I'm worried that voided is not scum, just incredibly bad. He seems interested in painting himself as scum so.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:08 pm
by Tierce
In post 547, PimHel wrote:The point about apathy is the worst from all. We had a situation in which a player was barely posting and something came up which was heavily attacked by him. That 'something' was Shos claim (I know you're implying something else, but this counts as well). And guess what. It wasn't Parama who took advantage out of it. It was one of your town-reads: Untrod.
To be honest, I think UT is a dreadful player, period. If you want to lynch him Tomorrow, go right ahead. I won't take part in it, but I'm certainly not going to spend effort fighting the lynch of someone who is doing nothing to help the Town. I'd rather he got replaced (get Regfan!), but no one seems interested in the replacement mechanic. I don't want UT, in that slot, near LyLo, because he's an apathetic bag of nothing regardless of alignment, so *shrug*. Engage :justice: lynch mode if that's what you want to do.
And about apathy, I just got out of modding a game with Parama-scum in which both him and his scumbuddy were using apathy to their benefit. Don't tell me he doesn't know how to use it. "Oh, I was lurking to see what reactions I got, guess what, no one thinks I'm really scum, let's go back to lurking now while doing nothing about it, nevermind that I have a confirmable, cool role that can help win this game! Let's self-vote wheeee!" Do you see how that train of thought makes no sense as Town? How on Earth would Parama-vig be bored with a game? You get to make people shut up (and hopefully flip scum), and you get
bored
? No, his claim is a lie, he's about to flip scum.
And yes, self-voting is scummy, but we're not here to discus mafia theory. Apparently I'm here to be rambly
anyway
, but that's a work in progress.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:29 pm
by Parama
ahem
since this is what you love so much http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26594
in this game
I get bored as scum
and replace out of a god-role
as should be evident, my role is not what keeps my interest in the game
and this game has been pretty damn dull
also in Puppy Mafia you're clearly ignoring that I was visibly fighting the apathy
'cause it's dull as hell
screw LLD and her tactics, I like interesting games :V
I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a response at this point
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:41 pm
by Tierce
In post 577, Parama wrote:ahem
since this is what you love so much http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26594
in this game
I get bored as scum
and replace out of a god-role
as should be evident, my role is not what keeps my interest in the game
and this game has been pretty damn dull
also in Puppy Mafia you're clearly ignoring that I was visibly fighting the apathy
'cause it's dull as hell
screw LLD and her tactics, I like interesting games :V
I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a response at this point
Town roles. Show me evidence of being bored with awesome Town roles and then I'll consider what you're saying.
And no, you weren't visibly fighting the apathy from my PoV at all. :/ It's pointless to discuss it, anyway, and I'm going to have dinner instead of burning more brain cells because KK is probably about to flip you.
||| MAFIABOT || Deadline - 1 (The_Rufflig) |||
||| MAFIABOT || Untrod_Tripod has requested replacement. Stand by. |||
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:47 pm
by Tierce
In post 579, Kublai Khan wrote:||| MAFIABOT || Untrod_Tripod has requested replacement. Stand by. |||
Best part of that post.
Hammer down.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:18 pm
by Parama
oh
okay
!vote: Syryana
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:50 pm
by Voidedmafia
...Oh, right, Shos was already on it, derp.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:00 pm
by shos
darn, the mod posted a votecount. yes, I was already on it. and now, that everyone knows that, does parama's reactions look real to you as a person who was supposedly hammered as town??
my greatest fear was that parama noticed that it was not a real hammer and played my game. so...what is your opinions?
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:01 pm
by shos
also
!unvote
for thwe while
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:05 pm
by Tierce
In post 583, shos wrote:darn, the mod posted a votecount. yes, I was already on it. and now, that everyone knows that, does parama's reactions look real to you as a person who was supposedly hammered as town??
my greatest fear was that parama noticed that it was not a real hammer and played my game. so...what is your opinions?
One way or another, they do not. Why did you unvote? Because the way you word this (and the previous post right after the hammer) is rather loaded on the "Parama is scum" side, yet your behavior does not seem to match your state of mind.
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:42 pm
by shos
unvoted for the sake of argument and to prevent another quickhammer; consider me voting. I just want to hear people's opinions before hammer
In post 574, Tierce wrote:The data isn't conclusive one way or another, but Syryana doesn't have an issue participating in the thread post-hammer when Town. That's what I was checking, Voided; I know some people just don't like to. But outside that playstyle-tell, it's usually a scum tell, because it's an awkward moment. The fact that it took calling Syryana out by name to get him to the thread over a natural post post-hammer, and that he had plenty of chance to do so Yesterday and Today), is a scummy pattern on a player who has no issues posting as Town in the same circumstances.
I wouldn't lynch just on this, but it's part of the overall image, especially if Parama flips scum.
Let's see what happened since my last post up to the hammer by shos: Meta, your meta sucks, no it doesn't, your meta makes you wrong, hi Molla, hammer, don't hammer, "hammer" (it wasn't but we thought it was). Do I have anything meaningful to add at any point up to the hammer? No.
Let's see what happened after the hammer. Parama claims vig, he shot Sharper. Within 12 posts of the hammer Tierce calls me out for not posting. Uhm, okay? What would I comment about? Parama's claim? He's already dead, so anything he says is pretty much irrelevant until after the flip.
Man, I'm so darn scummy for not posting in twilight.
You know what, the hell with it. Let's take Tierce's "why Syr is scum" argument apart.
Spoiler: Stuff Tierce said
In post 470, Tierce wrote:^^^ Would lynch. (Won't touch this slot before Parama is dead, though.) This is a really bad post, look at how he's focusing on behaviors over motivations; I know Syryana from Zach's latest F11 game and he was far better than this at scumhunting.
