But there's never any reason for town not to answer a question or give a reason for their reads, AM I RIGHT?
This hypocrisy is making me reconsider my Jake read, but I still think that Bubba is a way better choice Day 1. I'm way more sure on Bubba than I think I ever will be on Jake.
The difference is I am saying they made a specific post Pre-game. Since they only made 2 it's reslly easy to find. You are claiming a super strong town read based on something and you won't even give a clue as to why. It's completely different. Give me a clue and I'll certainly try to find it. If you pulled it out of thin air, which is what I think you did, then your refusal to explain it is quite scummy
Posting on my iPod so this will be short.
If I give a clue I might as well just give you the tell, since the clue would be used by scum as well as town. On the other hand you have no reason to NOT point to the specific post and give your reasoning behind the read. You want others to pick a post and do your reasoning for you. That's not how it works. You made the read. Now support it.
This reads "I haven't made up a reason yet so I'll pretend I have a super secret reason".
Anyone reading the thread can read page 1 and after that they still have no çlue, I'd be happy to show them. You on the other hand have nothing to point us to which means you are pulling it out of your ass.
The only thing I saw mollie did was react to the suggestion the vig should claim, having played EM before with this setup it's sonething I agree with. It gurantees us a clear and leaves mafia trying to find the doc. Having a clear day 1 helps, not hurts town. See the game I just finished where I was conf. Town day 1.
But there's no way I'd but she's a vig cause she should have claimed like suggested, and I don't see anything else that looks like a legit tell.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:54 am
by Piratecat
This is in reply to 600. ^
You really are bad at trying to figure out Mollie from Mala. That was actually me(Mala) who responded to the vig claim.
Thought you didn't play EMP? Before the other MS and I only skimmed the game, but link me to the part where the DayVig claimed?
Also you don't know how I would play with a vig. In fact I
love
being a vig. So yeah if I was the vig I wouldn't have claimed even if the suggestion to claim was there. I have a hot shot record so vig is a good town tool if its in my hands.
What was he doing here? Putting presure on someone in RVS, I liked it too, to an extent. But it seems like a defense of fuzzy since fuzzy voted rmp as well and you want him to appear this way as well.
The reason I liked that post was that he didn't shy away from starting a wagon in RVS. The best way to get out of RVS, typically, is to put some pressure on people and see who squirms. The fact that he was willing to go right out there and wagon without reason is a good thing (at least at that stage in the game). Scum are more cautious in RVS because wagoning is often seen as scummy, so they try to avoid that. This is especially true for newer players.
In post 63, GuyInFreezer wrote:L-2 is actually pretty common for RVS wagon, because it builds enough pressure without the risk of lolderphammer.
Also, I'm terrible at reading sarcasm.
Yet again, GiF somewhat protecting fuzzy, and attacking rmp, so you like it.
Nope. I liked it because it was a good call-out of bad logic from rmp. It also reinforces that he purposefully voted before to increase pressure (i.e. he understood WHY it was a good idea as town to do what he did), which I like. It means he's thinking through actions and deliberately scum-hunting.
What the hell does this have to do about the game? How does this convey a alignment?
Cool-headedness. Frankly, it was a pretty good analysis of the situation. Also, he did NOT use a site meta clash as an opportunity to wagon someone or throw someone under the bus. Scum wouldn't try to diffuse that situation like that - they'd vote one of the parties and be generally way more opportunistic.
Also, he was relaxed and willing to joke/use a meme. I find that many people joke way less as scum. I would never, for instance, post a meme as scum. It's too risky - people in the game might consider it to be a lack of scum-hunting or not being serious enough. I like to see a relaxed manner like this, especially when the player is still scum-hunting and analyzing the situation, which GIF was.
In post 63, GuyInFreezer wrote:L-2 is actually pretty common for RVS wagon, because it builds enough pressure without the risk of lolderphammer.
Also, I'm terrible at reading sarcasm.
Well I don't like it for the reason I stated above. I'll say it again:
If some idiot was dumb enough to put an idiot town at L-1, that idiot town might actually claim.
Again, I'm not an idiot and thus I will not be claiming without an intent to hammer.
If we're following this logic, L-3 is scummy and dangerous too because someone might put an idiot town at L-2, which can lead to someone putting an idiot town at L-1, and idiot town might actually claim.
<_<
Attacking rmp, pulling pressure off fuzzy. I see why you like him.
Again, this is a call-out of some pretty bad logic. It shows he's reading critically and scum-hunting. Town points.
In post 506, Rob14 wrote:
The reason why I won't reveal my reason for the read on Pirate is because it would be harmful to the town for me to do that. Needless to say, I think I saw a specific tell a while back near the beginning of the game that convinces me Pirate isn't scum. Run me up to L-1 or lynch me if you want - that reason isn't getting revealed.
