Newbie 1515: Old-Timey Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Bins]

Honestly, Honey should have died last night, not Got.

And I don't like Boon's conclusion from the Got kill.

Ughhhh, how can someone fakeclaim and then Thesp still seems more fake then them?

BOON I HATE YOU.

[Bins]

I have logic!

Would boon claim Tracker if he was scum? Scum had no way of knowing the exact setup, even if they knew they had a roleblocker or not. The claim was risky without knowledge.

But Boon know the exact setup.

Why the hell would scum claim tracker?! ;____;

P.S. I hate Boon. He makes no sense.

Can we lynch Thesp before I change my goddamn mind?

[Thesp]

Sorry if I've been terse today. I thought today was going to be a straightforward, lynch-the-obvious-liar day. I see that I'm mistaken. Sorry for the wallpost forthcoming.

Boonskiies lied yesterday about being a Tracker, lied about having tracked Jake from State Farm and got him lynched, and now today is lying about being the Cop. He told a lie yesterday to get a townie lynched, then has the audacity to make an

even bigger lie

that no, he's really the Cop (

with no actual information

), not a Tracker, and sorry he lied about being a Tracker, but really he's the cop and we should believe him this time. Don't fall for it.

He has been apologizing for lying about being a Tracker, but makes no excuses for

lying about a guilty investigation on an innocent. Town players don't do this.

I can cite some examples here and here:

Lynch All Liars (wiki)
A Handy FAQ on Faking Guilty Investigation Results as Town

There are good reasons why town don't do it. First and most obviously, you could be wrong, and lead the town to two wrong lynches (the other players, and your own). Second, you could out power roles before it's the ideal time to do so.

In fact, these two reasons are the prime reasons that scum fake guilty investigations on other players.

Even more so

, if you are

actually

an information role, you have an incentive to stay alive, so it makes

even less sense

to fake a guilty investigation.

It makes a lot of sense to do as scum. It makes

zero

sense to do as an investigative role that can actually get legitimate results.

But why would he claim Tracker if he was scum, you ask? Wouldn't he be counterclaimed?

First, it was stated by several people (myself

and the lynch-target-player

included) that the power role should

not

counter-claim yesterday, precisely because scum were trying to out the power roles. The risk of counter-claiming yesterday was low, and really only happens if a power role had hit his partner. (Given that the partner is one of Brian Skies/Honey Bee, two of the players with the lowest amount of suspicion,

that

risk was even lower.) Second, look how today has gone. There

has

been a counter-claim (after he's already claimed

another

role), and it's

still

apparently up in the air. Obviously, even if there was a counterclaim yesterday, it's not at all apparent that he gets lynched.

But why would scum claim to be the Cop today, after claiming to be the Tracker who got a guilty on a townie yesterday?

What the heck else is he going to say today? "Oops, my bad!"? Instead, he's screwing around, and figures that

by telling an even more egregious lie today, we'll just think he's crazy rather than a liar

. It's designed to make us think he's a loose cannon rather than someone actively working against the town. I mean really, what else has he got to lose? All he needs is a mislynch today, relying on us overlooking the "guilty" result he got yesterday, and he wins, all smug on how he outwitted us with his antics.

You could argue that claiming Tracker on D2 was a risky play that scum wouldn't make. It's a slight risk, but I think there's considerably less risk in the play than is immediately apparent (and the play has significant upside for scum), and

it's significantly less crazy of a play than if he was a friggin' cop claiming a guilty result on someone

. It has

no

upside for a town player unless Jake from State Farm happened to be town.

I think there's a compelling narrative in that Day 1, Boonskiies was screwing around not doing anything useful. Night 1, his partner kicks him in the butt and tells him to get his act together. He decides to open Day 2 swinging, make something happen, and claim a guilty result on someone. (In fact, the switch to a Cop claim coming into Day 3 makes sense if the Mafia have a roleblocker, and Boonskiies partner reminds him that the Tracker claim is

prima facie

bad if the Doc claims and is believed, so he switches his claim first thing on Day 3 to a Cop.)

