DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Ojando's target is the most credible one.

Protecting FrogDodging is a little iffy.

Not providing screenshots, is very iffy.

I'm willing to lynch FrogDodging.

[Ojando]

FD, seriously, get on with finishing the claim already. We have deadline on Saturday. You've been at least 3 times on the forum since your last post here and giving timings of the claimed protections should take two minutes.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Did someone say deadline?

The deadline for day 6 (start of twilight) is:

August, 15, 05:59 GMT, as measured from the clock in my secret bunker - which should be about 50 hours from now.

So far, no one is voting anyone else.

[Frog Dodging]

What I'm suspicious of: You checked nyb's targets earlier and commented on their convenience, and also specifically commented on one player in nyb's photoshopping etc. abilities. Which means you definitely looked at their protection receipts, which means you know all you have to do to find out whomever you targeted is look at your own protection receipts, and are now posting from your hydra account. Yet you are apparently still unsure of the timing of your targets?

Do you still intend not to post screenshots even while the other two claimed doctors have?

I think I've still got some stuff to respond to, I'll do that soon

May 26 and Jun 01 were the dates on my protections.

I will post screenshots if people demand that I post screenshots, but I feel that it shows nothing.

[ortolan]

I'd like some screenshots while you're about

there's only 50 hours to deadline after all

[Ojando]

May 26 and Jun 1? There's 5 days between those dates, both would be for the same phase, did you mean July 1 or what?

[Frog Dodging]

Jun 2. IIRC that was the end of one phase and start of the second, you might want to check. We might've spaced it and sent in two protects for the same phase accidentally, too.

First protect - http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass1.jpg
Second protect - http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass2.jpg
Third protect - http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass3.jpg

The following three are screenshots of a list of every program I have on this computer, showing that I have no good way of manipulating the prior screenshots:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass4.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass5.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass6.jpg

[ortolan]

how about role pm? ~

[Ojando]

Jun 2. IIRC that was the end of one phase and start of the second, you might want to check. We might've spaced it and sent in two protects for the same phase accidentally, too.

No, July 2.
You told the dates of the receipts. First and second are clearly for day 1-2 and day 3 respectively.
I'm very interested in the date of the third protection, when did you

send

it in? July 1?

[Frog Dodging]

Right, July. Can't read. No, it was sent in on the 2nd.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... etass7.jpg

[Ojando]

So the various doc target claims are:

Day 1-2 RW: FD, Ojando: Yosariwen, nyball: FD, FD: Yosariwen
Day 3 RW:PtA, Ojando: PtA, nyball: FD
Day 4 Ojando: PtA NO KILL
Day 5 Ojando: PtA, nyball :FD, FD: Ojando NO KILL
Day 6 Ojando: not telling, nyball: FD

July 2nd is in the early day 4, which means it would only take effect in day 5 (docs submit protection always for next phase).
Which means we are the only doc that could have been protecting in day 4, and there was no kill that day.
This validates us and PtA.
At the moment I'm more suspicious of nyball than Frog, because his claim including no action for day 4 seems more accidental.

[Jahudo]

I'll try to be back tomorrow night too because I realize this is deadline and free internet in the hotel is free.

I don't see anything odd in the new screencaps.
I'd prefer a nyball lynch. Its partially for his hop on RW without preparing a protection even though he was trying to end the day with his vote, and partially because it looks like ojando could have been responsible for the first blocked kill.

I haven't talked with K-Scope, but I'll vote now.

vote: nyball

[Ortohoops]

4 Doctors?

Seeing as we're divided between doctor and vanilla claims I'm inclined to think scum wouldn't have put all their eggs in one basket and would have one doctor and one vanilla (although depending on whether any specific claimed-doctor is scum this might not have been obvious play because they didn't know how many doctors were going to claim.) Ojando

did

claim doctor first but that was only after I'd made the statement "you are either scum or the doctor". I'm not sure about nyb and Frog Dodging. That said none of their role PMs look obviously doctored This is complicated by the fact only Frog Dodging's role pm is in the same format as ours as the other two were replacees. The fact they all provided protection receipts I think pretty much guarantees they are doctors of some variety, although one could very very plausibly be a mafia doctor.

I don't like using this as a tell but the gap between 603 and 606 by Frod Dodging of 18 minutes versus the gap after the requested role pm screenshot was far more substantial. Meh. If I'm onto something this would imply Frog Dodging is a mafia doctor, but I'm not sure if this is even valid at all.

[Ortohoops]

Ojando, why did you not consider protecting Yosariwen during action phase 1 (for action phase 2)?

Also why are the inbox and sentbox links in your 589 now "permission denied"?

Also I don't get why nyb protecting Frog Dodging is meant to be scummy. I may very well have done so and Ojando has stated they considered protecting him also.

