Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

yo i'm around
i've been kinda reading along today

this wagon on me is fairly ridiculous, and i find it quite suspect how it sprung practically out of nowhere

math i need you to articulate in your own words why you think i'm scummy here

also if there's anything in particular that people want me to address since i was here last please requote it, tyty

[skitter30]

good god i now have a 4 page iso, wow

[skitter30]

Skitter was assuming we would fail rather than pass or fail and just don’t know.

That makes her likely scum.

dude, you realize i know how to play this game, right?
and that i don't just randomly go 'hi it's time for massclaim !!!' when it's not the right time yet

you're also putting words in my mouth
i never said i wanted massclaim tomorrow

i said i would revisit rc and his claim tomororw, which is not at all the same thing

you somehow extrapolated that meant that:
a) i wanted massclaim tomorrow
b) that i

indiscriminately

wanted massclaim tomorrow (i.e. that i woudln't evalute like ... the four thousand other things that must be taken into account when figuring out if it's the right time for massclaim)

your'e also calling me scum for assuming that we're going to mislynch today ...
i did mess up and think that tomorrow is the day before lylo because i forgot at the moment that we were 12 instead of 11
but like i thought it was pretty apparent that i was only talking about the worst-case scenario

like even if i'm scum here the game is p obviously in flux and the lynch is not at all set, how can i know that we're mislynching today at this juncture, which is what you seem to be pushing me for ...

math did u respond to this post ?

[skitter30]

ok so is there anything concrete in particular you want to talk to me or ...
do u read me as scummy independantly of rc ?

but u don't need to answer rn if you're doing other things, i should be able to be here for a while

[skitter30]

i want u respond to that post in particular and explain how you think it's not a townie mindset
(when u get back)

[skitter30]

I picked a random page on D1, read it and it is useless. So let's just go with this
Is there anythung I should read ON DAY 1 or should I just start with D2? I have some opinions from my team but it's better if I form my own thoughts before reading those so expect me to still be useless until say tuesday

Pedit
fA? Nope
I do remember you and Wisdom kicking the shit out of threads

just start with day2

and all of ur posting today has been quite awful, no offense

[skitter30]

He called me scum for only having 2 scum in the bottom category of my readslist when there's 3 scum in normals.
He called Skitter scum for "knowing there's going to be a mislynch" in a situation where it really didn't make any sense as an accusation

So on, so forth, etc. I'm not like super engaged with this conversation tbh

Now baby you know I love you but this is post #4253, that is not nearly the depth of case I was expecting.

I'll read D1 until the explosion and continue to D2, make some readlist and then consult with teammates

You will wait

literally none of his pushes today were good
he's deathtunneled on ari (who i think is probably town)
and when i pointed that out, he started to push me, and yes, as far as i can tell the impetus is that he thinks i implied that i know that there's going to be a mislynch today (which is at best a gross misinterpretation of my words, and at worst is straight-up misrepping me)

and then from there he whipped up a wagon on me because 'my interactions with rc are weird and i might be a deepwolf' apparently

[skitter30]

Math/Skitter/Ari is the only scumteam that leaps out at me.

He flipped his shit when I started voting Skitter over Ari. Reasons right or wrong, this provoking such a response is odd.

I am kinda halfway curious to see what a Skitter wagon would do.

you realize that this post is from literally 4000+ posts ago and that the gamestate now is ridiculously different than in post 312
it's a little bit disingenuous to bring up this post as a reason to find rc's reaction now strange

also he townreads more than he townreads ari so ...

[skitter30]

Why were you voting ari, he stopped me from going tunnel vision @ RC and I townread him for that

Because my teammates pointed out a weakness of mine which is buddying and most of his posts were devoid of content but really nice. Since then he has not made a push anywhere.

I am kinda thinking RC/Skitter/Ari and if not Ari Bella. But I am thinking RC Skitter def a thing.

ScumRC could have redirected the Ari lynch to save a buddy or try to save cred and make Ari pushers look bad but only got more vocal when Bella was coming up? I don’t wanna go slog through the posts to see if my memory is right though. Too much spam.

a) you're conflating buddying with being nice. you're scumreading a personality trait
b) explain why exactly you think me/rc
c) and again me/rc/ari makes rc flip out when you switch from ari to me because ...

[skitter30]

His reasons d1 for townreading Skitter are that she can’t fake that level of emotion but she has a “Best scum” award.

I am kinda wondering if Skitter v RC was to defuse the RC wagon at the start of the day.

Pedit: I had a lighter push of Ari. Who did you push? You voted me sure, but I am curious to how you define push.

tfw when people think you have a good scumgame

math do u even know what my scumgame looks like ?
or more importantly i guess, do you think you know what it looks like better than rc does ?

[skitter30]

Either that or Skitter was supposed to bus RC for cred. TW was their victim to set this up as RC wasn’t supposed to go down until D2. The third then could be literally anyone.

Ugh trying to sort RC is a pita.

ok then i don't start the day hardpushing rc because ...

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Really tempted to just go after RC who is now trying to openwolf imo by going after the townblock as you say

do tell

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Really tempted to just go after RC who is now trying to openwolf imo by going after the townblock as you say

hi
why are you scumreading me

VOTE: skitter50
time to dance!

hi
do you scumread me or is for the memez cuz u find it funny seeing me get wagoned

ok

never saw skitter have more than 3 votes on her ever in my life tbh

here you go my dude
thats 4
VOTE: skitter

hi
why do you think me/rc are svs?
how are you reading math?
like any thoughts on the gamestate would be nice

do you any like any thoughts on the broader gamestate ?

=

does anyone else find this wagon creepy af or that just me ? ^^^

=

VOTE: Math

Iunno what happened in that last one lmao

You must mean your scum team.

I know Nancy is not an early bird, she’s probably asleep. Creature would check out after post 12 whatever his alignment as he’s not playing. Auro I haven’t met but your entire team agreeing seems to be a bit of a stretch considering I have been scum with both Nancy and Creature before.

And yes I made a point not to indulge RC’s childish wagon. I still won’t as it’s still just spam.

math this is a rather low blow and your pushes in the past like 24 hours have been generally quite awful
like you're basically accusing ari of lying about talking to his teammates based on 'nancy's an early bird she's probably asleep'; 'creature would check out after post 12 whatever his alignment'; 'auro i haven't met'

=

What even is this Skitter wagon!?!?

I've gotta look into it at some point

Yes you should, especially if you truly do scumread me. I doubt it but I mean if you do you should try to figure out why.

I mean that this kinda popped up out of the blue and I want to look into why and how so I can glean intentions and alignments.

Why and how are you using that to be snide about my read on you?
Honestly.

Because quite simply put RC thinks very little of me as either alignment. The mention of the no kill argument while pushing me claiming to be a gambiter was very much spoonfed from someone who only has limited experience with my scummeta.

My biggest rule for scum is if town is being stupid let them continue to be stupid and encourage it. Gambits are only if I and/or my team am not in a secure position. With the gamestate it was the end of D1, none of that applied. This means that skitter who has only seen Extra Communication in which I replaced a heavily scumread slot, and Nancy with whom I replaced into a slot that Titus bombed would naturally think I lean towards gambits. My scum game is much more control and that misrep would only come from players feeding RC information. RC quite frankly thinks I suck at mafia and probably less than a bug. So mainly the more he pushes and flails the more he gives out. It’s quite funny actually.

i'm sorry, is your argument here acutally:

- someone else spoonfed rc the argument that scum!you may have no killed
- and that person might be me based off of a game that take place two years ago (you seem to think that i know your feelings about gambitting from that game because ...; that game means that i might think that this is something you would do because )
- or ari via nancy because you repped into a slot that titus messed up ?
- and rc doesn't come to this conclusion by himself because ...
- like if he thinks you suck at mafia he's less likely to think of scum!you no killing than i am to think that of scum!you

is that what you're trying to argue ???

and that's part of the reason me/rc/(maybe ari) are aligned ???