In post 482, Tierce wrote:Note that this was completely left out of Syryana's Post 478; in fact, he said that "I cut out all the nonsense about shos and UT" from Parama's "edited post 149". He completely abandoned this line of discussion, when it was one of the core points about his Parama case and the only truly legitimate thing about it.
He made 478 about Parama and BBmolla derping around, with a pretense at motivation seeking that is really only skin-deep. Parama can be obvious at scum, but there is no benefit for him in calling his partner Jester to make him "unlynchable" and vice-versa. In a game with multiple kill powers, a Jester claim doesn't save scum, so it would be outright suicidal for a scumteam to claim Jester. It was a stupid fakeclaim from both and to both, and they are known to do so regardless of alignment.
However, in this game,
Parama
's fake bravado is much more likely to come from scum. He tends to act really awkwardly when producing "genuine" content as scum, which is one of the things that leads to his tendency to claim scum with anyone and everyone, make fakeclaims, and generally fuck around until he goes "oh shit this is awkward I guess I should try to look like TOWN" and then rolling out a pretense at content like the mudslingy 149.
Syryana is trying to push "bad play" as "scum obfuscation", which is ridiculous, since it's much more likely that (wonder of wonders) people are messing about in a bastard game. What is more, he is going "pushing a policy lynch on page 1" = "Jester" or "trying to look like a Jester", and spends a lot of time discussing the quality of their play and how this means they are scum together playing an obfuscation game. He even mentions that people say Parama derphammers in multiple games, and that BB is using this for their scumteam's purpose--but does not seem to care to check out their meta to see if they behave like this elsewhere.
PEdit: Apparently yes. ^.^ And now, finally, to bed.
In post 483, Tierce wrote:That Parama/BBmolla suspicion was where? And where did the Parama/shos idea fly off to? Is shos Town due to his claim? How does Parama's stance toward shos read now, then?
The shift in tracks in 259 and then in 284 seem unnatural, because you don't follow up on your alleged Parama/BBmolla/shos suspicions, and instead latch on to the comfortable wagons with lots of votes.
So, to condense all that:
My play is bad, and I'm not that bad (according to Tierce anyways), so therefore I'm scum.
My Parama case sucks.
My play is inconsistent.
I'm not posting during twilight.
Point one: I agree, my play here is not on the level it was in M134. There are many reasons for this: mid-game malaise, my only solid scumread died N1 and was town, this game doesn't interest me nearly as much as M134 did. People mostly messed about D1, Varsoon got mislynched, and overall activity was low. I found myself on Day 2 start with no reads, no interest in the game, nothing. I just derped along, made some superficial reads, went with that. I just frankly couldn't be arsed to put any effort into this game. Probably still wouldn't be, if Tierce hadn't stormed in here and shoved a taser up my ass.
Point two: My case on Parama/Molla scumteam was "superficial" and "makes a pretense at motivation seeking that was only-skin deep". The major point of contention here is that no way would Parama/Molla scumteam do what I claimed they did; it would be tantamount to suicide in a game with so many killing roles. Well, looking at the role list I can see a few that would make a fake-Jester-scum untouchable, so... Furthermore, Tierce kindly points out all these nice meta-related things that would have made my case not suck. Interesting, considering she'd just pointed out that I can't be bothered to meta anyone anyways (I straight up said it in my post), why would my analysis have included meta-related points? All I know about Parama is what I've seen from him this game and my case on him reflects that.
Point three: Yep. See point one. This point is also rather odd coming from the meta-queen; a cursory examination of my scum games reveals that inconsistency is
not
a part of my scum-play.
Point four: This particular argument from Tierce is fascinating. I'm not posting during twilight, but I'm active elsewhere, so I'm scummy? That's a really weak argument, particularly in light of the fact that nothing comment-worthy had happened up until Tierce called me out on it. This argument is weird for a couple of reasons: 1)Tierce supposedly doesn't want me lynched today. 2)I know she's a strong player, why are strong players suddenly making weak arguments? Especially when there's a blatantly obvious simple explanation for it.
I also realize I never answered Tierce's questions from #483. Answers: It wasn't there until after shos' claim. Roughly the same place as my shos scumread. Yes. Null, don't know how hardheaded Parama is w.r.t. his scumreads.
@Tierce
I do want that explanation why you don't think Untrod is scummy for his apathy.
Also, I can see why somebody would get bored with a game as vig. Because you can kill the scummy players at night as well.
@Voided
I don't see how that's an answer why you didn't hammer Parama
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:44 am
by Voidedmafia
In post 594, PimHel wrote:I don't see how that's an answer why you didn't hammer Parama
It's exactly what I said? What part of "I didn't realize/forgot Shos was already voting Parama" isn't understood?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:55 am
by PimHel
That's not the point. You said that Shos could hammer. However, if you wanted to see Parama lynched, you could have voted him yourself. Why didn't you?
In post 594, PimHel wrote:I don't see how that's an answer why you didn't hammer Parama
It's exactly what I said? What part of "I didn't realize/forgot Shos was already voting Parama" isn't understood?
In post 596, PimHel wrote:That's not the point. You said that Shos could hammer. However, if you wanted to see Parama lynched, you could have voted him yourself. Why didn't you?
rephrasing the question:
you were NOT voting parama. why did you not vote him then? why did you 'allow' someone else to do that?
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:12 am
by Parama
pro-tip: voided isn't town
rufflig just owned him so hard o/
hey hey let's lynch Syr and I'll vig voided tonight
