In post 92, Karnage wrote:
@Salsae, bepwei, and Arkias - what did you guys think of Billy's 83 and 89?
I think he makes a fair point about it being only 4 pages in so there's only so many things for people to focus on and to call it copy-paste isn't accurate but I still don't think he makes a strong enough case for scum!LCpl Jones. I believe its an attempt to retroactively justify his initial vote.
My only real experience of Forum Mafia was the KoL forums. On their, Day one was mostly just random voting and noone took it seriously. Then again, I haven't actually played a proper vanilla game in a long time. A lot of my mafia play comes from Town of Salem and Throne of Lies.
In post 78, Billy Pilgrim wrote:@Karnage - where are you at on Bbm, Micc and Jones at the moment?
I feel ok about them but its early so idk, you?
BBM is null. I agree with his Micc read, but that's it at the moment. Honestly when you asked me that I isoed him and realized that he hasn't posted as much as I even thought he had. So even the Micc read could be pockety.
Micc's approach feels like his approach in the last game I played with him where we were both town. He engaged in theory discussions asked alot of directed questions that appeared to sort. I doubt this is outside his scumrange, but hes a townlean for me at the moment.
My vote on Jones isnt random. Jones asks about experience, and in my experience playing newbie games on this site that question comes from scum more often than town (you asked arkias the same question but in a more directed and relevant way).
*[maybe a reason]*
I think the way he dealt with the interaction from Micc in response to his BBM vote didnt look good. He starts by saying that sheeping is bad (fine no argument) but then explains that he doesnt think BBM was sheeping and that scum wouldnt be so transparent. Micc then asks for more clarification on whether it was just anti-sheeping or a scumread, and splits it saying it's mostly the anti-sheeping stance but not fully. Then at 39 he commits to saying that BBM wasnt sheeping (so now I completely dont understand the vote). Then in 47 he tries to claim credit for moving the game out of RVS, which I dont think is accurate, and that comes off as scummy in this context. I then think he misrepresents Micc's 49 in how it discussed your vote at 29. Micc was talking about the fact that he didnt view your 29 as RVS because you were already asking game advancing questions. I think Jones misrepped that, and I think it was intentional, because he seemed to double down on it claiming that your questions didnt come until 34, when you were asking for explanations as early as pg 1.
This is the first game that I'm actually taking notes in. I hope it makes my life easier.
I have no experience from or with anyone here, so I can't really answer that in any proper sense.
I do agree that sheeping is bad since in Forum Mafia and ToS/ToL, sheeping was generally done by people who weren't paying attention and would miss fairly obvious clues (Fake Death Notes, inconsistent voting patterns, and the like. However, it's day one, so I'm half inclined to believe he (BBM) was just funposting.
Reading through what you wrote, I think that's just not right. I feel like you're reading way too much into something that's not exactly there, and even in both 73 and 59 the same answers present. He didn't really believe it was sheeping and just going off that, and even back then, it felt more like a joke. I do understand the following questions were meant to be 'game moving forward' questions, but that's fair.
In regards to 71, this almost reminds me about when in the KoL forums I played a game of 'Masquerade Mafia'. Everyone in the game was given a moniker for the thread, and that game went... interestingly. Turns out, most people could only lean who was scum/mafia or townie by comparing how a player played in a previous game, rather then what they did in the current. While I have no interest in defending players who aren't doing anything, I also just believe it's a case of tonal shift. Playing as someone with no night powers generally means that you either have to read the forums thoroughly and see if people are acting on priviledged information by being able to steer the game in some way. For most players, that just means they're not going to be doing anything then, since they don't really have anything to do.
Though, 94 is nice! I'm unused to a game more focused on day play, but I don't generally know if I have things to add. Sometimes, I feel like I'd just read the new posts and say "Yep. Conversation happened, but nothing worth me commenting on."
Now, with that out of the way, 67 and 71 what is this bullcrap. I get that Night 1 is boring but you can at least try to care. I think the sheep claim and the push on Jones is interesting, even if I just think its a huge misunderstanding.
So, with that, I'm going to VOTE: Billy Pilgrim. I feel like you're misinterperting and misreading posts to push something on someone.
PS.
Am I supposed to quote things I want to talk about or just link the post number?
In post 422, Billy Pilgrim wrote:
This is interesting, because it's pretty close to my thoughts except I'm more on BBM/you than Micc. But I dont see scum motivation for BBM's soft. Do you? Because if you dont, then the suspicion is preventing a pretty easy PoE solve right now. Although how do you know its BEP? Why cant it be Anaconda and Gyro?
ok, I'm pretty confident you are town so I am going to trust that my town reads that agree with your town reads are right. This means Micc is town and I think that means molla is too.
UNVOTE:
i don't KNOW its bepwei but out of them, anaconda, and gyro but think it's a high probability. gyro still feels like apathetic town to me but I agree he wouldn't be good to have around during lylo. anaconda has been meh for me since they came in.