Seems to me you see her as a PR, don't want to lynch her, but don't want others to know that's how you see her.
What possible townie would say what you just did. Is it really this easy?
In post 508, Jake from State Farm wrote:Lol, look at lurker pirate showing up only to vote. Didn't even bother to answer the questions I asked earlier.
Fuzzy did the same thing when I was voting Rob, so by your logic you should be voting fuzzy. (although fuzzy wasn't lurking at the time.)
Extremely weak reasoning, but I can see why you'd potentially think this.
In post 514, Rob14 wrote:Jake - still voting me on gut? I love how you've made no arguments against me so that I have nothing to respond to in order to defend myself in any way. A+++ on the scum-hunting.
But.....still town. Why are you voting Jake exactly Pirate?
Didn't you say something earlier about gut votes not being an alignment tell? Seems like you are saying he's not scumhunting. BB also has a vote due to gut, so why do you bring it up on Jake and not BB?
Because Jake is targeting me, trying to start a wagon on me (and somewhat succeeding), and refusing to give any reasons for his vote. He was basically starting a witch-hunt in my direction while refusing to give me any reasons which I could defend against. That's scummy. Gut is one thing, but there's no such thing as a strong gut read. If you're calling for a wagon on somebody and looking to lynch them, you damn well better have some concrete reasoning. Especially 20+ pages into the game.
Also, as I've said before, I tend to leave BB for others to sort out, because I'm awful at reading him. I always think he's scum.
I already explained I think Jake views her as a PR but doesn't want people to know that so when she dies tonight he's not in trouble for it. But this also appears to me as Jake fishing for what PR Rob this pirate is.
Again, why on earth would any townie draw attention to this. Like seriously. Too easy.
In post 516, Rob14 wrote:
Also, I know I've said this before, but I'd recommend looking into my meta.
But you got mad at me because you thought I read your scum meta. Lol
No, I didn't. I got mad at you because I thought you accused me of faking being angry enough to replace out of a game and instigating a situation where another player was forced replaced purposefully to further a scum agenda in another game. If you want to read my town and scum meta, go right ahead. I encourage it - I think meta is very useful Day 1 where appropriate. Just do it correctly and don't accuse me of being a giant asshole to further my wincon in other games.
Tunneling is not town Jake, Ignore Rob and me tunneling bubba though.
Some people tunnel as town. I'm one of them. Dav isn't even tunneling you. He isn't even voting you right now, and hasn't been for a while. Please, Bubba. Coherent thoughts. We'd all appreciate them.
In post 598, bubbajack8 wrote:Proof of fuzzy tunneling me is laterly found here as well.
One post, while he's voting elsewhere if I recall correctly, constitutes tunneling now. Okay, got it. Now you're confusing "having a scum read" with "tunneling." Again, very different things. Go read the wiki.
Piratecat has gone 22 hours without a post, 21 hours without a post, 42 hours without a post, and 25 hours without a post.
All this coming from a person who is offended they have been accused of lurking. Seriously ladies, if you are town you should be ashamed of yourselves right now at the hypocrisy.
This comment is the most towny comment ever. What scum motivation is there to go and look how many hours someone has gone without a post?
To defeat someone in an argument or make someone look bad? There's plenty of scum motivation to do that if you've caught a townie saying something stupid.
Also, you just started talking about Jake as town. I thought you said he was scummy lately? Which is it?
(NO comment on the town slip argument though, I have no clue what it is, and no one's quoting it...)
This is exactly the point - Jake is refusing to quote it while simultaneously complaining that I'm not explicitly stating my reason for Pirate being town.
Rob was asking people to vote for me, is that not controlling?
No, it isn't. I gave reasoned arguments for why people should vote you and have responded to you several times showing how you aren't scum-hunting, are making bad arguments, and are just generally scumming it up. That's not controlling the lynch - that's persuading others to vote someplace because there's really good reasons to vote there.
In post 589, Rob14 wrote:
But there's never any reason for town not to answer a question or give a reason for their reads, AM I RIGHT?
Yet you refused to say why Pirate isn't scum though.
In post 506, Rob14 wrote:
The reason why I won't reveal my reason for the read on Pirate is because it would be harmful to the town for me to do that. Needless to say, I think I saw a specific tell a while back near the beginning of the game that convinces me Pirate isn't scum. Run me up to L-1 or lynch me if you want - that reason isn't getting revealed.
In post 502, Rob14 wrote:Not disclosing any of my reasons for my Pirate read.
