In post 502, eth0s wrote:Yeah I agree with you. I think he's gonna flip scum. Not entirely sure faustiv wouldn't have either but I just dont see that being TSTBS. Definitely not the way I wanted the day to end but I really couldn't tell where this was going. And I shouldn't have self voted, that probably will bite me in the ass tomorrow. Oh well. Hopefully this flips scum, and even if they still want to lynch me on the basis of thinking I was scum quicklynching for towncred I will have good associations to compare with.
Who do you think is eating the NK?
Are we going to ignore this?
It was an attempted fake mason slip, except with the cop flipping we know it's a lie
And you are going to ignore 501
Mason fake that late in the day isn't going to help them...at all
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:13 am
by Jamelia
In post 558, eth0s wrote:
I fake mason slipped. Yes. I essentially claimed a role that I am not. Why did I do this? Simple. I knew I made an irrational decision to lynch NMSA so quickly right after I hit the submit button. Be it a scum lynch or not -- I knew I acted on impulse and one of two things would happen:
1) nmsa flips scum. "Great! I hammer a scum, I have a pretty good idea on who his partner is, and I have shared my thoughts with the rest of the town." However, I am still a liability. Why? Well I quickhammered which could be bus for towncred if I were scum, and I also tried to lynch faustiv for most of my time here which makes things look sketchy.
2) nmsa flips town. "well now I will be a HUGE liability to town and easy mislynch tomorrow for sure"
I failed to acknowledge the fact that nmsa could be a pr (mainly because he didn't talk about claiming when there was intent to hammer on his slot)
, which I will get to that soon. My point is that in either of these two situations there is one constant: I will be a liability for town. So my solution was to put myself in a position where either the scum think I am a mason and will therefore night kill me and take me out of the equation, or maybe they will miss the "slip" (as I hinted at in 510) and a PR will check me and realize I'm town.
Obviously my plan did not work. Like I said above, I was absolutely not expecting nmsa to flip a PR. If you think that I was then you give me too much credit. I figured it must be worth a shot though, because there is a 2/3 chance based on setup that scum believed there would be a 1/3 chance of masons. Obviously the PR flip ruined that.
1. NMSA alluded to claiming on post 457 (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11277707). I caught that and was waiting for him to say something but again, we had a hammer before they could even come back on.
2. I see two reasonings for why you would fake claim. You really are town and you wanted a reason to survive, which would explain why you impulse hammered on Spam. You were afraid that the vote would turn on you again and just decided to take matters into your own hands. You felt guilty and decided to save yourself for today's vote just incase you survived. OR: you really are scum and you wanted a reason to survive, which would explain why you impulse hammered on Spam. You wanted to have a reason why we should not lynch you today, because you knew you were surviving.
I just think it was a really risky move and assumes we would have just hammered on you without any reasoning or explanation towards your hammer on Spam to begin with.
In post 509, Draynth wrote:See i think I'm overthinking this because there's 2 possible things
Here he says 2 possibilities. At first I figured at least one of those would be that I was masonslipping, but I'll get to that in a second. I have no idea what the second one was supposed to be, but if I had to guess I would say he thought it could be a scumslip (that doesn't make any sense given my wording in the post).
The second was your vote on the previous page, I thought it was a hammerbait, especially when you said you were surprised i of all people hadn't noticed given I had mentioned falling for one in the previous game i had played.
In post 502, eth0s wrote:Yeah I agree with you. I think he's gonna flip scum. Not entirely sure faustiv wouldn't have either but I just dont see that being TSTBS. Definitely not the way I wanted the day to end but I really couldn't tell where this was going. And I shouldn't have self voted, that probably will bite me in the ass tomorrow. Oh well. Hopefully this flips scum, and even if they still want to lynch me on the basis of thinking I was scum quicklynching for towncred I will have good associations to compare with.
Who do you think is eating the NK?
Are we going to ignore this?
It was an attempted fake mason slip, except with the cop flipping we know it's a lie
he apparently figured it out on his own.
Now I ask you, did he "figure it out" by rereading and thinking about it over the night phase?
Maybe.
But I am more inclined to believe that he knew what I was doing all along. And I expected he would know that the entire time as stated here:
I had worked it out before the "I have no idea what it is" post.
I figured it would make me more likely to be killed overnight if I knew. I needed to make sure that I made it through to today in case nobody else spotted it.
Given how the day ended I don't think it's unreasonable that I'd think you were scum trying to pull some sort of gambit to not be lynched today.
You also mentioned how I want to use it to mislynch you.
Did I vote you?
Did I tell others to vote you?
No. I brought it to the attention of the other players (admittedly in a shadethrowy way, I could've been more direct about it).
