nd it didnt workout -- just recieved "backlash for it"
No, listen, Grandpa, I don't mean to be rude, but that's clearly not what you have done - you've just reiterated a
Scum
case on James and I want to hear a
Town
case on James. Frankly, unless you are going to start posting reasons why you think James could actually be town - in such a way that I'll be able to follow them - yours is only opinion I don't want right now. I've got myself here by trying to game out a Scum!Grandpa.
Maybe you pay a little more attention to a post when you see your name in it, but I've started to notice you've been pushing the idea of a {Val, James} scum pair as early as #268, something you've brought up again today in #465, and you seem desperate to get feedback from the other players as to how far that idea has started to implant. It feels a bit like you are starting to try and set me up for the D2 lim, knowing that James is going to flip red today. I know I then have to read you and James as scum v scum and I'm struggling to see that right now, but I'm not seeing an alternative.
Then again, t3 says trying to link people together and set up for the elimination the next day in something town!Grandpa does; so I don't fully know where I am at. Regardless, I want to hear from others now on James.
i think ur town imo
"With grandpa in the game the postcount goes up and up and up and up...." - T3
t3, If you are suggesting we get rid of Grandpa just to clear out some of the noise, I am afraid I like that idea a lot more than I probably ought. It's one of the reasons I said this 300 posts ago.
In post 228, Val89 wrote:what I do get is a sense that Grandpa is trying as hard as he can to advance the game, and is getting as frustrated at not being able to put what he wants to put across effectively as I sometimes get frustrated trying to decode it. It seems far too...I guess genuine, to be scum deliberately trying to derail and distract, but the inconsistences and the effect it's having on town makes Grandpa the clear and easy target for a a mislim; and smart scum have probably tuned into that already. I don't think its a coincidence, for example, that both my scumreads are on that wagon.
In post 579, Val89 wrote:t3, If you are suggesting we get rid of Grandpa just to clear out some of the noise, I am afraid I like that idea a lot more than I probably ought. It's one of the reasons I said this 300 posts ago.
In post 228, Val89 wrote:what I do get is a sense that Grandpa is trying as hard as he can to advance the game, and is getting as frustrated at not being able to put what he wants to put across effectively as I sometimes get frustrated trying to decode it. It seems far too...I guess genuine, to be scum deliberately trying to derail and distract, but the inconsistences and the effect it's having on town makes Grandpa the clear and easy target for a a mislim; and smart scum have probably tuned into that already. I don't think its a coincidence, for example, that both my scumreads are on that wagon.
In post 259, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Anyway i will let this point ruminate as i wait to see James's response to all of this.
Did you get what you were expecting, Norwee?
Pretty much yeah.
I don’t think James is scum here, but the extreme tenacity some slots have in continuing to keep that spark of hope that we lim James today alive is quite telling too. And i think you should know who i mean.
I want to keep voting where i currently am, but if Grandpa is within hammer range i might consider nailing the coffin.
I love how after that post the game died for a bit... have no fear, I am back, and based on my skim of the thread it looks like I have WORK to do by others' request, stay tuned
I'll be closer to ready to vote after today's analysis... Currently working through all of James's ISO in heavy detail with fresher eyes. I intend to put my vote down on James or Grandpa depending on how I feel at the end of it. Either I'll have a case for town James as requested and lay my vote on Grandpa, or I'll go back and change my opinion AGAIN and go back to scum James like I was in the first place.
With that being said, Grandpa, I haven't gotten to the parts of the game you quoted yet but I am getting there and have not forgotten posts 571/572.
At the time of writing this, James has 63 posts in his ISO and this covers the first ten (ugh this might take a while), which in turn covers the first 85 posts of the whole game. Color-coded to indicate how I think it affects alignment potential, if at all.
TL;DR
it's a bit of a mixed bag so far with the needle slightly closer to scum than town.
Small NAI posts: 23 (colorblind), 40 (Joking around with Zyla), 69 and 82-83(no lim bad),
35: A very early hero solve which is fairly common from what I’ve seen, on T3 and Val
38: Val encourages the hero solve with a slightly joking tone, and James casts shade on Val in a confusing way but notes it’s still RVS (I think this was all a genuine misunderstanding,
but could be OMGUS even if it was a genuine misinterpretation
)
39: Immediately says he’s satisfied with his vote on Val, apparently a bit of a contradiction
64: Still happy with vote on Val, no reason why
66: Val starts hinting at a SL on James in 65, and he says Val is hypocritical. This all appears to come from a misunderstanding that Val didn’t mean 36 in a lighthearted way.
85: A response to 72, which is Val’s initial case against James culminating in a vote. James said he didn’t want to post a wall, but just to really check that he responded to everything I am going to wall it.
Spoiler:
Val says:
In post 72, Val89 wrote:
My reason for dressing up an RVS vote in the amount of verbiage I did was to make sure there was at least something substantial to discuss. I thought between that, and "hi im new; hah your name suks vote: random" the former would at least give us all something to bite at from page 2, maybe draw out something to work with. I believe it has. As soon as it has, the RVS stage is done, right? We have something serious to discuss.
This isn’t explicitly addressed with a response but we get into the topic of the RVS hypocrisy wall thing below.