There's no good reason to believe Boonskiies. There is

every

reason here to lynch a known liar who's continuing to yank our chains.

[Thesp]

You know Boonskiies, if I didn't have a role which directly claims that you aren't the cop, I

might

be willing to believe that you were the cop who claimed a tracker on D1, except I cannot fathom that a cop would ever, ever, ever, fake a guilty on someone to get them lynched, and not expect to be lynched for it themselves. I still cannot imagine why you would seriously put yourself at risk like that. It makes no sense whatsoever. There's no reason scum should be allowed to get away with that.

@Bins/Brian - Can you guys read this. Like really really read this. He might be willing to believe me...I'm cop. He's claimed cop. And he might be willing to believe me. He can't fathom a cop faking a guilty on someone, and that's why he thinks I should be lynched. Guys...

That's...not what that says at all. You're just making crap up now.

[Thesp]

Thesp, I thought you had a townread on Gottemer, why'd you cop him N1?

Good question. A couple of reasons - he had been getting some heat early (which I thought would continue later in the game), and I wanted a bit more backup on him. He also hadn't really put a lot out there, so it was partially a sanity check. I also figured he wouldn't be nightkilled, so I'd have an investigation that could stand until it came claim time.

It makes some sense. But why not check one of your scumreads, though?

BoroPhil, Boonskiies, and Jake from State Farm are in the "want to face murder" pile.

^?

They were already getting enough heat and discussion. My cop play is a bit different from what appears to be the norm - I usually investigate players with the least information out there, and who I think are unlikely to be nightkilled. Jake from State Farm already had volumes written by and about him and was generating heat like crazy, and I figured he wouldn't make it to the endgame. I actually figured Boonskiies was going to get lynched on D2 (and was certainly going to be the prime lynch target), and didn't want to out myself having to defend the indefensible (if he was innocent) or lynch someone we would probably lynch anyway (if he was guilty). Cop investigations are most invaluable if the cop can stay underground for a few nights, and surface with several results on living players.

[Boonskiies]

He pulled the lynch all liars card. Doesn't even care if town or scum, he just wants it lynched. On a lynch or lose situation. It's up to you guys to decide. I put my vote on Thesp already. Do with it what you may.

[Thesp]

He pulled the lynch all liars card. Doesn't even care if town or scum, he just wants it lynched. On a lynch or lose situation. It's up to you guys to decide. I put my vote on Thesp already. Do with it what you may.

There's a reason we lynch all liars.

It's because scum lie, and town rarely if ever do.

And even when town do lie, town investigative roles sure as heck don't lie about having guilty investigations on people they didn't even target in situations they didn't otherwise need to.

That's madness. You know who does that? Scum. That kind of crap

only

benefits scum.

[Boonskiies]

Well, it benefited town here in hindsight.

[Thesp]

Well, it benefited town here in hindsight.

In what sense is lynching a townie benefitting the town? I know you're just playing to your win condition, but you're really asking us to ignore common sense at this point to the point that it's almost insulting.

[Bins]

I'm going to stick a cactus in your mouth. You did not benefit town.

[Boonskiies]

It benefited me, and I am town. Selfish, albeit. If you want, just vote me and we can end this game in a town loss. Don't really care too much anymore.

[Boonskiies]

@Honey - you need to post. You've been online since. Post.

[Bins]

God dammit. See, I think Boon's town. The problem is, if I'm wrong, I just let someone who fakeclaimed twice get away with it. Q_Q

[Boonskiies]

I have logic!

Would boon claim Tracker if he was scum? Scum had no way of knowing the exact setup, even if they knew they had a roleblocker or not. The claim was risky without knowledge.

But Boon know the exact setup.

Why the hell would scum claim tracker?! ;____;

P.S. I hate Boon. He makes no sense.

