DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Ojando]

so tell me why I was wrong/scummy to say "you are either scum or the doctor"?

I was right wasn't I? (I may yet be right about both; or just the scum part)

You've been interacting with my other head but I agree your actions were questionable.
I mean are you seriously asking what's wrong with pointing out possible hints of a powerrole while waiting for mafia to make next kill? Why on earth didn't you wait to talk about this until massclaim had been done, we wouldn't have lynched before that anyway? Also, why potentially compromize the doc's claim with your actions?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'll try to Jahudo.

What's up everyone. I apologize for my sudden leave of MS. I'll try to carry on the game because I owe it to Jahudo, even though I stopped playing mafia.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

Claim:

Doctor

Protection Receipt #2
Protection Receipt #3
Protection Receipt #4
Protection Receipt #4.2 (got sent again after Adel left)

Role PM
Inbox
Sentbox

Protection Submission #2
Protection Submission #3
Protection Submission #4

Note: Pregame Pesco Light protected Frog Dodging. We've protected them every phase since then.

I didn't do any hard crumbing. The closest I believe I came to it was (after someone said it should be done) where I criticized Raging Wishbone post mortem for how he attacked FD despite having protected them. I made a point in being overly zealous about them not being scum (and I wasn't lying when I said I confused the idea of them not being SK, which I held ever since the first kill was blocked, with them not being scum), but especially after the 2nd time a kill apparently was blocked.

I am hesitant to say that Ojando is lying after we saw three trackers last game, although three doctors and two trackers seems a bit overboard. I would like for him to provide similar screen shots, stat.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Hey wait a second something doesn't look right here. Somebody double check my math on this

You didn't send pregame that's ok PL was playing. And in the role pm it says PL

did NOT yet send during phase 1

. It is now phase 5 which would mean:

You sent something during phase 1 = days 1 and 2
You sent something during phase 2 = day 3
You sent something during phase 3 = day 4
You sent something during phase 4 = day 5

That's a total of 4 messages. You show three and of the three Your reciept and send for number

2 has the title that shows it was sent during phase 1

. You state that your reciept number

4 was resent when claus took over which would mean that one was sent at the end of and during phase 4

Then you have message 3. I am assuming you sent protects during phase 2 and phase 3. Message 3 can't be both of those sends considering

the inbox and sentbox views

. Phase 2 went from Jun 23 to June 27. You do NOT have a protect being shown as though it was sent during that phase.

Did I miscount or did I just catch scum?

[PoketheAlpaca]

Yep I went over it again. You don't show what was sent during phase 2 after the rules changed but before RW got lynched, June 23 to June 27 I believe I have scum. Assuming you are a doc Ojando, send in your protect during this phase to be active during the next. do NOT tell us what you sent just that you did and then we can pile on and lynch nyball scum

[JDodge]

I still haven't had the chance to review this game entirely.

However, I will state that we are a doctor and nyball claiming to protect us is obnoxiously convenient protection of a pro-town-looking player.

[JDodge]

I would also like to point out that half of nyball is known for image work, and so screenshots should not be taken as proof of anything.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

I am assuming you sent protects during phase 2 and phase 3.

And why, exactly are you jumping to this conclusion? Don't you think that if I was scum and spent the time forging all of those images(yes, I think I could do it, but it would not be fun and not guaranteed to look legit) that I would have at least checked to see how many action phases there were to make sure I hadn't missed any?

I am looking at Saunt Adelaus' posts in isolation right now and imagining I am scum looking for when the phases started and ended,

which I would have had to have done if I was scum

. What do you presume that I would look for when carrying out this task?

Start of Action Phase 1

Start of Day 3, Action Phase 2

Start of Day 4, Action Phase 3

If I were to have 'forgotten' to add in a protection, it would have been for the one that was just wrapped up, which was poorly labled. Obviously I failed to submit a protection for the short lived action phase.