I'm not so sure I buy that. In the post where you suggest ojando is doc or scum you don't say anything else about them. You mostly interact with me there. You just say that one comment/line in that one post about them and that is how it was simular to what nuwen said in the alpha game.

I was shocked by the scumminess of the comment.

[Ortohoops]

can I see a summary of the case on nyb from one of you zealous people please? sorry for triple-posting.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

vote: Frog Dodging

- not showing proof like the others.

One doctor has got to be scum.

[Ojando]

Ojando, why did you not consider protecting Yosariwen during action phase 1 (for action phase 2)?

We didn't feel having as good a read on their alignment as others. Frog gave more town vibes judging from content at that point, PtA looked most unlikely scum due to hard facts of relation with known mafia+flipped sks.
You yourself were one of the people voicing suspicion for Yos during first phase, btw.

Also why are the inbox and sentbox links in your 589 now "permission denied"?

I put a new link in 593 for sentbox, that also doesn't work? Not sure what I messed up on the original one. Inbox works fine for me, I can upload a new link if you confirm it really doesn't work for you.

--- --- ---

From iso-check, seems Shanba clearly breadcrumbed on day 5 having protected Ojando for day 4.
That is not correct; in fact jdodge's claim states them protecting us for day 5.
(I found these breadcrumbs on day 5 from him:)

However, since any doc would have interesting information to share with the town, he really ought to be breadcrumbing yesterdays protection target.

Getting about halfway through this has so far reinforced my positions. In particular, I am p. certain that Ojando is town, and fairly certain that ZB is town. I am therefore looking for scum from the Ortohoops/PTA/J-Scope/nyballs.

I do not think Ojando is scum. I also think it is unlikely that ZB is scum; I am often getting pro-town vibes off them.

My suspect list goes as follows: nyballs, J-scope, PTa, ortohoops, the rest of you pro-town bastards.

I didn't really get much on ortohoops. They stayed more or less anonymous in my mind, as I basically skipped the large walls of text, so I lost their argument with Yosiwen. My gut there is town, but it's the sort of gut feeling that normally presages being violently sick, so I wouldn't put too much trust in it.

I would really want to be able to hear the reasons behind their claimed targets.
I'm not sure how Shanba would have messed up in his head in which day he protected us. It could be an elaborate preparation for a fake claim, plan left for jdodge who somewhat ruined it by obviously not really caring about this game. Or an honest mistake, albeit a big one, in confirming someone based on false information.

Either way, I think a fakeclaimer would not have liked to leave day 4 everyone surviving to be accounted only by us, and in nyball's claim this was clearly accidental. In jdodge's claim this was either due to being honest or due to not caring.
I'm having some trouble believing in 4 docs existance.
Nyball is the less believable figure between them.

vote: nyballosulgniirkps

[PokerFace]

I can see Ojando's inbox picture just fine in 589. Not sure why you can't orto. Their sentbox was only one to give permission denied for me and the one they posted later looks fine. I perfer photobucket over imageshack when I upload things. When first kill got blocked only Ojando could have stopped it so I ain't voting them.

On one hand we got frog dodging who has been townish throughout the game but was rather sketchy with how they claimed and when they gave pics. Shanba said earlier that a doctor should crumb any results they have. Him being doc while suggesting others should crumb is a little odd. You think he wouldn't need to suggest it if he was one himself. That kinda seems contradictorary

@JDodge,

do you know if Shanba did crumb any results anywhere?

On the other hand we got nyball who has been relatively scummy but claimed more apropriatly.

Yes, either mistake is possible. The question is: which one is more likely? You seemed to draw the conclusion that the mistake as scum is the only one that makes any sense. There's nothing in those shots that contradicts a doctor claim.

Also you say you could fake it and then say your drive went dead and you don't have the software. Which is it, can you do it now or not?

By 'could', I am talking about ability, not being in a position to do it.

In truth I wouldn't expect you to make either mistake. If you were scum I wouldn't expect you to forget to fake one and label wrong. If you were town I wouldn't expect you to miss a phase and think you had covered and been active each one.

Frog dodge mentions V/la at the time of there first forget and then shanba mentions he is leaving and jdodge arrives late with the second forget. You, nyball were on RW's wagon that day so I guess I need to see if you were anywhere else on the site back then to asertain how logical j-scopes acusation is there.

When I compare the level of the mistake as town to the mistake as scum the town one comes off as being a bigger mistake because you said you didn't realize you had missed a phase until I pointed it out. Town mistake would mean you have been wrong since the day your forgot to send to the day I pointed it out while scum mistake means you were wrong just when you gave your claim. Its easier to make a little mistake instead of a big one for that long. You have gone on to this point in the game not realizing it and posted your screens labeling them in the order you believed was right in hopes of using the screens to catch scum.

