Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[skitter30]

what makes u think that? i actually think the exact opposite, that this is a mess and they're therefore in a p good position

[skitter30]

like u guys at least only need to sort four other people, i need to sort all of you

and while there 's probably scum in ss/pooky/raven this is the sort of game that has great potential for having a deep wolf
and the fact that you're pov of this game is so different than mine is, uh, concerning

and uh what does it say taht pooky is trying to flip ss today then given that poe

[skitter30]

i'll talk abou tthis more wehn i get back from my weekend vla

[skitter30]

all I'm saying is I kind of expect scum to come at me today or try and keep options open

see i'm really confused by this pov ...

a) pooky has just done that and that doesn't seem to be making you push him
b) who exactly are these scum that are trying to do this?

[skitter30]

like I don't know which universe we'd have to be in for you guys to think it's possible that scumPooky spends hours re-reading DSJTR's games to try to derail a mis-elim wagon on TOWN-DSJTR in order to get himself lynched instead.

ngl i do find this argument somewhat convincing

[skitter30]

i'm kinda townreading raven, actually

[skitter30]

SS is townier than raven atm

??? go on

[skitter30]

pooky, sell me on tw/ss

tw, explain why pooky is scum and why ss is townier than raven

[skitter30]

ss what's your solve? i don't even know

[skitter30]

oh that's fine. i don't need it like At This Moment

but at some point within the next day or two that would be helpful

[skitter30]

that is indeed a Good Thing

i don't have a super firm grasp on what everyoen's solves are and i think that would be helpful to know, and at this stage i think everyone should be able to produce one
i also think that raven in the past like 5 pages has been super townie so would like to know why ss is higher in the poe than she is

[skitter30]

Is it bad that my main reason for thinking tw might be town is that he wouldnt conftown me in lylo?

[skitter30]

you are already conf town

Eh fair
And oh the pressure

And the vc's this game are kinda useless and i dont super fancy rereading this whole game :/

[skitter30]

i mean... the "theme" is that 9 random micro games from the last year are chosen and roles are put from them to be at least somewhat balanced and whatnot, i wouldn't put much stock in "a theme ontop of that"

i don't trust pooky entirely but there's no way to disprove PR claims without a massclaim and rn i don't think it's a Good Idea

i thought the 'theme' of the gimmick was 'things that are provable', which is also partially why i bought the dayvig claim, cuz it fit with mine + i was working off the assumption that the mask role was provable as vt/vanilla

:thonk:

[skitter30]

fmpov there's an elephatn in the room

What was this btw?

[skitter30]

Looker, VT from Butterfly Mafia. I believe Koba softed this.

Where do u think it was softed?

[skitter30]

Oh nm sorry

[skitter30]

honestly I think the only value my role can play now is that if you guys accept me as town - scum will have to use a NK on me as I will draw vs scum in a 1v1 endgame but that would require you guys to actually believe me.

This actually points to bomb tbh

[skitter30]

... at a bare (bear) minimum I think there's enough merit in this that I don't want to eliminate Pooky right now

pedit: yeah I also strongly doubt that scum let town!you live with a x% chance you're a full blown vig.

Wut
This is a weird post/reaction to that whole convo

[skitter30]

he doesn't even put down a single vote

i do actually think that this is indicative of scum!ss
the rest of your case i don't find super convincing, but i appreciate that you made it

[skitter30]

a) yes I think Pooky is transparently playing to an agenda this phase. Im under the weather and don't really have the energy levels to cohesively push back at someone who is clearly setting me up. I'll try this harder when I'm less not human.
b) I mean it was a sinking gut feeling more than a gamestate read at the time but if the shoe fits ?

a) i hope you feel better
b) when u are more human, i would like specific names, and ot just a general gamestate read plz

[skitter30]

hi skitter pls save me

hi
i am Working on it

[skitter30]

Pooky is driving the fuck out of an agenda which I think Raven is pussyfooting around and I feel like SS has just had a considered approach to this phase that's more in line with what I'd be expecting to see coming from town here

no offense but this is a bunch of buzzwords and idk what this actually means
i'm particularly interested in the 'why you think this look like town!ss bit'

[skitter30]

in practice like, would I put this much effort into hoping I can successfully pocket you (when I have not succeeded since December 2018), setting up the bg claim (which you'd need to assume I decided to fakeclaim on day one) and intentionally created a gamestate where conftown skitter is trying to hunt myself and my scumbuddy in a gamestate where town!Datisi is still alive?

sigh
this is probably convincing and i guess i'm townbinning you begrudgingly, but i don't really like it

is there any chance of dats being a deepwolf at this point?