I brought it up because I want to see what other people think about it and if they think you're scum trying to live for another day or a townie who was trying to bait a NK.
also
@Geyde
I don't understand your point about 501. Would you mind explaining?
isn't that something you should have asked when there was intention to hammer you
In post 576, Jamelia wrote:2. I see two reasonings for why you would fake claim. You really are town and you wanted a reason to survive, which would explain why you impulse hammered on Spam. You were afraid that the vote would turn on you again and just decided to take matters into your own hands. You felt guilty and decided to save yourself for today's vote just incase you survived. OR: you really are scum and you wanted a reason to survive, which would explain why you impulse hammered on Spam. You wanted to have a reason why we should not lynch you today, because you knew you were surviving.
Why would I fake claim mason if I wanted to survive
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:51 am
by eth0s
In post 577, Draynth wrote:
I figured it would make me more likely to be killed overnight if I knew.
why? and why do you think you would have been more likely to be NKed than me?
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:52 am
by eth0s
Geyde can you answer my question
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:00 pm
by Spangled
In post 563, faüstiv wrote:
1) Reads early on in the game are very rarely genuine and if they are, they are gut scumreads at best. Sometimes it's good to shake the tree and see what falls.
Look, I can understand ‘shaking the tree’, to an extent, but... you can’t be disingenuous with your reads. If you’re town, that’s a good way to get lynched, because scum are always disingenuous with their reads because they make them up, and so if your reads aren’t genuine, you’re behaving like scum, with the worldview of scum behind you — which people will pick up on, and, rightfully or not, get you lynched for.
In post 563, faüstiv wrote:
1) Reads early on in the game are very rarely genuine and if they are, they are gut scumreads at best. Sometimes it's good to shake the tree and see what falls.
Look, I can understand ‘shaking the tree’, to an extent, but... you can’t be disingenuous with your reads. If you’re town, that’s a good way to get lynched, because scum are always disingenuous with their reads because they make them up, and so if your reads aren’t genuine, you’re behaving like scum, with the worldview of scum behind you — which people will pick up on, and, rightfully or not, get you lynched for.
Don’t do it.
I had a scumread on you, albeit a light one based on gut. I wanted to pursue t. That’s not being disingenuous.
In post 563, faüstiv wrote:
1) Reads early on in the game are very rarely genuine and if they are, they are gut scumreads at best. Sometimes it's good to shake the tree and see what falls.
Look, I can understand ‘shaking the tree’, to an extent, but... you can’t be disingenuous with your reads. If you’re town, that’s a good way to get lynched, because scum are always disingenuous with their reads because they make them up, and so if your reads aren’t genuine, you’re behaving like scum, with the worldview of scum behind you — which people will pick up on, and, rightfully or not, get you lynched for.
Don’t do it.
I had a scumread on you, albeit a light one based on gut. I wanted to pursue t. That’s not being disingenuous.
Yeah, I get that. This isn’t about my specific case. Just generally: only genuine reads.
Either doesn't know or is pretending to not know that I am "masonslipping"
In post 509, Draynth wrote:See i think I'm overthinking this because there's 2 possible things
Here he says 2 possibilities. At first I figured at least one of those would be that I was masonslipping, but I'll get to that in a second. I have no idea what the second one was supposed to be, but if I had to guess I would say he thought it could be a scumslip (that doesn't make any sense given my wording in the post).
Then he goes right back to not knowing? Seems awful convenient because:
In post 538, Draynth wrote:
More important than everything I just said is one thing: why is Draynth calling me out for this today? I think Draynth knows why I did it. And I think Draynth knows why there would be pretty much zero reason for me to do it if scum. So he decides to shade me over it today instead of even try to explain his stance. Let me break down the logic for you.
I fake mason slipped. Yes. I essentially claimed a role that I am not. Why did I do this? Simple. I knew I made an irrational decision to lynch NMSA so quickly right after I hit the submit button. Be it a scum lynch or not -- I knew I acted on impulse and one of two things would happen:
1) nmsa flips scum. "Great! I hammer a scum, I have a pretty good idea on who his partner is, and I have shared my thoughts with the rest of the town." However, I am still a liability. Why? Well I quickhammered which could be bus for towncred if I were scum, and I also tried to lynch faustiv for most of my time here which makes things look sketchy.
2) nmsa flips town. "well now I will be a HUGE liability to town and easy mislynch tomorrow for sure"
I failed to acknowledge the fact that nmsa could be a pr (mainly because he didn't talk about claiming when there was intent to hammer on his slot), which I will get to that soon. My point is that in either of these two situations there is one constant: I will be a liability for town. So my solution was to put myself in a position where either the scum think I am a mason and will therefore night kill me and take me out of the equation, or maybe they will miss the "slip" (as I hinted at in 510) and a PR will check me and realize I'm town.
Obviously my plan did not work. Like I said above, I was absolutely not expecting nmsa to flip a PR. If you think that I was then you give me too much credit. I figured it must be worth a shot though, because there is a 2/3 chance based on setup that scum believed there would be a 1/3 chance of masons. Obviously the PR flip ruined that.
The point I am trying to make in all of this is that I think Draynth acted like he didn't know what was going on because I believe his original intention was to night kill me when he thought I was a mason. Now that we have hard evidence that states I am not a mason, I believe he knew there was no point in NKing me as that would be a very odd play for me to make as a different PR and he knows that I am an easy mislynch today. So it just seems really convenient that he "figured out" what I was faking in twilight now that it's obvious I was faking it.