Well, that went right over your head. That was the ENTIRE point, you realize, correct? I was pointing out the hypocrisy in Jake of calling me out for not answering questions (despite me explaining that it would harm town for me to do it) while doing the EXACT SAME THING (and providing no reasons at all for refusing to answer the question).
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:55 am
by Piratecat
Epm*
.. Rob.. That post <.<
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:57 am
by Rob14
So now both Bubba and Jake have openly speculated in thread that Pirate is a possible vig. Fucking lovely. There's totally a town motivation for doing that. Definitely.
And yes, Jake, I do have things I can point you to. I just don't want to because if I point town to it I'm also pointing scum to it. Can you not understand the argument that I'm making? I'm saying that POINTING OUT THE TELL THAT I SAW WOULD BE BAD FOR THE TOWN. IT WOULD BENEFIT SCUM GREATLY IF THEY NOTICED THE TELL THAT I SAW. There, I put it in capitals. Hopefully that will make sure you read it this time.
P-edit: Sorry, Pirate, had to destroy Bubba a bit there. My bad.
You really are bad at trying to figure out Mollie from Mala. That was actually me(Mala) who responded to the vig claim.
Thought you didn't play EMP? Before the other MS and I only skimmed the game, but link me to the part where the DayVig claimed?
Also you don't know how I would play with a vig. In fact I
love
being a vig. So yeah if I was the vig I wouldn't have claimed even if the suggestion to claim was there. I have a hot shot record so vig is a good town tool if its in my hands.
I never said I haven't played EM, as regards to the claim, didnt matter who actually typed it. That's the only thing that rob could have used and if you are the vig and aren't claiming I personally think you are playing it wrong and should be claiming. I'll explain why post game.
Gotta shut my phone off now, on the airplane.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:51 am
by BBmolla
PRs should probably just claim as PRs shouldnt they
But there's never any reason for town not to answer a question or give a reason for their reads, AM I RIGHT?
This hypocrisy is making me reconsider my Jake read, but I still think that Bubba is a way better choice Day 1. I'm way more sure on Bubba than I think I ever will be on Jake.
The difference is I am saying they made a specific post Pre-game. Since they only made 2 it's reslly easy to find. You are claiming a super strong town read based on something and you won't even give a clue as to why. It's completely different. Give me a clue and I'll certainly try to find it. If you pulled it out of thin air, which is what I think you did, then your refusal to explain it is quite scummy
Posting on my iPod so this will be short.
If I give a clue I might as well just give you the tell, since the clue would be used by scum as well as town. On the other hand you have no reason to NOT point to the specific post and give your reasoning behind the read. You want others to pick a post and do your reasoning for you. That's not how it works. You made the read. Now support it.
This reads "I haven't made up a reason yet so I'll pretend I have a super secret reason".
Anyone reading the thread can read page 1 and after that they still have no çlue, I'd be happy to show them. You on the other hand have nothing to point us to which means you are pulling it out of your ass.
The only thing I saw mollie did was react to the suggestion the vig should claim, having played EM before with this setup it's sonething I agree with. It gurantees us a clear and leaves mafia trying to find the doc. Having a clear day 1 helps, not hurts town. See the game I just finished where I was conf. Town day 1.
But there's no way I'd but she's a vig cause she should have claimed like suggested, and I don't see anything else that looks like a legit tell.
Rkb i just said that you saw uer as a PR, I neve aske for the twll of her being a PR i never even thought she was vig....
you also said what town reason s here to hde a reaon or thknking that someon is town. which was cntradictry of yoursslf.
either way UNVOTE:
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:52 am
by Rob14
Could you explain what that last post said Bubba? I'm not sure who you're talking to and what you're referencing specifically.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:17 pm
by bubbajack8
In post 604, Rob14 wrote:So now both Bubba and Jake have openly speculated in thread that Pirate is a possible vig. Fucking lovely. There's totally a town motivation for doing that. Definitely.
1. Neither of us said she was vig, unless I missed Jake saying that.
2. Why didn't you make up some bullshit reasons for her being town, like what scum motivation is there too say _____
3. Why didn't you just say you had a gut feeling she is town like everyone else has said about people?
4. There's a total town motivation for hiding reasons on a read (your words)
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:30 pm
by Piratecat
mollie here, let's clear some shit up
rpm, I asked where you were cos I wanted to talk to you. I never accused you of lurking why the fuck are you eating jake's crispy flakes.
bubba you still look like pondscum
molla what in the world are you doing like omg. you know we have never really gotten up in each other's grille in a game yet, maybe it is time
rob, I have seen so many scum v/la it is not funny. sora did it for like 2 game days in a row and nearly got away with it in terrible music micro. I don't think it goes against the spirit of the game, but we will have to agree to disagree.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:43 pm
by Rob14
I think it goes against the spirit of the game to claim a V/LA when you do not have one. It's a means of getting around activity rules designed to keep the game running. Therefore, I assume no one does it, just the same as I assume everyone's playing to their wincon. In my opinion, there are certain assumptions you MUST be able to make in order to be able to play a game of mafia. Either way, this is game theory, so I probably shouldn't go on about it unless it becomes directly relevant.