[skitter30]

skitt I'm not sure what the point of 3947 is? also can you tell me why you're townreading raven off the last few pages or whatnot because i keep getting the opposite feeling :/

3947 was just me making a note to myself, not really that important rn

i feel like raven being confused and trying to reorient after a dsjstr townflip is kinda townie
she seems really, legitimately, confused ot me

[skitter30]

no

i don't, like, actually scumread you but i'm trying to assauge my fears of a deepwolf in you/tw

[skitter30]

because i feel like i'm expected to jump up at a "neighbour with no neighbour" claim and go "me too hey me too!!" and it being mafia-aligned would be... weird??

yeah also this.
iirc he claimed that (or at least, hinted at not having a neighbor) before you did
which lends credibility to the claim

(but he could technically be nomnom from that game but i'm trying not to think about that)

[skitter30]

If he wanted to claim BG, he didn't really have another choice

only if there were no other bg's in the 70-odd games we're working with
and i think that claiming neighborless neighbor is kinda risky?

[skitter30]

Raven is mega scum though and she should die first imo.

can you, like, give me the cliffnotes?

[skitter30]

how r u in the same spot. im alive right now and dsj would be alive instead of me

can you wlak me through again how you went from: townreading dsjstr to wanting to vote him out?

[skitter30]

There is no reason for scum-Pooky to make these points and offer himself up to be lynched instead

There's no good reason for town-Pooky to do it either and yet here we are. So we're kind of forced to believe you did it for a bad reason.

this is fallacious

[skitter30]

Pooky nearly hammered by Bugspray accidentally,

where did this happen again?

[skitter30]

Pooky nearly hammered by Bugspray accidentally,

where did this happen again?

[skitter30]

i do actually think that this is indicative of scum!ss

Lol

city
jk++

...

[skitter30]

if you need me to have another Obvtown Breakdown (hey that rhymes) lemme know

can u hit me with the cliffnotes plz?

[skitter30]

i dont get how neighbor without a neighbor and lover without a lover are in any way confirming of a role

it's not, inherently
and for dats it's not

*however* tw was able to come up with neighborless neighbor just as/just before dats claimed it, so two different people saying the same thing makes it more likely imo

pedit yeah

[skitter30]

i'm not forgetting anything?? bugs voted for pooky when pooky was at E-2, but bugs allegedly hadn't read up to where koba unvoted pooky from E-1 to E-2, and therefore would've "accidentally hammered" pooky. i'm saying that it's within the realm of possibility for a bugs/pooky scumteam to fake that?

pedit: @raven

i think it's probably outside of bugs' scumrange with a partner tbh
i dont think they fake that
and i don't think that they try to bus pooky on purpose either

(this assessment is pending me rereading how that incident went down, which i will do once i finishe catching up)

[skitter30]

I mean he could also be scum neighbor from the same game.

i think if he's scum that's most likely what he actually is, y eah

but then we have a fn, mfd mechanic, possible bomb and that's probably not balanced, right?

pedit i don't think i in a million years woudl have thoguht to claim neighbor without a hood as scum without knowing that was a legit role in this game (i.e. knowing there was a townie who was similarly unpaired)

and even if i had thougth of it, i don't think i would have been gutsy enough to do that unless i was informed said townie was in the game

[skitter30]

How is it fallacious?

There is no good reason for Pooky to do it as town.
There is no good reason for Pooky to do it as scum.