[skitter30]

Nah. Your plan is you dead by EoD.

math if you think yesterday was theatre between me and rc designed for me to bus him today why do i not start out the day hard-pushing him

does any of your reasons for scumreading me actually make sense with my actions here ... ?

like can you articualte why i'm scum in a way that actually makes sense or like

[skitter30]

VOTE

This post is ugly af.

Surely Skitter can figure out if Ari is town or scum by doing her own investigation.

Instead she takes RC at his word that she is incapable of scumhunting wtf?

this is an awful misrep of my position at that point in the game, ty

[skitter30]

because in spite of her general scum competency she can't function in real time as scum and i forced her into real time engagement with me several times and she wasn't her bland emotionless rote scum self in real time

^^^ i'm like hilariously out of my scumrange here

[skitter30]

because in spite of her general scum competency she can't function in real time as scum and i forced her into real time engagement with me several times and she wasn't her bland emotionless rote scum self in real time

Wrong: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=29653

She can do it it’s just exhausting. Look at the final few posts post game. She won an award for it.

math do you actually think my game here looks anything like my game there ... ?
because i find it hard to believe that you can actually argue that in good faith

[skitter30]

i was kinda running out of motivation tho and just wanted the day to be over so i could have a break and like ... not have to post for a while so i just decided to hammer you because then you wouldn't be there to call me out on my illogic, but nothing i said there made much sense at all. like it sounded good but didn't actually mean anything or explain why i was voting you. i did wonder if anybody was going to notice that i didn't scumread you at any point till like the day before i voted you

^^ Direct quote from Skitter.

She can do it she just gets exhausted and her reads make less sense.

and that quote describes me here because ... ?
(this is also like a cherry-picked quote that described a very different gamestate but whatever)

[skitter30]

NSG right now believes we should be lynching Duckling not Aristophanes but I'm trying to sell her on the associative read.

@rc you said that n sg wanted to lynch tw
and then last night you said that she didn't

so can you clarify what happened here please ?

[skitter30]

skipping all the math/rc posturing

[skitter30]

it would be easier if you could just link that post maybe because your iso is literally like 1600 pages long and i don't remember where that happened

[skitter30]

ok i'll try to look

basically i remembe ryou saying repeatedly that nsg thinks tw is scum and that she wants him dead
so when you say today 'oh yeah i made that up' it makes me a little wary that you're making up stuff/reads that didn't happen to suit your agenda

[skitter30]

I had a negative result and don't think there is any gain from sharing it.
Think that there's a reasonably high probability that scum simply elected not to kill to make sure I couldn't get a guilty before I was lynched today.
(and before someone says that would add credence to my claim, no not really because someone who scumreads me is going to point that out and say it's scum me trying to spew town)

Can someone summarize which claims have been out already?

shos why do u keep asking about these sorts of things wrt mechanics and claims

[skitter30]

It’s RC’s actions that prompted me to think RC+Skitter. Namely RC got toxic anytime Skitter scum was mentioned. So by having Skitter post and if she seems townie then it’s a matter of finding what scum!RC would gain or what town!RC gains by doing so.

i also think that this is an egregious misrep but ok

[skitter30]

Why do you townread Skitter RCE? I can’t find your answer?

None of Skitters play is outside of her scumrange this game. Even the spat with RC day 1 is in her scumrange but the fact it happened is town indicative. Her frustration with the gamestate was townie and even though it's how I was feeling at the time I think she was the first to express it. It would have been easier to lay low there.

In general it's easy to gauge her alignment from just genuine interest/disinterest and shes been invested in this game beyond surface level. Her analysis is able to be replicated as scum but it doesn't lead anywhere and it doesn't hold any drive behind it. Meaning you can easily pick it apart and force scum!Skitter to backtrack. None of that lines up here.

I disagree. Anyone with a best scum award is a hard read as scum. The scum game she won she was very good. Genuine doesn’t always mean town.

And I cited where it did.

You even mentioned after TW voted Skitter RC reflexively put TW as scum. This isn’t hard to see.

I want to be able to read Skitter for myself. And if I see it I will back off.

math again you don't even know what my scumgame looks like so no offense but why does your meta read hold more weight than the multiple people who have, in fact, played with scum me and/or are intimately aware of what my scumgame looks like

[skitter30]

@rc i think i'm conflating two different nsg mentions

and that i was thinking about late day1
and you were referencing early/mid day1

[skitter30]

ok i'm caught up

@math i am heavily inclined to vote you rn, because as far as i can tell, pretty much your entire scumread on me is:

- vagaries and generalities that you're not substantiating (she's just doing scummy things !)
- fears that i may be deepwolfing and citing my scum meta as a reason to scum read, while neglecting the fact that: a) this game looks literally nothing like the game you're citing b) there are multiple other people in this game who actually know how to read me
- 'weird rc stuff' that seems to be more on rc's side than on my side, and p much everything you're accusing me of doesn't actually make sense wrt the actions i have actually taken this game; like the reasoning you're attributing to my play doesn't actually make sense when you think about it for more than like three seconds
- there have also been several misreps of my play today
- as far as i can tell this whole thing started beacuse you put words in my mouth and accused me of being scum because i apparently knew that there would be a mislynch today because i indicated that massclaim might be a possibility tomorrow (which, again, doesn't make much sense ... )

i need you to articulate, in your own words, exactly why i'm scum here
and throw in why i'm scum with rc too for good measure

but so far what you're pushing me on doesn't actually make sense and is woefully inaccurate

also i am *incredibly* suspicious of how fast that wagon built
i think that there's more than one scum on that wagon

[skitter30]

Lets pick a lynch thats not in Math/RC/Skitter

how are you actually reading me and who do you want to lynch rn ?

[skitter30]

shos (plum)
maybe now math
your slot (was kinda townreading u last night but i'm not feeling it anymore)

and then there's a bunch of people that are like ~null/nullscum, at least in part because they haven't been posting much (flopz xtoxm bella possibly someone else i'm forgetting)

[skitter30]

math and ico have an interesting dynamic

idk not sure they both as scum decide that i'm randomly today's lynch and hop on a wagon 1-2 tho ?

[skitter30]

you're not being solve-y enough rn

[skitter30]

You’re commiting gambler’s fallacy by referencing prior games
In this game I know he was wrong and claimed BoP for it.

i don't understand what you mean here
i hope your irl things go well

but i do want you to articulate why you were scumreading me exactly because you've been remarkably vague and hand-wave-y and most of your poitns have not made sense and i don't understand this push on me at all

[skitter30]

can we just stop getting distracted and wagon shos now plz

[skitter30]

you're not being solve-y enough rn

yeah im sorry im not solving your game replacing into a 150 page game with RC here

yeah ok fair enough

[skitter30]

You know it could literally just be xtoxm shos tris right

i can see that sure

so can we just like wagon some of them already instead of letting them lurk while we talk about you/me/math/ari etc etc etc

[skitter30]

This game literally is the least pleasant mafia experience I have had in my life.

FWIW, it’s second for me, to a game I modded with your alt, so ..... I think the feeling is common but comments like these set the malaise in more.

yeah i actively try to pretend that one didn't happen, sorry :/

[skitter30]

tyty

a vc soon would be nice

[skitter30]

wasn't i in that one ???

[skitter30]

wait i think we're talking about two different games maybe ...

[skitter30]

i need math to engage with me
i'm kinda waiting for that
but i am considering voting for him

[skitter30]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=77349

[skitter30]

i want him to articulate his sr on me
because he's been dodging that and hadn't managed to explain it in a cogent way in the like 12 pages that he was voting me

[skitter30]

if he's not going to be here until like tuesday i'm not sure what the point of doing so rn is
but yeah we need to followup on that

[skitter30]

ya my read is i guess fundementally meta read ... not entirely sure i know how to separate the meta from the read here ...

[skitter30]

also again, to clarify, i find the notion that scum purposefully did not nk last night to be ridiculous

[skitter30]

i was kinda thinkign that at start of day but like ... the way he's been engaging in the past day or so is making it hard for me to be confident in a town!math read rn

[skitter30]

I started to type out my take on the past day or so but realized you might not want me to pollute the waters. You want me to provide my take on it or you want to let it wait for him?

