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Post Post #575 (ISO) » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:25 am

Post by Sajin »

Vino wrote:
Sajin wrote:Is that suspicious to you?
I try not to read into this kind of thing too much, sometimes people are just busy. He did after all come and give you your pair just now.
Well I did have to wait for it. I had good reason. Time to unstall.




Vino has been tracked to tonymontana last night.

Vote: Vino


Took long enough to force you to dredge up your opinions. Yesterday you were throwing mud on my claim before you lost your vote, you then were happily pseudo supporting my case on kise. That change of stances looked incredibly odd to me so I targeted you. Today you are buddying me trying to pressure snow white.

I think his partner to not be locke and definitely not be snowwhite. Its most likely Kairyuu and possibly kdub. Depends if they were both trying to buddy up to me or not.

Scum---
Vino
Kairyuu
Kdub
Locke
Snowwhite
Sajin
Town----

So, are you a research scientist? Or do you prefer the long katana?
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Post Post #576 (ISO) » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:06 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

Hrm. Interesting. The likelyhood of two successful tracks in a row is rather low, but it IS possible. At this point literally everyone is under suspicion by at least one other person. Therefore, I propose we no lynch to see who the scum decides to kill. If Sajin is indeed town he will almost definitely be killed. Alternately, the scum will make Vino make the kill tonight so that Sajin will have no way to get more information. However, we WILL narrow the suspects down. Vino will not be killed even assuming he's town, so if it isn't Sajin it will be one of myself (suspected by Sajin, Snow White, and possibly others), Kdub (suspected by Sajin and possibly others), Snow White (suspected by me, Vino, and possibly others), or Locke (suspected by me and possibly others). Regardless of who it is it forces at least one of us to re-evaluate our suspicion list.

So yeah, I support No Lynch as a first option, and Vino as a second. The only problem with Vino is that if he's scum Sajin dies automatically (scum cannot afford to let him be right again) and we're left with the same issue tomorrow, but if he's town we lose outright.

vote: No Lynch
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Post Post #577 (ISO) » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:21 pm

Post by Kdub »

I'm not convinced No Lynch is the right choice. First of all, if Sajin is lying scum, then obviously he won't kill Vino or he will expose himself, and we will be put in the same 1v1 situation tomorrow. I suppose there's the possibility that Vino and Sajin are both scum, which would be a crazy gambit with Sajin bussing both his partners, but I don't think that is a scenario that should influence our decision because I think it is unlikely. Also, take into account the fact that the town may still have roles that could protect Sajin tonight.

I'm fairly sure Sajin is town because of the way things went down yesterday. I'm probably going to vote for Vino, but I'll give him a chance to talk first. Kairyuu, if there is something I am missing about the No Lynch scenario, can you explain?

Also, with another 1v1 today, we shouldn't mass claim yet.
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Post Post #578 (ISO) » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:24 pm

Post by Sajin »

@Kairyuu-You throw doubt on me now, yet do not provide reasoning other then meta. In order for me to be lying, one of the following MUST be true:

1- other hypothetical town informational roles supported my targets and thus did not CC my information. (unlikely, no one was very supportive of me at the start of yesterday)

2- No town informational role(s) exist. (unlikely, gorrad's games in the past have not been mountainous....and we have had 2 roleblockers flip)

3- The real town power role(s) were stupid and did not speak up yesterday at ML/LO. (unlikely, we have a competent set of players)

So Kairyuu if you want to no lynch you must be finding one of the above scenarios likely. Which is it?

The obvious solution is that I am what I say I am. But if your going to doubt me, at least argue one of the above scenarios.

So,
Vino's scum partner
Kairyuu, I thought you were saying you would vote snow white today unless I had incriminating evidence? Yet now you propose no lynch? Reasons please.

Yesterday everyone trusted me on my 1v1 with Kise. If it is ML/LO today, then it was yesterday as well. Kairyuu you immediately supported the lynch yesterday. Where did you state your reasoning for changing stances to be willing to no lynch in a similar situation? Explain.


(And duh we should not mass claim, I agreed to that so that I could drag Vino's suspects list from him...it took long enough)
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Post Post #579 (ISO) » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:22 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

@Sajin:
@Kairyuu-You throw doubt on me now, yet do not provide reasoning other then meta. In order for me to be lying, one of the following MUST be true:
I've doubted you since the Day started and you weren't dead. This isn't new. I don't fully trust you.
1- other hypothetical town informational roles supported my targets and thus did not CC my information. (unlikely, no one was very supportive of me at the start of yesterday)

2- No town informational role(s) exist. (unlikely, gorrad's games in the past have not been mountainous....and we have had 2 roleblockers flip)

3- The real town power role(s) were stupid and did not speak up yesterday at ML/LO. (unlikely, we have a competent set of players)
4- Your information did not contradict the information held by the hypothetical town information role(s), and they chose to trust someone who was handing them a scum.

