Mini 780 - Chosen - Game over
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- Lord Gurgi
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So you're saying that if Jahudo is Chosen One, I am town, you are scum.
That's:
G O J
J G O
O J G
Freaking wonderful. So from my perspective, I want to lynch you, like I said before, Jahudo wants to lynch me, and you want to lynch Jahudo.
That's:
G O J
J G O
O J G
Freaking wonderful. So from my perspective, I want to lynch you, like I said before, Jahudo wants to lynch me, and you want to lynch Jahudo.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Nuwen the prophet?Nuwen wrote:The three players I addressed (Acemarksman, hp [leaves], Lawrencelot) were the three that OMGUS'd. Their opinions on tells were most relevant - because at least one is town, I'm really interested in which town player believes singularly anti-town behavior is optimal.
Next post:ekiM wrote:As for who I am suspicious of at the moment, I can't decide who is right out of Nuwen or q21, and I dont' see what that discussion is getting us. Right now I am more interested in making sure everyone is involved in the thread, both so that they can help scumhunt if they are town, and so that scum aren't allowed to lurk. The person who has contributed least so far is hp [leaves], and I'm mildly suspicious of him for it. So,
unvote; vote hp [leaves]
Literally, FoSing him for not voting hp.ekiM wrote:Ace, responding to "Give me names of who is lurking scum" with "The theory discussion is a null tell" is a complete non sequitur. Then when asked again you say the question is pointless. Evasiveness is scummy.FoS:AceMarksman.
If you actually believe that some players are lurking scum, why not name them? Why aren't you voting for them? If you don't actually think that, why did you say it?
If you had genuinely read the thread and looked for lurkers, there is no way you would not have noticed hp. hp's posts so far:
7: Random vote.
15: Random OMGUS vote.
33: Three word post responding to questions.
65: "I agree that a lynch is better than no lynch."
Four posts, none of which have any content at all, in nearly six days. Blatantly non-interactive. Yet when asked to name someone you suspect for lurking, you got nothing. Doesn't add up.
2 posts later:
Onto Ace.ekiM wrote:Welcome, tajo!
Ugh, so hp has spent a week being completely useless and is now V/LA for another week. That's two thirds of D1 with no contribution or interaction. I don't like this situation at all, but I don't think we're gonna be lynching him for it.Unvote
[snip]
Vote: AceMarksman
Two posts later back onto hp.ekiM wrote:You've never responded to me at all this game. Not liking that much.AceMarksman wrote:ekiM: THE FREAKING DISCUSSION IS OVER! I also felt that it was over when I voted those who I voted.
That's really all you have to contribute after a week away? Wow.hp wrote:Trying to misinterpret. Nothing major but scum use this all the time. Going with my gut here.
Unvote, Vote populartajo
Unvote; Vote hp [leaves]
He said like 4 things before he went V/LA, and when he came back he has a couple of lines.lawrence wrote:I disagree. V/LA is not a good reason to lynch someone. As long as he will address other things later, I don't see a problem (well it's a problem but probably not his fault).
Any reasons/examples? Not seeing it.Albert wrote:poptajo are playing like scum.
Doesn't actually leave hp. He puts someone at L-1 then asks for people not to hammer. It's a classic newbie setting up a hammer.ekiM wrote:Conclusions: Albert is coming across very townie in the last few pages. Tajo's responses have been pretty poor, but I could see them coming from either scum or frustrated town. I don't think there's enough time before deadline to make a good call on this one. Tajo could you link a couple of games where you have been scum?
I'm not sure how much I'll be on over the next couple of days, so I'm parking my vote on hp to make sure it's there for deadline. He's been looking scummy to me all game, and at this point he'd have to pull a dissertation out of his ass and post it to convince me that he'd be a bad lynch today. This does put him at L-1, so no hasty hammers please. We may as well use the time we have left.