Hi! Anyone awake?
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:35 pm
by RadiantCowbells
I'm here for you <3
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:43 pm
by Jamelia
Idk why I even quoted all of those posts when I wasn't even going to comment on them anyways. I just felt like they were interesting and I wanted to look back at them. Forgot 25 pages of information with multiple people being prodded in and out makes me confusion.
So I take it that my slot is being policy lynched due to the slot being a LYLO risk. Totally agree with that analysis. My predecessor did not do any sort of good job in trying to help us figure out who is scum. But if the only logic behind my slot being a good lynch is the person behind it, I expect unvotes on my slot, now.
I find it strange that people were allowing this to happen especially with the huge possibility of a mislynch being a thing. We did not get it right the first day, and I am not sure *how* we can afford another mislynch, especially one that is based on a "well, they won't help us in a LYLO situation!".
Those people who initiated my slot's lynch (Micc, well he's gone; Molla, Billy), and then the people who have added onto it now (Karnage mainly), I don't see how a policy lynch helps them at all in this situation. The goal should be to scumhunt, not policyhunt. My vote (if given the chance to explain it further), would probably go towards Billy. I understand he is being townread by most, but I felt like his initial reaction to Molla's fake (?) read on them at the beginning of the day wasn't as towny as originally thought.
My other scumread at the moment is probably Karnage. I don't think the Micc slot is scum, based on the logic Micc was using. I understand Micc is aggressive in these games but I don't think he was trying to mislead. Anaconda is hit or miss for me. I am waiting for a post that I'm like ha! Gottem! But I haven't seen one that has jumped out at me. Same with bepwei in that regard.
I guess I'd just like explained why a policy lynch is good on Day 2, and how Karnage, you got to the point where you'd just rather have ANY lynch (even if it isn't your main scumlead) than one that would benefit us. That's all for now I guess
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:47 pm
by RadiantCowbells
I would vote Karnage.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:47 pm
by RadiantCowbells
Here's my thing about you: I don't know who the fuck your scumbuddy is supposed to be tbh.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:50 pm
by Jamelia
In post 605, RadiantCowbells wrote:Here's my thing about you: I don't know who the fuck your scumbuddy is supposed to be tbh.
There's none that's been established. I was waiting to see who people were trying to partner my slot with so I can maybe try figuring out some possible connections, but there's literally been none. This slot should have been lynched Day 1 as a policy lynch. 100%. It didn't happen and now people want to forget about day 1 and just act like this is the "safe option" on day 2. If this was the same option it should have been done day 1.
That's where my scumleans are at the moment; to those who should have lynched my slot Day 1 and are now trying to lynch it Day 2 as if it's the same impact
In post 422, Billy Pilgrim wrote:
This is interesting, because it's pretty close to my thoughts except I'm more on BBM/you than Micc. But I dont see scum motivation for BBM's soft. Do you? Because if you dont, then the suspicion is preventing a pretty easy PoE solve right now. Although how do you know its BEP? Why cant it be Anaconda and Gyro?
ok, I'm pretty confident you are town so I am going to trust that my town reads that agree with your town reads are right. This means Micc is town and I think that means molla is too.
UNVOTE:
i don't KNOW its bepwei but out of them, anaconda, and gyro but think it's a high probability. gyro still feels like apathetic town to me but I agree he wouldn't be good to have around during lylo. anaconda has been meh for me since they came in.
Ok, also I want to talk about this post because how the hell do you make that HUGE jump from "Well, I think you're town which means Micc is town and that means molla is town." There should not be that train of thought at all lol
I thought that the way Karnage let himself be "talked into" scumreading your slot was really bad.
I trust your slot. That's all that matters to me.
No, but... do you trust me?
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:53 pm
by Jamelia
In post 610, RadiantCowbells wrote:I thought that the way Karnage let himself be "talked into" scumreading your slot was really bad.
I trust your slot. That's all that matters to me.
No, but... do you trust me?
In what context? That's a non-specific question for someone who is playing a mafia game.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:53 pm
by RadiantCowbells
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:54 pm
by RadiantCowbells
I really don't think that this is the angle scum!Jamelia would have gone down subbing into this slot.
I was already not scumreading the slot, but this makes me feel a lot better about it.
VOTE: Karnage
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:55 pm
by Jamelia
From our experience last game where I was mafia and you were town, you ultimately made the right decision for what the town NEEDED, and not necessarily what they wanted. Sometimes you were wrong but overall your reads lead to the town winning.
Some people in this game (in my opinion) are leading others to believe "safe votes" will get us a win, but with a wrong vote and no clear "indicator" of a next vote (after I get lynched), this seems to be a clean sweep for mafia.
So unless I am completely wrong and your slot IS mafia, then yes, I trust you and your slot.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:56 pm
by RadiantCowbells
Btw there's bits to 614 that I don't think are really in any newbie player's scum range, and I just finished playing with scum!Jamelia. There was never really a good reason to SR him. He's town.
