In post 892, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I do think Tweetie is more on the hedgy side but she's one of those players that becomes more readable the later into a game it gets because she has absolutely terrible endurance as scum so it's p obvious later if she's a baddie.
She's absolutely a monster if she replaces into a game that has flips to work with because she's relentless but I can see her getting confused in a large theme that moves along fairly quickly. She hasn't done anything that makes me think she's town but I tend to give her a longer leash than most because like if she's town then she will be pretty useful later and if she's bad she'll be like obviously bad.
Here because it’s an early defence of MT!scum that probably wasn’t strictly necessary. Could just be him being wrong, but wanted to note.
Start of the VPB push
Not really clear why pooky scumreads VPB, but that’s not super important, the more important thing is charting his progression here
Giving MT some softball questions to help her get into the game?
In post 1194, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 1121, VP Baltar wrote: In post 1117, Cephrir wrote:"you can't townread cephrir for being the only one to think about this because i did too. but i didn't really since it was a half baked idea"
plz tell me what is wrong with my characterization or what the town motivation is
Lol, Greeting can certainly townread you for it. Just wasn't your idea. Credit where it's due.
Maybe you came to the conclusion independently, idk. Just saying you definitely weren't the first person to bring it up. I think greeting is more town than you, so I'd prefer they have all the information when making their decision on reads. That's my motivation.
This is a perspective slip because of what's unsaid here.
from VPB!town's POV - he should be townreading cephrir for having the same thought process as he does - unless he wants to claim that Cephrir is just plagiarizing him 800 posts later or w/e but that's clearly not his intent as he didn't even state things in the way Cephrir did.
Instead he seems peeved that Cephrir is getting town-read for a post that he already made - the goal isn't actually because he thinks Cephrir is scum - he just wants his own town cred for "saying something similar" which is kind of ????
Like this game isn't about seeing who can score the most town!points for statements about game state - this game is about sorting between bad guys and good guys. VP's entire conversation with Cephrir isn't about sorting Cephrir - it's about saying oh it's unfair Ceph is getting credit for something that I already said sort of kind of - which is not a town mindset.
Okay, this is an important one. These are all really fair points on VPB being scum, especially now that VPB has uh, actually flipped scum. This is the sort of thing you would expect to be brought up again, right? Well
In post 1195, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I'm gonna check something cuz I pretty much never remember VPB!town making a readlist on day one.
do you have an example of a completed town game I can check this against dude?
Instead, focus is more on something I think is a pretty weak reason to suspect someone. Idk, maybe this is why pooky is better at catching scum than me normally, but someone doing/not doing a readslist D1 seems like the kinda thing that could be for ~whatever~ reason and is a lot less convincing than hammering the perspective slip thing
More of the same
Another very personal, fairly weak, and unlikely to be convincing to anyone else reason for why VPB is scum
These two are actually a point against pooky!scum, I think – I would have expected him to want one scum in both expert teams? Whereas this would have been super, super town-stacked if it had gone through
In post 2761, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I have no issues with letting VPB defuse every bomb if these scumfucks keep putting him up to defuse bombs
HEAL: vpb
Okay, this is the first weird bit where he’s completely forgotten about the perspective slip/VPB being scum and pooky is advocating for VPB to keep being a defuser
In post 2776, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 2769, Cephrir wrote:Between her and Andres it seems obvious they are switching in widely suspected players on purpose but I don't understand what the goal is
I think if they pick a widely suspected town player for the defuser - we can just blow that person up and POE narrows for them and they don't really get anywhere.
If they pick themselves for defuser - they run a risk of blowing themselves up.
So the least bad move they have is to target the same townread player - make the bombs stack up on them hoping we break, while using the swap to target people that are suspected in order to set up future mislims
This, in hindsight, looks bad to me – it’s a roundabout way of arguing that VPB should keep defusing. The subtext is that we shouldn’t break i.e. detonate someone/lim them so long as the defuser is townread – and who’s the defuser who’s been subbed in twice? That’s right, our flipped scum, VPB. And who is pooky now pushing as being towny despite never really having addressed why his read changed despite “others in the PT thought that we shouldn’t kill him and I was worried I’d die next if I unilaterally took him out”. Because that’s a reason to not blow him up sure – but it’s not a reason to come round to him being town and to forget the reasons he was scum to you in the first place
This and another post seem to be griping about the setup being unfair for scum, which I think is the sort of thing that’s slightly more likely to come from scum in the abstract, and combined with the other reasons for pooky being scum is quite telling overall
Pooky immediately hops on the mala wagon, despite not having any real interest in her prior to this. In fairness, I can see town!pooky doing this too, but it would have been important for scum pooky who was probably already thinking about endgame to make sure he got on the bus for the cred
In post 2934, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:we shouldn't lim VPB because scum are going to try to blow him up anyway(if they don't try to blow him up thats basically a scumclaim)
no point doing their dirty work for them make him eat a bullet for someone else.