Go for it

[skitter30]

Town: rce, ari
Not town: shos, probably saudade, possibly math

Somewhere in between like they need more content for me to actually be able to read them: flopz, xtoxm, bella

Townbinning for today : rc

I need to reavaluate teacher because i think the model i have in my head of him is wrong

Gun to head i guess town!ico , i think he probably isnt scum with math

As i write this out i realize i have fewer strong trs than i would like

[skitter30]

Can we just wagon shos already ???
I've been trying for like five irl days but we keep getting distracted with all of this bickering and i'm baffled that i keep pushing it and literally nobody townreads him but that i cant get this above like three votes

Like my wagon happened easier than this one ....

Also i no longer tr math but i want to push somewhelse else rn that isnt me/math/rc/ari because how else are we going to make the quiet people do things, as i've also been saying for like 5 irl days

@math @ ico
Can you two articulare why you either :
A) townread shos
B) dont want to wagon him

Because as far as i'm aware you've done neither but keep sidestepping this wagon each time i've tried to revive it

[skitter30]

Wagoning an inactive player doesn’t teach us anything.
Very rarely does it actually get the person to show up sooner than they could if not wagoned.
It’s literally unreadable garbage.

So how do u want to sort them exactly ...

Also iirc werent you advocating for pushing ari durinf that week when he said he would be gone until sunday ???

[skitter30]

Shos wagon is a scum motivated wagon

How exactly are u reading me saudade

[skitter30]

i'm around nominally, i guess
but i'm not having a great mental health day and i don't have super much energy for this tonight

also all of shos's posts in the last couple of pages have been p awful

[skitter30]

i want shos's teamreads before hammer

[skitter30]

rc do you think shos' ico vote is partner indicative ?

tyty

[skitter30]

yeah can we take a raincheck and try to do it tomorrow?
i don't think i have the energy needed to have a real discussion rn

[skitter30]

tyty

[skitter30]

Saudade looks like a shos partner

[skitter30]

i'm getting a little nervous by the broad popular support of the shos thing
like once i posted yesterday all of a sudden like 6/7 people indicated interest and it got to l-1 p fast, with multiple giving l-1 and/or stating an intent

[skitter30]

also @shos were your teammates reading along throughout the whole game, or did their activity/participation ramp up just after you repped in ?

[skitter30]

also i disagree with the shos/team rce scumread ???

[skitter30]

no i'm rereading because i skimmed before, give me a sec

[skitter30]

going to stop spamming, other assorted thoughts:

- ico posting in the past day or so has been townie af
- i strongly disagree with the shos/team rce scumread and i don't super love that they're angling to push there
- the catchup itself is kinda decent, but the posts he's made while interacting with the thread on his own yesterday were p awful ... like when he has people feeding him thoguhts his posting is decent but his own posting is just kinda bad ? like the ico vote yesterday was p awful and was based on taking a variety of things out of context
- i'm trying to gauge what part of the game his team read ... the meat of the catchup is within the last 20 pages or so, i'm not sure if they just started reading to give him thoughts when he got to l-1/l-2 or if those were thoughts that they had all along as things developed
- @teacher, @ico what do you think about shos / team catchup?
- i'm kinda confused by the wagon dynamics overall - i couldn't get this going for like forever, finally yesterday after yet another appeal it reaches l-1/intent pretty quickly, with multiple people giving intent, and then when the team catchup thing happens multiple people unvote without engaging the meat of it
- ari is still obvtown
- idk if scum!saudade comes into this game with this trajectory on rc unless he's like exactly scum with shos ... like if he's scum with not-shos why doesn't he just join the shos thing instead of poking rc. or i guess he could be scum with rc but even so then why doesn't he join the push that rc has been backing ?
- i don't want to lynch rc today
- i am kinda interested in wagoning math tbh. but i literally don't have the energy to wrangle another toxic thing rn so i'm not sure if i want to do this and i'm not sure avoiding it is the right decision either

OK so I've been going backwards first before I start ISOing shit. I currently have *FIVE* votes on me. Can anyone tell me why? I mean is this reminiscent from Plum or are we like, actually voting me before I even know your names?

pedit
sure thing, go

mostly because i've been pushing you since daystart
(well, really plum, not you)
i dislike most of her content yesterday and i thought her vote on tw was the worst, felt like scum taking advantage of a significant conflict to score a mislynch
and your pop-in yesterday was scary bad
also you/saud as a pair have quite a lot of partner equity going all the way back to like p1

[skitter30]

i'm getting a little nervous by the broad popular support of the shos thing
like once i posted yesterday all of a sudden like 6/7 people indicated interest and it got to l-1 p fast, with multiple giving l-1 and/or stating an intent

I would suggest catching up entirely.

RC did his whole back off the wagon soon as I asked a question bit of shos.

I would like your opinion on that.

I realize shos has not answered the question I want your opinion of RC’s reaction to me asking it.

i thought ur question was decent, rc's reaction was bad but probably not ai

[skitter30]

sigh

i'm kinda at the point where reading you two bicker is just making me want to nope tf out of the thread

[skitter30]

i mean wouldn't that necessitate town!shos getting lynched today tho ?

[skitter30]

i still think shos is scum
if he flips scum i think that a good place to start looking for partners is in {saudade, math, ico}. also teacher, i think

if he flips town my view of the gamestate is very very very wrong and i will need to start rebulding my understanding of the game kinda from scratch; i would be looking at rc in that universe, tho i think, yes

[skitter30]

i'll be back in a sec, sorry

[skitter30]

yes it would but my point is that saudade's actions make sense as scum either with or without shos. if shos is town sau can still reasonably expect 1/2 of me or shos to be the lynch today.

oh yeah i kinda see your point actually

[skitter30]

i kinda just give up tbh.

yeah i'm feeling like this game is ... very hard
hard to play
hard to navigate

[skitter30]

i still think shos is scum
if he flips scum i think that a good place to start looking for partners is in {saudade, math, ico}. also teacher, i think

if he flips town my view of the gamestate is very very very wrong and i will need to start rebulding my understanding of the game kinda from scratch; i would be looking at rc in that universe, tho i think, yes

Elaboration on why you’d look at that grouping would be appreciated.

- you because you started freaking out on me when i kept pushing shos's slot, and you never really gave a good reason for that whole push
- saudade because of all the tris/plum stuff, and he's just ... utterly rejecting the shos wagon for like no reason ?
- i'm a little nervous about shos's ico vote, it felt-distance-y. but this is entirely on shos's side and i think that independantly i tr ico. least strong of the associatives
- teacher is something that i'm still mulling over but i noticed in the catchup today his team brought up a sr on teacher, he didn't end up in their final list of reads. and i don't partiuclarly like teacher's vote (and/or intent, i don't remember which), unvote on promising to read through shos's catchup later, but not following through with that. felt like an excuse to hop off the wagon to me a bit idk this isn't like a ~strong thought~ yet it's some things that are tickling the back of my mind

[skitter30]

I’m still grading and binging suits, but will get on latter. @skit - I wanted to reread the ketchup, it was difficult to parse but seemed oddly tilted towards weird times to read into and designed to give the lamisty flavor of an entirely new take, but one that wouldn’t find support when read against plums real-time posting (something I hav not done but mean to). Overall, it didn’t buy a ticket out of my Lynch pool but it did but some time for reflection whenever I do sit at a comp.

oh fair enough, i hadn't seen this yet, i would like to hear ur thoughts on it when you get to a pc

yeah i think that this is kinda what i'm wondering ... like i'm not sure that all of these thoughts weren't generated for the event of shos reaching intent, esp. since it seems to be back-heavy focused (i.e. most of the thoughts of the team seem about things that happened in the last couple of irl days)
and not that much with when plum was around (/ not around)

how are you reading ari rn

[skitter30]

from my point of view, like, with the sheer density of my townreads on the wagons that aren't RC there literally have to be scum on that wagon
also from a gamestate sense if you take for granted that i'm town doesn't it seem pretty damn likely that at least one scum wants to be voting there

like i can believe that there's at least one scum on the other side who is hard towning me to stay on my good side but like there's also probably scum driving the opposition

and on a personal level if that group is entirely town i just truly don't care if it's a loss, whereas i think that the scum pulling that shit needs to be punished

sorry was this at me ?