You seemed to position yourself weirdly wrt to Jones/Gilded yesterday. You were in a spot where he wasnt your preferred lynch (Bepwei was), but you made it clear that you thought the slot was scummy and ultimately hammered.
Now, in a game where people are getting scumread for pushing people that was maybe a risk, but maybe not. Although, I dont think you would have killed Arkias. I think that you probably would have killed Molla or one of the more active players. So your day play has me scumleaning you, but the nk makes me think it's not you.
And honestly, I'm lost in this game because I don't feel like we've got a good townblock.
Look if you think I'm town, come interact with me so we can get somewhere. If you think I'm scum interact with me and tell me why. Let me sort some people.
I think that this post is extremely difficult to make convincingly as scum. There's a lot of other posts that are similar; the one addressing Bbmolla I feel similarly about.
Honestly the main thing is that I think that his disappointment regarding my underwhelming replacement was super super genuine.
You seemed to position yourself weirdly wrt to Jones/Gilded yesterday. You were in a spot where he wasnt your preferred lynch (Bepwei was), but you made it clear that you thought the slot was scummy and ultimately hammered.
Now, in a game where people are getting scumread for pushing people that was maybe a risk, but maybe not. Although, I dont think you would have killed Arkias. I think that you probably would have killed Molla or one of the more active players. So your day play has me scumleaning you, but the nk makes me think it's not you.
And honestly, I'm lost in this game because I don't feel like we've got a good townblock.
Look if you think I'm town, come interact with me so we can get somewhere. If you think I'm scum interact with me and tell me why. Let me sort some people.
I think that this post is extremely difficult to make convincingly as scum. There's a lot of other posts that are similar; the one addressing Bbmolla I feel similarly about.
Honestly the main thing is that I think that his disappointment regarding my underwhelming replacement was super super genuine.
I read this as wishy-washy and a way to make a non-opinion look very opinionated. But, I guess that's just our eyes being different.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:02 pm
by Jamelia
I'm not voting until I am off L-1 by the way. If I get lynched, you (RC) know it's because I am a liability and NOT because of a LYLO.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:04 pm
by RadiantCowbells
In post 452, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Hey Radiant. Never played with you, but I hear good things. Gotta admit, this isnt what I had expected.
In post 495, Billy Pilgrim wrote:I dont have any rock solid scumreads. I thought I had a PoE solve in gyro>heavy>bep, but rc is confusing me. Micc was a solid townread, RC is not that.
I'm down for mass claim if others are. I'll go first but I'm popcorning to Molla because of how that slot has been acting around pr claims. I want time to sort that in case theres a weird situation there. I dont want to have to figure that shit out in LYLO.
This is probably hard to sell to anyone but me because it's a read that I have and other people don't really have access to understanding in the same way
but I don't think that this is how scum reacts and I feel like all his interactions with me have had an undercurrent of not being happy with me performing below expectations
idk.
I'm not voting until I am off L-1 by the way. If I get lynched, you (RC) know it's because I am a liability and NOT because of a LYLO.
Please just vote with me: it's very possible that both of us are not in the game tomorrow and the EoD votecount matters.
In post 452, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Hey Radiant. Never played with you, but I hear good things. Gotta admit, this isnt what I had expected.
In post 495, Billy Pilgrim wrote:I dont have any rock solid scumreads. I thought I had a PoE solve in gyro>heavy>bep, but rc is confusing me. Micc was a solid townread, RC is not that.
I'm down for mass claim if others are. I'll go first but I'm popcorning to Molla because of how that slot has been acting around pr claims. I want time to sort that in case theres a weird situation there. I dont want to have to figure that shit out in LYLO.
This is probably hard to sell to anyone but me because it's a read that I have and other people don't really have access to understanding in the same way
but I don't think that this is how scum reacts and I feel like all his interactions with me have had an undercurrent of not being happy with me performing below expectations
idk.
I'm not voting until I am off L-1 by the way. If I get lynched, you (RC) know it's because I am a liability and NOT because of a LYLO.
Please just vote with me: it's very possible that both of us are not in the game tomorrow and the EoD votecount matters.
Alright. VOTE: Karnage
I want to see what he says to all of this tomorrow anyways.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:11 pm
by RadiantCowbells
Like a lot of my more arcane reads are just my memory and I feel like I can even put a name to a player though I don't remember the game
but I remember exactly that kind of unexpressed frustration from Elyse in a game where I picked up on it and she was town.
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:12 pm
by RadiantCowbells
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:12 pm
by Jamelia
In post 622, RadiantCowbells wrote:Like a lot of my more arcane reads are just my memory and I feel like I can even put a name to a player though I don't remember the game
but I remember exactly that kind of unexpressed frustration from Elyse in a game where I picked up on it and she was town.
I'm curious why no one bothered to think about why this game was so frustrating even with "obvious" scumreads in front of them.