Vote: hp [leaves]
If you read his posts, he puts his suspicion on hp, Ace, ABR, and Law. The only negative thing he has said about Law is that he voted with ABR while asking for more information. That kind of suspicion out of the nonexistent woodwork compounded with vote hopping as well as Ojanen not hammering me makes me think that Ojanen is the Chosen One and that I am the Vanilla Townie. However, given Jahudo's new position, I am more inclined to think that Ojanen is the proper lynch for us in this position. I doubt that Jahudo has the necessary balls to chase after someone who is not the Chosen One at this juncture if he is scum. Ojanen however is going after the only possible suspect she can have at this point since her claim to towniness is that she didn't hammer me when she had the opportunity. This is where I hit a roadblock, because I have to believe that one of your two priors was incompetent. Either they refused to hammer the Chosen One for reasons beyond my comprehension, or they refused any interest in the Chosen One day one for who knows what reason.
If you look at ekiM's posts following Law's lynch, there's a lot of him calling out Ace for baseless suspicion of Law, which is precisely what he spent the former day doing.
Updated.ekiM wrote:*Lawrencelot(5):spring,Nuwen,Claus,Tajo, ekiM
* hp [leaves] (5):spring,Nuwen,Lawrencelot,Claus, ekiM
No bussing here [/sarcasm]. He was on the lynch of a scum, and the failed wagon on me. Always at L-1, that is ridiculously incriminating. I find it hard to believe that the whole town was on Lawrencealot's wagon. It's simply ridiculous. Literally, that would require scumAce to be off smoking pot while the wagon on me failed, and the wagon on his partner took off.
I also love how Lawrencealot is in the good old fashioned third spot on the wagon, with ekiM on at L-1. This is textbook!
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Can I hear more about why/if you two think I am unlikely CO because ekiM was not suspected? Particularly where/how you think scum would create suspicion in the flow of the game? I don't think it would be possible without alot of attention on the fact, which would only make the scum huge targets if me-CO was lynched day 1.
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I’m still getting all the facts in order as I re-read everything, but I am putting priority into this game.
I still believe that I can be CO because scum can’t force a wagon on their own. If town didn’t believe ekiM was worthy of a wagon day 1, it could have been hard to make up something scummy. HP had his vague posting style and lurking, Ace had town suspecting him early on.
However, I think the scum would go after the CO as soon as they could in case the CO managed to be on the lynching wagon of a scum. So at the very least Law and the other scum would probably have a undefined gut suspicion on the CO just to lay the groundwork.
The only reason I can come up with is if CO dies day 1, the town will lynch everyone on his wagon assuming that both scum were on the wagon. That gives the town a good chance of winning assuming they lynch Ace first for the bad hammer.
But again Ace didn’t give a gut suspicion of HP. He says that the HP wagon looks opportunistic. That doesn’t make sense if its Ace-scum and HP-CO.
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My current feeling is Jahudo = CO / Ace = VT / LG = Scum
But if I had to pick Ace as scum, then I still look like a better CO because we don't know what Ace would have done with my player slot at L-1.
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I’m still getting all the facts in order as I re-read everything, but I am putting priority into this game.
I still believe that I can be CO because scum can’t force a wagon on their own. If town didn’t believe ekiM was worthy of a wagon day 1, it could have been hard to make up something scummy. HP had his vague posting style and lurking, Ace had town suspecting him early on.
However, I think the scum would go after the CO as soon as they could in case the CO managed to be on the lynching wagon of a scum. So at the very least Law and the other scum would probably have a undefined gut suspicion on the CO just to lay the groundwork.
It’s possible he did want to hammer, but thought he wasn’t in a good position to do so. If Ace hammered someone who flipped Chosen One, people would easily lynch Ace for not supporting the wagon earlier:Ace wrote:alright, if no one objects, I will hammer hp. While I feel that is a sub-par lynch, it is better than a no lynch. Any objections?
