Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:36 pm
So I was thinking about the game last night (by which I mean, I literally was brainstorming this game in my sleep and it continued into this morning; I literally woke up this morning due to a potential breakthrough) and while I second-guessed a lot of my thoughts. "Pooky has to be clear", "Milo might be clear", sometimes the opposites, etc.
But ultimately, while I continue to have second-guessing going on, it led me to overall this:
VOTE: DKKoba
From play-wise it's a mess but mechanically-speaking, the thought I had was that Pooky basically can't be scum mechanically.
Now, granted!
What I really would like is if we had a Pokemon flavor expert around--the scum have fakeclaims. Which means that there are scum pokemon that are, flavor-wise, scumclaims and cannot be truthfully claimed. In other words, the pokemon are definitely scum pokemon.
...But the inverse should be true as well. If there are pokemon that are definitely 100% scum pokemon, then it figures that there are pokemon that are definitely 100% town pokemon. And while scum have safeclaims so it's hard to tell if a claimed pokemon is real, in the case of Pooky, there really is only one pokemon he realistically could be.
I should probably double-check any/all scum's isos to see how many of them claimed and what they claimed to see how closely their fakeclaims match their real role, but I'm fairly certain that Pooky, mechanically, is basically a mason here.
In terms of certainty, I'd say ~75% here is what I mean by "fairly certain". It's not a surefire thing, because I've not done the research to confirm it. But if it is, then that'd narrow the pool down to Milobird and DKKoba.
Milobird's role is possible to be scum or a scum fakeclaim, especially if the mod error was "you're not multitasking so you shouldn't have gotten a result while killing", but the nature of the mod error makes it slightly more likely to be town in my opinion. It's not as surefire of a thing, but there was more that tipped me in the scales here; small inconsistencies in DKKoba's claim.
Now, granted. Said inconsistencies are really really small, probably nitpicking, and I can think of reasonable justifications for them. But I've been giving those justifications for them without giving any thought to the other explanation (that the inconsistencies are due to the claim not being from town).
DKKoba allegedly thought that they stopped the scum kill N3 from the scum targeting them N2--but how would DKKoba have thought that? DKKoba wasn't targeted by the scum kill, and even if they were, they'd have died from the scum nightkill on N2 right then and there.
Keep in mind also that scum are not multitasking by default--so what scum would target DKKoba N2 and then forgo their night action N3 to do a nightkill? I can't really think of any aside from knowing one it cannot be; a scum rolecop would know not to make the attempt.
Then there's the decision to self-target N2 anyway. At the time of N2, we had Firebringer claimed as an investigative, SirCakez as a claimed innocent, and Dwlee as basically a hard-claimed protective role (now granted, Dwlee was scum, but if DKKoba was town, they wouldn't have known DKKoba was scum).
Not wanting to roleblock a protective role is maybe excusable, but ironically, not protecting Dwlee actually feels like scum knowledge. (Granted, this is perhaps biased by my thought process. *I* protected the claimed protective role for basically the reason I am outlining; I didn't want to double-up on protecting a slot.) Why the self-target when DKKoba already discarded their self-protect in order to evolve in the first place? If DKKoba wanted to eat up scum night actions, they didn't need to evolve and do so with their new role.
The other inconsistency has to do with their view on protecting players. Yesterday, they said they couldn't stop kills anymore, but there was in fact a way for that to happen. Today, they said they CAN, but while it's theoretically possible, it'd require the scum to basically gamethrow. Per DKKoba's claim of being unable to target the same player twice in a row, and per DKKoba's last protection having been SirCakez, SirCakez is wide open for the scum. (I didn't want to say this while not wanting to eliminate DKKoba because obviously, spelling out the route scum take to get the best nightkills isn't a good idea because if the scum didn't figure it out, they could still be caught by it.)
The route for us getting another killstop was actually the scum killing SirCakez last night, as that'd mean DKKoba could protect either Malakittens or MathBlade tonight, but that didn't happen. The scum took the route that would guarantee the kill could succeed. Now, that doesn't hard-implicate DKKoba as it could be scum respecting the chance for a stopped kill, but...
Overall I think this is the correct move.
There IS an asterisks to this, obviously. Which I intend to investigate. (That being, interactions. Such as with Dwlee actually.)
