Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:44 am**

In post 596, zMuffinMan wrote:hmm, some of my issues with orcinus could simply be because he is a VI

Really? Orci as a VI? Annoying, sure. But VI, no.

And my vote remains on you.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:30 am**

VOTE: Selkies

Joking is not an obvious scumtell, but it's not townie either. I didn't really see you making a valid attempt to get the game out of RVS, I would credit that to idiotking. While you did make a ton of content early on, I found most of it to be useless and more junk then anything.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:26 am**

In post 590, zMuffinMan wrote:also i'm not sure what to make of ffery unvoting me. there are two possible reasons i can think of. one i'm not going to talk about right now. the other is that ffery actually believes she spotted something in my play that she thinks is more likely to come from me as town than me as scum. but she was very vague on what that something is (something to do with me probing people for opinions, when i really wasn't doing anything of the sort at the time). i dunno. didn't really make a lot of sense at the time, and i woulda thought ffery would be trying to engage me and find out why i'm still voting their slot or something. orcinus didn't seem to like ffery's unvote, but he's not doing anything about it, soooooo i dunno what's going on with their read on me now.

Most of your wall seems to be reaction to orcinus' style of play, so I'm not going to respond to that. But, here, you are talking about what made me feel quite unhappy with our vote. I indicated earlier that we didn't have a consensus read on you. For the time, I was willing to let the vote sit and see where it went.

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

So, my actual post explaining why I unvoted was this:

In post 384, Selkies wrote:
In post 383, zMuffinMan wrote:
selkies wrote:I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak
no? i don't even know what your model of scum-me is
good!

selkies wrote:Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum
even if i were being aggressive (and i don't think anything i've done here is particularly aggressive so i dunno what you're referring to), this seems like a strange reason to change your mind
Aggressive might not be the best word for what I'm seeing as different in this game from bork's touhou mini and marketplace, but it's what comes to mind at dark-thirty am. You're engaging with players and poking at stuff in a way that's more reminiscent of some of your town games we've played. In Marketplace, you intentionally tweaked your meta to emulate your town games, so I'm not entirely put at ease by this, but I am not scumreading you.

I went through your ISO to pick out some of the posts that I saw as "engaging with players" and "poking at stuff" at the time I made the above post.

In post 205, zMuffinMan wrote:
fourtrouble wrote:scum care more about rules that hurt them than town
again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

I liked this, and I thought that between your comments and cabd's reply to me about the scum behaviors in the game he modded this is actually a decent argument against scum-katsuki.

In post 230, zMuffinMan wrote:
cabd wrote:goodfather probs town
i know why you're saying this but it's not a difficult thing to fake

In post 320, zMuffinMan wrote:why are you buddying me so hard, bert?

and my D1 reads were shit in 1523. they *happened* to improve a little later in the game.

I also liked your calling out bert for buddying. I noted you waved off the compliment of your reads in the earlier game. But I have this idea that I've seen you downplay your prior games as either alignment.

In post 229, zMuffinMan wrote:
selkies wrote:Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.
i only "dropped" one scum read
why do you think i'm more likely to refuse to give reasoning as scum?
and my activity is what my activity is. i'm reading other games, not sitting here f5ing this thread.

In post 360, zMuffinMan wrote:
selkies wrote:Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?
maybe your model sucks

the goodfather wrote:Can anyone confirm that this is how muffin man plays?
i've seen this muffin guy play before, and i can tell you this is how he normally plays. i think he's town here.

fourtrouble wrote:Selkies seems like town
why?

idiotking wrote:Shares my irritation in unexplained votes
uh huh. you realise they're only irritated the votes on their slot, they don't seem to care about unexplained votes from anyone else (like cabd's vote on aronis, or fourtrouble's vote on ross, or any of the other votes that weren't explained)

I liked this too. I liked the pushback on my post. I noted the reply to goodfather as something you were doing more as town, but I think you've started making that kind of comment as scum recently (marketplace). As far as the unexplained votes, I know I've indicated I'd like more about Cabd's aronis read, and orcinus engaged fourtrouble on his Ross read.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:26 am**

In post 590, zMuffinMan wrote:also i'm not sure what to make of ffery unvoting me. there are two possible reasons i can think of. one i'm not going to talk about right now. the other is that ffery actually believes she spotted something in my play that she thinks is more likely to come from me as town than me as scum. but she was very vague on what that something is (something to do with me probing people for opinions, when i really wasn't doing anything of the sort at the time). i dunno. didn't really make a lot of sense at the time, and i woulda thought ffery would be trying to engage me and find out why i'm still voting their slot or something. orcinus didn't seem to like ffery's unvote, but he's not doing anything about it, soooooo i dunno what's going on with their read on me now.

