Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

Selkies · Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:18 pm

Nacho, what are you thinking about notsci?

Selkies · Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:50 am

this is a nightmare scenario.

Selkies · Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:14 am

Recent history.

Selkies · Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:52 pm

lol

nati was too fed up with the game

i haven't been posting in the game but i've been flipping through the thread now and then

i think my read is consolidatin around nacho/notsci/gf

Selkies · Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:12 am

In post 3878, Nachomamma8 wrote:I thought you were ffery for a moment and was excited.

I'm here now

Selkies · Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:44 am

In post 3886, fferyllt wrote:
In post 3880, Guyett wrote:I dont know who to trust here
Talk about it?

me

Selkies · Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:04 am

Because I'm town?

Your post echoed a of thoughts, actually. Trust about what? Trust alignment? Trust judgment? Trust myself?

Selkies · Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:06 am

I am ok with it, but I want to finish my reread and post some stuff before the day ends.

Selkies · Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:51 pm

yeah.

and I'm going back and forth about how much I want to post today.

Selkies · Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:14 pm

That's kinda not where my concern lies. But thanks?

Selkies · Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:14 pm

In post 3011, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3008, Guyett wrote:I could pretend to be drunk if you want Nacho
yes please
whatever it takes to show me your spark

In post 3013, Nachomamma8 wrote:BERT GUYETT NACHO ARONIS
TOWNBLOCK 2.0

What was the spark?

Selkies · Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:24 am

I'm going with not making a detailed post.

My nacho read is where most of my waffle resides. But, scum Nacho has never let town me get anywhere near mylo. I don't know what zmuffin would do on his own because every fucking time he's been scum in my games he and nacho have been a team. Guyett and nati carried me to mylo in red wine, but I had a town read on Guyett's slot that I wouldn't reassess. That's not the case here.

VOTE: Nolynch

good hunting tomorrow.

Neighborhood all town
virtuoso scum townslip
all obscure; tule fog

In Guinness, veritas
is it indeed that simple?
trust in abeyance

confident read shakes
even earth turns to liquid
in recent temblors

Selkies · Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:03 pm

god damn it.

Selkies · Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:02 pm

I think Nacho's town.

Selkies · Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:59 pm

Guyett
Muffin
Nacho

i'm tending towards agreeing in fery in that the no-kill leans nacho-town

we could no-lynch and offer the draw

Selkies · Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:06 pm

actually wait i don't really want to

i think we're certain in saying that scum is between nacho and muffin

guyett didn't die last night because...muffin wanted his vote???

i fucking hate this game

Selkies · Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:18 pm

notscience's "read" on nacho was almost exclusively based on asking for other people's suggestions

nacho wanted a GF lynch and then hopped off it by including him in his townpile in 1399? then stays away from him until the slip

trying to keep up with nacho's ISO is futile

Selkies · Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:22 pm

actually fuck the no-kill

i think it's due to a game mechanism

Selkies · Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:02 am

i'm practically dying to hear your explanation of the no-kills

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:03 pm

gathering up some early/midgame zmuffin posts I want to think about. These were all prior to GF flip.

In post 497, zMuffinMan wrote:
fourtrouble wrote:So, Ross/Muffin/Katsuki scum-team? That makes the most sense, at this point.
it would not surprise me in the least if all 3 of those names are town

the funny part is i don't even think you're scum, you're just really lost

townread on two non-neighborhood players here. Three including FT.

In post 961, zMuffinMan wrote:
nacho wrote:
In post 904, Selkies wrote:The bravado kinda feels town. Kinda.
Suck it Muffin
why did you have to roll scum? :/

Vote: Nacho

i dunno who you're scum with yet, but you're scum. not selkies, prob not aronis, prob not bert.

These 4 names show up in absentia in a later reads list (quoted below)

In post 1326, zMuffinMan wrote:
aronis wrote:why would you go after Nacho? They are one of the weakest players
iawtp

it's like he sees through you, nacho. he sees through you.