Ergo, Pooky did not do it for a good reason.

well, more the bit that you're insinuating that because it was done for a bad reason, it's unlikely to come from town!him

[skitter30]

t h e y are more capable as scum than you give them credit for

@skitt, you were scum with bugs recently, do you think that's fakeable?

tbh, i was not super impressed with their scumrange, and did not get the vibe that anything they did was like premeditated or that they thought about how to further scum wincon

so much as doing random things on a dime

but i don't think they would bus their partner like that either

[skitter30]

Datisi

did you really think I wanted to evict Bugspray because he's been awol in 2 games with me and he was town in both those games but this game he's not awol? Like in what universe is that a good enough reason to evict someone?

my pronoun is they/them
VOTE: pooky

ngl if this was an e-1 vote (and only e-1 cuz dkoba unovted) i think it's anti-partnery

pedit yeah i did

[skitter30]

/shrug, yesterday you said you don't think bugs "bussing" pooky like that is conclusive to mark off raven/pooky

i don't think i said that
or at the very least, if i did,i had not memeory of that interaction while i said it

(it's like a 160+ page game .... i don't remember every interaction offhand and i'm working on reviewing the parts of the game that will give me what i need to come to a decision)

[skitter30]

I feel like you just defeated your own argument by only listing scumgames

? you're a lot less likely to place votes in scumgames in my experience
not sure what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

ok i changed my mind and/or didn't realize that it was an e-1 vote / didn't realize the context

[skitter30]

sorry

[skitter30]

yeah i'm kinda ignoring the posts that aren't helping me

i wanna drop the pooky thing for the moment and sort ss

i think if i can confidentally get to town!tw, town!dats the game will be a lot simpler and then i just need to pick two scum in {ss, raven, pooky}

[skitter30]

um i'm not sure? i just wanna feel confident you're not, like, a deepwolf
which is unlikely but i need to like check that before i can work on that poe if htat makes sense

like there isn't anythinig in particular pointing to scum, i guess.
can you just give me the cliffnotes of the obvtown breakdown?

doesn't need to be like super comprehensive or a wallpost, just a few sentences about hwy you're out of your scumgame here

[skitter30]

ss i feel like i have better reasons to townread everyone cept for you rn
why are you scumreading raven exactly?

[skitter30]

I didnt include special setup stuff in my spreadsheet so i will be seearching for that game now.

actually this is town-indicative
sigh

maybe i'm just like majorly overthinking things and it's the obvious answer

[skitter30]

yeah ddkoba but why would we want to do that and also why are you treating neighbor claims extra special?

there were very few specific types of neighbors across games so a neighbor claim is corroborated by a neighborhood existing as well. i believe neighbors should immediately claim to their neighborhood should they exist (claim the setup)

well, at the very least, you're not scum with dats or tw

[skitter30]

so do u scumread raven in-of herself?

[skitter30]

cuz it would make me feel better to see some evidence of scumhunting

[skitter30]

skitt, again, that was a "if you want me to talk to me in the future" not "if you want me to list how i was towny in the past" but

uh sorry. but thanks

[skitter30]

i kinda think that dkoba's first like three pages don't come from scum
help

[skitter30]

like first three pages of the game
mostly for the setup work that he did and that he thought that games couldn't/wouldn't have weird mechanics

[skitter30]

it's not from my pov tho :'(

[skitter30]

i haven't reached the point where the game, like, ~clicks~ yet :/

[skitter30]

Doesn’t confirm my alignment, obviously, but it does confirm that I’m not gimmicking “for the luls” here

so basically if you're scum at most you have 1 night kill?

this is why I had DC as >rand town via setup
like the scum role pm in the mask game doesn't lend well to non anon games.

I'm in these 'pulling random quotes that might be helpful phase'

These might be scum indicative

[skitter30]

Or would it be that the normal mafia player can kill every night while the masked mafia player can only kill once in the entire game?

[skitter30]

If one of the mafia chosen was a one-shot nightkill mafia, would that apply to the entire mafia team this game as in they will only get 1 nightkill or would it be added as a bonus extra nightkill?

Or would it be that the normal mafia player can kill every night while the masked mafia player can only kill once in the entire game?

this question is pointless.

no mafia roles possible have a 1 shot kill ability, i went thru them all.

Well i think this is anti-associative for ss/pooky
And possibly town-indicative for ss

[skitter30]

I mean, again, being on ss n1 was p ????

