Still happy with my vote on Phoebus, cause he's really stretching with his attack on Lawrencelot there.
<Mini 435> Julius Caesar Mafia, Player Abandoned
Forum rules
So VanDamien, you're actually implying that at this time your vote is based on unreasoned responses to stimuli?
Yes Miztef, do be a dear and sum up your case against me.
Making sweeping statements and accepting them for veracity on your own steam is hardly the makings of a fine prosecutor.
Convince the jury man!
Nobody cares what your own singular opinion is.
Not majorly anyway.
Friends, Romans and countrymen, can you not notice the blatant tag teaming going on with Lawrence (who keeps quiet) and Miztef who seems to deflect away from him and towards me?
Surely, cultured people like us enjoy our wrestling and of course, the idea of tag teaming came from wrestling and duelling and the concept of seconds, rather than from the nefarious sports entertainment industry, didn't it?
DIDN'T IT?
Yes Miztef, do be a dear and sum up your case against me.
Making sweeping statements and accepting them for veracity on your own steam is hardly the makings of a fine prosecutor.
Convince the jury man!
Nobody cares what your own singular opinion is.
Not majorly anyway.
Friends, Romans and countrymen, can you not notice the blatant tag teaming going on with Lawrence (who keeps quiet) and Miztef who seems to deflect away from him and towards me?
Surely, cultured people like us enjoy our wrestling and of course, the idea of tag teaming came from wrestling and duelling and the concept of seconds, rather than from the nefarious sports entertainment industry, didn't it?
DIDN'T IT?
Your happiness is intertwined with your outlook on life.
The quick summary can be seen in post 549. It's a bit of an emotional post though, so I'll repost my thoughts here:
-Phoebus was adament all D1 to lynch Simenon. This action partially led the town to lynch Simenon and created frustration because other cases were for the most part disregarded by Phoebus.
-Today, Phoebus voted Lawrencelot for a minor scumtell alone. This is upsurd to me, seeing as lawrencelot's actions in D1 almost confirmed him as being townie. I sincerely doubt any scum would have taken that risk. Then, he has the nerve to tell lawrencelot he is being too jumpy for FOSing him.
- Phoebus decides to OMGUS vote me, with complete admission of it himself. I have no clue at all how this could be a pro-town action, expect to get upsurd reations out of others.
- Lawrencelot's argument that Phoebus's long-term suspicion of simenon is more scummy then his own short term suspicion makes sense. Phoebus however, believes that is completely invalid.
-Phoebus was adament all D1 to lynch Simenon. This action partially led the town to lynch Simenon and created frustration because other cases were for the most part disregarded by Phoebus.
-Today, Phoebus voted Lawrencelot for a minor scumtell alone. This is upsurd to me, seeing as lawrencelot's actions in D1 almost confirmed him as being townie. I sincerely doubt any scum would have taken that risk. Then, he has the nerve to tell lawrencelot he is being too jumpy for FOSing him.
- Phoebus decides to OMGUS vote me, with complete admission of it himself. I have no clue at all how this could be a pro-town action, expect to get upsurd reations out of others.
- Lawrencelot's argument that Phoebus's long-term suspicion of simenon is more scummy then his own short term suspicion makes sense. Phoebus however, believes that is completely invalid.
My apologies for not being here as a mod as much as I should be. I've got some pretty big things going on in my life that are much more distracting than I'd like them to be, but I'll try harder to keep up with this game. My Driver's Education classes are over next week, and then I only have my new job to deal with (my hours are by no means demanding, so this will not interfere as much as one would think).
Prods, vote count, and deadline will be issued tomorrow.
Prods, vote count, and deadline will be issued tomorrow.
rolandofthewhite (5:40:28 PM): It would be weird living with Thesp. All the hookers murdered and skin lying around. :(
- Lawrencelot
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Lawrencelot
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I already said that often D1: Miztef keeps siding with the majority (although now he sided with me only, because he believes me). In some cases D1 I didn't like how Miztef followed other's footsteps, but now I don't think he just follows me, because this time he adds the logical argument that he believes I'm a townie. So my suspicion on Miztef is mainly gone, but I would like to add this to Miztef: Thanks for backing me up, but that I'm on the pro-town side doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. Your suspicion of Phoebus is correct, however.Phoebus wrote:Friends, Romans and countrymen, can you not notice the blatant tag teaming going on with Lawrence (who keeps quiet) and Miztef who seems to deflect away from him and towards me?