Val
In post 72, Val89 wrote:
You said the same in #38, and I addressed it in #42. I'm not following. I made a claim or suggestion about the scum team. So did you. I said I like that approach, and would like to encourage more of it. You somehow thought that stance was hypocritical. Perhaps I am misunderstand the meaning of the word, but hypocritical to me is engaging in behaviour you criticize others for.
I'll give you benefit of the doubt, I personally think
"as you can see, I am a fan of getting right to the heart of it, and your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see"
is pretty clear I wasn't leveling any sort of criticism and instead praising it, but I'll assume you took something in my tone as somehow sarcastic and I was in fact trying to direct some sort of veiled shade towards you.
James
In post 85, JamesTheNames wrote:
First of all addressing the hypocritical thing, we both did the same/or similar things, admittedly in different ways, saying a pair we could guess as a scum pair. Both were obviously not the most serious of things. You claimed somebody was essentially a strong scum read and voted someone else, which if taken seriously would mean you'd find them both hard scum, a scum pair, I said a page 2 prediction. You can argue over semantics whether that is serious or not or you can just take my word on it.
"and your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see" in post 36.
Considering town should be scum hunting, this clearly means you find something scummy about what I did, yet you did the same thing, ergo, hypocritical. Or at least this is how I interpreted it and still do.
Next.
You said you were praising it, that is disingenuous as far as I'm concerned.
This seems like all blown out over a disagreement over tone turning into a disagreement over content as a result.
Val
In post 42, Val89 wrote:
I should clarify, "your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see" was a serious statement. I like the fact you came out with a solve straight off the bat - and I was attempting to encourage more of it.
I can't, however, think for the life of me why you would read that and STILL believe I am somehow being disingenuous.
In fact, only one scenario makes sense - you are scum, and so hypersensitive to any sort of shade whatsoever that you read it where it isn't there
- and in fact, continue to do so when pointed out explicitly that it isn't.
I think anyone reading my ISO can see I've taken a consistent approach here. I make a rando solve, you make one, I say 'good on you, lets have more of that, and maybe have some more discussion about it'. I'm failing to see the hypocrisy.
James, directly responded to the bolded part:
In post 85, JamesTheNames wrote:do you not also see how far-fetched that is? Someone could misinterpret something or disagree with a statement you make ergo, they are bad at the game flailing scum
I’m
a little inclined to side with James on this specific point
– I think the crux of Val’s argument here is that the only way Val’s statement could be misinterpreted is maliciously, but I don’t think that’s true. We’ve had a lot of misunderstandings in this game so far.
Val comparing a prior James game
In post 72, Val89 wrote:
But in any case, lets compare and contrast your approach here with Town!James in the only completed game I have to look at, namely #2064. For context, you replaced into the game into a slot D1, and having read the thread you quickly postedthis list of reads, with justification for each.
Some of the stuff said here is very interesting -
In post 177, JamesTheNames wrote:my personal opinion is post length isn't indicative but can be a nod in a direction with enough context.
I happen to agree. I'll let others read how you opened your town game and compare it to this one, and see if that's context enough for them. It is for me.
In post 177, JamesTheNames wrote:
he may not enjoy walls, but a "why" wouldn't hurt to have. Meh.
In post 177, JamesTheNames wrote:
It appears he is actually bothered by certain people's post quality and relavance, annoyance at lack of content being created, I'm not very experienced but this just feels towny to me
I mean, its pretty clear that Town!James thinks that talking openly and honestly about your reads and votes, early and often, is pro-town behaviour and based almost all of his initial reads off some variation of that exact justification. You go ahead and, as town, make sure you include your own justification without prompting, from the open.
Yeah, I've seen enough now to convince myself I'm not falling in to OMGUS trap.
VOTE: JamesTheNames
James response:
In post 85, JamesTheNames wrote:You also go into reading my one previous game, I was pressured there for a while,
you can see how I responded there
if you really want to.
Next.
You quote from my one previous game on the site where I replaced in, and this is important to say and clarify, after, the RVS stage ended. There is a large difference in how serious page 1 and 2 are compared to 7 and 8. Not to mention, I've played one game on this site,
sure I was town and town won which is nice, but that doesn't mean I'm going to play the same way game 2.
Meta under bias, going in thinking that somebody is scum and going with a comb to find what could be deemed as scummy, isn't great. I personally don't think meta is a genuine reason to vote somebody ever but as I've said this is my second game.
It is true that replacing in is very different than starting from RVS, especially considering the exchange in this game was happening in the first 100 posts, relatively soon out of RVS
. I disagree with the extremity of James’s take on meta, in that I think it can be useful. I think the bolded part is a bit questionable, but I’ve also been considering trying different playstyles game-to-game so I don’t think it’s immediately damning.
because obviously we are going to let someone who went gone by this hammer -- and still have never addressed / said anything about my points or actually anyone's points.
alstro -- you just keep finding ways to keep stalling time and its honestly weird. you could still just be town doing this tho without intent for malicious actions to just stall around a hammer.
"With grandpa in the game the postcount goes up and up and up and up...." - T3
i do agree -- i did play bad as town as this game. and i learned a lot. i probably will be signing up for newbie quenues more often so i can adapt a playstyle that doesn't affect town's progression.
but i believe in town. i think a vote on me, james, zyla is good for day 1 just to progress.
i would hammer myself -- but someone did that in another open game and everyone got mad at them. so ill just wait a hammer on me.
"With grandpa in the game the postcount goes up and up and up and up...." - T3