And I know this probably means nothing, but I don't have Photoshop or any other image manipulating software that would be practical for the task of forging images like that at this time(Main drive died on Friday and am in the process of restoring it). I used good ol' Paint to crop those images(you can see I barely managed to get the width of each PM, because the PoS program doesn't scroll over or let you zoom out).

[Jahudo]

I'm vanilla.

I think one of the claimed docs has to be scum because 4 is just too many town docs. I could believe 3 because of the multiple SKs though. The order of claims doesn't really matter since mafia doc would claim doc anyway, and again with the multiple SKs I could believe a mafia doc exists.

So Nyballs admits he didn't protect during action phase 2. Here's the phases and when people to show when people had to submit actions by.

Action Phase 1 Page 1-12 (before june 12, 6:23pm)
AP2 Day 3 (between june 23, 3:30am and june 28, 12:02am)
AP3 Day 4 (between june 28, 12:03am and july 10, 4:39pm)
AP4 Day 5 (between july 10, 4:40pm and july 28, 2:46am)
AP5 Day 6 (starting aug 1, 10:59am

Nyball posted once during action phase 2, in order to vote RW to L-2. When Yos was killed on the next page, it was an L-1 vote. Considering the placement of that vote even before the yos flip, he should have been thinking about sending in a protection, but since he didn't the vote looks pretty scummy.

I made a point in being overly zealous about them not being scum (and I wasn't lying when I said I confused the idea of them not being SK, which I held ever since the first kill was blocked, with them not being scum), but especially after the 2nd time a kill apparently was blocked.

How does that make FD look town to you? Are you saying you thought your protection blocked the kill? I don't see how you could think that since you didn't protect him the day the first kill was blocked in action phase 3. This looks like a scum slip.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

I made a point in being overly zealous about them not being scum (and I wasn't lying when I said I confused the idea of them not being SK, which I held ever since the first kill was blocked, with them not being scum), but especially after the 2nd time a kill apparently was blocked.

How does that make FD look town to you? Are you saying you thought your protection blocked the kill? I don't see how you could think that since you didn't protect him the day the first kill was blocked in action phase 3. This looks like a scum slip.

Because I didn't realize I had missed a protection until PtA pointed it out, and I am arguing that it is more likely that I would overlook that as a lurky sonofabitch townie, than it is that I would miss those giant bold letters when I would have had to have looked up the times of the action phases when forging those images, as scum. What do you think? If I forged those images, where did I find out when the action phases started and ended when I put in the other four 'fake' protections? How did I miss action phase 2, when both ends were clearly labeled, but managed to get 4, which wasn't(I actually had trouble figuring out when the start/end of 4 was when I looked during my last post)?

The other two claimed doctors need to provide the same screen shots that I did. You can argue all you want about how I have the ability to forge those images, but does the same hold true of the other two? If they are legit, they should have no problem copy and pasting each bit into Paint, or some other crappy equivalent, and posting them up on imageshack like I did. If you want to be sure about who you gets lynched today, you folks need to do that at the very least. And put a time limit on it.

[ortolan]

I strongly dislike the piling on to nyb by two players who haven't even (fully) claimed themselves

PTA: what is your role? why did you completely ignore your obligation to claim in your attack post on nyb?

Frog Dodging: who were your targets?

You've been interacting with my other head but I agree your actions were questionable.

If I'd been interacting with your other head but you agree with them why did you feel the need to point this out?

I will also state I don't fully understand PTA's attack on nyb at the present time.

[JDodge]

Frog Dodging: who were your targets?

I remember protecting Yosariwen in the first phase for meta-reasons. Other than that, I'll have to check later, and I may not have the chance until late tonight due to my busy schedule tonight.

I do not plan on submitting screenshots cause I ain't turning myself inside-out for something easily faked.