Most of your wall seems to be reaction to orcinus' style of play, so I'm not going to respond to that. But, here, you are talking about what made me feel quite unhappy with our vote. I indicated earlier that we didn't have a consensus read on you. For the time, I was willing to let the vote sit and see where it went.

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

So, my actual post explaining why I unvoted was this:

In post 384, Selkies wrote:
In post 383, zMuffinMan wrote:
selkies wrote:I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak
no? i don't even know what your model of scum-me is
good!

selkies wrote:Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum
even if i were being aggressive (and i don't think anything i've done here is particularly aggressive so i dunno what you're referring to), this seems like a strange reason to change your mind
Aggressive might not be the best word for what I'm seeing as different in this game from bork's touhou mini and marketplace, but it's what comes to mind at dark-thirty am. You're engaging with players and poking at stuff in a way that's more reminiscent of some of your town games we've played. In Marketplace, you intentionally tweaked your meta to emulate your town games, so I'm not entirely put at ease by this, but I am not scumreading you.

I went through your ISO to pick out some of the posts that I saw as "engaging with players" and "poking at stuff" at the time I made the above post.

In post 205, zMuffinMan wrote:
fourtrouble wrote:scum care more about rules that hurt them than town
again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

I liked this, and I thought that between your comments and cabd's reply to me about the scum behaviors in the game he modded this is actually a decent argument against scum-katsuki.

In post 230, zMuffinMan wrote:
cabd wrote:goodfather probs town
i know why you're saying this but it's not a difficult thing to fake

In post 320, zMuffinMan wrote:why are you buddying me so hard, bert?

and my D1 reads were shit in 1523. they *happened* to improve a little later in the game.

I also liked your calling out bert for buddying. I noted you waved off the compliment of your reads in the earlier game. But I have this idea that I've seen you downplay your prior games as either alignment.

In post 229, zMuffinMan wrote:
selkies wrote:Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.
i only "dropped" one scum read
why do you think i'm more likely to refuse to give reasoning as scum?
and my activity is what my activity is. i'm reading other games, not sitting here f5ing this thread.

In post 360, zMuffinMan wrote:
selkies wrote:Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?
maybe your model sucks

the goodfather wrote:Can anyone confirm that this is how muffin man plays?
i've seen this muffin guy play before, and i can tell you this is how he normally plays. i think he's town here.

fourtrouble wrote:Selkies seems like town
why?

idiotking wrote:Shares my irritation in unexplained votes
uh huh. you realise they're only irritated the votes on their slot, they don't seem to care about unexplained votes from anyone else (like cabd's vote on aronis, or fourtrouble's vote on ross, or any of the other votes that weren't explained)

I liked this too. I liked the pushback on my post. I noted the reply to goodfather as something you were doing more as town, but I think you've started making that kind of comment as scum recently (marketplace). As far as the unexplained votes, I know I've indicated I'd like more about Cabd's aronis read, and orcinus engaged fourtrouble on his Ross read.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:29 am**

In post 600, notscience wrote:Hi

Hi. Why aren't you obvtown yet?

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:30 am**

In post 592, Selkies wrote:I fell asleep and missed my appt with Orcinus. :/

Back when it's not 3 am.

i have a psyc exam in 8 hours and a road trip for CNY. This isn't happening for another day at least.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:39 am**

I think I'll post my stuff later today, then. You can critique it when you get back.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:04 am**

In post 603, Selkies wrote:I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum.

I've been thinking the same thing, except about SSK, not muffin. That's where paranoia lives lol.

By that I mean, my past games with SSK (AA which you were in, and VisCon) had a distinctly different SSK style.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:16 am**

In post 594, Selkies wrote:
In post 522, RossWilliam wrote:
In post 515, Selkies wrote:
In post 514, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:wow shots fired

why is katsuki a waste of a lynch
Katsuki is either a jester, or he's blatantly over this game, which tells me town. Scum don't check out of a game on day 1
Not implying anything here--are you familiar with the term policy lynch

I know what a policy lynch is, I don't necessary agree with them on the basis that even if a player is a pain in the ass to have alive, lynches should be directed at scum and not nuisances, even if said nuisances are just left to rattle around and make noise forever.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:21 am**

What do you think of Katsuki, and do you consider him/her a policy lynch?

