd lynch down a list of townies, while keeping 'confirmed' town alive. In reality, you were hoping to get to lylo in exactly this sort of situation, with one 'unconfirmed' townie that you could put a lot of pressure on and one 'confirmed' townie that you've been appealing to for the last few days.

The fact that your plan called for a lynch on you up until this point was probably why no one was quick to call you on it, but now that you're in Lylo, suddenly the lynch process switches to the one other guy who isn't you?

You're squirming, and it was noticeable as we were in Twilight on the last day, because you started to shift a good bit, scrambling up ways to put me on the chopping block. You were even really thrown off when Nacho was lynched so fast, mostly because you wanted to use more of that day to set up for the lylo that you knew you'd be in.

I don't have to make a case for myself as town, because I'm town. All I need to do is further push my case on you, which I've been sitting on for the whole of this game. If Anti is scum, I'm damned, but I don't think that's the case. In fact, I know how calculating you are, Cabd. I'm willing to bet that you purposefully made sure Anti and I were in LyLo together because you know I have my doubts about his slot. It's the perfect setup to lead a mislynch.

I've said my piece. TF's scum, and the lynch-down-the-list was a clever strategy to win as the last scum alive.
My vote is cast. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, town.
VOTE: TF

Juuust gonna reiterate this, which is what I opened the day on.
TF, if you're gonna 'expose' me for something in hopes of garnered a quick hammer, at least think about it for a bit first.

P-EDIT:
I don't know, you guys are the masters of setup speculation. Furthermore, I never said that your one-shot ability was definitely a recruitment, but that it could be. As far as roles and PRs go, you could be fucking anything. In that regard, you could even be vanilla and my result could have been manipulated when I targeted you. I have no way of knowing. Basing a case on PR speculation/uncomfirmable claims isn't really useful. That's why I tend to be skeptical of anyone who uses a PR-claim to try to gain leverage over other players. Scum can do it just as easily as town.

[Antihero]

If you got a vanilla on me, you really should have gotten a vanilla on TF too.

Neither of you seemed to make anything of it at the time, though (OK, maybe TF did, kind of, but .. yeah).

[Antihero]

I don't know, you guys are the masters of setup speculation. Furthermore, I never said that your one-shot ability was definitely a recruitment, but that it could be. As far as roles and PRs go, you could be fucking anything. In that regard, you could even be vanilla and my result

could have been manipulated

when I targeted you. I have no way of knowing. Basing a case on PR speculation/uncomfirmable claims isn't really useful. That's why I tend to be skeptical of anyone who uses a PR-claim to try to gain leverage over other players. Scum can do it just as easily as town.

The only person who could have done this got lynched Day 3, don't go there.

[Trust Fund]

"looked to set you up in twilight?" No shit varsoon, as soon as nacho claimed town post hammer, it had to be you. He doesn't fuck around with that sort of thing just to troll. Your hammer post, if anything, was a setup for an easy vote on me today.

If there's two scum left and Nacho's town, then we probably lose tonight.

VOTE: Nacho

TF, I'm going to trust you on this, but if Nacho flips town and

you live through the night

, you better not try to wriggle out of this.

No "hey nacho your reads" or anything, just a straight up "Oh well i'm voting you tomorrow" not to mention the bold is total scum theater given that there was an innocent child left alive that day.

[Trust Fund]

OK, maybe TF did, kind of, but .. yeah).

I did, but it wasn't an issue at the time because the plan called for both him and me to be dead before the game's end. That was before TDgate

[Trust Fund]

"Stating your role results takes seconds, fixing your fakeclaim's mistakes takes an eternity" ~DGB's quote fixed

[Trust Fund]

If you got a vanilla on me, you really should have gotten a vanilla on TF too.

He forgot he had called me not vanilla after I used my shot. Not really that surprising that he'd then call you vanilla.

[Varsoon]

Problems with your current course of action:

1. It relies on the idea that X-shot PRs and Anti's PR work the same way in regards to my investigate.
2. It doesn't cover the fact that you could be lying about your PR.
3. It doesn't cover the fact that my results could have been manipulated on any night, since my ability is fairly telegraphed from claim-forward.
4. It posits that I am a scum rolecop, which still doesn't explain how hypothetical scum-varsoon got results on players and delivered night kills if he was the only scum left since D5.
5. It misrepresents me as lying about my result on you, despite the fact that I've already explained how my result makes sense in regards to point 1, 2, and 3

P-EDIT:
It had to be me? I've already covered why you left Anti and I alive. You could've left TF alive for an even stronger 'conftownie'/person-beyond-the-lynch-threshhold to get onto my wagon, but that's be too risky, wouldn't it?
You're the one who pushed me to hammer Nacho in MyLo despite the fact I felt he was town and you were scum. Then when I play into your hand and hammer him out of paranoia and 'sticking to the plan', you turn it on me?

@Anti: TF's already claimed a role that makes people vanilla (of course with claimed town utility only). Hypothetically, yeah, you could've been made vanilla and that'd explain my result on you. It'd also be a damn powerful scum play to make if they were planning on taking me to Lylo with them, so that they could expose that and hope to get a PR-related lynch levied on me.

[Trust Fund]

You're the one who pushed me to hammer Nacho in MyLo despite the fact I felt he was town and you were scum.

Show me where I forced you.

[Trust Fund]

1. It relies on the idea that X-shot PRs and Anti's PR work the same way in regards to my investigate.

We already talked about this, he and I, in the thread on a prior day and confirmed our wording is similar.

2. It doesn't cover the fact that you could be lying about your PR.

My role PM says otherwise. Still waiting for you to tell me what hypothetical PR I have if you're a town vanilla cop.

3. It doesn't cover the fact that my results could have been manipulated on any night, since my ability is fairly telegraphed from claim-forward.

Rach died day one and was never able to use her PR, unless bork randomly threw in only one day ability. Mala dided day three so you weren't redirected unless you're now trying to say that I'm somehow ALSO a redirector. Try again.

4. It posits that I am a scum rolecop, which still doesn't explain how hypothetical scum-varsoon got results on players and delivered night kills if he was the only scum left since D5.

Bork, do you allow the last living scum in a team to use their night role in addition to the facitoal kill?

(If he won't answer I'll dig it up from xenoblade)

5. It misrepresents me as lying about my result on you, despite the fact that I've already explained how my result makes sense in regards to point 1, 2, and 3

Yeah well my town PM and antihero's lack of hammer says otherwise. So you kinda have to be.

[Varsoon]

Basically, we can both point fingers and say the other is lying for the next 11 days. I don't want to do that. We've already argued everything to death so much so that we're going in circles.
I've given my results faithfully to town every time I got them. I've always told the truth about my PR and results, even when I knew it could damn my slot
TF, you've admitted to lying about your PR, and allowed misinformation about it to spread.
I've already made my case for you being scum, I've dismantled your play, criticized your multi-faceted attempts to represent me as scum, and held my own.
You've been wiggling all of Lylo, scrounging up reasons for me being scum. Where were these reasons before? Why haven't you been pushing a case on me? Why am I suddenly oh-so-obvious scum now that we're in Lylo? I've already shot down every artificial case and appeal you've made in the last day, and I'm tired of it. Keep scrounging, but I'm firmly standing here.
I'm town.
You're scum.