[skitter30]

unvote on promising to read through shos's catchup later, but not following through with that.

Um it’s been like 6 hours. You of all people I would expect to respect real life. Bite me.

fair enough, sorry

[skitter30]

yes, that was at you, but regarding the wagon on me.

i think that rce is town but i do agree that there's significant scum equity in {math/saudade}

[skitter30]

for outing the fact that a person clearly did not protect you and therefore has no outed claim, I am somehow more scummy than I was before. That is what you're implying?

i'm so confused by this conversation

[skitter30]

that thought crossed my mind yesterday (?) based on the weird mutual townreads

but i don't think ico either did or didn't claim protective. like idk where rc thinks that was disporoven or where ico claimed either

[skitter30]

@rce why are you voting rc rn ?

[skitter30]

anyway, I'm not telling you to who to vote and unless NSG both shows up and has a clear scumread I'm just going to end up voting whoever you do for ~town unity~

i'm debating if i want to stay on shos or if i want to wagon math

i think i would want to wagon math but i don't want to deal with the bickering/infighting i'm p sure would ensue

if i'm being honest i'm still in a bit of a funk and that is at least in part coloring this / determinign how much energy i can bring towards that rn
(i hope i'll snap out of it in a day or two, i usually do ... )

[skitter30]

i think i'd prefer shos or math, yeah

[skitter30]

i think he's kinda easy to read when he gets into a semi-serious phase and i kinda don't want to dismantle the shos wagon and i sr math more

but part of the math read was kinda like ~teamreading him with ico~ but if he thought ico protected him and thought ico was signaling him to that effect that probably explains some of the weirdness there
and that would be a weird thing to do as partners, i think

i'm a little scared that if i unvote shos we'll have let him get off for the team catchup thing and that rebuilding that will be devilishly hard
like i'm not sure how it just kinda collapsed ?

[skitter30]

i strongly prefer shos over rc

ico i hope you're doing ok with ur concussion

[skitter30]

@Skit, FWIW, Ari's step back on RCE was after both you and Ico indicated it was a no go. Youre right that it was before RC, but it was following the temperature of the board. I still do feel better than I did two days ago, but did the re-read as well. LMK if you want more specifics on how I felt then or now.

ok thanks, i remembered wrong then.
i don't really feel like he's been that sheep-y / consensus-y tbh; he was staunchly against tw yesterday when that was at the height of its fervor, and is even now being stubborn against voting rc

if he's scum trying to be consensus-y he's had multiple oppurtunites to do when it would have been advantageous to him, but has repeatedly chosen not to

[skitter30]

Shos lynch does clear Skitter completely, and it heavily implicates scum!RC. So it looks like a better lynch but ya'll get a very big say in this

Why do you say this?

Scum working to bus a useless slot is NAI?

yes, i agree that i randomly start the day doing my best to bus my partner when i would have had roughly 4000 easier and more beneficial lynches to go after, good plan

[skitter30]

I hardclaim mason

Possibly 3+ confirmable townies fwiw.

i'm like 80% certain that's a meme

i would have said 100% up to a couple of weeks ago - i was masons with him in a normal that just ended and a signficant portion of his posts looked exactly like that one so eh

[skitter30]

Sorry everyone, I very astutely expected to have free time while on holiday. So now I'm about 50 pages behind.
It's lazy to ask but who have each of the two new roles switched with? I'm assuming Sho has swapped with Tris due to the current votes.
Maths why the move away from Ari to RC?

good god this is awful

[skitter30]

math get over your ari/rc thing
i'm p sure you're just wrong

[skitter30]

And none of the top 3 players in TM that worry me when I'm scum are on that team.

out of curiosity, who would these be ?

[skitter30]

hey i'm around for an hour or so, if anyone wants to talk
i'm reading through now

[skitter30]

hey i'm around for an hour or so, if anyone wants to talk
i'm reading through now

You should really catch up.

Before you start what are your scum reads?

I wanna see if/how they change.

i've been skimming, but i'm having trouble keeping up and engaging as much as i like ... i don't play in larges for a reason and i literally can't be here as often as this game demands and/or catch up as i usually do in other games every night without it starting to mess with other parts of my life

shos, flopz, saudade too
and still a few other people in the null pile that i don't have a good read on

[skitter30]

math do u want to talk about why your'e scumreading me?

rc, hi, i know that you have a lot you want to talk to me about

[skitter30]

or @math can you at least direct me to posts that you want me to respond to?

[skitter30]

teacher i'm not sure that any of the things you've listed about rc are scum indicative here tbh

[skitter30]

i can be here till ~10:30 est but then i gotta bounce, i have to be at work an hour and half early tomorrow, fml

[skitter30]

i mean unless this is an elaborate scum gambit just town

[skitter30]

@skit, I agree. That wasn’t me trying to acumcase him, that was me explaining why I’m not dead set on his lynch if you want me to give the scum reasons, I can do that too.

ya i'd like to hear that plz

[skitter30]

i'm about a page after the last time i was here, which was last night

i skimmed during the day so i have a general sense of what's going on and know that you want to talk to me, but i haven't read it in depth

[skitter30]

i think he's kinda easy to read when he gets into a semi-serious phase and i kinda don't want to dismantle the shos wagon and i sr math more

but part of the math read was kinda like ~teamreading him with ico~ but if he thought ico protected him and thought ico was signaling him to that effect that probably explains some of the weirdness there
and that would be a weird thing to do as partners, i think

i'm a little scared that if i unvote shos we'll have let him get off for the team catchup thing and that rebuilding that will be devilishly hard
like i'm not sure how it just kinda collapsed ?

Specifically this one here.

Skitter says they scumread me more after the protective claim but is acting like they want Shos more. This is very odd. She didn’t go into why and shaded her own thoughts just a bit later.

It’s reaaaaally bad.

you realize that:
- i indicated that that if the protective thing was real it explained some of the weird ico/math things i'd been seeing
- so while i had scumread you at the time i acknowledged that if ico had actually protected you it would change matters significantly
- this post came before ico confirmed the protection
- i still scumread shos
- i explained why i didn't want to unvote him
- i had also around there indicated that although i had wanted to wagon you i literally didn't have the energy for it ...
- not sure why your'e shading me for that

[skitter30]

i think saudade's tone has devolved into resembling that of his scumgame, i'd be intersted in wagoning there i think

[skitter30]

She shaded her own wagon by calling me toxic when I haven’t been except for the poor word choice which I apologized for.

???

[skitter30]

A. Lack of PR!Rc death
B. Lack of vig or other balance for detective
C. Pirouetting like a top on too many reads
D. Pushing the future clear, after picking up crumbs
E. Making thread unreadable
F. Heavy ate
G. Lack of town cohesion- despite the remarkable level of mutual townreads, town hasn’t been able to work together, and I think RC is the cause of that, as he has blown up multiple wagons he built/pushed/supported (flopz,Ari,shos). Note that this is different than thread unread ability.
H. BoP on Duck and math.

i think g and h are valid
i don't think the rest is necessarily ai or scum indicative him in this context unforatunately, although a lot of it is making the game really hard to play
and g might be a function of E and F which again idk is ai for him and he can actually control/stop doing that so eh

h is signficant tho, yeah

[skitter30]

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing doc!Ico on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

yes, 5197 is before 5130, indeed
if he confirmed protective before that i didn't see it

[skitter30]

See if I had two vigs I would shoot Skitter and shoot you if she was red.

And I strongly suspect she is.

She is night and day different than Extra Communication.

She talked more about people’s reads and clears even if they were on her scumspect.

She just feels wrong.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p9773618

She cites posts and cases. There’s something off with her.