I should have asked Aronis what you were saying about nacho in the neighborhood. :/

In post 1828, zMuffinMan wrote:so i can kinda understand why you think bert is town (if it's the :effort: factor? i dunno. the :effort: he's putting in looks shit so i don't really care much for it) but there are quite a few things i don't like about him. first is the way he was approaching the game in the early stages; he
was
buddying me. or at least was bringing up a past game we've played together for no good reason except to mention that my reads were good there. and i don't know why he thinks that's a big deal or that one game is a good measure of anything. but he mentioned it several times and i think that was really odd. the rest of his play at the time felt really manufactured - it felt like he was changing up his recent playstyle in an effort to look town, but everything he was saying looked forced and it felt like he was just going with the flow with his reads; there was nothing controversial, nothing that other people weren't already talking about, etc etc. i really haven't been following the game close enough recently to tell whether this is still the case but the reads list he gave a short while back didn't impress me much (and i thought it was rather odd that he gave a reads list and then commented on people who weren't his top scum picks, but meh)

but anyway, give me a reads list nacho. i wanna see at least 3 picks for scum if you don't wanna give town reads.

bert read was pretty bizarre. But, bert was never lynchable imo, so it's kind of a strange read for scum-zmuffin to have. I think. I dunno. Something to review.

In post 1864, zMuffinMan wrote:
bert wrote:Nat is already unhappy with the personal attacks from when people were attacking Katsuki.

Keep it clean man, we all know Nat.
what i've said here is rather fucking tame compared to the actual contempt i have for your play (that i think nati is already aware of)

don't talk to me in this game anymore. if you think i'm scum, either try to lynch me or shut up about it. don't ask me questions, because i won't be answering anything you ask of me. i'm going to treat you like you don't exist in this game until you're dead (either because people eventually want to lynch you or because scum are stupid enough to NK you if you actually are town)

This doesn't sound much like a description of someone muffin would want to nk. Could have been NS or GF's idea? Would scum-zmuffin let one of them choose the nk?

Not going to quote post 2100. It's a point by point refutation of my scum-GF case. Noting here because I want to check some stuff.

In post 2332, zMuffinMan wrote:i don't think ns is scum
i don't think idiotking is scum
i don't think mafiassk is scum*
i don't think guyett is scum
i don't think cabd is scum
i don't think goodfather is scum*

this is where i'm at right now

* to be reassessed if we ever fucking mass claim

this meant scum in aronis/bert/nacho/selkies? How the hell could anyone think bert and I were scum together?

In post 3488, zMuffinMan wrote:
i don't really think ns makes sense as scum with anyone still alive

except for maaaaaaybe selkies

interactions with katsuki/guyett and nacho all game haven't really looked like scum-scum interactions

also think his attitude towards cabd this game (somewhat antagonistic, "DOOOOOOOOOOOO IIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTT PUSSY, KILL ME") looks more likely town than scum

and there's that thing i still think is more likely a townslip than anything

soooooooooooooooooo

someone convince me i'm wrong or i don't think i'll be voting ns today

What happened to the bolded?

From here, zmuffin's posts become pretty much all-consuming reasons why nacho must be scum.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:01 pm

In post 3953, zMuffinMan wrote:it wasn't an assessment based on anything in your posts, it was an assessment i was making based on the way notscience had played the game in regards to other players

the notscience-nacho interactions i was referring to there were i think to do with the townbloc stuff? i think, don't remember

regardless, consistency is a real thing for scum-me (and something i am aware of more than anything else), so if anything, me not following through with that is pretty town of me!

that thing about bert is from D2? what had either of you done at that point that (a) looked town or (b) excluded you from being scum together?

bert was displaying a fair amount of paranoia about me day 1. iirc he had his vote on me for good sized chunks of day 2. In the games I've played/followed where he was scum he wasn't much of a busser.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:31 pm

It didn't register at the time. I've had you as town most of the game.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:48 pm

In post 3949, zMuffinMan wrote:and you know ffery is always going to be slightly paranoid about me.