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:05 am**

I don't consider anyone a policy lynch.

I said earlier that Katsuki is either a jester or checked-out town, but after hearing about scum using prod dodging to get ahead, that's on the table now too, I wasn't considering it before

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:51 am**

Prod precautious.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:53 am**

In post 608, Bert wrote:
In post 603, Selkies wrote:I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum.
I've been thinking the same thing, except about SSK, not muffin. That's where paranoia lives lol.

By that I mean, my past games with SSK (AA which you were in, and VisCon) had a distinctly different SSK style.

That's just because it's a game modded by Natirasha, so I give my best here.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:58 am**

In post 613, MafiaSSK wrote:That's just because it's a game modded by Natirasha, so I give my best here.

Same here! I can hear him yelling at me post-game if I don't give 100.1%!

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:41 am**

Spoiler: \

In post 45, MafiaSSK wrote:Guys. This is a Nat game.

Vote: Natirasha

:goodvotes:

In post 51, Natirasha wrote:MafiaSSK(1): MafiaSSK

fuckin got em

In post 132, FourTrouble wrote:Seriously, you guys are playing achingly pro-scum so far, regardless of your actual alignment. It's basically 6 pages of meaningless clutter.

*me goes to check his ISO*

Funny man, aren't you.

In post 187, Aronis wrote:So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]

Who the fuck are you and what is this bullshit

In post 197, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 187, Aronis wrote:So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]
So how about you describe your reason?

:townposting:

In post 203, Aronis wrote:
In post 197, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 187, Aronis wrote:So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]
So how about you describe your reason?
Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

VOTE: Aronis

In post 220, Selkies wrote:
In post 203, Aronis wrote:Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?
rereading, the inclusion of and only of all 3 wagons disturbs me like fuck.

IAWTP

In post 224, The Goodfather wrote:This may be just putting a huge kick me sign on my back, but i looked at rule 6 a lot differently...

It hurts the town worse in my estimation. 13 players,, probably 3 or 4 scum. The burden falls on us as the town to make a decisive lynch, otherwise, we're basically asking natirasha to kill us herself...If, for example, we do not have a majority by the end of this dp, 9/14 times, a townie will be killed (assuming 4 scum).

I'm frankly suprised that i am the only one who sees it that way...

alright, i've said my bit, here you go:

If I turn to the next page and any less than 3 people comment on this being the biggest sack of bullshit ever I'm going to kick a puppy

In post 227, Cabd wrote:goodfather probs town.

This is liable to make me kick a puppy.

In post 230, zMuffinMan wrote:
cabd wrote:goodfather probs town
i know why you're saying this but it's not a difficult thing to fake

:townposting:

In post 233, Cabd wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

Glad to see my read on you is going to waffle all fucking game. Whoopie.

In post 236, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 233, Cabd wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis
Give Aronis a break, Cabd. I'm pretty sure they're new.

If Aronis flips scum we quicklynch the everliving fuck out of SSK.

In post 255, Katsuki wrote:
In post 203, Aronis wrote:
In post 197, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 187, Aronis wrote:So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]
So how about you describe your reason?
Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?
Why are muffin, selkie and I scum?

In post 258, Katsuki wrote:
In post 233, Cabd wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

In post 236, MafiaSSK wrote:
In post 233, Cabd wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis
Give Aronis a break, Cabd. I'm pretty sure they're new.
interesting

Cool, Katsuki's town.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:41 am**

Spoiler:

In post 261, Idiotking wrote:Ok, so let me get my brain sorted here.

So Katsuki said that rule 6 punishes good scumplay, but FourTrouble thinks that Katsuki's scum because of this on the assumption that only scum would say something like that due to knowing more about the setup. This is dumb, because townies would want to play a fair game too. Also, it's kind of clear (at least to me) that no-lynches are more beneficial to scum (because it limits info for the town), so instead allowing for scum to be killed even though they successfully divided the town enough for a no-lynch would be anti-scum. As a townie this would be good for your win-condition, sure, but it'd be unfair, and less fun for everybody. I don't think this is really scummy from FourTrouble, just kind of silly.

Then there's a lot of boring talk between Selkies, MafiaSSK, and Cabd filling the thread.

In post #135 MafiaSSK looks at FourTrouble's (pretty weak) argument against Katsuki based on the rule thing, says "yup, sound's about right" and votes. Sheeping a wee bit, eh?