Surely, cultured people like us enjoy our wrestling and of course, the idea of tag teaming came from wrestling and duelling and the concept of seconds, rather than from the nefarious sports entertainment industry, didn't it?
DIDN'T IT?
Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances
Ah. The fallacy of confirmation.
Nice.
I say to you what I said to Pattie: Bite me!
You have a person who is following any random wagon/suspicion he gets and then you have me - decidedly muley, yet holding his own opinions and you want to go after me.
Your funeral.
Nice.
I say to you what I said to Pattie: Bite me!
You have a person who is following any random wagon/suspicion he gets and then you have me - decidedly muley, yet holding his own opinions and you want to go after me.
Your funeral.
Your happiness is intertwined with your outlook on life.
Phoebus [3] Patrick - Miztef - VanDamien
BrazeGoesMoo [2] Sarcastro - lawrencelot
Miztef [1] Phoebus
6 to lynch
Abalidoth will be prodded promptly.
BrazeGoesMoo [2] Sarcastro - lawrencelot
Miztef [1] Phoebus
6 to lynch
Deadline: Monday, June 2nd
to be retracted in case of activity picking up.Abalidoth will be prodded promptly.
rolandofthewhite (5:40:28 PM): It would be weird living with Thesp. All the hookers murdered and skin lying around. :(
- Sarcastro
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Sarcastro
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Ugh, this Phoebus-wagon reeks of scumminess.
None of Miztef's arguments - in fact, none of the arguments any of you have used - are even remotely persuasive. I really don't feel like going in depth, because I don't feel that it's necessary, but I will if any more foolish/opportunistic people actually buy into this ridiculous wagon.
Hey, guess what? Braze is still lurking, because he's still scum. How about we lynch him? Since, you know, there's an actual case against him with arguments and evidence and everything. Not just three people who don't like Phoebus's playstyle trying to get him lynched for no reason.
None of Miztef's arguments - in fact, none of the arguments any of you have used - are even remotely persuasive. I really don't feel like going in depth, because I don't feel that it's necessary, but I will if any more foolish/opportunistic people actually buy into this ridiculous wagon.
Hey, guess what? Braze is still lurking, because he's still scum. How about we lynch him? Since, you know, there's an actual case against him with arguments and evidence and everything. Not just three people who don't like Phoebus's playstyle trying to get him lynched for no reason.
[color=darkblue]If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.[/color]
Interestingly, Braze has not persuded the phoebus bandwagon. Maybe it's because he is pure lurking though.
For now, I'm done with the Phoebus bandwagon. Unvote
Sarcastro is correct in saying that much of the evidence myself and others provided is flawed and unconvincing. I had noticed during my pursuit of evidence against phoebus that his case is based on playstyle issues, and not true scumminess. This is not to say I have no suspicion of Phoebus, only that I feel pushing his lynch at this time is not getting much of anywhere.
I believe it is time to go after Braze. His behaviour today is quite unacceptable, and yesterday's actions is quite scummy as well. Vote: Braze
(I know everyone will scream and shout that I'm teaming up with Sarcastro again, but again, my explaination is that we think along the same patterns at times. I was suspicious of Braze long before Sarcastro's post.)
For now, I'm done with the Phoebus bandwagon. Unvote
Sarcastro is correct in saying that much of the evidence myself and others provided is flawed and unconvincing. I had noticed during my pursuit of evidence against phoebus that his case is based on playstyle issues, and not true scumminess. This is not to say I have no suspicion of Phoebus, only that I feel pushing his lynch at this time is not getting much of anywhere.
I believe it is time to go after Braze. His behaviour today is quite unacceptable, and yesterday's actions is quite scummy as well. Vote: Braze
(I know everyone will scream and shout that I'm teaming up with Sarcastro again, but again, my explaination is that we think along the same patterns at times. I was suspicious of Braze long before Sarcastro's post.)