I can't remember if I posted it or just thought it on day 6, but I have mulled over which of you as scum are more likely to carry me to LYLO/MYLO.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:56 pm

Except in NY 169 I eventually figured you out, not Nacho.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:58 pm

And that data point's really the only one that suggests to me that scum-you might not want me at lylo in this game.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:04 pm

this feels like a town for the wrong reasons kind of argument.

Selkies · Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:11 pm

I seldom make single-data-point decisions. Takes an extremely persuasive data point.

Selkies · Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:18 am

tell me things

Selkies · Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:11 pm

In post 3973, zMuffinMan wrote:i don't remember if you ever talked about your thoughts on 3535

i think you mentioned it somewhere but i don't remember anything beyond that

i'll talk about it more tomorrow (hopefully)

I never did discuss it but I have thought about it. maybe orci said something about revisiting it.

Your post takes me back to a game long ago and far away. It was actually the first game I ever made it to lylo as scum. The guy who taught me how to play mafia was the mod, and after the game he pointed up what he felt was a near-fatal error on my part on night 3 or 4. The cop had claimed and had a guilty on another scum player. Scum thought there was a protective role in the game and we chose to kill the player we thought was a doc that night rather than target the cop.

There was no doc.

The cop had an inno the next day and we had one very precarious path of mislynches left that could get us to lylo and a win.

My mentor very kindly yelled at me after the game for not targeting the cop for the kill and risking the action failing. It was his opinion that you always go after the biggest threat rather than self-wifom with setup spec and second guessing town prs, and let other scum teams do the dodge and weave stuff that kept town PRs guessing what their best strategies were.

In that byzantine environment his advice made sense.

MS mafia is also byzantine, but in different ways. Anyway, I don't know if a scum team comprised of notsci, GF and one of you lot would have made such a direct cut to the night 2 Gordian knot.

Selkies · Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:15 pm

In post 3978, Guyett wrote:VOTE: selkies

What changed your mind about Nacho?

Selkies · Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:18 pm

In post 3991, zMuffinMan wrote:then you've never seen a neighbourhood played correctly - though, technically, the neighbourhood you had in cash cabd was a semi-masonry (albeit among two people, not three)

That was neighborization, not a randomly assigned neighborhood.

apropos of nothing, town neighborizer is one of my favorite roles to draw.

Selkies · Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:31 pm

and I'm saying that the way a neighborhood is started/originates has a huge impact on whether mutual town reads can be established.

When I read your posts about the power of an all town neighborhood, the cash cabd game didn't even occur to me as an example because the start dynamic was so different.

Selkies · Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:52 pm

I don't know how Nati thinks about this, exactly. We talked a little about the cash cabd game after it ended, and I remember he thought town were overpowered compared to scum in that game. He didn't think scum daytalk should have counted for much in the balance of that game, but I think he felt the 2 investigative roles were more problematic than the neighborhood. iirc he thought that particular neighborhood was hell for scum, but it was based on the player/role synchronicity. Different players drawing the neighborizer or doctor roles might have made the neighborhood much less of a factor in the game.

Selkies · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:54 pm

Will read through it.

@Nati, ffery head v/la until Wednesday.

Hopefully 24 hours or less.

Selkies · Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:34 am

online

Selkies · Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:36 am

and we are not confirmed yet because that wasn't l-1 lol

Selkies · Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:18 am

In post 4028, zMuffinMan wrote:a cleared person in mylo means very little unless people were considering a lynch on them

especially given if we don't lynch today, it's entirely up to scum whether or not they want to take a happily ever after

I'm not following your first sentence at all.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:14 am

In post 4043, zMuffinMan wrote:@ffery

well, you're almost certainly not getting lynched today so confirming you doesn't do much of anything

i mean, if it really bothers you i can vote nacho, confirm you, then unvote and carry on as planned

but since it doesn't _actually_ make any real difference, *shrug*

Not at all where my head is at.

My head is on a maniacal street.