Post #149, Selkies votes Katsuki without any kind of reason. Selkies also professes a town read on MafiaSSK, again without giving a good reason (this was just after SSK aped FourTrouble). This is a pet peeve of mine, because of how achingly useless it is. Giving reasons when you vote/give reads is kinda important for explaining how you reached those conclusions.

Post #152, Muffin lists a bunch of reads without any, ANY, explanation for why he has them. This bugs me, see above. His Katsuki readi s explained in #163, but still.

#227, Cabd says Goodfather is town, again without explaining why.

#231, SSK again apes Selkies, this time on a muffin vote, again without giving any unique reasoning beyond saying "yup, sounds good."

#233, Cabd votes Aronis, again without explanation (later adding in "oh, I know how young whippersnappers act, you guys, I GET the new generation."; weaksauce bullshit, that.)

#253, Katsuki votes Selkies without giving a reason. GAHHHHRRR

If I missed anything important, feel free to tell me. My patience for rooting through a lot of pointless banter was kinda low.

SO! Since I've got a slew of anti-town no-reason-for-voting players, I'll go with the person who just seems to be aping other people's arguments without producing anything unique to support their votes.

Vote MafiaSSK

Because nothing is more useless than a sheep.

Great policy vote there bucko. Nice IIoA too.

In post 296, Natirasha wrote:
Bert replaces Karlos4.

HI BERT

Bert's posting on page 13 because too many posts wrote:dsasoaguaroijtaw

I will now strongarm a lynch on anyone who goes after Bert js he's town as holy fuck

In post 353, Aronis wrote:
In post 349, RossWilliam wrote:Out of the people I'm developing reads on, Aronis and FourTrouble, for what I just said. Aronis for monkeying a confident player, and FourTrouble for waiting for other people to give him the reason for his vote.
I can't ever do anything right, can I?

First post I can see from him with a chance of coming from town-mentality.

----SIGUE: Why is noone scumreading idiotking and I swear to god if the answer is becoz walls I am going to [REDACTED]------

In post 391, Aronis wrote:I am trying to blend in. I'm just not used to this style of Mafia and don't want to get lynched d1. I'm just trying to watch what happens for awhile, see others strategies, etc. Then make my moves.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT

In post 411, zMuffinMan wrote:bert is scum

he hasn't done anything completely antitown, he hasn't self-voted and he hasn't asked to be lynched

I think you're town but so help me god I will quickwagon your ass if you even try

In post 449, FourTrouble wrote:So, Ross/Muffin/Katsuki scum-team? That makes the most sense, at this point.

If you think Katsuki is scum why did you ever unvote Katsuki >.> Can't tell if stupid town or scum

In post 605, Selkies wrote:
In post 600, notscience wrote:Hi
Hi. Why aren't you obvtown yet?

BoP don't make me vote you

So, can someo ne tell me why there are no wagons on (Idiotking, Aronis)?

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:42 am**

Bert you and I are going to be an ubercool townbloc

k?

k

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:42 am**

So Katsuki is town because he/she voted Aronis? I get it...

P-edit: K.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:48 am**

Katsuki's posts in her catchup were lining up exactly with my train of thought.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:12 am**

Vote Count 1.21

MafiaSSK(1):

Idiotking

Cabd(0):

Selkies(5):

zMuffinman, Katsuki, kabooooomm, The Goodfather, Selkies

zMuffinMan(1):

MafiaSSK

FourTrouble(0):

notscience(0):

The Goodfather(0):

kabooooom(0):

Bert(0):

RossWilliam(2):

FourTrouble

Aronis(1):

Cabd

Idiotking(0):

Katsuki(2):

Selkies, Bert

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(2):

notscience, RossWilliam

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2014-02-04 21:00:00)

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:37 am**

VOTE: Aronis

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:29 pm**

In post 619, notscience wrote:Katsuki's posts in her catchup were lining up exactly with my train of thought.

Not a good reason to call someone town, especially given the posts you cited earlier are basically just "interesting" and "why is X scum" sort of posts, which isn no reason for calling someone town.

In post 621, notscience wrote:VOTE: Aronis

Pretty sure Aronis is town. Is there any particular reason you think he's scum?

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:33 pm**

In post 616, notscience wrote:If you think Katsuki is scum why did you ever unvote Katsuki >.> Can't tell if stupid town or scum

You can't vote all the scum at once... and more information was gained from trying to build a wagon on zMuffin and later voting Ross.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:34 pm**

yawn.

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