Those quotes are making me feel better about commiting to scum!pooky, but idk who the partner is yet. Other than probably not ss

[skitter30]

actually I don't think it's a scum role because it's pretty explicitly -ev and -agency. it would be a mafia goon who is immediately publicly vanilla copped. the role itself also has some really damn cool mechanics but like. literally there is no way to adapt them across to this game.

I kinda just think miccromask reads pure anyway but like. Micc is a good moderator. schadd is a good reviewer. unless town is pretty low power I'm not sure a -ev/badly designed scum role makes it in?

Tw you're unfortunately hitting the same tells pooky is in that section:/

[skitter30]

Look at 461 in the context of scum having the mfd ability and town not knowing the game has the wacky mechanics

Weird convo for scum to be having with each other, no?

[skitter30]

Like replace mask with mfd

[skitter30]

Or more specifically, the bit i quoted from 459 is scum-indicative in that context, i'm p sure, while koba's response is coming at it from a totally different angle.

[skitter30]

Eh i skipped the post tags cuz i quoted both posts on this page/page before i dont remember

[skitter30]

Or would it be that the normal mafia player can kill every night while the masked mafia player can only kill once in the entire game?

Or to try it again:

This is about the mask game. Same level of funky mechanics as wrt the scum nk as the mask game

As far as i can tell, town at that point that the chance of such mechanics being in the game was fairly unlikely

Scum knew it wasnf - that's basicallg what i'm looking for rn - indications of people knowing that there were funky mechanics in the nk before it was widely indicated (i.e. start of say3)

The quoted bit above makes a lot of senss coming from scum who knows that one scum has the mfd ability, and the other is a goon

Koba'a response, in 461, thinks this is a dumb pov/question (which scum wouldnf since they knew a similar situation to actually be the case with mfd), and therefore seems unaligned with scum here

Unfortunately tw's posts in that section also feel like he's more informed than town ought to be there

[skitter30]

Bleh all the typos

Night dats

[skitter30]

Maybe i should just vote pooky and let u guys sort out who the partner is cuz i'll be dead anyways

Fwiw i really do think 461 is anti-partnery

[skitter30]

I'm masons with datisi. Like I'm not actually a mason with datisi? but low-key I am.

Given ur respective later claims, this is interesting

[skitter30]

Sorry

Not trying to drag things out, still working on it. I have like a whole method for lylo and i dont think i'm done yet

Havent figured out the holistic solve in a way that makes things make sense yet

[skitter30]

I don't know yet

[skitter30]

Dats is not scum with pooky
Dc qnd dk are never scum with each other
I still think dk and tw are not scum with each other

Pooky/ss

- i'm p sure 461 is clearing of this pair

Pooky/tw

- game not balanced

Pooky/dats

- um the whole game
Pooky/bugs

Ss/tw
Ss/dats
Ss/bugs

Tw/dats
Tw/bugs

Dats/bugs

[skitter30]

Ok i will return to this like later or tom

[skitter30]

You're talking about literally the first post of the game ...

[skitter30]

guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys

i kinda like skimmed the past 10 pages and i'm not really interested in reading it further ... if i missed something important plz requote it for me

[skitter30]

heya dats

sorry that things seem to be a bit of a mess :/

[skitter30]

i'll, like, try again but it didn't seem super pleasant really

[skitter30]

sorry i got distracted
i still haven't really read the last whatever pages, i shall valiantly try again

i'm leaning towards voting pooky here tho
idk who the partner is

[skitter30]

despite it making 0 sense he was my buddy

can you summarize why pooky/you doesn't make sense? is it just that bugs lolvoted pooky for that e-1 vote way back when?