Bubba, why would I make up a reason? I don't lie as town. Doing so is one of the fastest ways to get yourself mislynched. That answers your 2 and 3. There is indeed a town motivation for hiding reasons for a read IF revealing those reasons would harm the town, as I said they would. I've tried to avoid going into those reasons, but you and Jake both felt it necessary to openly speculate about a potential PR. Neither of you said she was a definite vig, but you both speculated about it heavily in your posts.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:10 pm
by rmpeacoc
Pirate, I said that you called me a lurker first...
Also if you wanna talk then what's holding you back from talking?
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:23 pm
by Piratecat
We didn't call you a lurker.. That was yours and jakes interapation of it.
You both jumped to that conclusion without asking us first what it meant.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:03 pm
by BBmolla
I like Rob's towncase on GIF actually.
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:11 pm
by BBmolla
In post 417, bubbajack8 wrote:Also find it interesting how BB voted Jake earlier, and when BB asked people to vote people in the lurkers, who did fuzzy vote? None other than Jake.
Hey bubba you think I'm scum all things considered? Just curious.
In post 433, fuzzybutternut wrote:Because I've seen you lurking in every game I'm playing in right now.
Uh dude
Why would he be watching your games
Unless he was trying to read you
?
Tell me you don't read other people's games again.
Do it.
Please.
You do know this is for the whole forum you're in (meaning every single game in Mayfair Club. It just means he was in Mayfair Club)
Fuzzy, bro, you look really bad, Bubba is super town, don't see how you could be so tunneled on him
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:16 pm
by BBmolla
In post 456, Jake from State Farm wrote:It's hard to post substance when I haven't really read the thread. Molla can attest that once I do read, I should have a much stronger grasp of things (unless he's scum and wants to lie to make me look bad)
really thinking rob is town. if jake is being so stubborn that the world will end if he doesn't change his mind and he is still sticking with that read he is probably town. also scum don't give out gut reads and then defend them. bbmolla, think of the audio game where you had an early gut scum read on me. I just happen to think he is wrong this time but gut reads are hard to substantiate so scum won't usually use them.
unsure lean town on fuzzy
anyways that is what I got so far
oh hai where did catboi go
^Scum. Reads make no sense at all.
Her continues catboi defense doesn't bode well for that slot either.
^And she's upset because I'm trying to lynch them. Their appeal to "hey we were in audio game together buddy you misread us there so we have to be town here " followed by this random decision I'm scum is SO BAD AND NONSENSICAL
I know all you top posters love bitching at each other but can we please lynch non-commital out of the way piratecat?
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:26 pm
by BBmolla
I'm trying this new thing where I read the game what do you guys think
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:29 pm
by BBmolla
In post 612, Piratecat wrote:molla what in the world are you doing like omg. you know we have never really gotten up in each other's grille in a game yet, maybe it is time
I've been up in yo grill gurl
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:31 pm
by fuzzybutternut
BB, have you read anything about Bubba in this game?
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:35 pm
by bubbajack8
Rob i would all you town, but you keep saying i was speculating a P. No i don,t like your reasons or not outting it. i mean theres no scum motivation for saying someone is own and not givkng a reason when you think they are PR (besides of course not wanting pwople o know ou think they are a PR)
in fact Rob this is really nice play. soft that youthnk someone is a LR then get mad when we call it out@ Or you can just say gut like everyone else. i dont understnd why you would soft he as being a pr its not towny at all.
also you keep talking about a wincon. which i find interesting.
im beginning to think robis traitor. it makes sense too, soft you think someone is a PR becuse you have no way of commjnicating with the mafia! which throws away the idea that fuzz s scum, be ahse rob could tell him in minecraft. (keping an open mind.)
so that leaves rmp bb jake and both cats.
catboi vegged. reason to believe ots not hm.
so betwedn rmp bb jake and pirate id say jake.
bb i dont recall ever calling you mafia, i said fuzzy was buddying you with his gut comment, but it was a shitty argument.
oh and GiF. doubt hes mafia.
[unless catboi is mafia, an who was affected by his veg? none other then pirate cat.
" followed by this random decision I'm scum is SO BAD AND NONSENSICAL