If he acted like he knew what was going on in twilight, it would make it too obvious that he had something to do with my death. But now that he didn't have to kill me due to the pr flip screwing my play, he conveniently knows what I was faking and will try to use it to mislynch me.
Prove me wrong.
I understand why you faked masons here, and in fact it was probably a proEV play to do so
I don't agree with pushing on Draynth because of this. He isn't pushing it to lynch, and the lack of support in thread for your lynch supports that.
You're building worlds off of actions that aren't supported by thread progression
In post 485, faüstiv wrote:
Egix literally hopped on to make him L1 WITH intent to hammer without giving any reasoning or rationale. Does no one find that suspect?
It is scummy yes.
Bringing a ton of attention to it changes what egix might do though so I really didn't want to bring it up myself.
This is the extent of any Egix/Draynth interaction from Draynth's side
In post 248, faüstiv wrote:- Dryanth hasn’t said anything that screams town. His analysis could easily come from a scum perspective;
- him asking questions to numerous other players is something scum would do d1 to ‘fly under the radar’ so to speak (as if they’re interrogating one specific player, that could disturb trust in the town)
- but I get a town vibe from post 28. That’s why I think he is null/town.
(Bulletting added by me)
- This is fair, I'm feeling the same way
- I agree that it's something scum would do on D1 of a game, but not quite for the same reason: not because of not wanting to disturb the peace, but rather because it's something they know they would be doing as town.
- I presume you mean 175 (the #28 post in his Iso) rather than the actual 28? Because I find the former of those to be AI (in the town direction ofc)
My prior thoughts on him still apply, but with two additions:
a) I find it selective that he applies the 'too many exclamation marks' tell to Jam, but not to Veggie (ofc this is a small digression that I made in my thoughts on Veg, but I was going through the ISO of each player in alphabetical order so it was initially missed)
b) I find it disappointing that he has made only two posts since I made my wall, both of which are simply him giving advice to other players.
In post 63, Geyde wrote:@Egix96 where's your head at in regards to the thread?
I don't see real solving from your posts
In my opinion, the game hasn't really yet progressed far enough for me to form any solid reads yet, but based on some ISO-reading:
Airan - They remind me a bit of how I was in my first-ever game (Newbie 1890), in that they seem... well, actually I'm not sure how to put it in words. Maybe it's because, like me, they started their first game with a scum rand, but I don't really feel strongly about that. I'm aware that Jamelia "love[d] that [they were] being 'paranoid'" but to me, 39 is a good example of what I'm talking about here.
Draynth - Not really seeing much in the way of alignment-indicative stuff from him yet. Most of his play so far has simply involved asking questions (also his 'quick tip' in 17) so I would consider him the de facto IC of this game (the Newbie game kind, when those were still a thing).
faustiv - I would like to see more from them first.
Geyde - I think that 62 is a +town observation, though it remains to be seen whether I will end up agreeing with it or not.
Jamelia - Probably not scum with Airan based on first sentence of 47. I can imagine the rest of that post being said from one scum to another, but not the first bit, I think that would just be way too corny
Individually though, not yet sure what to make of him.
NMSA - 56 feels a little bit reachy imo, but I guess that that can be at least partially justified by it being that early in the game. Nothing else from him pings me though.
I am not willing to put my vote there just yet, but
I will consider it.
" Seems non-committal and maybe self-contradictory?
Veggie - I notice that, like Jamelia, they also end a lot of their sentences with exclamation marks - how has Spam not picked up on that? But I digress. 66 I will admit is not a bad post, but I wouldn't say that it's "the best question asked so far" as Spangled put it... and Airan agreeing with that is... eh? But again I digress.
So with all that said,
UNVOTE: VOTE: Spangled
Extent of Egix/Draynth interaction from Egix's side
In post 557, Jamelia wrote:I think you've been asked for this before Egix, and you still haven't done so yet. Where do you think people lean at this point?
Right now I'm thinking something like
Town:
Spangled
Geyde
?? (Need to look at when I get the chance)
Jam
Draynth
eth0s
Scum:
faust
Add this as well
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:32 am
by Geyde
487 / 254
Both these posts deal with the other person's slot indirectly, without actually interacting the other person
487 justifies the lack of interaction with Egix in an instance where he did something really fucking scummy. This makes perfect sense if you wanted to create distance with a wolfmate.
254 literally says that he thinks scum!draynth would do what he did, but he doesn't take it anywhere. He ends up with the same conclusion somebody else made while adding nothing to the topic itself.
169/178
It's a question proposed to multiple players.
Lukewarm, doesn't lead anywhere, etc
Their interactions with each other amount to not trying to interact with the other player.
Draynth didn't want to be associated with Egix based on 487. Egix doesn't iron out the null of Draynth nor makes any attempts to do so.
Textbook distancing in their interactions. I don't want to lynch outside this