Mine is far more likely than your three.
So,
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Kairyuu, I thought you were saying you would vote snow white today unless I had incriminating evidence? Yet now you propose no lynch? Reasons please.
Simple. I re-evaluated the position of the town and realized that it behooves us to use our No Lynch now as opposed to waiting until tomorrow (or not using it at all) simply due to the fact that narrowing down the suspect pool NOW will do us the most good.

So essentially I changed my mind. If you want to call me scummy for it then fine. I still support the No lynch.
Yesterday everyone trusted me on my 1v1 with Kise. If it is ML/LO today, then it was yesterday as well. Kairyuu you immediately supported the lynch yesterday. Where did you state your reasoning for changing stances to be willing to no lynch in a similar situation? Explain.
The situation is nowhere near the same. Before, we had a claimed tracker claim to have seen someone target one who died. Now we have a claimed tracker who lived through a Night as the ONLY claimed town power role who claims a SECOND successful target in a row. Forgive me if I find your situation implausible.

Hrm. Wait a second.

unvote
vote: Vino


I just remembered something that confirms to me that Sajin is damn lucky town probably being set up by the scum. I'm gonna leave the above in place to show my thought process previous to the realization.

Reasoning: I remember a point yesterday where I was determining which of Kise and Sajin I believed to be telling the truth. I was leaning towards Kise when I noticed him slip and say something about "before I found out you were a tracker." That convinced me that Kise KNEW that Sajin was a tracker, which meant that he knew Sajin was telling the truth because Kise was scum and Sajin wasn't.

Therefore, Sajin's info is legit methinks. I feel that I'll be lynched tomorrow for flipping around like this, but meh. I played shitty this game anyway, so I'm not overly concerned. I did point out the condemning slip from Kise when I noticed it if that makes any difference, but yeah.
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Post Post #580 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:08 am

Post by Snow White »

Lol. Considering that crazy ass vote on Snow White in page 23 im left with the dilemma to vote Vino or not to vote Vino? Honestly i think well get more discussion if we wait for a Vino's reply so imma hold off on it yet.

Ive been thinking about the roles and thus far we have 1 dead mafia and town roleblocker. 1 undetermined watcher. I dont know, im not as familliar with set ups at the rest of you but the fact that Sajin has just *correctly listed me as townie and identified 1 mafia and potentially handed us another is good enough for me. Also i generally find it hard to imagine any game without some form of a cop.

The thing on the no lynch is that it gives mafia the chance to off Sajin if there is no protective role left.
Similarly i felt Kai would happily tie the noose around my neck if Sajin failed to produce a name of mafia. He's more or less called out Vino as the killer and suddenly there's caution on Kai's part. Go figure!! Of course it could be argued im only trying to save my own skin though and maybe i am.

oKAY.... I may be blonde but did Kai just hammer?
Dayum........

If its the case is someone going to prod the mod?
I like ignorant people.
Cause they dont talk to me, and i dont wanna be talked to.
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Post Post #581 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:05 am

Post by Locke Lamora »

I think Sajin's reasons for tracking Vino are sound and Vino was already my top suspect. I'm even more inclined to believe Sajin than yesterday but I'd like to see what Vino makes of this one.

Snow: there are only 2 votes on Vino, as far as I can see, unless you can tell me someone other than Kai and Sajin who have voted. You do know we also need 4 to lynch, right?
If ya smell what The Locke is cookin'!

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Post Post #582 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:14 am

Post by Snow White »

@Locke. My extreme bad. lol. X(
I like ignorant people.
Cause they dont talk to me, and i dont wanna be talked to.
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Post Post #583 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:34 am

Post by Gorrad »

Vote Count, Kupo!


Vino (2): Sajin, Kairyuu
Snow White (1): Vino

Not Voting (3): Locke Lamora, Snow White, Kdub

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
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Post Post #584 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:54 am

Post by Vino »

Sajin wrote:Vino has been tracked to tonymontana last night.
That's true, but I think you're jumping to false conclusions.
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Post Post #585 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:09 am

Post by Sajin »

Vino wrote:
Sajin wrote:Vino has been tracked to tonymontana last night.
That's true, but I think you're jumping to false conclusions.
Now this claim will be entertaining.

*grabs popcorn*
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Post Post #586 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:39 pm

Post by Gorrad »

I am out of town until the Fourth, and will therefore be on LA. Your backup mod until then is Lord Gurgi.
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Post Post #587 (ISO) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:45 pm

Post by Vino »

Are you implying you want me to claim?
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Post Post #588 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:44 am

Post by Sajin »

Vino wrote:Are you implying you want me to claim?
Well lets see..

I tracked you to the dead person. You admit to it. You said this after my tracking report.

I asked at the start of day for informational roles to claim.

Your obviously not a protective role.

Whats left? Scum.

