Mafiascum.net

Syryana, my scumread on you was based on what I saw as your inexplicably floppy votes (ffery #276, and buldemar #313) since you offered zero justification at the time. You had built enough of a case on ffery and I didn't see the next page as warranting your sudden change of heart. I could see ffery's Kara claim as preventing you from wanting to lynch her immediately, but to change your read on her completely?

I'm less suspicious now that you have supplied a (kind of) plausible reason for the switch, but I'm hardly ready to call you town just because "only stupid/sloppy scum would make such a move" as you seem to suggest.

I'm not testing the waters. What do you want me to say? I'm sorry that my reads aren't more concrete? I tend to be a very reserved player and will second-guess myself, especially around more experienced players (such as yourselves), and unless I'm more sure, I don't feel like voting.

-Angry P

↑ fferyllt wrote:
Trust begets paranoia - fferyllt trusts orcinus, orcinus is paranoid about it
Trust begets paranoia - buldermar / fferyllt, not sure trust is the right word for buldermar's starting point, but the wking eventually made me paranoid
paranoia begets paranoia - fferyllt / buldermar, my paranoia about buldermar was reciprocated in spades
paranoia begets trust - buldermar / fferyllt buldermar's reactions to my going after him finally give me something resembling a town read

That's actually really helpful, thank you.

↑ fferyllt wrote:Was surprised that orcinus jumped as hard as he did over SD FoSing her for the post.

Honestly... I didn't realize SafetyDance was FoSing me... I thought he was criticizing my commitment/noob playing. Silly me again I guess.

pitoli, what do you think of Nero?

lynch me and swear an oath that you'll silently turbo lynch ffery tomorrow if I flip town

↑ buldermar wrote:pitoli, what do you think of Nero?

What do you think about lurker>nero

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:

↑ buldermar wrote:pitoli, what do you think of Nero?

What do you think about lurker>nero

I think lynching Lurker would be close to a policy lynch whereas Nero is deliberately playing in an obstructive manner, depriving town of information for no good pro-town reason. I also think lynching Nero has the potential of clearing ff and I'm not convinced that is also true for Lurker.

What info are you referring to specifically?

↑ buldermar wrote:

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:

↑ buldermar wrote:pitoli, what do you think of Nero?

What do you think about lurker>nero

I think lynching Lurker would be close to a policy lynch whereas Nero is deliberately playing in an obstructive manner, depriving town of information for no good pro-town reason. I also think lynching Nero has the potential of clearing ff and I'm not convinced that is also true for Lurker.

you're deluded

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:As a side note something that I thought of: if fery were scum it would be very strange of her to town read me

given that I'm generally an easy wagon

to drive and since fery evidently thinks my town game is decent (her opinion, not mine)

I was not aware of the bolded. Surprises me.

Not easy, sorry

Tempting is a better word

As in I've had wagons on me for basically all of my games, but I've only been lynched 3 times onsite

↑ buldermar wrote:VOTE: Nero

I feel like there is little to no chance of ff being scum if Nero flips scum, and I think Nero is looking terrible in the first place.

I hate it when I see arguments like this. But at least you think Nero's scum.

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:What info are you referring to specifically?

Specifically the information that he refuse to share by not answering questions or trolling when doing so.

↑ fferyllt wrote:UNVOTE: Nero

If you intend to explain this, now would be an appropriate time.

orcinus' arguments are convincing.

I wish you two could find more common ground than you have so far.

↑ Nero wrote:lynch me and swear an oath that you'll silently turbo lynch ffery tomorrow if I flip town

I'm wondering if Nero can be considered town for this in the event of a scum-ff flip.

↑ fferyllt wrote:I wish you two could find more common ground than you have so far.

I wish he'd wake up and agree to lynch you.

I guess I can have a look at delta.

That touches on what pisses me off about these lynch for info logic chains. They're often predicated on bad assumptions and IME they are as likely to mislynch town as to locate scum. Lynch the damn player you think is most scummy and then go from there once you have the cardflip info.

You have a point.

VOTE: ff

Delta looks slightly better than Lurker in my opinion, but it's so close that it's almost not relevant. Either would essentially be a policy lynch.

↑ buldermar wrote:

↑ fferyllt wrote:I wish you two could find more common ground than you have so far.

I wish he'd wake up and agree to lynch you.

If you're going to waste the next 10 days trying to figure out who could be my scum buddy instead of scum hunting, then I wish he'd agree to lynch me too. Confirmation bias ftl.

↑ buldermar wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:After reading ff's claim and thinking about it, I decided that it's unlikely to be made up. Bulder's probably gonna shit on me for this, but I don't see scumFF dropping a name like Kara when pretending to be a VT. My first thought was "Kara Thrace, VT, lolnowai". Kat, Dualla, Callie, hell even Tori or Ellen Tigh would be a better name drop for a VT. She goes with Kara though, and the more I thought about it the less sense a scum VT claim would use Kara makes. Claim a PR or claim an obvious VT role, but claiming a great possible PR name and claiming VT makes zero sense from a scum perspective.

It makes perfect sense if it prevents you from getting lynched, which is what it presently seems to do. I'm inclined to just disregard it, but I find the fact that she's trying to use it as a town-tell on herself troublesome.

Though in general I agree that someone using the excuse that "I'd never do something that dumb as scum, so I must be town" is pretty alarming, it's honestly your presence in the game that moves me to think it's genuine. I don't see FFscum making a move like that when she you'd be all over her for it. Yes, it's still a WIFOM argument; we could go at this all day and not convince each other. I'm getting a gut town read from it though so I'd prefer not to lynch FF at this time.

↑ buldermar wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:This led into my Buldermar vote. The guy went from WKing FF hardcore to now (if I'm getting info from his quotewalls correctly) wanting to have her lynched most of all. What most prompted my vote was his apparent obtuseness in dealing with her claim; he seemed to be twisting it to get her lynched at any cost. That and the 180 from WKer to guy with the rope was what prompted my vote at the time.

I think this is a rather biased presentation. I never claimed to have a town read on her in the first place and getting tedious that you, her and possibly others insist that because I point out her skills it necessarily means I think she's town.

I never said you had a town read on her. I was referring to the number of times you pointed out her skills and that you used it as a reason not to lynch her. In my experience the more you get to know someone, the more they get to know you, and they correspondingly get better at fooling you. My reaction in a situation where a really good player I know is acting strange is paranoia, not "save her she's awesome and if we mislynch her we're losing such a great player." That's what gave me the heebie jeebies about your earlier reactions w.r.t. FF.

↑ pitoli wrote:Syryana, my scumread on you was based on what I saw as your inexplicably floppy votes (ffery #276, and buldemar #313) since you offered zero justification at the time. You had built enough of a case on ffery and I didn't see the next page as warranting your sudden change of heart. I could see ffery's Kara claim as preventing you from wanting to lynch her immediately, but to change your read on her completely?

I'm less suspicious now that you have supplied a (kind of) plausible reason for the switch, but I'm hardly ready to call you town just because "only stupid/sloppy scum would make such a move" as you seem to suggest.

I'm not testing the waters. What do you want me to say? I'm sorry that my reads aren't more concrete? I tend to be a very reserved player and will second-guess myself, especially around more experienced players (such as yourselves), and unless I'm more sure, I don't feel like voting.

Hmm. It bugged me that you didn't vote me after making a case against me. Going back and seeing your only game on site, I see it's your style to not vote anyone until you're sure they're scum.