Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[WhemeStar]

wheme i'm kinda starting to sr you ngl

You can vote me since you aren’t gonna vote creative

[CreativeName]

also notice how wheme said we shouldn't hammer samcro and wait for a replacement but now when it's me to be hammered he is eager tho elim me and not wait on a replacement who may leak themselves as scum?

This is blatantly not true. Please vote this off

It is true lol

When samcro was gonna be hammered you said "we should wait for the replacements to arrive"

Now I am at E-1 and you want it to hammer and not wait for samcro's replacement which is inconsistent behaviour

Because Samcro has posted content. At the time those 2 slots haven’t produced any content so it’s better to wait for replacements then. I thought this was obvioisb

Samcro hasn't posted since new info/reads came up, t's been a few irl days since he posted so that's not obvious, we'd want that slot's opinions before we decide on the final lynch

[WhemeStar]

also notice how wheme said we shouldn't hammer samcro and wait for a replacement but now when it's me to be hammered he is eager tho elim me and not wait on a replacement who may leak themselves as scum?

This is blatantly not true. Please vote this off

It is true lol

When samcro was gonna be hammered you said "we should wait for the replacements to arrive"

Now I am at E-1 and you want it to hammer and not wait for samcro's replacement which is inconsistent behaviour

Because Samcro has posted content. At the time those 2 slots haven’t produced any content so it’s better to wait for replacements then. I thought this was obvioisb

Samcro hasn't posted since new info/reads came up, t's been a few irl days since he posted so that's not obvious, we'd want that slot's opinions before we decide on the final lynch

This is scum

[skitter30]

wheme why did you think he was a pr again?

sorry, did you answer this?

[WhemeStar]

wheme why did you think he was a pr again?

sorry, did you answer this?

94

[skitter30]

I mean it depends on the strength of the read, a small read would definitely be reasonable on anyone by anyone, but a strong one this early is more likely pocketing or some nefarious tactic especially considering I have done nothing too townish yet, however we must remember mason possibility this game and that will also affect people's reads, I am not saying me and skitter are masons but it is something to look for in people's later reads. also cops definitely with experience will include their results in their reads, But as it's only D1 with no headstart there should be no invest results.

this was almost a vt soft imo
meh ok i agree that you probably kill him last night tho

[CreativeName]

I didn't want tho have to do this but you forced my hand,

I am tracker and I saw SAMCRO visit T3,

I was trying to put it in my reads so mafia wouldn't kill me, that's why I was tunnelling him

Thanks wheme you forced me to claim

[WhemeStar]

I mean it depends on the strength of the read, a small read would definitely be reasonable on anyone by anyone, but a strong one this early is more likely pocketing or some nefarious tactic especially considering I have done nothing too townish yet, however we must remember mason possibility this game and that will also affect people's reads, I am not saying me and skitter are masons but it is something to look for in people's later reads. also cops definitely with experience will include their results in their reads, But as it's only D1 with no headstart there should be no invest results.

this was almost a vt soft imo
meh ok i agree that you probably kill him last night tho

We can agree to disagree
Regardless I think he’s flailing currrently and his logic is making 0 sense

[skitter30]

oh man ... :/you maybe shouldn't have claimed just yet. i don't think you were imminently gonna flip

and i thought you were softing vt

of course, if sam is not scum we flip you tom
but i'm very content voting sam today

(and whooooooo my reads are good :) )

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

I hate my life

[skitter30]

the proper way to do this is everyone formally says whether or not they cc.
can someone voting creative unvote just so there's some room to do the massclaim process without any 'unfortunate' accidents?

i am not counterclaiming (i.e. i claim vt)

[skitter30]

thanks wheme

[skitter30]

i'm like >90% confident that this is true (cuz if samcro doesn't flip literally scum we just flip creative tomorrow)

so A2. and presumably sam is not the rb
seeds' scum equity goes up given how heavily he was defending sam....

[skitter30]

Kazyan
CreativeName
SAMCRO
six pomegranate seeds GriffNotGraph
Andante Megan Thee Stallion
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear (SE)
WhemeStar (SE)
skitter30 (SE)

kazy i townread a decent amt
creative is basically conftown (assuming sam flips scum, etc)
sam - presumed scum
seeds - well, defended the presumed scum an insane amt
andante - town
t3 - dead
pooky - dead
wheme - eh
myself

so i think it's just sam + one of wheme/seeds, probably seeds
maybe we can all say what we think the solve is now?

creative, why did you track sam?

[WhemeStar]

I’m VT btw

[WhemeStar]

Samcro being scum makes me think his partner cannot be skitter.

[skitter30]

y not again?
( i mean i know that and agree with you, but why is that from an outsider's pov)

[WhemeStar]

I don’t think you let Samcro kill n1

[six pomegranate seeds]

I just got home from work, kind a rough day ngl.

Read Creative's RR. I will point out to you skitter that I was actually making posts indicating I was warming up to the idea of voting SAMCRO because I was having serious doubts about Creative flipping scum. If I'm scum with SAMCRO I had plenty of time to just hammer creative rather than request no hammer and sit here.