In post 2936, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like game this out
if our policy is to blow up VPB if he gets a bomb
then scum will always make VPB the defuser if VPB is town
so when that happens booom time
and voila we solve the VPB issue without losing a lim
there's literally no point to divert and get paranoid of VPB atp - we're just playing into the scum wifom.
The above two go together, I think. So the reason to not have VPB limmed is because he needs to made defuser, right? Because if he’s town, scum will make him defuser and we can kill him that way. And if scum won’t make him defuser, it’s a scumclaim and we can lim him. Great!
So why is pooky voting for him to be an expert at this point? You know, one of the things that prevents him being made defuser, which is apparently how pooky wants to sovle the slot despite still never having actually explained what changed for him on why VPB was scum to town.
This one is weird
We would have lost the game if we’d done this
In post 2945, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:or if we policy blow him up at 4th defusal, we have 0 chance of losing
if VPB is town, we reset to 0 defusals for scum and we get three more defusals with no worries.
if VPB is scum, we just policy bomb everyone and dare the scumbags to try to win
Still advocating for VPB to keep defusing despite it not being clear what makes VPB town
to pookyp
other than having been picked as defuser twice
Okay, this is the other important thing from pooky’s ISO imo, his dwlee read
In post 2965, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 2963, Andante wrote:I was super confident in my strange read, but the way strange said what they said, I kinda doubt that read I had. Dwlee/Pooky interactions feel odd but idk what I think about it, and uhh yeah! Mala ISO is just.. lol nope it's just prodging tbh
dwlee just trying to make me look bad when they inevitably flip scum
So there’s a lot of him talking about how dwlee is scum
A loooooot
Wanted to note this one because there is a max of 2 scum in here and I think quite likely only 1. Think that’s worth noting because pooky is happy to call out his accuracy as being super high normally. And it’s also worth noting that pooky really hard transitions on titus later, and his enchant read is never really substantiated either
In post 2984, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 2975, Andante wrote:Pooky, why did you agree to save VP? after saying how he was for sure scum D1?
well everyone else thought he was town and I didn't want to get blamed if he blew up and was town cuz then i'm dead next
also he yelled at me and I'm susceptible to AtE >.>
Mostly I don't think VPB has the guts to put himself into a bomb squad when I'm swearing up and down that I want to murder him and he knows I almost never change my mind because I'm stubborn as hell and tend to death-tunnel - I think it's more likely that scum set him up to make me want to blow him up and then I get elimmed on the day after for blowing him up.
Okay, this is as much of an explanation as we get for pooky shifting on VPB. And it’s, I guess, sort of plausible? But that’s not saying a huge amount for me, because
of course
it’s sort of plausible, because pooky is a good player and knows how to work a narrative. But why doesn’t this get brought up any earlier – why has all the other stuff about not killing VPB been to do with him being picked to be defuser by scum instead of actually arguing for why VPB is town based on his actions?
Mala scum who pooky is very confident on now despite not being a concern for nearly all the game. This is p weaksauce tho, it just caught my eye as I was going through
In post 3054, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:it literally makes 0 sense to execute VPB.
if we execute VPB!Town, we basically lost a lim for nothing.
if we are playing in the VPB!scum world, then scum are going for some weird af wifom game where they are trying to win via VPB defusals.
in which case they will put up VPB to defuse the bomb.
in which case we can just blow him up and we keep our lim and scum waste a night.
More defending VPB. But why does pooky want VPB blown up if he thinks he’s town? And why, if he thinks blowing him up is the right move, was he talking earlier about how maybe we should let VPB get 3 or possibly 4 defusals? It makes no fucking sense
More advocacy of why VPB is not a good lim. This will also be important later
In post 3057, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:in other words blowing up VPB is preferable to limming VPB regardless of VPB alignment
and if scum are trying to win via vpb defusing shit, they have to put up VPB as defuser again.
scum want us to twist ourselves into a pretzel overthinking this paranoia bullshit
Wow, it sure seems convenient to me that we should just let VPB continue to live until he gets made defuser again!
