In post 564, Pavowski wrote:But I am also starting to think that either Luke or hectic could be scum with her. Luke's pulling back which is unlike him (too many games he said and I get that, but still) but he seems to be holding some sus on Marci which brings him back up some in my book. I don't love hectics push on me.
Scum knows I'm legit and could easily be trying to get Galron to shoot me here, add to that I've already said I'm not super confident in my reads. Maybe he wants me to get the gun and misfire.
Taking a more critical look at this slot from here on out.
This is kinda dodgy though. Lukewarm having "some sus" on marci pulls him up some in your books? How confident exactly are you on marci being scum for that to be the case?
The bolded feels a little off too, like you're trying to convince an audience of your suspicions
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:29 am
by Lukewarm
Hockey was my first scum read this game. Early on Hockey has sooo many lamist posts. It looked to me like Hockey wanted to look like he was here and active, so he was looking for things to comment on to sound townie
I hope u do this the entire game. These graphics are really good and im enjoying them
And like, every single one of those posts were on the first like 3 pages of the thread. So it just looked like he was coming in hard trying to look town and to make a buddy.
Hectic, what makes you sure that that was T3 slipping that hockey was town, and not t3 trying to chainsaw for his partner. Because he tried to call you scum for your read at the time
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:37 am
by Hectic
It felt like T3 actually believed Hockey being obvnewbtown. My theory is that it was an angle he took to get into the game with a foothold. Hockey was also appropriately weirded out by T3's whiteknighting in a few posts
I concur that 73 really pinged me at the time though. Art gives reads with Hockey as the biggest scumread, and he responds by complimenting the graphic without commenting on his position. It felt strange
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:38 am
by Hectic
Do you have any thoughts on Vulture and I's discussing regarding you, Lukewarm?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:42 am
by marcistar
In post 564, Pavowski wrote:Lot of back and forth since this morning. Just a quick check in for me at lunch here but I still think Marci is scum, and T3's defense of her earlier suggests to me that we've been on the right track there.
wow shocker scum still hating on me
how does it suggest its on the right track instead of some sort of mind game?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:42 am
by Lukewarm
In post 578, Hectic wrote:Do you have any thoughts on Vulture and I's discussing regarding you, Lukewarm?
I am kind of mulling it over. I still think you are town, but I want to do an iso dive on vulture. It feels like he has been "gunning" for me all game.
I will not apologize for the pun.
One concern I have there tho, is that if he is scum, and has been gunning for me, then I think that might mean that my reads are bad. Otherwise, why risk giving me the gun?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:47 am
by Vulture
The last part of that post is so fake. Lol.
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:48 am
by Lukewarm
Gunning might be a strong word. But I wanted the pun.
In post 175, Lukewarm wrote:I was serious when I said that I think that Not_Mafia is a good scum hunter. I have played several games with him, and his reads have been very accurate. But a lot of people like to ignore his reads because of his play style.
After the game aliensitter, where not_mafia had the entire scum team pegged day 1, and town still lost because people did not listen to him, I decided that I should start vocalizing his read accuracy in every game that we have together.
Which, I have.
See, these posts gross me out, even if it's a reply to my criticism.
In post 177, HockeyFan wrote:The whole set of interactions about Art's interactions are super ?? We have me(partially) and T3 defending luke and not agreeing with art's sr, and on the other hand we have Vulture apparently being to read Art's mind and intention for the SR? Makes no sense. Art/Vulture seems too level 1, but so does T3/Luke soo. Fwiw, I do think one of these pairs CAN exist, but not just because of these 2 posts
It's pretty obvious that Art thinks the same thing that I did in 150.
In post 537, Vulture wrote:Don’t tempt me with what I have tried to let go.
Earlier on, it did feel more like Luke wanted to convince me that he was genuine about how he was treating N_M which I still think was weird given the fact that if he was town he should have bit back or wondered more “huh, wonder why they’re saying this.”
Maybe he wasn’t worried because I was the only person who was saying it and N_M had already threaten to shoot me so he could have felt “in.” Meh.
There’s a lot of poking at people and saying things but it’s more about either being lighthearted or when I pushed at him, trying to convince me that I was interpreting him incorrectly. I don’t see why he isn’t with T3...