I have to go to bed now but Ico RCE and me I could townblock. I can’t do you and Skitter though.

oh ffs

this might be because :
- people's meta could possibly change after 2+ years
- this game is drastically different than that one
- casing in a micro that grows ~3 pages a day (or however much it does) is vastly different than in a game this size, where the game is growing at 10+ pages a day, at minimum, and some days it grows more than double than that. i literally don't wnat to wade into anyone's iso because finding anything would be impossible

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Really tempted to just go after RC who is now trying to openwolf imo by going after the townblock as you say

It’s tempting but if RC is scum his end goal is to be lynched today so we need to extract as much out of the day if we decide RC is scum.

Plus there’s this whole if RC is scum either he’s trying to throw shade on a protective or create one where none exists to deep wolf with the “no kill” theory. Would be nice to sort which. Do you follow Ico?

I hear ya

Shade? I'm pointing out that everyone's been assuming you were a protective with an inno on Mathblade when that's not true and it was the main reason to townread both of you.

sure i'm a protective

better tell your team to come kill me

Pedit you said you were concerned about associatives

C’mon Skitter how do expect me to believe you’re town here when you’re not following your town meta? And your scumread made no chronological sense

and given context at the time i'm supposed to take those literally ?

math your expectations for how you think i should play and how i actually do play are kinda ridiculous

it might behoove you to check a recent towngame (or more accurately, a towngame where i felt overwhelmed) and compare to how i'm playing here than a game from 2+ years and several playstyles ago

and your timeline is whack and you're expecting me to know that ico is a protective after posts like these ???

like you're complaining that i didn't townread you for being protected before ... it was confiremd that you were protected

do you not realize how silly that is ?

[skitter30]

c) Look at the way that Saudade interacted before and after I started going after him instead. Before I went after him he was just shitposting and meming and he wasn't -really- trying to get me lynched. Do you believe that he makes the posts that he did and posts the youtube videos actually trying to get me lynched over Shos? That really wasn't going to happen. However, after I went after him, he got a lot more serious and started to try to make a meaningful case and everything and is actually pushing as opposed to just what Ari described as "meming".
Like I said before, I think that all the evidence in the thread is that Saudade was setting me up to take the fall for the Shos lynch but he didn't want to actually derail the wagon onto me at that point in time. Then when I was no longer pushing something useful to scum he got serious and is actually aiming to have me lynched. If he's scum with Shos, why would he be so low effort about defending him versus when it was his life was at stake when Shos is immediately going after me and he's made no effort to dispel that pairing? Or town? Whereas if he's scum and Shos is town, well, the situation changes and there's a lot of gain to be had from setting up the push on me but not actually preventing Shos from going down.

ok a few things wrt to saudade:

- i think that the best way to read him is on tone; he's ridiculously more bluster-y and fake and bravado-y and idk the right words exactly but like 'being fake and spammy and like more confident than he has any right to be'
when he first repped in his tone didn't quite match that, but once he started going after you that's basically what all of his posting his
it's hard to quantify the tone thing exactly because he kinda does similar things as town too but it's like taken up to eleven as scum if that makes sense
i don't think he's actually like being serious in most of his endeavors in getting you lycnhed
or that's not quite the right way to put it - he's being serious but he doesn't seem to have reasons or like ~feelings~ that would back up the stregnth of the read/push on you. he's pushing it but there's nothing behind it imo
- i've thought about the timing of saudade's push on you in comparison with the shos wagon, and i think that it does kinda make sense from a scum perspective - i think he'd rather get town!rc lynched than town!shos. i'm not sure that he'd be planning ahead like that tho, idk if that's how he approaches the game tbh
- i'm not sold on shos town tho

pedit sigh give me a minute

[skitter30]

Like even if you don't agree with all of my reads you must agree that Plum has voted basically all the slots that are likely to be scum; who is she supposed to be scum with?

this is a cogent point too

[skitter30]

i can be here till ~10:30 est but then i gotta bounce, i have to be at work an hour and half early tomorrow, fml

Hey skitty! I too am around to chat atm if you got shit for me

I also have a 12 hour work day tomorrow so I feel ya ahaha

hey, how are you still feeling about the shos wagon ?

[skitter30]

It’s been discussed multiple times where I was pissed at RC for outing the supposed “jail keeper”.
viewtopic.php?p=11529271#p11529271

It was the main thread of conversation.

Either you’re not reading at all which is wrong otherwise no shos vote happens or you don’t shade me because the entire context was regarding protectives.

Ico was outed as a protective.

The shade on me was likely to get Ico to out as exactly what kind of protective.

Something that takes experienced scum like you or RC

dude it happened been confirmed yet
expecting me to drop a scumread on a dime when there was signficant confusion / contention wrt the potential protective (i.e. the convo you're referring to you were saying that ico had protected you and rc was saying that he found a crumb for ico *not* protected you) is silly at best, and also kinda egocentric/egotistical

like i get it, from your pov, you thoguht it was obvious, but i'm not playing from your pov

and i'm not just going to drop a scumread because the guy i'm scumreading is trying to push a narrative that he's confirmed town when it hadn't been backed up yet

[skitter30]

You have been skimming.

yes i admitted to skimming, your point ... ?

[skitter30]

i can be here till ~10:30 est but then i gotta bounce, i have to be at work an hour and half early tomorrow, fml

Hey skitty! I too am around to chat atm if you got shit for me

I also have a 12 hour work day tomorrow so I feel ya ahaha

hey, how are you still feeling about the shos wagon ?

Heya!

I like the makeup of the wagon minus Flopz who should do SOMETHING but I kinda want to give the guy a chance here. He's legit putting efforts forth and I want to see what he has to say! And I have a feeling it might take an extra day phase to get that tbh. No harm in letting him live the day tbh because if he doesn't deliver he's done.

What do you think of a shift to Saudade?

flopz is scaring me tbh,
i kinda feel like he's had a lot of time to sort of gather thoguths and like ~play~ he's been here since mid-day1 already (like pre rc/tw i think because i remember he voted you during the ehight of your wagon in one of his first posts) and i still feel like we don't have much out of him

rc can you repeat why you're townreading flopz again? because i find that read to be kinda inexplicable.
also the bella one

i'm ok with shifting to saudade
VOTE: saudade

[skitter30]

You have been skimming.

yes i admitted to skimming, your point ... ?

And you never saw the word protective or bothered to look up the outed theory so you skim with context? Bull shit

i saw those two posts (i'm p sure at least)
the connotation of those posts aren't serious, they're meme-y/joking.
expecting me to take them as a serious claim when they weren't in context is kinda silly

[skitter30]

math i think your'e just annoyed at me for calling you scummy when i guess from your pov it was already obvious that you were mechanically town
(it wasn't)

and if it werent' for the mechanical piece i think i would still be scumreading u for the record

[skitter30]

like the things your'e hanging up on wrt me are just kinda bizarre and inexplicable and if you actually thought about them for a little bit mroe you'd realize that they don't actually make much sense and/or aren't actual reasons to scumread me

[skitter30]

Flopz just tonally feels like newbtown to me and I don't see any evidence that he's not. I think the "I think you're town but maybe you're fooling me" is out of his scumrange if he posted the rest of the game as scum.

Bellaphant is a lot more like ethereal but like she takes really good stances on things and her salt with me about the last day and about the mathblade push felt genuine town.

this might be a weird take but if you were scum here it would be with flopz, i think
i really just don't see newbtown there at all. i see a lot of wolfy-pop ins and convenient posts

and bella ... i just idk
i literally can't remember like any of her takes and all of her posts have kinda faded from my memeory
i just don't have a read there

[skitter30]

flopz is scaring me tbh,
i kinda feel like he's had a lot of time to sort of gather thoguths and like ~play~ he's been here since mid-day1 already (like pre rc/tw i think because i remember he voted you during the ehight of your wagon in one of his first posts) and i still feel like we don't have much out of him

Yeah, it's a slot we need shit from because yes, IIRC they jumped on me opportunistically like they did Shos and it's just yuck.

exactly, yeah

[skitter30]

You have been skimming.

yes i admitted to skimming, your point ... ?

And you never saw the word protective or bothered to look up the outed theory so you skim with context? Bull shit

I believe you’re overreadibg this interaction, regardless of skits alignment.