And also I will point out that all this rr confirms is that Creative is opposite alignments from SAMCRO.

I spent a long time scum casing you and threw some light shade at creative, but then basically said there was no way I was voting him and said I was voting into SAMCRO and kazyan didn't I? Honestly don't remember right now, am very tired.

But honestly this rr is a little bit weird because creative actually asked earlier in the day if there were any incriminating tracker results? Maybe it is just to avoid eating the next night kill. For some reason I had kazyan and SAMCRO aligned I think it was because kaz came into day voting creative but then swapped to saying that he would vote samcro when he saw the tides turning. Then when I came in hard defending SAMCRO he used this as a way to switch back.

This is my first forum game and if SAMCRO flips scum it will actually surprise me and also be one of the first times where my initial read was wrong an then with time I actually was starting to warm up to the correct vote. There was a time last night when I thought about making a post saying "F it this guy played so bad he deserves to get voted even if he's town" in regards to SAMCRO. I think I actually kind of did make a post to that effect.

Wheme's play about retracting a TR to prevent Creative from being nk'd seems kinda townie, I'll have to think it over.

I'll sit here for a bit and think about Creative's rr. My initial gut when he was antagonizing me when I had hamer on hi was that he was just town. But if I'm PR with a red check do I really sit at E-1 and wait almost an entire day before rring with my red check? He seemed very town sitting at E-1 initially, but I have to think through this RR.

And btw SAMCRO flips scum I don't mind being voted in final 5, you guys will get another shot in final 3. Just give me that day to think about who a partner might be.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Also Kazyan you're read was right if you're really town! Good job

Of course if you're mafia you already knew that though

Don't mean to light shade you, just joking around my friend

[skitter30]

i think going sam -> seeds -> wheme probably wins the game, that's just my opinion

i dont' love that you're mitigating the strength of your defense of sam tbh

and sorry that your day was rough

[skitter30]

also post massclaim i don't mind flipping sam without actually getting a replacement ... we never don't flip that slot here i think

[six pomegranate seeds]

Crazy question: would it be best to just flip SAM here? If he is town like I think I think he is going to be miselimed like for sure in ELO. And if he is scum then I will lose the game in ELO voting with him. At least flipping SAM here would give us a little bit of information, like to me him flipping blue would make Wheme a pretty strong town, and I feel like Andante feels like a town right now. Also I feel like letting someone win as scum the way SAM played is just bad for the game. And this way I won't feel guilty for throwing if you guys were right that he was scum. Just a thought.

This actually may give me scum pings if SAM is actually mafia LMAO. My brain is trying to hold back my gut from convincing myself into a SAM vote and when I'm able to hold myself back Wheme gives me second thoughts again while at the same time voting Creative lol.

Wheme otherwise seemed quite town this game. The only thing that scared me tbh was I thought that Wheme's reaction to Creative's #94 could have been a scum Wheme breadcrumbing an invest soft so that if he could get Creative voted on this day he could cc cop in lylo with a blue on his partner SAMCRO and use all the towncred he accumulated to get town to misvote. I never said this out loud because I was afraid that Wheme was actually just outed investigative and was going to die but it's a relief now that creative claimed investigative LOL.

So at present I am thinking about Creative's claim probabilistically. We know we are in row 2. I'm not sure if everyone has posted besides SAM yet, but if I assume there are no ccs from active players, the options are either that SAMCRO afk'd as invest after claiming VT on d1 - but I disregard this option as basically impossible because I don't think a PR would afk like this? - or there is a 2/3 chance that Creative is town if there is no cc because column A and B would necessitate a cc in this situation vs. a 1/3 chance that he is scum and we are in column C.

Concluson: Pure probability - 1/3 chance that Creative is scum, 2/3 chance he is town -> ergo SAMCRO is a good vote by probability.

Thinking through the way Creative played prior to his RR it is plausiblie that he was basically sitting there seeing who would defend SAMCRO and then deem them a partner and vote them i.e. voting me.

But to be honest with you, if I'm cop with a red in this setup I would have just outted - I would have never let myself get put on E-1 and kept my vote on someone other than my red. What if someone swoops in to hammer me and I died voting seeds who was not my check? It would be totally ambiguous that I had a sided altogether - in fact it would be likely for town to assume Creatie had a NS'd check given the fact that he swapped votes.

So I guess my question to Creative is - if you had a red on SAMCRO, why did you wait so long to out it when you were on E-1 and why did you risk dying with your vote on me without RRing creating an ambiguous situation for town to interpret your implied check? This is probably the only roadblock in my mind to just quickhammering SAMCRO and moving on.

[WhemeStar]

Uhm what that is not something I would say I dont use perfect gammar

[CreativeName]

I really hoped I wouldn't so I wouldn't die with JK dead, but TBH I was worried I would be hammered so I outed because otherwise as you said it may be ambiguous as to my check, I also voted you when I did to tie the vote as a way to stop me dying

I really hoped someone would link my tunnelling with a red result but I guess not