But that doesn’t explain for me why scum-Ace wouldn’t try and maneuver onto a hp-CO wagon that was fairly easy to join?Ace wrote:Also notice how the hp [leaves] wagon was the one with the most suport at the time. Is this possible pushing for a quicklynch? Note, he put hp [leaves] at L-2.
The only reason I can come up with is if CO dies day 1, the town will lynch everyone on his wagon assuming that both scum were on the wagon. That gives the town a good chance of winning assuming they lynch Ace first for the bad hammer.
But again Ace didn’t give a gut suspicion of HP. He says that the HP wagon looks opportunistic. That doesn’t make sense if its Ace-scum and HP-CO.
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My current feeling is Jahudo = CO / Ace = VT / LG = Scum
But if I had to pick Ace as scum, then I still look like a better CO because we don't know what Ace would have done with my player slot at L-1.
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Vote Count #3 of Day 4
Not voting (3) <-~ Ojanen, Jahudo, Lord Gurgi
With 3 living, 2 will do it.
Deadline (a little more than a week) wrote:
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
- Lord Gurgi
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Jahudo, anyone can generate evidence to incriminate anyone. This is mafia. ekiM, for whatever reason, was not suspected at all. For the mafia not to display any interest in the Chosen One is highly irregular.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
Have played with him before? How well do you know him?LG wrote:I doubt that Jahudo has the necessary balls to chase after someone who is not the Chosen One at this juncture if he is scum.
This isn't very accurate; the non-hammer is my claim to ruling me=scum, you=chosen out of the table also from you guys' perspective.LG wrote:Ojanen however is going after the only possible suspect she can have at this point since her claim to towniness is that she didn't hammer me when she had the opportunity.
Obviously, I find Mike to be very unlikely CO but if I was scum, my CO would have to be him.
LG, this sounds like you mixed up something.LG wrote: This is where I hit a roadblock, because I have to believe that one of your two priors was incompetent. Either they refused to hammer the Chosen One for reasons beyond my comprehension, or they refused any interest in the Chosen One day one for who knows what reason.
Both of the either/or's seem to refer to Ace=me.
Mike had bucketfuls of interest on both of you and me on day 1.
Interesting; however note the disrepancies to the actual voting wagons. Not all players pledged.LG wrote: No bussing here [/sarcasm]. He was on the lynch of a scum, and the failed wagon on me. Always at L-1, that is ridiculously incriminating. I find it hard to believe that the whole town was on Lawrencealot's wagon. It's simply ridiculous. Literally, that would require scumAce to be off smoking pot while the wagon on me failed, and the wagon on his partner took off.
This thing with everyone working from the assumption they are the Chosen One is a comical exercise.Jahudo wrote: My current feeling is Jahudo = CO / Ace = VT / LG = Scum
But if I had to pick Ace as scum, then I still look like a better CO because we don't know what Ace would have done with my player slot at L-1.
Jahudo, why does LG scum indicate you as the chosen one?
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The day 2 random vote is something that sticks out to me the most.Ojando wrote:Jahudo, why does LG scum indicate you as the chosen one?
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I would expect scum to place at least a gut suspicion on me/ekiM day one if I was the CO. Even if there wasn’t town interest in a ekiM wagon, it serves the purpose of putting the scum in a place to start a wagon if/when they find a legit reason to.
But I also strongly believe that scum would need to find that legit reason before they could convince the town to shift their own focus onto ekiM, since the town wasn’t suspecting ekiM.
I do not think HP is the type of player to scumhunt in that manner, because he prefers to latch onto someone else’s case. His post 149 supported ABR’s own feelings. HP’s non-vote opinions on players are incredibly vague and do not look at specific posts.
So if HP was scum and I was CO, I would expect him to give a vague gut suspicion and wait until someone provided a case.
The vague gut suspicion didn’t come until day 2 when he random voted ekiM for being on the Law wagon. This is the kind of move I’d expect to see, just a day earlier.