Sarcastro, that is a pretty blatant misrepresentation of the attacks on Phoebus. At least, its a misrepresentation of why I'm suspicous of him. I don't think he's done anything useful in this game. He stayed on Guardian for reasons which even you'd have trouble denying were complete crap. He then hid behind the metagame policy of LAL, to push the lynch of the guy who replaced Guardian. I think I made it clear I thought Simenon was a bad lynch. He was trying to do stuff and I don't think LAL was applicable there at all.
His play today doesn't seem any better. The vote on Lawrence was really stretching it, and I still see no reason to think Lawrence is scum, same as most of the game. I know Phoebus is a gut player and have trouble buying into him really thinking Lawrence was worthy of a vote at that point. Period. I can live with the OMGUS on Miztef, I don't necessarily think OMGUS is a scumtell. I've played before with Phoebus where he was town, and I'm used to his manner. I'm not voting Phoebus purely for being Phoebus. I don't think he's acting like he was when he was town, where my thoughts tended to jive with his more, if not all the time.
I haven't seen a particularly convincing case against ryan/Braze this game. Seriously. What bothers me is the obvious lurking which as noted before I think he tends to do as scum, but that's only because I've met him before, and I'm prepared to bet that others did not have that meta on him. I certainly don't think he's a no brainer lynch and that we shouldn't be looking at anyone else.
Miztef continues to bother me by seemingly having no opinion of his own, and changing his mind at the drop of a hat. He's been doing it all game. A few posts/days ago I could have sworn he was all for a Phoebus lynch, now suddenly he's decided he doesn't really have anything on Phoebus and wants to kill Braze, the lurker again. I don't know quite what to do with him.
His play today doesn't seem any better. The vote on Lawrence was really stretching it, and I still see no reason to think Lawrence is scum, same as most of the game. I know Phoebus is a gut player and have trouble buying into him really thinking Lawrence was worthy of a vote at that point. Period. I can live with the OMGUS on Miztef, I don't necessarily think OMGUS is a scumtell. I've played before with Phoebus where he was town, and I'm used to his manner. I'm not voting Phoebus purely for being Phoebus. I don't think he's acting like he was when he was town, where my thoughts tended to jive with his more, if not all the time.
I haven't seen a particularly convincing case against ryan/Braze this game. Seriously. What bothers me is the obvious lurking which as noted before I think he tends to do as scum, but that's only because I've met him before, and I'm prepared to bet that others did not have that meta on him. I certainly don't think he's a no brainer lynch and that we shouldn't be looking at anyone else.
I don't think I've behaved either foolishly or oppotunistically. Again, I am not voting Phoebus because of his irritable manner, which I sometimes quite like anyway. And if you want to measure oppotunism, I think you've been at least as oppotunistic as me this game, if not more.Sarcastro wrote:I really don't feel like going in depth, because I don't feel that it's necessary, but I will if any more foolish/opportunistic people actually buy into this ridiculous wagon.
Miztef continues to bother me by seemingly having no opinion of his own, and changing his mind at the drop of a hat. He's been doing it all game. A few posts/days ago I could have sworn he was all for a Phoebus lynch, now suddenly he's decided he doesn't really have anything on Phoebus and wants to kill Braze, the lurker again. I don't know quite what to do with him.
Mod
I take it you mean July as the month for the deadline, not June. If Abalidoth is being replaced, I hope you'll extend that, because we have little to go off from that character. Also, can you prod Illumina? I'd be interested to hear from him.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
- Sarcastro
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Sarcastro
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Patrick, my post wasn't directed at you. In fact, I had forgotten that you were voting for Phoebus when I wrote it. The three people I was referring to are Miztef, VanDamien and Lawrencelot. While I don't agree with your arguments against Phoebus, I don't have the same problem with them as I do with the arguments of the other three, particularly Miztef (before he made his latest about-face).
I am a bit curious about your claim that I have been "at least as opportunistic as [you] this game, if not more". I don't recall you being particularly opportunistic, but I'm wondering exactly what I've done that you'd consider opportunistic.
I am a bit curious about your claim that I have been "at least as opportunistic as [you] this game, if not more". I don't recall you being particularly opportunistic, but I'm wondering exactly what I've done that you'd consider opportunistic.
[color=darkblue]If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.[/color]
This day has left me very confused, so I've been lurking a little. I have read everything, though, and I think I have a better handle on the game, if only a little bit.