In post 3061, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
if we are in the world where scum are trying to win via defusals
THEN
I'm assuming scum don't have any1 more townread than VPB because if they did
they would use that person to defuse bombs instead of stacking up on VPB.
imo we're just being led towards paranoia because if scum don't crack townblock with paranoia they get POE'd out
Well, no, not necessarily. Let’s think about this – it’s always kind of a risk to try and win on defuses because you might always have a catboi/frog situation. So putting your towniest member in to try and defuse might pay off, but frankly nobody was towny enough to do all 4 probably. Plus
by virtue
of being chosen, that person is probably gonna look more and more suspicious. So I think it would make a lot of sense to, say, have someone who knows they may well go down do as many defusals as they can get away with, while saving your towniest player to try and win conventionally
In post 3165, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3164, Dwlee99 wrote:Broke: Koba playing a million games with me: Dwlee is impossible to read deep wolf don Corleone
Woke: Andante playing with me a few games and I'm easy to read
Dwlee flexing their deepwolf muscles on us
In post 3168, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:ngl 35% of why I think vpbaltar is town is because I think if dwlee was scum with vpb they would've tried to bus VPB for the cred so they could get the last 2 defusals needed yes I have cool thoughts because I am a cool bear.
So pooky is still thinking VPB is town at this point apparently, and he’s still very much thinking that dwlee is scum
here
and here
and here too
and some more pushing dwlee here as well
uh yeah, not sure why this one is here now I’m reading through
In post 3408, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3396, Bell wrote:
They're voting exclusively town with brain dead vote parks and about as much flexibility as an iceberg.
and like what even is this complaint
d1 i voted vpb
i changed my mind on him in the bomb PT (so much for no flexibility)
d2 i voted for frogster because dude needed to die
d3 i voted for mala because she basically was lolcatting and not even playing the game.
she turned up and started posting after hammer already landed
what exactly are you even blaming me for
but like… the changing of the mind isn’t really what was said. It’s duelling explanations being provided – sometimes he changed his mind because he really thought that VPB wouldn’t put himself in that position, sometimes it’s because he was worried that if he was wrong then he’d be blown up
@CSF, go look at pooky’s iso in the n1 bomb pt. you can confirm for everyone else that only at one point does he allude to actually reconsidering VPB as town, and even then it’s not for the reason he’s talked about elsewhere (that VPB would have to have huge balls to make himself defuser when pooky was in the expert group) although I’ll grant that it’s similar. It’s because he says that he thinks baltar trying to case him in the PT while he has power of life and death over him is towny
Back on that dwlee!scum hype
And again
In post 3437, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Definitely Town:
Bell
VPB
Andy
Greeting
Cephrir (if I am wrong about anyone in this tier its Ceph but I don't think I'm wrong)
Probably Town:
Mena
CSF
Andres
Null:
GuiltyLion
MistyX
Titus
StrangeMatter
Scum:
Dwlee
Enchant
Dwlee and enchant are at the bottom of the scumpile. Sooooo why is he not really advocating for either of their deaths? Also, titus has moved up from scum to null, along with misty and strangematter, from back in 2974. Why? Let’s look at their posts inbetween
[INSERT POSTS]
Okay, so what caused the shift here?
More yelling about dwlee scum. This seems like a very strong read!
In post 3443, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:DWLEE IS TRYING TO SPIN SOME WEIRD BULLSHIT SCENARIO THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN A MILLION YEARS TO EXCUSE BLOWING ME UP DO NOT BELIEVE THEM KILL THEM TOMMORROW IMMEDIATELY
And again
In post 3454, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:They're going to have all sorts of bullshit excuses why it's fine:
"We can never trust pooky"
"He was just a VT"
"I would be sneaky about it if I was scum"
"There's no way I would openly plot to blow up Pooky and then actually do it"
This is classic refuge in audacity and every word is designed to make you think they won't do it, in fact the more brazen it is the more likely it is they get away with this shit.
Pooky super super convinced on dwlee being scum! VPB is a top townread according to his own recent post!
In post 3683, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:dwlee can you walk me through why you told scum to make me defuser so you could blow me up?
also did you think the group you were in was all town prior to today?
Uh, not sure of the context here given that pooky has never been defuser
In post 3685, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:think scum walked into that bomb session with the plan of blowing up Andres - when bomb expert is mafia its basically a strongman kill so this was planned out ahead of time.
I do think Dwlee made a good point that it doesn't make sense for them to bus Mala for cred and then openwolf a bomb explosion because now they can never endgame - unless SM is also scum and they're pulling a double bus. But even then it feels like a very shit exchange for them.
Okay, so VPB doesn’t make sense as scum either
This is where the VPB townread starts to get walked back
In post 3909, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I don't think it makes sense to get cold feet on SM now because we had this same issue yesterday.
Never let VPB defuse another bomb regardless of SM flip imo.
But pooky, why does SM sacrifice herself for andres?