[skitter30]

I would hammer my buddy on D1 if we thought it was our best shot.

tbf, that's not the sort of gamestate where the e-1 took place in

[skitter30]

so are you going to admit you're in a 0 effort death tunnel and it looks shady af?

bad faith

[skitter30]

I don't understand what this is supposed to prove? Koba and I share the same role PM. Koba's ISO is and always has been towny, and it will always continue to be.

in my valiant effort to reread salient parts of the game, i am getting kinda close to wanting to townbing dkoba

[skitter30]

Now DSJ has flipped town - does SS do what he promised to do? Nope he just goes straight to scenario 1: Let's kill Pooky/Raven.(which is what he wanted to do if dsj flipped scum)

you're ignoring the changed circumstances (i.e. mark (which makes me conftown, makes tw mechanically likely town)), and how that affected ss's train of thought/pov. yes, he happened to arrive at the same conclusion, but he did the work to get there and explained why he thinks that

you're just kinda skipping over the 'did the work to explain why he came to the conclusion' bit

like the fact that he's taking tw out fo the pool for mechanical reasons explains a lot about his current conclusions

although, ss, can you just remind me why you're townbinning dats again?

[skitter30]

I literally told the town they should lynch me and here's three possible ways night could play out and who would be the scum in each scenario

can u just requote this bit plz?

[skitter30]

I liked koba too initially but I was convinced that Ank was locktown in a game where she flipped scum

i don't know why this is, like, relevant to anything

[skitter30]

SS claim: Raven is pretty decent as scum.

Also SS claim: Scum!Raven is clearly a moron who is trying to set herself up to gamethrow. Which one is it SS? Am I decent at scum or am I a suicidal gamethrowing moron?

You can’t have it both ways.

not sure where either of these things are happening

[skitter30]

right, sorry, that got requoted a few posts later, i should have just kept reading

[skitter30]

It really sucks we might possibly lose this game either because of scum pushing a bad faith agenda or town not seeing how for like a gazillion reasons this makes absolutely no sense. @Sorry Aldus, Lillith, dsjstr I tried but this is literally like MBoS again.

if we're talking about the first one i literally won that game in lylo for you, remember?
(oh hey, another time where i was lol-conf-towned by scum in lylo)

actually why is this game even on your mind right now?

and what is your solve even? like i'm just seeing a lot of 'not pooky/raven! nobody's listening to my solve!' but i don't know what the solve, like, is

pedit no and i'm giving up reading this in a page or two

[skitter30]

wait when did you conftown raven?

[skitter30]

Is in your experience bugs extremely careless player?

yes

[skitter30]

sigh, i need to talk to skitter

heya

[skitter30]

and have your solve completely trampled upon

ravne you admitted like four posts up from this one that you don't have a solve so i don't know what you're going on about
you literally don't know who ss's partner is

[skitter30]

i mean, sure, she didn't outright say "i think pooky/raven is likely" but also you were the only uncrossed partner for pooky and she said she's leaning on voting pooky so idk, 2 + 2 = ?

though i don't wanna be putting words in her mouth, if that's not the conclusion i'm supposed to draw, feel free to correct me

nah that's what i was getting at

[skitter30]

hi skitt i basically wanted to see if you still think pooky's the day's execute and like what we're doing in general and stuff.

yeah i think i reached the most recent shitfest so i'm going to stop reading that now

gonna read the part of the game where pooky claimed vig -> bomb and then i think i'm just going to make a decision cuz i really don't have energy for this and i'm not sure i can give a ~holistic~ solve up to my usual standards rn

[skitter30]

Fmpov, if I am the only possibility for Pooky!scum and I know we’re not buddies, why wouldn’t it make sense that I’m not convinced he’s scum?

this is really fallacious ...

[skitter30]

i can try but it'll drag things out over another few days irl and i can't, like, promise results

[skitter30]

i can try but it'll drag things out over another few days irl and i can't, like, promise results

i meant for like a partner-finding for dats tomorrow

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

vote Clover

get him tommorrow for me pls thx. look at his iso its basically contentless.

good luck i tried my best


go town.

That seems like a sensible response
With my endorsement he goes from 'a distraction' to 'viable coalition member'

'So when nobody was townreading him - he decided he didn't want to be on the coalition (Which btw he can't be because nobody is townreading him)

and when a leading member of the town began townreading him - he decided he did want to be on the coalition (which btw is now possible because he's being townread)


And that's your basis for why this guy is absolutely definitely town? Like are we even being serious here?

if I'm scum who needs a mis-execute why wouldn't I just hammer koba at L-1 instead of defending him and trying to get you off him?

it's alright

we'll win next time sleeper. keep your chin up

oh so when I'm telling you guys not to lynch koba because I think he's town it's really because I'm scum and trying to get him lynched?

well you seem to think the logic only applies to me and not to clover lol

so when I do something like defend koba it's because I'm cunning scum

when clover does something it's because he's this cherubic noob who's definitely town

why are we even wasting time talking

no because you're making it sound like I'm going all in on Clover cuz I need 1 mis-execute to win the game or some bullshit

and Klick's final case against me saying that I am going for Clover because I need 1 mis-exec is just nonsense.