VOTE: Nolynch

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:28 am

In post 4051, zMuffinMan wrote:.

are you fine with a happily ever after then? that seems a really fucking boring way to end the game and it seems the most likely scenario if we no lynch today

tbh i'd rather lose this game then go the boring route here

I don't think whoever's scum will settle for that. Not in this player list. I won't vote Nacho today. So, it's either put a vote down that will probably result in a random lynch or force a choice tonight.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:34 am

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:37 am

Because if I'm wrong then I've given you the hammer.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:40 am

And if I'm totally, catastrophically wrong about Nacho and we don't have a majority lynch then random roll.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:55 am

Nacho's case on zmuffin has come from the heart. There's no guile in it. I don't know how to explain it better than that. And I'm alive. After the last few games where he's been scum and I've misread him, I don't think he'd have risked the potential paranoia from me.

zmuffin is POE.

nacho and orci both think you're town, so I'm not seriously revisiting that. I'm acknowledging what a vote on zmuffin would allow given the game state.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:59 am

and now we're conf town.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:00 am

VOTE: zmuffin

gg

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:53 am

I thought our nokill choice last night would lose the game tbh. It seemed like a good idea at the time, and I guess ultimately it was.

We knew who the scum team were, but they didn't know who were were, just that we existed. We were recruited night 2 when the nokill happened. They targeted us expecting to recruit us, I think.

I wasn't working toward a seat at the lylo table. I was just trying to lay down tons of false associations and crap that would hopefully lead to some mislynches after our traitor flip.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:56 am

Thanks for the game, Nati! I loved your artwork and I thought the game design itself was pretty intriguing. cabd drawing the vig role was kinda scary!

I'm looking forward to playing lots of future games - hopefully town ones!

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:59 am

Also as I told orci and nati, after marketplace and ny 169 and imperishable night, being scum against nacho and zmuffin was pretty motivating. Otherwise I would probably have given up when it became clear we were going to be the last living scum.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:01 am

In post 4081, zMuffinMan wrote:and the no kill N2 being a traitor recruit just makes things even shitter

though i blame nacho for not coming up with a good alternate explanation that woulda made me rethink things

coz i think i made myself pretty fucking transparently town this game and i really don't know how he could have honestly thought anything i was doing and saying made sense coming from scum me but whatever

I knew you were which made it easy for once, but I thought you were transparently town for the most part. It was strange that you and nacho couldn't see the town in each other.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:03 am

Test of time needed, but I think I did get some insights into how to spot town-zmuffin in this game.

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:24 am

dead qt?

I'm happy to share the mafia QT if GF and notsci are ok with it.

In the meanwhile, this was our deep and thoughtful discussion about who to kill on night 6

[4/2/2014 7:08:23 AM] Hal: yo
[4/2/2014 7:08:24 AM] Hal: who are we nking
[4/2/2014 7:18:03 AM] ffery, fery, etc: I'm leaning either guyett or none of us.
[4/2/2014 7:18:07 AM] ffery, fery, etc: nokill
[4/2/2014 7:18:16 AM] Hal: nokill sounds positively evil
[4/2/2014 7:18:22 AM] Hal: i like it (heart)
[4/2/2014 7:18:30 AM] ffery, fery, etc: heh
[4/2/2014 7:19:00 AM] ffery, fery, etc: those are the two scenarios I see most likely coming down to town voting town
[4/2/2014 7:19:07 AM] Hal: yeah
[4/2/2014 7:19:09 AM] Hal: let's do no-kill
[4/2/2014 7:19:12 AM] Hal: hehe
[4/2/2014 7:19:15 AM] Hal: also nati will rage

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:48 am

In post 1996, Cabd wrote:
In post 1993, Selkies wrote:
In post 1991, Cabd wrote:
In post 1988, Selkies wrote:heh.
Not answering those is a scumclaim~
troll
Nope, serious. Answer or die.

Spoiler: I better answer, then

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:34 am

omfg I didn't put Syr on that list. nati plz plz plz fix!

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:40 am

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:27 am

nati drew my death scene. I haven't seen it

Selkies · Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:28 pm

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/YHW6yrEfkqL