Your obvious scum imo. So my vote is going to stay on here. But I enjoy hearing false claims so yes I would like you to claim. But hey if you want to go quietly and self vote thats good too.
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Post Post #589 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:59 am

Post by Kdub »

Vote: Vino


If you were town, you would have claimed immediately and tried to explain after Sajin gave his result.

I suggest we hammer now and not let him draw out any information from the town.
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Post Post #590 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:52 am

Post by Kairyuu »

unvote


I, for one, do NOT want to let the Day end without a claim, and Kdub gets a
HoS: Kdub
for suggesting otherwise. That was so obviously scummy that I'm highly tempted to switch to you right now. Depending on the credibility of Vino's claim I just might.
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Post Post #591 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:30 am

Post by Kdub »

Are you suggesting that you would believe a claim by Vino? Based on his initial reaction, I would not, and anything he claims at this point is likely an attempt to force a counterclaim.
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Post Post #592 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:34 am

Post by Kairyuu »

I am suggesting that you are attempting to force the lynch without having to worry about a believable claim. Prior to your comment I probably would have disregarded anything he said, but you seem very much like opportunistic scum jumping on the ability to use a misleading tracker result in order to end the game in your favor. I don't like it.
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Post Post #593 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:12 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Yo.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #594 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:30 am

Post by Sajin »

Kairyuu wrote:
unvote


I, for one, do NOT want to let the Day end without a claim, and Kdub gets a
HoS: Kdub
for suggesting otherwise. That was so obviously scummy that I'm highly tempted to switch to you right now. Depending on the credibility of Vino's claim I just might.

@Kairyuu-What could Vino claim that would be credible?......

This is like claiming miller after a cop has a guilty result. You would absolutely call shenanigans on that. What is different here?

Can't you stick with the bus the scum buddy strategy?

To the rest- This is Kairyuu trying to push the lynch on kdub for tomorrow. I am more sure of the Vino/Kairyuu pairing now.
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Post Post #595 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:50 am

Post by Kairyuu »

@Sajin: I don't know, but I'm open to the possibility, unlike you. Also, it ISN'T like claiming miller after being investigated, as, if you'll look at the flips and claims, we have 1 dead town power role and 2 living claimed town power roles (you and Vino). Given that there were two roleblockers in the setup it stands to reason that this game has its fair share of targetting roles. I'm not sure whether or not to believe Vino at this point, but I'm retracting judgement until I see his claim. The numbers are in his favor.

A word of advice by the way. Don't automatically dismiss dissenting opinions as a power role. Just because you have some info that the rest of us don't doesn't mean you are infallible. Your role is incapable of seeing the big picture. You don't know how many people targetted Tony, only that Vino did. Don't pretend like you do.

This is the Sajin I remember from ages ago. You're allowing yourself to be blinded by your own role instead of looking at the game as a whole.
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Post Post #596 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:15 pm

Post by Sajin »

Throwing doubt on my role didn't work.

Throwing doubt on my opinions won't work either.

Vino claimed he targeted the dead after I had called him out on it. Thats plenty enough for me.


I WILL NOT let him rolefish on his way out the door.

And I assure you I am not blind to anything. I am calling like I see it.


@Kairyuu-But hey we can talk past results then. Lets talk about play in the thread instead:

Can you explain Vino's change in stances about Kise yesterday except as scum looking to gain town cred?
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Post Post #597 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:15 pm

Post by Kdub »

Kairyuu wrote:I am suggesting that you are attempting to force the lynch without having to worry about a believable claim. Prior to your comment I probably would have disregarded anything he said, but you seem very much like opportunistic scum jumping on the ability to use a misleading tracker result in order to end the game in your favor. I don't like it.
If I wanted to quicklynch, I would have voted right when Sajin returned his result. I was willing to see Vino's response before voting, but his hesitation to be upfront with his explanation makes me think he knows he is caught, so I think it is in the town's best interest to lynch him without giving scum a chance to out more power roles.
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Post Post #598 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:46 pm

Post by Vino »

I wanted to hear Kdub's thoughts on the tracker read before I claimed, but I suppose there's no point in that anymore.

I'm a Vincent. I'm a vig with one day shot and one night shot. I used my night shot last night on TonyMontana, apparently I got it wrong. Mafia must have been blocked or no killed. My day shot I will use now.

Shoot: Locke Lamora


That should end the day.
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Post Post #599 (ISO) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:57 pm

Post by Kdub »

I guess we will find out soon enough whether you are telling the truth or not, but I have several problems with your claim:

- Why kill Tony when you had indicated no suspicion of him throughout the game?
- Given that we are in mylo, you should have claimed yesterday if you are town, knowing that there was the possibility that Sajin would track you killing someone and get you lynched.
- Your claim hints at trying to out a town doctor (who may have blocked a kill), which is what scum would want.
- If you are town and are wrong about Locke, you have just potentially lost us the game. Why so quick to shoot?

NOBODY ELSE SHOULD CLAIM ANYTHING YET
until we see what goes on with this potential daykill.
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