Why would ScumPooky not just hammer Koba for the Mis-Exec instead of trying to defend him and get Clover lynched instead?

If Clover flips town - Pooky is basically definitely dead on Day 2 since he steered the wagon off Koba and onto Clover an innocent.

If Pooky just hammers Koba there - he doesn't have any issues like that - he's just the last vote on a wagon driven by other people.

So why would scumPooky decide to defend koba and re-aim the wagon at Clover instead and take heat that he doesn't need? not to mention Clover is someone who many believe to be town so whether Pooky can even get Clover lynched in the first place is just insanely difficult.

Klick's "PookyScum is just going all out for 1 mislynch" theory is just utter nonsense and when I call him out on it he immediately switches to this post about

We have 14 hours left. Pooky is at L-1; Sleeper and Clover are at L-3.

We should lynch Pooky unless someone wants to give a really good reason to swap over to another wagon.

So he re-frames the discussion from Pooky vs Clover to Pooky vs No-Lynch since if Pooky doesn't get hammered here - the town misses its lynch.

I can't believe I'm still efforting this game

most of you probably don't even read my posts.

Clover didn't even bother to show up today to defend himself because apparently only I get questions and attacks thrown at me while he can just waltz through the game humming showtunes or some nonsense.

[skitter30]

I want to hear Pooky’s response to all of this, I still want djstr dead for that post.

raven, pooky hardclaimed a role the mod said he wouldn't use in his setup. like what else do you want

Yeah, I just get strong gut scum vibes from 2845 but yeah I guess it’s LAL then? But I still want to wait to hear his response to this before I vote.

[skitter30]

@Pooky, Micc is claiming you not being sure whether you are a blank vig or a real one as bastard and therefore false. I don’t understand why town!you lies about this?

After reread, I’m spiritually voting this.

yea i messed this up for the town so i probably hang for this - oops my bad guys.

I'm not a vigilante, I'm actually a bomb from that game. I wanted to try to get the mafia to shoot me cuz then one of them would die with me.

VOTE: djstr

[skitter30]

. If you’re so convinced on Pooky/dsjtr then the order doesn’t matter anyway and I’ll feel better executing my strongest sr.

[skitter30]

Notice how raven is pushing dsjstr instead of confscum

man i really should just listen to myself

[skitter30]

ok i'm good with voting pooky

feel reasonably decent about raven being the partner but not like 100% sold but idk who the partner would be otherwise
there is some small level of paranoia that there's a deepwolf

[skitter30]

that would have indeed been fun

most of what pooky is saying is out of his scumrange he kinda, like, did as scum in coalition
that's kinda what settled it for me

raven ...

[skitter30]

ok we ready for a vote?

again just to be clear pooky/raven isn't a solve that i'm hanging my hat on (don't want people saying i said that tom)

but that i don't know who the partner is and that raven is the least-problematic option

[skitter30]

i can quote me so saying 'i fucking hate holding hammer' probably like five or six times even though i know where/who i'm going to vote

so no

[skitter30]

although that unvote

[skitter30]

yeah I thought it was strange as soon as my post loaded. call it a xylo impulse; I'm rusty.

???

[skitter30]

what was strange ?