I am going to think about this a little more. See if can reach tajo and see what he thinks. My lunch break needs to be longer at work but I should be around and able to post at deadline and or vote once I'm off work.

Edit while previewing: I ain't read Ojando's most recent post and my break is about to end so I'll catch it later

[nyballosulgniirkps]

Vote: Frog Dodging

, because (A) I am not scum, and (B), they stalled when asked to complete their claim.

[Frog Dodging]

From iso-check, seems Shanba clearly breadcrumbed on day 5 having protected Ojando for day 4.

Wrong, we'd been in agreement for a good long while that Ojando was almost certainly town; hence the Day 4 protect. You're making a connection that I don't think was there.

, because (A) I am not scum, and (B), they stalled when asked to complete their claim

Yep. I clearly stalled by providing the times in my next post after they were asked for, and I clearly stalled by providing screenshots when they were asked for by people other than you.

As per our ongoing suspicion through most of the game (or at least my ongoing suspicion, Shanba didn't share the same amount of zeal for it I have), I am plenty happy to place the vote on my longtime #1 suspect with a good ol

vote: nyball

.

@JDodge, do you know if Shanba did crumb any results anywhere?

I honestly don't know. All we ever discussed was everyone else, not our own posting.

Shanba said earlier that a doctor should crumb any results they have. Him being doc while suggesting others should crumb is a little odd. You think he wouldn't need to suggest it if he was one himself. That kinda seems contradictorary

1. We weren't the only trackers in alpha, we knew there could be more than one doc

2. It makes sense for a doc to try to find another doc, as this way we can protect them plus it allows us to cast less doubt on claims later.

Let the record state that my current suspect list consists of nyball, followed by J-Scope whom I've noticed is completely absent from this pivotal bit, and then a lingering suspicion of PtA that's nibbled at my shins since Day 1. I am about to send in a protect for Ojando, and hope that they will do the same to save us and hopefully set up an infinite protect circle up in this bitch.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Well I thought and thought. I talked to Tajo and he pointed out to me that nyballs has been on more wagons of non-latvians than Frogdodging throughout the game.

Apples and Banana: 6 :

sex w/ shafteds wife club

, Ortohoops,

Trotsky

, Death the Hogfather,

Incamnito

,

Raging Wishbone

,
PoketheAlpaca: 2:

Yosariwen

, Frog Dodging,
Ortohoops: 2 :

Zmd, Apples and Banana

Trotsky: 1 :PoketheAlpaca
Death the Hogfather: 1 :Zaphod Beeblebrox,
Zmd: 1 :J-Scope,

not voting: 1 :nyballosulgniirkps,

while 14 players are alive, 8 votes will lynch

Apples and Banana: 8 :

sex w/ shafteds wife club

, Ortohoops,

Trotsky

, Death the Hogfather,

Incamnito

,

Raging Wishbone

, Zaphod, Jscope.
PoketheAlpaca: 2: Yosariwen, Frog Dodging,
Ortohoops: 2 :Zmd, Apples and Banana
Trotsky: 1 :PoketheAlpaca

not voting: 1 :nyballosulgniirkps,

while 14 players are alive, 8 votes will lynch

Raging Wishbone: 4 :

Yosariwen

, nyballosulgniirkps, Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope
Zaphod Beeblebrox: 2 :Trotsky, Ojando
PoketheAlpaca: 1 :Ortohoops,
Frog Dodging 1 :J-Scope,
Trotsky: 1 :Zmd,
Ortohoops: 1 :PoketheAlpaca
zmd: 1 :Frog Dodging,
J-Scope: 1 :Raging Wishbone

not voting: 0 :
while 11 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

Trotsky: 6 :

Zmd

, Ortohoops, Frog Dodging,

Raging Wishbone

, nyballosulgniirkps, PoketheAlpaca
Raging Wishbone: 3 :Yosariwen, , Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope
Zaphod Beeblebrox: 2 :Trotsky, Ojando

not voting: 0 :
while 11 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

Raging Wishbone: 5 :Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope,

Zmd

, nyballosulgniirkps, Ojando
Zmd: 2 :Frog Dodging, Ortohoops,
J-Scope: 1 :

Raging Wishbone

not voting: 1 :PoketheAlpaca,

while 9 players are alive, 5 votes will lynch

Zmd: 5 :Ortohoops, Frog Dodging, nyballosulgniirkps, PoketheAlpaca, J-Scope
J-Scope: 1 :Zmd,

not voting: 2 :Ojando, Zaphod Beeblebrox,

while 8 players are alive, 5 votes will lynch

Adding up

11. nyballosulgniirkps 4
13. J-Scope 4
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox 3
8. Ortohoops 3
5. Ojando 2
14. Frog Dodging 2

Ojando's recent post doesn't seem to make sence to me in few areas. If you thought that was a bad crumb or some claim miscomunication with jdodge and shanba then why did you vote nyball? I think they lost me somewhere. Also it looks more like FrogDodging(Shanba) was mentioning their reads and not who they were or had protected.