Can we lynch Thesp before I change my goddamn mind?

Yes. LYNCH THESP. It's what I've been saying all freaking day. I've had my vote on him since the start of the day.

[Boonskiies]

I AM FREAKING TOWN. You know exactly what I did day 2 Bins. I turned Jake into a sacrificial lamb. Please, let's get this game over with.

[Boonskiies]

Honestly, Honey should have died last night, not Got.

And I don't like Boon's conclusion from the Got kill.

Ughhhh, how can someone fakeclaim and then Thesp still seems more fake then them?

BOON I HATE YOU.

If I was scum, don't you think I could come up with a better 'conclusion' than Got.

Bins, if someone is scum faking cop they already know who's scum and who's town. They have completely full reign over their fake conclusions. I didn't expect Got to die, so I investigated him. I really don't understand why he was picked over 'barely-post' Honey, and Brian.

[Bins]

I'm going to wait for Honey. And Brian. And. Yeah.

Because it's Thesp/Honey and that's just so dumn and I'm going to read things over and I'm not going to be wrong because I'm not lynching Thesp until I'm sure.

I think the GOT kill points 100% to Thesp and Honey. Other than the fact your analysis of it was dumb. If you hadn't of made that analysis, I'd be more sure.
Honey was supposed to die in my mind, but she didn't, so I'm thinking she's scum.

If Boon/Brian were scum, there wouldn't be a doctor, so Honey would have died. She didn't. She diiiiid not. She's scum.



I'm waiting. But holy hell.
I'm going to reread. I have an essay to write and an exam on Thursday. I'll find time.

[Boonskiies]

What analysis are you referring to?

And I'm sure I've said it, but me claiming tracker yesterDay, a role that only the scum and myself knew wasn't actually in the game, was a way for me to be able to read the scum team. I do indeed believe Thesp/Honey is the scum team, but Thesp is most likely the RB'er and I am not going to vote anyone other than Thesp for the slight possibility you pulled a wool over my eye and the scum team is actually Thesp/Bins. That being said, I feel like 90/10 Honey/Bins, as scum, but Thesp I know 100% is scum. So that is why Thesp must die. And if you don't want him to die, lynch me, town loses, and I don't have to check up on this game anymore.

@Brian - With Thesp Lynched and hopefully flips RB,

YOU HAVE TO PROTECT ME

. At that time, I will be confirmed town anyways, so I have faith you'll make the right move.

[Bins]

Thesp, I'm so so so sorry if you're town. But you have to admit, this much craziness can't just be "because he's scum." Can it? I don't even know.

And I meant your analysis that the NK pointed to me. Because that was weak.

[Boonskiies]

Bins, remember when I said Brian was posting a lot of fluff? Well, Thesp's fluff makes Brian's original fluff feel like a rock.

[Bins]

I know. I think Thesp is scum. I really, really do. I'm just... ugh asnddzfads.

You know what? Fuck it. I'll vote him. I'm going to wait for Brian (because yeah, Honey's the partner). I'll see what he has to say now.

If Town loses, fuuuuuuuck it aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall.

[Thesp]

Thesp, I'm so so so sorry if you're town. But you have to admit, this much craziness can't just be "because he's scum." Can it? I don't even know.

That's not what I'm saying, and I don't understand logic to the contrary.

Which is the riskier play? Which has a better outcome for their team?

A) Scum fakeclaims an investigative role and claims a guilty on another player.
B) A cop fakeclaims

a different investigative role

to claim a guilty result on a player they never investigated.

Boonskiies has said all day that (A) was too risky a play for scum to have made, but that (B) is somehow reasonable. It makes no sense whatsoever, and there's no good reason to believe it.

[Boonskiies]

I like how he completely cuts out the fact of my explanation on it.

[Bins]

I like how I'm probably the dumbest town ever if I lynch Thesp but I still think he's scum.

[Boonskiies]

Bins...if town wins this will you love me again?