So I'm not going to push through a DKKoba elimination yet.
But I'll move my vote there.
But ultimately, while I continue to have second-guessing going on, it led me to overall this:
VOTE: DKKoba
From play-wise it's a mess but mechanically-speaking, the thought I had was that Pooky basically can't be scum mechanically.
Now, granted!
What I really would like is if we had a Pokemon flavor expert around--the scum have fakeclaims. Which means that there are scum pokemon that are, flavor-wise, scumclaims and cannot be truthfully claimed. In other words, the pokemon are definitely scum pokemon.
...But the inverse should be true as well. If there are pokemon that are definitely 100% scum pokemon, then it figures that there are pokemon that are definitely 100% town pokemon. And while scum have safeclaims so it's hard to tell if a claimed pokemon is real, in the case of Pooky, there really is only one pokemon he realistically could be.
I should probably double-check any/all scum's isos to see how many of them claimed and what they claimed to see how closely their fakeclaims match their real role, but I'm fairly certain that Pooky, mechanically, is basically a mason here.
In terms of certainty, I'd say ~75% here is what I mean by "fairly certain". It's not a surefire thing, because I've not done the research to confirm it. But if it is, then that'd narrow the pool down to Milobird and DKKoba.
Milobird's role is possible to be scum or a scum fakeclaim, especially if the mod error was "you're not multitasking so you shouldn't have gotten a result while killing", but the nature of the mod error makes it slightly more likely to be town in my opinion. It's not as surefire of a thing, but there was more that tipped me in the scales here; small inconsistencies in DKKoba's claim.
Now, granted. Said inconsistencies are really really small, probably nitpicking, and I can think of reasonable justifications for them. But I've been giving those justifications for them without giving any thought to the other explanation (that the inconsistencies are due to the claim not being from town).
DKKoba allegedly thought that they stopped the scum kill N3 from the scum targeting them N2--but how would DKKoba have thought that? DKKoba wasn't targeted by the scum kill, and even if they were, they'd have died from the scum nightkill on N2 right then and there.
Keep in mind also that scum are not multitasking by default--so what scum would target DKKoba N2 and then forgo their night action N3 to do a nightkill? I can't really think of any aside from knowing one it cannot be; a scum rolecop would know not to make the attempt.
Then there's the decision to self-target N2 anyway. At the time of N2, we had Firebringer claimed as an investigative, SirCakez as a claimed innocent, and Dwlee as basically a hard-claimed protective role (now granted, Dwlee was scum, but if DKKoba was town, they wouldn't have known DKKoba was scum).
Not wanting to roleblock a protective role is maybe excusable, but ironically, not protecting Dwlee actually feels like scum knowledge. (Granted, this is perhaps biased by my thought process. *I* protected the claimed protective role for basically the reason I am outlining; I didn't want to double-up on protecting a slot.) Why the self-target when DKKoba already discarded their self-protect in order to evolve in the first place? If DKKoba wanted to eat up scum night actions, they didn't need to evolve and do so with their new role.
The other inconsistency has to do with their view on protecting players. Yesterday, they said they couldn't stop kills anymore, but there was in fact a way for that to happen. Today, they said they CAN, but while it's theoretically possible, it'd require the scum to basically gamethrow. Per DKKoba's claim of being unable to target the same player twice in a row, and per DKKoba's last protection having been SirCakez, SirCakez is wide open for the scum. (I didn't want to say this while not wanting to eliminate DKKoba because obviously, spelling out the route scum take to get the best nightkills isn't a good idea because if the scum didn't figure it out, they could still be caught by it.)
The route for us getting another killstop was actually the scum killing SirCakez last night, as that'd mean DKKoba could protect either Malakittens or MathBlade tonight, but that didn't happen. The scum took the route that would guarantee the kill could succeed. Now, that doesn't hard-implicate DKKoba as it could be scum respecting the chance for a stopped kill, but...
Overall I think this is the correct move.
There IS an asterisks to this, obviously. Which I intend to investigate. (That being, interactions. Such as with Dwlee actually.)
So I'm not going to push through a DKKoba elimination yet.
But I'll move my vote there.
gotta say wifom lolzzzz