I don’t think so. I may be bad at explaining but Skitter failed that reaction test so hard.

She should have still been scumreading me. Unless she was already aware of the inno there’s no reason for that much of a shift.

math you're concocting a timeline that doesn't exist

[skitter30]

ephemeral is a good word btw
idk i feel like a play a lot of newbies and if i saw that in a newbie i don't think i'd be townreading it

[skitter30]

Do you agree with me that I have a tendency to have townreads that you don't really end up seeing and they're often on slots that look ~like~ that one? (and vice versa ofc, but)

not necessarily tbh

[skitter30]

You’re trying to deny that it does. You don’t have a logical thought process.

You are trying to do what suits you instead of what town you would know.

math you're measuring up the thought process i had against things that didn't happen and findign me scummy that my thought process doesn't match the timeline that doesn't exist

i really don't know what else you want me to say beyond for the fact that you're kinda just wrong

i already explained my thought process, and what i was thinking wrt the protective thing at the time

the fact that you wanted me to take a meme post from 1000+ posts before this incident as proof that you had been protected by ico is unreasonable and silly

[skitter30]

I to a massive extent shifted my vocabulary downward to make myself more ~charismatic~ in a mafiascum sense
This is really just a weird game for me because my mafiascum persona is just depleted and I'm kinda just winging it and doing my best with what I can and i'm surprised no one has called me out yet for having a weird tone because my tone is probably impossible to reconcile with either my traditional town or scum game because it's more RL me slipping through

yeah i vibe with both of these things
sometimes my SAT calendar word-of-the-day comes through anyways tho

and yeah your tone is weird af when compared to what i think of your town/scum games but i think on balance it comes from town!you that's upset and frustrated over scum!you tbh

[skitter30]

Like... if they're scum they're a lot more experienced than they've let on and have successfully faked inexperience for much of the thread then bringing out super townie thought processes when they need them
I really think that their D2 interaction with me was out of a lot of players' scum ranges and I thought them being like "lol Math wasn't the NK" was really unlikely to come from scum at that level

I guess I can't argue that if you think that we're scum together but I am flipping town at some point so

i actually kinda got the vibe that they had experience elsewhere tbh
like i don't read them as newbie at all
did he say what his experience was?

can you just pull a few of the posts that you liked ?

also i need to go in a few minutes because i need to wake up early tom

[skitter30]

also reminder that i probably won't be back until saturday ngiht due to weekend v/la
(and there is a possibility this week of maybe not even until sunday morning because i think i have an event saturday that i need to go to)

[skitter30]

Town me is a lot more liable to get super pissed off and fail to maintain the persona. I really do not give a whole lot of fucks as scum, lol. even in gameshow I was kinda over it.

yeah i kinda wonder what you're like under the persona
i project some stuff too when i play, i think

like that's kinda what i'm saying, i don't think you'd get this pissed as scum, i think you'd be a lot more ~cool calm and collected and focused~ as scum here as opposed to being all over the place

[skitter30]

oh wait he has less experience than i thought he did
huh

ok i'll need to relook at his posts in that light then

[skitter30]

I would honestly say I'm less pissed off about this game and more really sad about it because it's been the opposite of what I wanted it to be and I feel like I was set up to fail basically.

sorry :/

i don't think i was setup to fail but yeah this experience didn't quite live up to what i wanted it to be either

[skitter30]

ok i'm gonna bounce cuz i need to wake up early tom, have a good night y'all

[skitter30]

Really long day, i'll be around tom

[skitter30]

omg hi

Hi! And bye !

[skitter30]

hey i'm around, catching up now

[skitter30]

Gonna be 50 50 on sitter or math

Please put your 50/50 on someone else besides Skitter.

I may not be able to explain well.

I may be fail town but I have been trying so hard not to be tunnelly Math but if scum kill Skitter and prove me wrong it would really help. She’s not reading. Like I am just depressed.

I feel like I know things I can’t explain and it’s depressing.

hi

explain why exactly you're scumreading me

because the first time it basically boiled down to 'she's scum !!!' and you literally ignored about a dozen posts of mine countering points and it just kinda fizzed out

and this time most of your reasons, to be blunt, are silly, and you're ignoring me when i point this out

and it's starting to be annoying because you won't really engage with me on it when i try to talk to you but you keep shouting out that you think i'm scum

[skitter30]

like i'm trying here to figure out what the problem is but you won't respond to anything that i say beyond for retreating back to like three points: 'she failed my reaction test!' and 'she's scum with ari and rc' and 'she's scum on meta' and 'idk she just feels scummy' and when i try to talk to you about it in more detail you don't really continue the conversation so like

[skitter30]

i haven't really read the current rce debacle, so idk yet

[skitter30]

i still think shos is scum
if he flips scum i think that a good place to start looking for partners is in {saudade, math, ico}. also teacher, i think

if he flips town my view of the gamestate is very very very wrong and i will need to start rebulding my understanding of the game kinda from scratch; i would be looking at rc in that universe, tho i think, yes

Despit the above, and considering the plum hasn't had much time or mind to delve into this shit-canyon of a game (I just made this up), could you tell me why you scumread plum?
I don't have anything to do with that, I know, but I really want to solidify a first strong read in this game and if you provide this will be so much easier)

it was primarily from plum day1, it didn't inherently have much to do with her activity or nonactivity
it was more that she:

-> had weird associatives with the tris slot (saudade now), which has kinda continued on saudade's side with you and how he's interacting with your wagon
-> utterly hated her vote on tw
-> just generally didn't townread much of anything she did

[skitter30]

How far have you read up to?

i'm on p 237

[skitter30]

Skitter30 is scum here for voting me

uh huh
do tell

[skitter30]

Tbh I'm always partial to a Sausage vote. I saw talk of Scum Saudade cranking his obnoxiousness to 11 and from what I've seen of his previous behaviour this does seem to be somehow be the case. (The fact that you can keep going so high will forever astound me)
VOTE: Saudade
Shift in vote is also based on the voting behaviours of my TR's (mainly Math, Ico and RC).

flopz ngl your votes all kinda scare me, they seem to be just jumping onto the latest bandwagon, and this is at least the third or fourth time you've done it

have you played with saudade before or

[skitter30]

I think I'm done here, 3 out of 5 of the votes on me are there simply because RC is there, the other 2 are scum.
What an awful bunch of sheep you all are

sorry are you positing me/rc rn ?

[skitter30]

u

I'm in one more game rn which Sausage replaced out of.

(sorry i maybe should not have asked this question but this answer gets close to talking about ongoing games so i'm just going to drop this line of reasoning)

I also gave more info on that vote not long after that.

yeah i saw it after, reading in order

Aside from joining a couple TR's and the previous comment about his tone. I'm not a fan of his outright refusal to look at anything pre-sausage. Laziness aside, that provides him with an excuse for whenever he would want to push faulty reasoning and gets called out. The matter of fact way he says he won't reread previous posts doesn't seem very pro Town.