Also I think I may have found an answer to my question:

Shanba said earlier that a doctor should crumb any results they have. Him being doc while suggesting others should crumb is a little odd. You think he wouldn't need to suggest it if he was one himself. That kinda seems contradictorary

FD forgot to send a protect when the first kill was stopped. They weren't responsible for that save so them suggesting others crumb would make sence because they would want to know who this other doc protected.

There are 2 scum left and in review it looks like there are people starting to fall into camps. Orto point out that Nyball and J-scope seem like they could be conected. Jahudo's recent vote on nyballs was with his account and not j-scope so perhaps that and his recent comments are distancing to avoid being linked to them if nyballs goes down. Its either that or Orto ius trying to make j-scope look like nyballs partner when orto is himself. I still have some nagging orto suspicions on my mind from previous days and what I said then. Ojando seems to be falling into a camp with FD given FD's recent comments about them. I can't find a place before day 4 where FD called Ojando likly town. The possible confusion I see with Ojando's last post and vote could provide the other half of that link. Orto and Zaphod seemed to be on the same page with their reads of each other and how they both dislike FD's stalling. Of all those pairings only 1 has both a possible doc faker and a vanilla claimer.

Also in review of nyball's more recent comments here:

Yes, either mistake is possible. The question is: which one is more likely? You seemed to draw the conclusion that the mistake as scum is the only one that makes any sense. There's nothing in those shots that contradicts a doctor claim.

It is likly they presented screen shots in an attempt to clear themselves instead of an attempt to find scum. Basically they claim not to be able to fake it or have software so how were they intending on personally checking the screens and figuring out who might have faked if they didn't have the software?

I am hesitant to say that Ojando is lying after we saw three trackers last game, although three doctors and two trackers seems a bit overboard. I would like for him to provide similar screen shots, stat.

Were they just planning on having other players like myself, zaph, and j-scope do it and not look into it personally themselves?

I can see sence behind orto's wouldn't scum go after 2 different people idea. FD claimed to protect ojando at the time of the second save. If Ojando made one save and FD made the next that would mean me, ojando, and FD are town. Nyball claimed to have protected FD during the second save. If Ojando made the first save and nyball made the next then that would mean FD, nyball, and ojando are all town. That doesn't make sence. we can't have 4 docs so if scum did change targets it is more likly ojando and FD made each save respectivly.

When I compare nyball's overall play to FD's play I come to the conclusion nyballs is scumier so here we go.

Vote: nyballosulgniirkps

If they are scum its likly j-scope or orto is the last one. If nyball isn't scum then its likly I have been wrong about frogdodging and one of orto or Zaphod is with him.

[Ortohoops]

I am about to send in a protect for Ojando, and hope that they will do the same to save us and hopefully set up an infinite protect circle up in this bitch.

What do you see as being the benefit of this?

Vote: Frog Dodging

I support this lynch over nyb, it's up to Ojando

[Frog Dodging]

I am about to send in a protect for Ojando, and hope that they will do the same to save us and hopefully set up an infinite protect circle up in this bitch.

What do you see as being the benefit of this?

Vote: Frog Dodging

I support this lynch over nyb, it's up to Ojando

It's simple.

Either I or nyball is getting lynched today. That is a certainty.

Ojando is likely to not be lynched and in my eyes likely to be a doc, hence I feel it prudent to protect them. If they protect us, that then makes sure that both the docs are safe. This also has the effect of removing a non-doc town role from play, thus further allowing us a better decision-making process tomorrow.

Basically, I have faith in Ojando being town, and feel that it's smarter for us to protect each other and play to the town's strengths as opposed to playing to the town's nothing.

I feel that it's more likely there is only 1 lying doc claim in this bunch, and that it is nyball.

[Frog Dodging]

And it comes down to J-Scope, which really sucks balls because it means that we as a town have likely lost already. Hooray!

[J-Scope]

I'm here and trying to figure out how much time we have left today.

Orto asked what the nyballs case was. For me:
1. Four town docs does not sound plausible.
2. Ojando was the one to have a protection on somebody the first time there was no kill, so its likely he stopped it.
3. Frog has seemed more town throughout the game than nyballs. Why? Alot of it was the way they commented on alot of bits of people's posts without censorship, like they weren't worried about burning bridges. I could post examples but I've seen it from them most of the game and I like my read on that behavior as town.

And nyball I didn't feel was that townish or scummish until finding out he skipped a protection on that one action phase, but he had contributed to getting there. So yeah, more process of elimination.