Phoebus, I think, is making things a little difficult: if he's pro-town, his behavior makes potentially pro-town people suspect him, and also makes him a desirable target for scum. If he's scum, he's quite blatantly drawing attention to himself in a way I can't see a relatively experienced player doing. Patrick: is there anything more specific you can point to that suggests he's playing this game as scum compared to town? I have a hard time believing he'd put himself out there this much if he were scum, but I'm willing to factor in your prior experience with him.
The interaction between Miztef and Sarcastro above (585-586) is interesting, and continues to make me distrustful of Miztef. In fact, EmpTyger made a good point that perhaps we shouldn't be as tolerant of sloppy or wishy-washy play as we've been this game (I've been guilty myself in both respects, for various reasons). I considered it a good play at the time to give Miztef and especially ryan / Braze some leeway because I thought they were potentially inexperienced pro-town players, but it's occurred to me that it's in everyone best interests to be a little more critical of their choices, so we don't unwittingly give them free passes when they could very well be scum.
To that end,
And as far as Braze goes, I still consider him an appropriate lynch today, although he's been much more helpful than ryan and I may be able to get a more defined read on him as time goes on (assuming he isn't lynched today).
I also disagree with a mass claim this early. I feel like I don't have enough experience to determine whether the mere suggestion is outright scummy, but I still don't believe it's in our best interests (it will be worth noting later who advocated what).
Phoebus, I think, is making things a little difficult: if he's pro-town, his behavior makes potentially pro-town people suspect him, and also makes him a desirable target for scum. If he's scum, he's quite blatantly drawing attention to himself in a way I can't see a relatively experienced player doing. Patrick: is there anything more specific you can point to that suggests he's playing this game as scum compared to town? I have a hard time believing he'd put himself out there this much if he were scum, but I'm willing to factor in your prior experience with him.
The interaction between Miztef and Sarcastro above (585-586) is interesting, and continues to make me distrustful of Miztef. In fact, EmpTyger made a good point that perhaps we shouldn't be as tolerant of sloppy or wishy-washy play as we've been this game (I've been guilty myself in both respects, for various reasons). I considered it a good play at the time to give Miztef and especially ryan / Braze some leeway because I thought they were potentially inexperienced pro-town players, but it's occurred to me that it's in everyone best interests to be a little more critical of their choices, so we don't unwittingly give them free passes when they could very well be scum.
To that end,
Vote: Miztef
. When Sarcastro was unimpressed with your reasoning on Phoebus, he didn't mention any specifics, yet you suddenly retreated from your earlier stance just because he disapproved. When did you notice or decide that the case against Phoebus was based on playstyle issues and not scuminess? Also, in your opinion what is the difference between Braze and Phoebus, in the context of playstyle versus actual scuminess (which you cited as a reason for backing off Phoebus)? Basically, what specifically makes Braze scum where Phoebus just has his own playstyle?And as far as Braze goes, I still consider him an appropriate lynch today, although he's been much more helpful than ryan and I may be able to get a more defined read on him as time goes on (assuming he isn't lynched today).
I also disagree with a mass claim this early. I feel like I don't have enough experience to determine whether the mere suggestion is outright scummy, but I still don't believe it's in our best interests (it will be worth noting later who advocated what).
- Lawrencelot
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Lawrencelot
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Important note: I didn't vote Phoebus. Phoebus, you shouldn't focus defending yourself from me, as I only FOSed you (and that particular fos was for your omgusvote). I am suspicious of Phoebus, but my case against him is weaker than Patrick's case against him, that's why I didn't vote him yet. Phoebus, I suggest you defend yourself against Patrick (and Miztef, if he didn't change his mind) rather than me, because I never voted you D2 iirc.
Small
Big
Small
fos: Sarcastro
. I think the Phoebus bandwagon was legitimate, although I never joined it. Especially Patrick's arguments are good enough for a vote, and Miztef's arguments could also be enough for a vote, but more for a Fos I think. My arguments were not enough for a vote, but I also didn't vote him. So I don't see why you defend Phoebus.Big
FOS: Miztef
. You changed your mind again. Surprise surprise. There was no reason to unvote, your arguments were good enough. If Sarc says the bandwagon is scummy, that doesn't mean he's right, even if he is not scum. Miztef changed his mind very often in this game, I would like to ask anyone this: can someone please check if Miztef's changes of mind were for the most part done after a post of Sarcastro? I don't know if this is true, but if it is, a Miztef-Sarcastro scum pair would be very likely. Unfortunately, I don't have time to investigate this myself.Unvote
. I will vote either Miztef or Braze soon, or maybe Sarcastro. There is also the possibility that Sarcastro is scum with Phoebus, but I don't know their relation early in the game. I have to reread a bit, but I'm not sure if I have time for that.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances
Lawrence...wtf?