5479 is quite a big misrep and the way he brushes off Ico calling him out on it leaves little to be desired.

italics - i don't think this is much ai, esp. not in a game this size
after that - i agree with your point on 5479

[skitter30]

Yeah we just finished a town game together, you've seen my scum play
Theres no way you read me wrong here

i mean am i supposed to be thinking that this looks like your towngame or

[skitter30]

rc your interactions with flopz tbh feel svs on your side and on his side look like you've pocketed him

[skitter30]

Im the towniestest player on the game and if you wont listen to meee you will loooooose

yeah, ok
i'm dismissing this as noise

[skitter30]

Yeah we just finished a town game together, you've seen my scum play
Theres no way you read me wrong here

i mean am i supposed to be thinking that this looks like your towngame or

What I've said stands dont deflect by asking a rhetorical question

this looks like your scumgame (the one where i was a mason with cheeky ... )
i'm saying that if i'm wrong it would be helpful if you could demonstrate that, but your response is ... not exactly showing me your town here

[skitter30]

i don't know what to say to that; i'm town and i read him as town.

idk that's what it looks like to me
because you're townreading him hard and i don't see it
and he in turn is effectively townreading you for defending him

so the dynamic is a little creepy from over here

[skitter30]

ari i havent been vla 90% wtf
i was vla for like a week and i dont think i even hit a prod timer
i wasnt vla at all on d1 either and was relatively active

i mean this is kinda reinforcing shos' point but ok

xtoxm not doing anything the whole game is kinda ... not good

[skitter30]

i get it. i just don't know how to fix the issue.

like the way you're reading him is how you read me way back when that time we were svs in my like third game onsite

or iirc gemini in that awful newbie that i'm trying to expunge from my memory

[skitter30]

i don't remember the sauade/xtoxm thing you're talking about

[skitter30]

math's approach to the game is just baffling tbh
like i don't get how he comes to his conclusions at all

[skitter30]

What worries me the most is that some of you are musically illiterate

If I had a hatchet
It would be yours to have
'Cause your decapitating habits feel a little bit orgasmic
If I gave you a hatchet
It would be yours to have
I kind of like the feeling when you stab me in the back
Every time i see you
Look me in the eye
I look straight back
'Cause a part of me will die
If I had a hatchet
It would be yours to have
No amount of pain would ever stop me coming back

Another day, another round of mostly math rc ari and me posting
lovely

oh he's just lolcatting now, ok

[skitter30]

Alright
I don't wanna lynch Saudade
Can anyone of those on his wagon tell me why they are there, pleaz?

why don't you want to lynch saudade, please elaborate ty

[skitter30]

i don't really have an answer outside of i'm town and that's how i'm reading him.

idk
it's lowkey creeping me out ngl

also that flopz isn't like paranoid of you white-knighting him (or whatever the current trendy term is idk)

and that he seems to be just plain alright with it

it feels like something is kinda wrong in that pairing

[skitter30]

RCE defending Tris all day yesterday, calling Plum scum but never voting them until the short period it looked like me/Skitter were going to combined lead in Tris/Plum where he said he was fine with voting either,

huh

[skitter30]

i don't really have an answer outside of i'm town and that's how i'm reading him.

idk
it's lowkey creeping me out ngl

also that flopz isn't like paranoid of you white-knighting him (or whatever the current trendy term is idk)

and that he seems to be just plain alright with it

it feels like something is kinda wrong in that pairing

That's not the case, I just never said those specific words publicly.

sorry i'm not sure what you're referring to here

[skitter30]

my point is more that you ultimately dismiss those concerns of scum!rc and just seem kinda content to roll with him townreading you

@flopz

(paranoid might not have been the right word but whatever)

[skitter30]

i think i have had plenty of interactions in plenty of my town games with newbies that are very similar to this where i hard townread them from early on and they townread me for it.
if we're talking purely about flopz you can also consider cases like datisi in that newbie where i was scum

point is that you're paranoid about me because you've seen my scum game for years and know what i can do. flopz hasn't. why wouldn't flopz townread me here?

idk if in a vaccuum i just started playing on a random site and someone i ddin't know started hard hard townreading me and defendign me like this i think i'd be a little worried about their motivations

[skitter30]

FL says this saudade wagon is dumb. The counterwagon is obvious. Also saudade specifically he says go ham.

he goes ham differently as scum and town tho, that's the thing

does he think he's a cw to shos or rc ?

[skitter30]

Oh then the basically FL scumreads Icos iso, which I agreed with up until his plum push. But I'm not great at reading Ico. I think I've misread him every game we've played together as both alignments. So I was still considering it.

He also scumreads him on the basis that RC would be obscuring associates and RC/Skitter felt too blatant. Ergo the associatives would be simpler and less direct.

But I'll also go back and double check because that was a start of day read and I feel I'm misrepping it.

HOLD IT THERE

You're saying that Flavor Leaf, before Iconeum outed as having saved Mathblade, said that Iconeum made sense as scum with me?
But now, following Iconeum claiming protective on Mathblade (which should upend any read), Flavor Leaf has not given an updated read yet you're still giving it as if it's relevant?

That seems like something a town-aligned player would really really really not do!

i feel like your'e kinda taking fl's read out of context
or like making a bigger deal about it than it is ?

like i read rce sharing fl's read as an aside 'oh and this is how fl was reading him in the past' and i kinda feel like you're using this quote out of context ???
i'm not sure i'm explaingin quite right how i feel about this but i think you're not understanding what rce is saying quite correctly

[skitter30]

He still reads Ico as your partner. Read the posts man, this is like 3 posts in a row where you are twisting posts to mean something else.

wait nm

rce you're saying that boon thinks rc/ico is viable ... ?

[skitter30]

RCE: Flavor Leaf had this read earlier!!!
RC: That read is totally irrelevant at this stage of the game because Ico claimed doc and FL should have reevaluated after that point and there's no point presenting it as a useful read
RCE: RC IS MISREPPING ME OMG
RC: No, I'm not because xyz
RCE: No actually RC was right FL didn't reevaluate after Ico claimed doctor

i think that rce was giving an old read
and you thought it was a recent read (that was ignoring relevant information i.e. the protective claim)

but i think that you're aruging over something silly tbh

more interestingly:

@rce does fl now know about ico/math and how does this affect his read of rc, ico, and rc/ico?

if he doesn't can you update him and lmk what he says ?

[skitter30]

shos a few things:

(a) no lynch is like a horrible option after today and it's atrocious that you're even suggesting it

(b) also trying to lynch xtoxm rn is almost like throwing your vote away so i'm kinda baffled that you think that's the best use of your vote

(c) wrt to sauade: i'm kinda confused how you see that as a townie replacement? like even compare how he's acting in comparison to what you did when you repped in ... you at least tried to provide content

(d) where do you think he's trying to engage with the game ???

(e) did you see what i was saying about his town vs scum meta ?

and completely unrelated aside but i just want to say that i lived in israel for 10 months and that it's an amazing place, also i hope your shabbat was nice

[skitter30]

i honestly am not dealing well with skitter turning on me again tbh

do tell

[skitter30]

rc i feel like you're kidna taking a lot of what rce said out of context and/or not understanding what he's trying to say idk ?

[skitter30]

is this really the hill that flavor leaf is having you die on rce

i mean like ... do you think that this is the hill that scum!rce chooses to go down on ?

like why is this conversation even happening if he's scum?
like fl can't make up better scumreads that make more sense holistically ?
rce wouldn't keep fl informed wrt ico and use that to modulate their faked reads ?
rce would keep trying to lynch town!you when you aren't really viable anymore ?

like does any of this make sense from scum!him here?

[skitter30]

if we nl today i will revolt and give up

that is not an acceptable outcome for today

[skitter30]

rc i don't like ur rce push, i think he's still town

[skitter30]

[.
I just don’t see RCE scum here

So how do you view the discrepancies Math, as happy little accidents or something else?

also again things like this weird me out @flopz @rc ?

[skitter30]

Man Flopz I have no idea how other people scumread you tbh

oh yeah even better ...

[skitter30]

Ugh. Another fun 1v1 “caught!scum” go round with RC. Is this like round 6? (math/flopz/ari/duck/skitter/math/RCE/am I missing any??)

Honestly I could give af at this point. This game sucks, and the thread is unreadable. Hope you’re proud.

Can you actually read this please.

Just the last 5 pages.

I did. I think I see what you’ve said but I’m fairly drunk so want to sober do it.

oh this is probably town actually

[skitter30]

@ shos:

1. this dayphase is literally longer than most games are, it's like 130+ pages or so
we are not no lynching, it's just not an acceptable outcome
i refuse to end the day with allt he bickering and fighting and wagoning and quibbling and arguing without lynching someone and like at least resolving *some* of the conflict

like the whole day will have been for nought in that case

2. xtoxm would be better than a no lynch yeah, and no he should like never be in lylo here but like again it would be such an ... unsatisfactory ending to the day and wouldn't help resolve any of the {rc/you/saudade/everyone else} stuff

like that's why no lynching would be so awful, notthing would be resolved ...