In post 545, Hectic wrote:marci was interacting and bouncing off Luke too much for S-S imo. Like I think it'd be a lot harder to use Luke as a focal point for scum!marci if he was also scum, it's work and harder to make look natural
Their interactions also didn't really look like theatre to me
I disagree honestly; with friends you can use the dynamic that you naturally have from being friends to override the alignment issues.
I have an easier time seeing (assuming Luke + Pav) Marci fit over Enchant... also the way she talked to me earlier too. And then didn’t talk to me.
Looking back through your iso, there is like a glimmer of a moment where you stop shading me around like 350 where started toying with the idea I could be town, but even then
In post 354, Vulture wrote:I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.
T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:01 am
by Vulture
So how is that shade if it has substance, and what about the parts where I thought you were town?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:03 am
by Vulture
Why are you framing it as shade? It’s expansive over everything in that iso of me but how is something like 277 shady when it’s a question for you...?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:05 am
by Lukewarm
That was the glimmer of a moment I mentioned.
I will concede that it was not the entire game that you were shading me, instead you changed it a little bit and started town reading me about the time Hectic swapped in and said I was town.
But then the moment Hectic showed doubt on me, you swooped back in.
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:06 am
by Vulture
It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:08 am
by Lukewarm
In post 588, Vulture wrote:Why are you framing it as shade? It’s expansive over everything in that iso of me but how is something like 277 shady when it’s a question for you...?
I am framing it as shade, because it feel deliberate. Like, literally every single time you mention me.
Like I said, you dropped calling me scummy in that 354 post, I think that that is the only post I found where you mention me that you entertain that I could be town, but even in that one you call me slimy..
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:11 am
by Lukewarm
In post 590, Vulture wrote:It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).
What "reasonable point" am I ignoring?
It looks to me like your whole iso on me boils down to the fact that I said NM was a good scum hunter, which is provably something that I have said in many games as town. And that is something that I responded to like day 1.
What point am I ignoring?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:12 am
by Lukewarm
Unless you mean I am ignoring the part where you are trying to tie me to your scum buddy?
In post 590, Vulture wrote:It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).
What "reasonable point" am I ignoring?
It looks to me like your whole iso on me boils down to the fact that I said NM was a good scum hunter, which is provably something that I have said in many games as town. And that is something that I responded to like day 1.
What point am I ignoring?
And like I said, it is an easy check to see if I really do talk about NM this way in other games, but you did not seem bothered to do it. Just settled into calling it slimy.
Spoiler: My last game with NM
In post 128, Lukewarm wrote:After playing like 4-ish games with Not_Mafia, I am against a Day 1 Not_Mafia elim, and generally suspicious of people who lean into eliming him Day 1 -- he is an easy miselim target / angle for the scum team to push. Plus,
I have also found him to be a pretty good scum hunter, and would like to see any pushes that he leans into
before I personally try to sort him.
In post 362, Lukewarm wrote:
I am pretty sure that you can talk about a "hypothetical cop" without it revealing anything
It is my understanding that NM is a very hard player to sort (and a cop on him would deal with this).
Also,
from my experience, when town!NM says "This is scum" he is right more often then not
- so, not having to second guess any pushes he decides to make seem ++town from my PoV
In post 590, Vulture wrote:It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).
What "reasonable point" am I ignoring?
It looks to me like your whole iso on me boils down to the fact that I said NM was a good scum hunter, which is provably something that I have said in many games as town. And that is something that I responded to like day 1.
What point am I ignoring?
This was a serious question that you seem to be ignoring...
What "reasonable points" are you saying that I am ignoring?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:32 am
by Lukewarm
In post 560, Hectic wrote:It's fun but probably not extremely productive, let's place our bets though
I reckon Pavowski + Enchant + Lukewarm
Marci + Vulture + Pav
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:33 am
by Toogeloo
I agree with all the points Luke made about Hockey, and I recall feeling like Hockey and T3 having really weird interactions early in the game. I believe the term I used was they were, "slobbin' each other's knobs."
Hockey is someone who shouldn't make it to endgame.
scum still hating on me 