I am not defending myself from you in any way!
You are giving me nothing to defend against. Talk about being full of oneself!
I thought this part was interesting.
Do you think that just by calling people unpersuasive and omitting the same yourself gets you any brownie points?
Pattie...
Maybe *you're* scum if you can't see eye to with me
I'd look into that more if I weren't so damned convinced.
Sarcastro
Miztef
Lawrence
rah rah rah!!!
I am not defending myself from you in any way!
You are giving me nothing to defend against. Talk about being full of oneself!
I thought this part was interesting.
And you sir, are not bothering to be any more persuasive than them, are you?Sarcastric wrote: in fact, none of the arguments any of you have used - are even remotely persuasive. I really don't feel like going in depth, because I don't feel that it's necessary,
Do you think that just by calling people unpersuasive and omitting the same yourself gets you any brownie points?
Pattie...
Maybe *you're* scum if you can't see eye to with me
I'd look into that more if I weren't so damned convinced.
Sarcastro
Miztef
Lawrence
rah rah rah!!!
- Lawrencelot
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Lawrencelot
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This was meant for me, right? I didn't understand much of this post but it did look defensive. If you don't want to defend yourself against me, that's ok because my accusation was not big, but don't say you didn't defend yourself when you did.Phoebus wrote:Ah. The fallacy of confirmation.
Nice.
I say to you what I said to Pattie: Bite me!
You have a person who is following any random wagon/suspicion he gets and then you have me - decidedly muley, yet holding his own opinions and you want to go after me.
Your funeral.
Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances
As sarcastro said, most of my arguements are playstyle issues with phoebus, not directly scummy. Just because a player is a bad pro-town player, doesn't make him scum. Phoebus's actions made me agitated and so I just went a little crazy and attacked him. After I made that summarized case against him, I felt that my evidence was not nearly as strong as I had thought, and considered going back to my original suspicion of Braze. After Sacastro's post, I decided that it was in my best interest to go after who I think is more scummy, rather then attacking someone for mostly playstyle issues.
Braze's latest act of lurking has really put me over the edge with him, and I hadn't really noticed it until now. It is possible that alot of ryan's actions are also playstyle issues, but becoming a lurker after being under heavy scutiny the day before, that is a definate no-no for me.
Braze's latest act of lurking has really put me over the edge with him, and I hadn't really noticed it until now. It is possible that alot of ryan's actions are also playstyle issues, but becoming a lurker after being under heavy scutiny the day before, that is a definate no-no for me.
Just that you've been all over one newbie and then the newbie who replaced him. I realise you often focus on one person, but I was just pointing out that I think ryan/Braze is an easier target than Phoebus if anything. Phoebus can stick up for himself.Sarcastro wrote:I am a bit curious about your claim that I have been "at least as opportunistic as [you] this game, if not more". I don't recall you being particularly opportunistic, but I'm wondering exactly what I've done that you'd consider opportunistic.
@Illumina, it's difficult to point to, just that I could see where he was going more and agreed with him more in this previous game (amazing race mafia). There is another game where he is dead, but it's still going so I can't point to it. In this game, I haven't really agreed with many of his suspicions. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. (I don't actually think my own case against Phoebus is very persuasive at all, but I'm still uncomfortable with him right now).
Incidentally, I can see what people are saying about a Sarcastro/Miztef connection, but I don't especially think it makes them more likely to be scum together than the average. I was more thinking of a Phoebus/Sarcastro connection last night. Sarcastro invoked the playstyle defence alot for Phoebus. The other interesting thing is that I know from scumchat that Sarcastro is strongly anti LAL, but he didn't seem to fight very hard against it as Phoebus and others used it to lynch Simenon. Why?