I strongly dislike the piling on to nyb by two players who haven't even (fully) claimed themselves

I have

always

been suspicious of nyball. Whether or not we decided to express my concerns or not is the main issue.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

I would also like to point out that half of nyball is known for image work, and so screenshots should not be taken as proof of anything.

I do not plan on submitting screenshots cause I ain't turning myself inside-out for something easily faked.

Very convenient change of opinion, from implying that the task requires a level of competence when I provide, to stating that it is easily faked when you are asked to do the same.

[Jahudo]

We really should see the timing of everybody's submissions in order to tell how much of the day they could had read, and if it makes sense with who they protected and when.

[Ojando]

Here's my screenshots.

Protection day 5
Receipt day 5
Protection day 4
Receipt day 4
Protection day 3
Receipt day 3

Sentbox
Inbox
Role pm
Doc rules discussion with Adel from Ojanen's account

I'm not screenshoting the protection for the current day.

I’m hitting loads of fatal errors/blank screens on the forum atm.
More thoughts in a bit if the forum behaves.

[Ojando]

Oops. Here's the correct protection for day 4.
I put day 5 twice.

[PokerFace]

I have read up on the recent happenings in thread and taken a brief glance at Ojando's pictures. The sentbox one gives me a permission denied screen so theres a problem on somebody's end there. I'll go through and check out the dates for the pics later on. I'll be going to work shortly and don't really have the time.

Mass-claim at this stage is a mistake. The entire reason we no-lynched was to have 1 less player in lylo. Mass-claiming now will probably achieve that, at the expense of losing a power-role. We should mass-claim, but only once a kill goes through or once we agree that no kill will go through.

On reflection I agree with his.

Is what Ojando said exactly what you reflected on or was there something more you considered then? Any reason in particular you went on with the mass claim today if you changed your mind?

When I say "pfft" I mean it as in "pfft, that's a ridiculous reach on your part; drawing a parallel between this instance and Alpha purely because I have openly stated Ojando is scum or the doctor. I actually suspect Ojando is

scum

rather than the doctor, which is why I said it in the first place.

I'm not so sure I buy that. In the post where you suggest ojando is doc or scum you don't say anything else about them. You mostly interact with me there. You just say that one comment/line in that one post about them and that is how it was simular to what nuwen said in the alpha game.

At the moment though I am more interested in this triple doctor afair. nyballs incorrectly labeled his pics as I pointed out and forgot to send one when he said he had been protecting them every phase. Nyball forgot to send during phase 2 and yet remembered the others so I believed there may be some folly there. No player died during phase 3 which means someone was likly saved by a protect sent during phase 2. Since nyball did not send a protect during that phase they cannot be responsible for that save.

I am vanilla townie. I didn't claim earlier because I got zealous over nyballs comments and error also aren't you suppose to wait and see who asks who to claim in popcorn massclaim? I am rather surprised nyball would make the labeling errors and or the forget to send error. I thought this may be evidence enough to point out there was real doc and a fake one amongst just those 2 since only one could have made the first save. As 3 docs have now claimed I guess I may have jumped the gun. I rather doubt the 2 remaining scum would both claim doc and potentially send one of their members to the gallows. It would be dumb for that reason and because scum would know if they had any kills stopped so they could anticipate 1 doctor already in play. So i'm thinking at least one is scum. Nyballs errors combined with what I said of their earlier play is making me very suspicious of them.

I am assuming you sent protects during phase 2 and phase 3.

And why, exactly are you jumping to this conclusion?

Don't you think that if I was scum and spent the time forging all of those images(yes, I think I could do it, but it would not be fun and not guaranteed to look legit) that I would have at least checked to see how many action phases there were to make sure I hadn't missed any?

This comes off like wifom. You could have made a mistake as scum. After all the alternative is that you made a mistake as town. Either way there definatly seems to be something amiss here.

Also you say you could fake it and then say your drive went dead and you don't have the software. Which is it, can you do it now or not?