In post 3912, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3906, Andante wrote:
why not? he's with 2 top SRs as defusers, thinks theyboth get limmed over him. yeet 2 town, then he goes. all while having 2 partners still alive. perfect plan. unless you're his buddyand know this already
no VPB gets blown up tonight or we lim him tomm
So now we’re fully back to killing VPB. But why the fuck, if he’s scum, would scum make him defuser knowing that he’s now in the scumpool? It’s not gonna happen, and I don’t think pooky can reasonably think that. So this is essentially just saying “let’s let him live another day”
Misty is now back in the suspect pool despite having been in null earlier
In post 3926, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like if we're at town!VPB scum!misty, why wouldnt misty just let VPB defuse and become focal point of game and misyeeted?
its better for scum to have townies be misyeeted than blown up by a bomb
this seems pertinent to the discussion today – pooky fully understands why scum need to have townies reserved for mislims. But then he conflates my point about “why wouldn’t I kill dwlee who’s tunnelling me and very town?” with “why wouldn’t I put you and dwlee together and let him blow you up?” when the answer is clearly that my townflip clarifies the game and makes it harder for pooky to win
In post 3928, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:esp if VPB!Town already defused a bomb on night 1, then Misty!scum has a lot of incentive to let VPB!town defuse again and give them a NK and it creates town paranoia on VPB and a misyeet possible in the future
I think this is angling to support limming misty before dwlee/VPB – something that baltar was also trying to do, and I think it’s clear why. If misty had flipped first, it would have allowed them to argue that dwlee and VPB were
both
town, and that andres died because of the rigged bomb ability
I actually included this one more because I wanted to know -- Andy, did you follow up on this?
Worth noting this one because apparently I’m still town to pooky here
Okay, not super strong town, but you take my point
This fits into the griping about the setup being unfair/disadvantageous to scum thing I mentioned before
In post 4368, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Mena do you think Dwlee is scum with VPBaltar?
Cuz I'm not sure what the point of this fight with you is if Baltar is flipping town here.
In post 4370, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like the options are:
Dwlee town VPB scum, Dwlee thinks Mena is VPB's buddy
Dwlee scum VPB scum, Dwlee wants to chain Mena after VPB
Dwlee scum VPB town, Dwlee is pre-chaining to convince us that Dwlee is inno to win a 1v1?
These two posts were both good and I think read like pooky engaging with someone who he believes is town and wants to convince
In post 4386, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I can see town Mena thinking you're scum for thinking he's scum but it's not compelling to me cuz you still need to flip Baltar scum first
A notion further supported by him talking about how he can see me as town here
In post 4427, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 4410, Andante wrote:notice how VP hasn’t gone back to being defuser… scum team knows he explodes if he goes back, so why wouldn’t town!vp go back to defusing???
well if VP is town he wouldn't go back to defuse either because Dwlee gets autoyeeted
But in 3912 pooky was arguing that VPB shouldn’t be limmed the previous day because he could get blown up! I don’t think there’s a significant difference between the two days, is there? Admittedly the pool was down to 50/50 by that point, but does anyone really want to argue that if baltar had been picked the night before he also wouldn’t have been blown up (maybe, maybe if it had been me/enchant/pooky but almost any other combo and it was very likely)
In post 4433, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I think we need to flip VP just to see where we are on the defusal meter
if dude flips scum we don't defuse any bombs no matter who shows up in the PT
i dont care if catboi comes back from the dead
This is completely at odds with what pooky has argued previously about letting VPB live in order to blow him up instead
Sooooo pooky is supposedly still on that dwlee scum train, or at least he’s fronting that he’s suspicious of him here
Now follows up on the previous stuff by voting him
In post 4585, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:yea im sure scum you would be blazing away with the machine guns and making it super obvious you are scum
you have convinced me
In post 4589, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:so you're saying if you're scum
and you have successful defusals
you would shoot up this town
to make it obvious that scum defused the bomb overnight?
Pooky piling back onto VPB as scum now
In post 4641, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:just from a risk mitigation standpoint shouldn't we just flip VPB
if he's town then mafia are nowhere close to winning and we kill dwlee tomm
and if he's mafia then yah dead scum whooohoooo
More justification for it
In post 4705, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I tend to play for worst case scenario
if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.
if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything
This also seems off – like if we needed to know by limming baltar, shouldn’t we have limmed baltar on D4 instead of strange from pooky’s pov? Otherwise letting a defuse go through was doable but would perpetually put us into a state of “we should probably lim every defuser unless GL flips” which is, uh, exactly where we’ve ended up
In post 4826, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:does Andy!scum fake a mech clear on her scum partner Dwlee when Dwlee is already winning the 1v1
I mean you can't really think this
Okay yes, I was being dumb here and this is a fair point
In post 4848, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 4840, Mistyx wrote:
if you think vp is scum why would you risk scum getting to 3/4 defuses by letting another bomb go through
because I'm not 100% sure on VP being mafia and scum
do not win at 3 even if VP is scum
also GL's first post in the hood PT felt really townie and honest to me. He didn't really feel like he was pushing for being spared - also I don't think there's any reason for Scum!GL to really expect the three of us to townread him.