As a general note, I'm having trouble deciding where to draw the line with metagame defences in this game. We've got a few people saying Phoebus is just being himself, and Miztef's behaviour is something I'd normally be going after if I didn't know he plays that way all the time. His last one or two posts seem fairly placating of Sarcastro, which isn't something I usually see between scumbuddies.
<3Phoebus wrote:Pattie...
Maybe *you're* scum if you can't see eye to with me Wink
I just thought, when you kept asking me to bite you, were you breadcrumbing your vampire role in that vampire mini game?
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
- Sarcastro
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Sarcastro
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I'm not after brownie points and I wasn't even trying to be persuasive. I was merely stating my opinion. As I said, I didn't feel the need to actually argue against the points. Apparently merely pointing out how ridiculous they are was good enough to make at least Miztef reconsider.Phoebus wrote:And you sir, are not bothering to be any more persuasive than them, are you?
Do you think that just by calling people unpersuasive and omitting the same yourself gets you any brownie points?
To Lawrencelot and anyone else who thinks that Miztef's erratic behaviour is a scumtell on
me
- I didn't ask Miztef to follow me around, and I wonder why you have such a low opinion of me that you think I would encourage a scumbuddy to give himself away. I don't know why Miztef is doing this, but it's as confusing to me as it is to you.For the record, Patrick, I'm not
that
strongly anti-LAL. I did disagree with Simenon's lynch, though, and I think I made that clear. And yes, Ryan/Braze is a fairly easy target. In this case, however, the easy target happens to be the scummiest player in the game. And while Phoebus is an experienced player very capable of defending himself, he becomes an easier target with every vote and FoS. You're not opportunistic in going after him, but I think some of the later people are.Guess who needs to post? BrazeScum. Abalidoth and Eteocles, too.
[color=darkblue]If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.[/color]
Good point. I think I forgot Eteocles is in the game.
I don't want to lynch until we've gotten some real stuff out of Abalidoth or his replacement.
After that, I'm fine with a Phoebus lynch and I think Braze would be an acceptable one. For anyone interested, the game I've been referring to where he lurked as scum was Newbie 309, where I was town. There is another game where he was town and contributed
I don't want to lynch Sarcastro today, as my opinion of him could go different ways depending on other stuff. If Phoebus is lynched as scum, I'd look heavily at Sarcastro, if Braze is lynched as scum Sarcastro is probably town. The friction between the two seems too genuine to be busing.
Illumina and Abalidoth are neutral to me, and difficult to read. Abalidoth mainly because we haven't heard anything from him or predecessors. And Illumina is inscrutable.
I just don't see Lawrence as scum.
I don't want to lynch until we've gotten some real stuff out of Abalidoth or his replacement.
After that, I'm fine with a Phoebus lynch and I think Braze would be an acceptable one. For anyone interested, the game I've been referring to where he lurked as scum was Newbie 309, where I was town. There is another game where he was town and contributed
significantly
more when under pressure, even getting pissed off, but unfortunately I can't refer to that one as it's still going. I will if it finishes though. I consider him a practical lynch because of his lurking.I don't want to lynch Sarcastro today, as my opinion of him could go different ways depending on other stuff. If Phoebus is lynched as scum, I'd look heavily at Sarcastro, if Braze is lynched as scum Sarcastro is probably town. The friction between the two seems too genuine to be busing.
Illumina and Abalidoth are neutral to me, and difficult to read. Abalidoth mainly because we haven't heard anything from him or predecessors. And Illumina is inscrutable.
I just don't see Lawrence as scum.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
- Lawrencelot
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Lawrencelot
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Sarcastro: you have to understand that if Miztef is scum and keeps siding with you, you are likely to be scum too even if you don't want him to side with you, because scum can't talk at day. But I admit it would be a bit too obvious, and you would have told him at night not to do this if you both were scum.
The replies of both Miztef and Sarcastro to the accusations didn't seem scummy at all to me. My opinion is about the same as Patrick's, only Illumina seems pro-town to me, not neutral. I would like to see/keep pressure on: Phoebus, Braze or Abalidoth.
The replies of both Miztef and Sarcastro to the accusations didn't seem scummy at all to me. My opinion is about the same as Patrick's, only Illumina seems pro-town to me, not neutral. I would like to see/keep pressure on: Phoebus, Braze or Abalidoth.
Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances