Mafiascum.net

In post 573, Postie wrote:CES remains my preference since the very sudden very strong commitment to a Wenna scumread once he was put on the chopping block feels out of character given his behaviour the rest of the game

I already thought she was slightly more suspicious than Nexus previously (but I thought Nexus seemed a more realistic execution, which seemed relevant given the circumstances) and then she tried to pass herself off as having been on the good side of the misexecution Yesterday. This feels pretty straightforward to me. Her claimed beliefs are in direct contradiction to what she said and to her actions Yesterday and these claims fit exactly in the narrative that scum had been pushing, that Menno was the bad execution and as the alternative I must have been the good execution.

Edited for term replacement - CDB

Postie, Cpol: as my two town reads. You both seem sure that Wenna is town and CES is scum, so I’ll defer to your read and vote for CES. Also somewhat to absolve myself of responsibility, lol. I was wrong Yesterday, and right now I feel more confident in you being town than I do in Wenna being scum. I’ve been wrong so far this game and maybe I’m continuing to be wrong even now but I’m doing my best. And if town need to vote together, and if I am right in you being town, if I can’t persuade you on Wenna then there is no point being stubborn. I’ve also been reluctant to vote for CES because I don’t have any strong read on him and I know he’ll be annoyed if we lose the game by incorrectly executing him. But that is a pretty lousy reason to be hesitant, and also the risk we all take in playing this game.

VOTE: CES

If you want to execute someone else instead I’ll follow, and if you want to execute me then that is your prerogative, although would sadly be a town loss.

PEdit: even without knowing that you are town or scum, I take some kind of comfort in us being on the same wavelength <3

I'm around enough that I can revote closer to deadline, not sure how I feel about that vote for now so trying to be safe

Fen, weren't you townreading CES? You realise we may lose if we screw up this execution, right?

What gave you the impression I was townreading Wenna?

Not sure, but you said your preferred execution is CES. We’ve got visitors this weekend so I’ve only been able to read the thread quickly, and someone said the deadline is tomorrow, so I’m basically trying to hand the decision and my vote to you.

Your sudden read/vote switch is giving me the heebie jeebies :(

Need another perspective someone else pls gimme your thoughts

Oh well, that's probably game over. Outside chance it's Fenchurch and Wenna but seems like Fen's drawing unnecessary attention to herself if so.

Anyway, I might as well make the point that I got out of bed to make. Let's look again at #338 and reason about it as explicitly as possible. Town!Wenna according to what she's said since thought Menno was town and thought I was suspicious. Her vote is currently uselessly on Postie, she notes the vote is tied at 4-4 with a decision to make. It seems to me that the course of action is beyond obvious - you vote for me. It is an important decision and she's claimed some reticence about forum mafia but there's a difference between being reticent and just not playing the game. (I also normally think of Wenna as being fairly confident. There's no reason to defer to Porochaz.)

Contrast to what this looks like as scum!Wenna: the Day was going great up until now with only townies up for execution but now it's 4-4 and the game does actually need her vote. It's suddenly a terrible bind because if she takes the obvious course of action, there's a very good chance it's the deciding vote, she's inherently going to be on the "wrong" side and going to attract further scrutiny due to her decisive role. Of course scum!Wenna prefers not to place a vote here.

Who do you think would be partnering Wenna, CES? Can we get to some common ground there?

You're making me waiver here CES, but that point you have just made is an actual twisting of Wenna's words. She said she would hammer if the vote were at 5/6 on either side. She'd already said she was going to delay the decision. The vote is at 4/6, so had no intention of voting at that stage. If she had voted, she'd be going back on her previous word.

You could argue that this stance is still one that scum would take, knowing that two townies are lined up and wanting the majority to make the decision so you are blameless - I agree, but you can also argue that a townie could end up in this position.

Do you not think there is any chance that you are wrong on Wenna? There could up to another two scum out there.

Probably not going to get another chance to vote today now, so...

VOTE: Fenchurch

If it were either of CES or Wenna, at this point I could see either of them them buddied with Fenchurch.

The other option is we've been left to all argue among ourselves whilst the scum lurk and let us implode (implying the scum are somewhere in Nexus, Primate, Wenna & Poro), but I don't think that has happened. I firmly believe there are enough competent and experienced players in the non-lurker group that we'd never have made it into this mess in the first place if that were true.

So, Fenchurch fits that profile and has some questionable moments, and this let's us talk about CES and Wenna even more tomorrow if we are right, which sounds just....yah.

I'm going to review properly after we've played arkham in about 30mins but I'll be around until deadline after that. I still think Wenna is a better bet but I prefer fenchurch to CES right now.

Well, that’s a shame. I was trying to feel less responsible for losing us the game, but I guess I just made it worse.

In post 587, Fenchurch wrote:Well, that’s a shame. I was trying to feel less responsible for losing us the game, but I guess I just made it worse.

What an AtE.

Maybe you are scum.

Can we get a vote count moderator D

22 hours from now. I guess I'll be around in the evening, but I won't be around close to deadline Monday morning.

Not sure what benefit we have to delaying and delaying.

I would be happy to switch the Fenchurch, but really it's Postie/Primate who we want to make the decision.

In post 584, cpol wrote:She said she would hammer if the vote were at 5/6 on either side. She'd already said she was going to delay the decision. The vote is at 4/6, so had no intention of voting at that stage. If she had voted, she'd be going back on her previous word.

Yes, it was nothing to do with blame or appearances. I didn't want to execute town. We had also not really talked about any other possibilities. I had hoped players would analyse elsewhere, e.g. Fenchurch. So I didn't want to vote on a player I was reading townish (Menno) or that I did not have the strongest baddy read on at the time (CES), possibly pushing Poro to follow suit. So I was waiting for a shift in consensus from other players or for Poro's vote. I wanted to get some information on what Poro would do, being as they hadn't been very active, not just defer to them. There were two other players I'd have rather voted on. I fully intended to go with the consensus as I said, but the Menno vote surprised me.

CES and Fenchurch are continuing to look like baddies to me. If we execute one of them correctly today I think we need to think about who could be their third, because I think they're a pair.

*the Menno self-vote surprised me

I will be around near deadline
Andy where are you

I'm inclined against delaying generally. I get that it doesn't lose us much here but I've generally been of the feeling that if you do it then the scum just kill the person who is most correct, then you have to proceed another day without their input.

Assuming wenna is a no-go, which I'm doing at this point.

UNVOTE: Wenna
VOTE: Fenchurch

The reason I think Fenchurch over CES is
1. CES trying to actually query menno's motives d2.
2. I think Cpol's point about Fenchurch's claim not matching d1 initial post is shaky but valid.
3. I think Fenchurch's Nexus vote is odd.

Well, I sure hope Fen is scum cause if not I assume a quickhammer is incoming

I take it you are just willing to do CES or Fen? (I think we'd struggle to get anyone else but I'll give it a go if you've got a better shout)

Yeah, CES or Fen
Don't think I'd go anywhere else
Not sure which I prefer atm because I'm still mulling over Fen's vote switch