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I do have some second thoughts at calling myself CO. If I was, there should have been a gut suspicion somewhere day 1. I’m thinking if I can come up with a better explanation for LG scum, Ace CO , then I might be the best lynch choice.
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So, Jahudo, why didn't I lynch you, then? I had the choice but I steered the lynch to Nuwen.
I hope that we all learned some time ago that any player can find incriminating evidence on any other player. If it didn't work that way, we wouldn't be having this issue now. Your idea that they held off because ekiM did nothing suspicious is ludicrous.
I don't understand how you can actually defend that you weren't suspected day one by suspicion hitting you day two. That's called a townie waking up.
Why are you fixated on me being scum? If you are, why aren't you pushing to lynch me instead of yourself? Why should I believe that this isn't a ploy to build trust?
I hope that we all learned some time ago that any player can find incriminating evidence on any other player. If it didn't work that way, we wouldn't be having this issue now. Your idea that they held off because ekiM did nothing suspicious is ludicrous.
I don't understand how you can actually defend that you weren't suspected day one by suspicion hitting you day two. That's called a townie waking up.
Why are you fixated on me being scum? If you are, why aren't you pushing to lynch me instead of yourself? Why should I believe that this isn't a ploy to build trust?
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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HP wanted to lynch ekiM, but I do not have an answer for why you didn't hammer. You were given plenty of time to agree but you didn't.
jah town / LG scum / Ojan CO
jah CO / LG town / Ojan scum
I guess it doesn't matter which of the remaining options I think it most likely. Both say vote for LG
jah CO / LG scum / Ojan town
- because of the no hammerjah town / LG CO / Ojan scum
- because of the no hammerjah town / LG scum / Ojan CO
jah CO / LG town / Ojan scum
I guess it doesn't matter which of the remaining options I think it most likely. Both say vote for LG
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My gut says that doesn't matter very much that he didn't suspect, but I am concerned that no one gut suspected day 1. If anybody can find incriminating evidence on any player, then scum planned on both staying alive to day 2 or later and then lynch the CO.
This might actually help their chances of winning because if the CO was lynched day 1, the town would policy lynch people on the wagon until they caught both scum and starting on day 2 the town would have the opportunity to win that way.
The one alternative is that 1 scum leads the lynch on CO day 1 and the other is opposed to the wagon from the start. This is just speculation on the scum strategy though.
Is this all why you want my lynch? Is it why you aren't considering another lynch?
I still say LG is the safest bet. I don't have time right now to post my second choice. Tonight though.
This might actually help their chances of winning because if the CO was lynched day 1, the town would policy lynch people on the wagon until they caught both scum and starting on day 2 the town would have the opportunity to win that way.
The one alternative is that 1 scum leads the lynch on CO day 1 and the other is opposed to the wagon from the start. This is just speculation on the scum strategy though.
Is this all why you want my lynch? Is it why you aren't considering another lynch?
I still say LG is the safest bet. I don't have time right now to post my second choice. Tonight though.
Haha. No. You should read my posts.Jahudo wrote:Is this all why you want my lynch? Is it why you aren't considering another lynch?
Anyway, thanks, you gave me inspiration to reread a little and I now see no way that you're not scum.
Some of the reasons listed earlier include:
Day 1:
Law's attacks on Ace and hp are done somewhat in irregular but clearly discernable tandem with ekiM.
Limiting to view to alive people, Law attacks Ace and hp. ekiM attacks hp, Ace and hp. Ace attacks Law and keeps his vote from page 5 until hammer on him. hp hammers Law and doesn't attack Ace.
Ace doesn't hammer hp despite quite long chance.
hp doesn't hop on either bandwagon when Ace and Law are both L-2.
Mike's relationship with Law would be pretty natural for scumbuddies.
I'm not gonna write the same cases over and over again, here, have a couple of links from the deceased:
Nuwen 376
Tajo 414
New thoughts:
Day 2 was pretty short.
The lynchwagon on spring was for pretty stupid reasons.
There would be little motivation for scum to get a vanilla lynched quickly and substract their chances of getting rid of the chosen one.
Ace and hp were both on the spring wagon.
Ace does little else than suspect spring and some ABR.
Hp does cast the "random vote" on Mike when the thread is dead but really is mostly onto spring.
Also, Nuwen and Tajo are suspecting Mike. Ace doesn't comment Mike case anyhow and just votes Spring. After Tajo has brought cases against Nuwen, spring, Mike in 412-4 and has voted Mike, hp comes in and merely says that he wants spring lynched.
Real opportunistic.
Furthermore, Ace and hp don't express mutual suspicion.
Also, just remembered this, gentlemen, we have a lie right here underlined:
There were no encouraging noises at all as far I could see.Mike on D3 wrote:I've seen two things why I'm not the chosen one. Firstly that I didn't get voted D1 at all. This is silly, scum wouldn't go after the Chosen D1 if there was no case, and there wasn't. Secondly that nobody pushed for my lynch since then. Well, there's only one scum left and they can't make a lynch by themselves, so if there wasn't much to push on me they'd probably wait for someone else to suspect me, or for people to get the idea to lynch not-Chosens and use the lack of suspicion to paint me that way.I also note that hp "randomly" voted me early yesterday[day 2], and then made encouraging noises while Tajo was suspecting me...
Meanwhile, look at what Mike is doing:
348 attacks Ace, hp, and tajo. Tajo thinks Ace and hp are prob town.
361 attacks ace, hp
379 attacks hp, ace, questions tajo's case that finds ace town
382 "two top suspects are ace and hp"
406 "hp - Hammered when he was sure to die, could easily be bussing.
Ace - Looks like distancing early, possibly moving to Law's wagon was a planned bus which was then executed sloppily. Calling Albert + Law scum when Law was not in focus, and the "scumslip catch" after the hammer were weird."
417 votes and attacks hp
So:
The scum in Mike's opinion on day 2 is most likely in the 2 people who would have had to be double-bussing with law on day 1. Yes. That was his actual opinion.
Finally: Look at who gets nightkilled:
Tajo!
Tajo who wrote a case against Mike and even voted for him.
Tajo whose case was not taken advantage of by hp or Ace in the hypotethical case Mike was the CO.
Tajo would be a retarded nightkill if Mike was the CO.
Jahudo, you're scum.
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I only reread day 2 now and noticed Tajo. Shitty position to replace in for you, sorry for that.Jahudo wrote:Lol, I'm not sure why you needed me if you already knew these non-hammers and tajo NK left only one option. It sounds like you could have just voted while waiting for that replacement.
Jahudo wrote: The tajo thing makes alot of sense. I probably am just VT.
This is an admission of guilt.Jahudo wrote: Also I don't self-vote if I can help it. It's just principle.
vote: Jahudo
No harm in seeing his response, we weren't pressed for time.LG wrote:Ojanen, if you are so certain, why aren't you voting?
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You only just noticed the tajo connection now? That doesn't make sense because you've tossed out this quote three times now:
That is strange, but I don't see how it changes our setup.
And you've underlined that part about Tajo suspecting him back when ekiM was in the game. So why didn't you point out Tajo in the case before?ekiM wrote:I've seen two things why I'm not. Firstly that I didn't get voted D1 at all.This is silly, scum wouldn't go after the Chosen D1 if there was no case, and there wasn't.Secondly that nobody pushed for my lynch since then. Well, there's only one scum left and they can't make a lynch by themselves, so if there wasn't much to push on me they'd probably wait for someone else to suspect me, or for people to get the idea to lynch not-Chosens and use the lack of suspicion to paint me that way.I also note that hp "randomly" voted me early yesterday[day 2], and then made encouraging noises while Tajo was suspecting me...
That is strange, but I don't see how it changes our setup.