Also you made the argument earlier that you had not been playing much site wide and been generally lurkish. I asked you how many games you are in and you have not answered. I don't think its a rules violation to mention how many you currently are in. correct me if I am wrong.

@frogdodge, your targets other than yosariwen are?

[nyballosulgniirkps]

I am assuming you sent protects during phase 2 and phase 3.

And why, exactly are you jumping to this conclusion?

Don't you think that if I was scum and spent the time forging all of those images(yes, I think I could do it, but it would not be fun and not guaranteed to look legit) that I would have at least checked to see how many action phases there were to make sure I hadn't missed any?

This comes off like wifom. You could have made a mistake as scum. After all the alternative is that you made a mistake as town. Either way there definatly seems to be something amiss here.

Yes, either mistake is possible. The question is: which one is more likely? You seemed to draw the conclusion that the mistake as scum is the only one that makes any sense. There's nothing in those shots that contradicts a doctor claim.

Also you say you could fake it and then say your drive went dead and you don't have the software. Which is it, can you do it now or not?

By 'could', I am talking about ability, not being in a position to do it.

Also you made the argument earlier that you had not been playing much site wide and been generally lurkish. I asked you how many games you are in and you have not answered. I don't think its a rules violation to mention how many you currently are in. correct me if I am wrong.

Sorry. I'm in one other game besides this one, and moderating one Newbie game. That hasn't changed since you asked the question.

[Ojando]

@Pokerface:
I made a new link, does this work? Never uploaded images before, I probably messed up something.
Sentbox


Nyball, in addition to the missing phase, your first submission date is odd.
First action phase was pages 1-12.
Your posting history shows you were quite aware of this mechanic, you post this on page 12:

I see this as a confession of guilt.

This is action phase - 10 post.

Hammer please.

Doctors should send in their protections for next phase before the end of the previous action phase(/after rule change before lynch).
End of page 12 happened on 13th of June. Your submission is shown to be only on 19th of June, somewhere near the end of page 13.
In the early page 13 Adel says that rules will be changed somehow and game's on hold. However, you couldn't have known that was gonna happen beforehand.
I could see this as a blunder from someone who's just putting dates near the end of gamedays and not thoroughly thinking backwards to the original rules, and it seems inconsistent with your post 287.

Still waiting for Jdodge targets.

If I'd been interacting with your other head but you agree with them why did you feel the need to point this out?

In case he wants to add stuff. Strange part of my post to reply to.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I believe nyballs. I disagree with the target to some extent, but it's done with the pluck of someone who has nothing to hide.

[JDodge]

I would also like to point out that half of nyball is known for image work, and so screenshots should not be taken as proof of anything.

I do not plan on submitting screenshots cause I ain't turning myself inside-out for something easily faked.

Very convenient change of opinion, from implying that the task requires a level of competence when I provide, to stating that it is easily faked when you are asked to do the same.

I don't see how it's a change of opinion between "you could have faked those" and "i'm not providing the same thing because they can be faked and thus aren't really admissable as proof"

Other protect targets were Ortohoops and then Ojando. We missed the remaining phases because I forgot about the game and Shanba went on vacation.

[Ojando]

Two which days do the targets correspond to?

[Frog Dodging]

Two which days do the targets correspond to?

I'm not sure. I'll check-back later, but I believe that's just the first three phases.

[ortolan]

What I'm suspicious of: You checked nyb's targets earlier and commented on their convenience, and also specifically commented on one player in nyb's photoshopping etc. abilities. Which means you definitely looked at their protection receipts, which means you know all you have to do to find out whomever you targeted is look at your own protection receipts, and are now posting from your hydra account. Yet you are apparently still unsure of the timing of your targets?

Do you still intend not to post screenshots even while the other two claimed doctors have?

I think I've still got some stuff to respond to, I'll do that soon

[Ojando]

@FD: please just paste the dates of your claimed protection pm's on ort and me, that should take 2 minutes.