3. i talked about saudade already but he's much mroe ... bravado-y as scum? and tends to have real content as town. whereas as scum he's more bluster-y and uses that to avoid like actually progressign things
also i refuse to believe town!him scumreads me for voting him here

4. also i think you/saudade are svs

[skitter30]

That post while probably genuine makes me scumread teacher more if RCE is scum

i think it's townie

pedit i can understand what rce was trying to do, but i think he went about it the wrong way

[skitter30]

I wish me you and skitter mutually townread each other because that would make this game a phenomenal amount easier for me.

Speaking of skitter where is she?

And I bet it would but her read progression on me is crap. Doesn’t make sense for a townie to have.

i have weekend vla, ty

[skitter30]

ok skitter

i won't take back anything i've said but i'll agree to not go after him for the duration of the game.

i've said the most that i can.

i'm so confused by your progression on him ...

[skitter30]

also i have an appointment in 10 minutes so i'm going to have to bounce soon; im trying to finish reading before then but we'll see what happens

[skitter30]

[.
I just don’t see RCE scum here

So how do you view the discrepancies Math, as happy little accidents or something else?

also again things like this weird me out @flopz @rc ?

What from that weirded you out? I was just asking Math what he was thinking about the whole situation as us 4 (Me, RC, RCE, Math) were there live.

you just backing up rc
and then rc immediately saying he doesn't get how anyone scumreads you

does no one else see this associative or like ... ?

[skitter30]

i really don't think he should be an endgame slot over any of my townreads and i expect him to be if i let it happen

i don't really have interest in lynching him today but i have way better reasons to townread everyone else and he's playing very pro-scum atm

i just very very very strongly disagree with ur read on him
and i think at least in part how he's playing is cuz he's just fed up with this game and how it's going down
and being annoyed with you last night because you were push was kinda ridiculous and taking things out of context ...

[skitter30]

skitter i'm town and when i have support from other players it changes the game from an emotionally draining slog to actually worth playing and i express that

if i'm town here (and I am) how exactly am i supposed to allay this concern besides by saying no i am not scum with slopz

i don't know
but do you not see why i find this dynamic weird ???

[skitter30]

i'm p happy to end the day with a saudade lynch

pedit yeah he thinks no lynching is a good idea here apparently

[skitter30]

i don't know

[skitter30]

this isn't like a thought process that i know how to like ~turn off~ exactly

i'm seeing an asociative that i find concerning
i am noting it
i can't like ignore it exactly because you don't like it

[skitter30]

ok

never saw skitter have more than 3 votes on her ever in my life tbh

here you go my dude
thats 4
VOTE: skitter

This was pretty ugly, and throughout Xtoxm ISO there's absolutely no effort in solving, scumhunting, townhunting. No reads. Barely any AI interactions coming from him.

VOTE: Xtoxm

Yeah my wagon seems to have been p scum driven

I no longer think that we should lynch shos first today. His resistance to the saudade wagon was gross, but it's sucu an explicitly bad position for scum to take on a partner that i'm no longer convinced that they're svs

Also shos's exasperation at the gamestate at eod yesterday seems townie

Also xtoxm is a lurksack who's done like nothing this whole game and had some p weird associatives with saudade that someone (i think rc?) pointed out

We can start there

VOTE: xtoxm

I no longer townread math btw

[skitter30]

Also i'm susupicous of flopz, i still dont think that rc/flopz interactions were tvt

[skitter30]

Respectfully concede, nice Lynch guys, didn't think it was a good one

Ico why are you scumreading me? What changed that made you like the xtomx vote suddenly?
I again go VOTE: xtomx ofc

I have input from my team from before the Lynch, perhaps this evening I'll get it posted. Have been postponed for like a week or more

Math why do you scumread me?

Also if xtoxm is scum shos isnt, shos's positioning yesterday wrt saudade and xtoxm doesnt make sense as a partner with them

[skitter30]

Respectfully concede, nice Lynch guys, didn't think it was a good one

Ico why are you scumreading me? What changed that made you like the xtomx vote suddenly?
I again go VOTE: xtomx ofc

I have input from my team from before the Lynch, perhaps this evening I'll get it posted. Have been postponed for like a week or more

Math why do you scumread me?

Because you scumslipped yesterday.

This post here also is terrible that over two days you don’t have a single read of your own? Really. Why is it all “your team”?

Like this is awful

[skitter30]

Also my tr on rce is wavering

[skitter30]

I jailkept rce night one, which was why I was so waffly on my read yesterday - I thought he was town but the no kill really confused me.
It's also why j was less happy to just jump on 'we have two conf town'.
I'm outing this now as my role was only n1-2. Obviously there is a world in which rce and ico are both scum, mechanically.

Huh, ok, this makes sense wrt your ico/math positioning yesterday

Ok so either ico protected math, or rce was either the killer or killee that night

I dont love math here really

[skitter30]

Bella!
Thanks for the claim, that's interesting.

Claims/flips so far are:
- Town Joat (Detective, Tracker, Motion Detector)
- Doctor
- Jailkeeper
- Scum Multitasking Neighbourizer

How do these fit in together?

Scum prob have a strongman

[skitter30]

Boss showed up, i'll be back later

[skitter30]

VOTE: math

@teacher i am fine with massclaim, might as well since it seems like most of town power is out at this point

[skitter30]

Pedit yeah it's happening anyways lol

[skitter30]

skitter ur literally coming to the same conclusions i am, with the exception of flopz

I really dont think that interaction is tvt

[skitter30]

since someone asked who was in the hood with tris/saud slot- that was me

Um this is a bizarre af neighborization

[skitter30]

I was kinda hoping I was killed and wouldn’t have to relook into stuff.

Um ...
There's really no universe where u were the nk last night

I feel like ur trying to push this 'obvs i am conftown narrative' that doesnt really match with the facts, like now, and yesterday when u freaked out that i questioned you being conftown before ico confirmed he was on you

[skitter30]

In any case xtowm is still the lunch rn

Yeah but i want to express my general suspicion of math whilr massclaim is happening

[skitter30]

VOTE: math

@teacher i am fine with massclaim, might as well since it seems like most of town power is out at this point

Oooh RCE Skitter Ico hot damn!

VOTE: RCE

Um what is this even ...

[skitter30]

You realize that a scum flipped, right ?

[skitter30]

I am actually down to vote Xtom I think.

What is their vote count at?

Oh and Xtom scum means that somehow we need to look at how I was “saved” again because scum absolutely would have hooded someone and a doc claim wouldn’t stop it.

?

[skitter30]

Suad Xtoxm math is v possible

Look at my previous reasoning

The one math is ignoring

Yeah i think so
Literally nothing he's saying rn makes sense and xtoxm has done nothing and i'm sus of the neighborize

[skitter30]

Math you're pushing moonlogic and nonsense that seems to change at the drop of a hat, particularly when people say they sr

Why would you think this is a 4 person game even

Pedit yeah same

[skitter30]

{ico, math, rce}

{skitter, teacher, ari, flopz}
{bella, shos}

i have some issues with bellas claim so pending the massclaim i'll see what that means for her/possibly rce.
my reads are not at all confident this game.

rc probably mentioned it first? i dont know. havent been reading everything

I was only night 1 and 2, technically I was an alien but it worked as a jk. If icos town pr also has limits on it, that makes sense?
Ive been town reading you since day one ico, but you must be able to see why I'm a bit concerned right now.

Not masses, but I'll go back and find, ico

I am thinking scum attempted to hood me if you jailkept me
Then Ico as traitor was shot (or if Ico was not shot the traitor was)

This makes sense for the lack of kill and I was saved I am just thinking wrong save

RCE+ico+Xtom

?

VOTE: xtom

[skitter30]

Omg math is actually scum

RCE+Ico

Lynch me today/tomorrow then speed lynch RCE and Ico.

I dont get it, this doesnt seem like a real position to have

[skitter30]

Strong against scum lynch

Right this too

[skitter30]

Interesting that Teacher and Skitter haven't claimed yet.

I thought we were popcorning and i didnt see my name yet, i can go whenever