In post 4851, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:look if VPB is mafia here - we simply do not defuse any more bombs period
there is no point to take that risk.
if you want to litigate whether GL is a partner we can have that discussion here in the open thread rather than execute in a closed hood.
In post 4863, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:if VPB flips scum here...
like GL is never defusing another bomb.[no1 in their right mind would let him defuse another bomb]
I am never defusing a bomb.
If the scum really r doing 4 defusal win condition it would have to be someone extremely townread as the third partner
This seems to me like it’s meant to cast potential suspicion on future townread players like dwlee or andy
Reading back through the game, I’m now thinking scum never really were counting on the “win via 4 defusals” condition. I think they would have been happy to take it if it just happened, but I think more likely is that scum wanted it to *look* like that’s what they were doing while actually trying to get NKs and set up to win conventionally through elo, and by getting enough defusals to make town feel uncomfortable ever defusing, which in turn essentially gives maf a NK every night
Oh, this was in because I wasn’t sure of context from iso but it was talking about how I was gonna be on a rampage if VPB!town
This is bizarre given the longstanding expressed suspicion of dwlee throughout. Up to the point where, in 4443 he says that even with a VPB scumflip he wouldn’t trust dwlee
Why the change?
In post 5117, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i dont understand how vpb is still alive r we being trolled
did he really die 10 pages ago but datisi wont vc cuz i wont give him a pagetop
Actually this is meh and irrelevant, was gonna say more posturing around the VPB lim but meh
In post 5252, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I don't get it
you just said it's either GL/Pooky or GL/Ceph for the scum team but you're also saying that if GL flips scum then Pooky and Ceph r both town?
Engaging with misty
So this is the reason for voting me initially, or at least the one that’s given
In post 5311, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I care about what mech makes sense to be in a game because I know mod meta is absolute and needs to make sense to pass review.
I do not give a shit about whether a PLAY makes sense for a SCUM to do.
Scum do plays that DO NOT MAKE SENSE all the time.
That is part of being scum.
If scum only did plays that makes sense they would get rekt every game.
This
Now ceph is scum for defending me – so pooky isn’t after misty at this point really, because for him it’s me and ceph
Still making that argument, me and ceph
More etc
And more
You get the picture
Etc etc
In post 5341, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:its so covenient you scumread mena but when there's an actual chance of the dude dying suddenly you're bending over backwards to make a defense for him
Etc etc etc
Etc etc etc etc, odd callout given that pooky’s only expressed reason for me being scum really is my claiming a protective
In post 5362, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:there's literally no incentive for scum to be using their nightkills before VPB flips because if their nightkills go thru it literally outs VPB as a scumbag
Now it’s me and misty – why did he shift from ceph being scum with me to it being misty? And if I’m the common factor here, why not try to get me killed more?
Instead he just hops onto misty once the wagon goes up
In post 5561, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:kinda want to say fuck it and just vote mena but also feeling too cocky might not be the best play here if he actually flips town cuz I can see this shit going very sideways
I think this is prepping for my flip being the likely one but wanting to set up as he knows that he’s likely under fire next
This is a good point but it’s one he that if he doesn’t make as scum then he looks worse for not acknowledging it imo
In post 5565, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i lowkey actually do think maybe he just waves a white flag here and concedes if he's actually lone!scum which is kind of gross but he has mentioned playing against wincon on purpose multiple times in the past
Want to mention that this is again, pretty much just completely untrue
Also the notion that I would concede when I’ve conceded like one game ever and it was at the explicit request of my hydra partner
In post 5572, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like the thing with him pushing me is.
I can totally see him actually being paranoid of me if he's like town cuz dude is fucking terrified of scum!me since I've like eaten him multiple times.
and like I don't think it actually makes sense for him to do this shit!push on me as like cornered scum cuz the odds scum!him actually flips me here is pretty fucking low and like after I flip town where the fuck is he going to go? try to get 2 more misflips?
seems like a tall fucking task ngl
Trying to discredit my read on him being scum, which is the same thing he did in his other posts earlier today
As I become less popular and continue to do my best to make it clear I’m town, he pivots to the other viable lim for today at that point