[skitter30]

well my brain is going to pooky/tw but uhhhhhh

[skitter30]

right but uh there's something wrong with taht unvote, i think

[skitter30]

i'm p sure that pooky is just scum
if u look at the posts i pulled from coalition on like the previous page, he's pulled most of the same tricks before
and then has been saying they're out of his scumrange

[skitter30]

oh wiat the spoiler didn't post :/

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

if I'm scum who needs a mis-execute why wouldn't I just hammer koba at L-1 instead of defending him and trying to get you off him?

it's alright

we'll win next time sleeper. keep your chin up

oh so when I'm telling you guys not to lynch koba because I think he's town it's really because I'm scum and trying to get him lynched?

so when I do something like defend koba it's because I'm cunning scum

when clover does something it's because he's this cherubic noob who's definitely town

why are we even wasting time talking

no because you're making it sound like I'm going all in on Clover cuz I need 1 mis-execute to win the game or some bullshit

vote Clover

get him tommorrow for me pls thx. look at his iso its basically contentless.

good luck i tried my best


go town.

thought about the layout of the game some more and decided to break it down for you guys post-death as you will know my thoughts to be those of a true-townie by the end of today.

I'm pretty sure sleeper and chemist/koba are town - do not lynch these slots under any circumstances - going to Lylo without figuring out scum-on-coalition is pretty much GG.

The scum in the coalition has to be between Klick and Clover - I'm leaning towards it being Clover and Klick is just being the stubborn tunnel-visioned townie - but there is an off chance that I'm wrong about this and Klick is actually the scum and Clover is just being used like a hand-puppet. Either way you guys need to lynch these two to find the scum on the coalition -

If you lynch Klick tommorrow and he flips scum - I think the last scum is either Aldus or Clover - leaning towards Aldus.

If you lynch Clover tommorrow and he flips scum - the last scum is either Klick or Deimos - it's unlikely to be Aldus with Clover because they both feel so passive but this could be a player trait and not based on strategy.

If you lynch Clover tommorrow and he flips town - you must kill Klick immediately the next day - do not let him speak or you are lost - he is very good at this game.

Look very carefully at how Klick approaches tommorrow - he's been in control of large segments of this game - if he suddenly flips his mind about Clover - this is a hint that Clover could be the patsy here.

Klick is the one driving the bus on me today - do not let him dodge responsibility for it tommorrow - somebody needs to step up and take control of the game away from him before the game moves to a state where it's impossible for the town to win.

and Klick's final case against me saying that I am going for Clover because I need 1 mis-exec is just nonsense.

Why would ScumPooky not just hammer Koba for the Mis-Exec instead of trying to defend him and get Clover lynched instead?

If Clover flips town - Pooky is basically definitely dead on Day 2 since he steered the wagon off Koba and onto Clover an innocent.

If Pooky just hammers Koba there - he doesn't have any issues like that - he's just the last vote on a wagon driven by other people.

So why would scumPooky decide to defend koba and re-aim the wagon at Clover instead and take heat that he doesn't need? not to mention Clover is someone who many believe to be town so whether Pooky can even get Clover lynched in the first place is just insanely difficult.

Klick's "PookyScum is just going all out for 1 mislynch" theory is just utter nonsense and when I call him out on it he immediately switches to this post about

We have 14 hours left. Pooky is at L-1; Sleeper and Clover are at L-3.

We should lynch Pooky unless someone wants to give a really good reason to swap over to another wagon.

So he re-frames the discussion from Pooky vs Clover to Pooky vs No-Lynch since if Pooky doesn't get hammered here - the town misses its lynch.

I can't believe I'm still efforting this game

most of you probably don't even read my posts.

Clover didn't even bother to show up today to defend himself because apparently only I get questions and attacks thrown at me while he can just waltz through the game humming showtunes or some nonsense.

why pooky is scum ^

[skitter30]

tw's unvote is bothering me more than ss being here (which isn't like, bothering me much at all)

but i'm not sure it's preventing me from actually voting pooky here
but it is making me rethink partner!raven

[skitter30]

sorry maybe i'm just bad at mechanics (i mean i am just bad at mechanics)

why isn't fn + 6 vts vs mfd balanced again?
6 vts v. 2 goons with a mfd is considered balanced-enough, no?

[skitter30]

that may be a dumb question

[skitter30]

oh god i don't know
like i said probably dumb question

do we wanna just take the plunge

tw i am still like skeptical

[skitter30]

ok then

apologies if i'm wrong
sorry if i contributed to any of the ~messy~ parts of this game

VOTE: pooky

and hiatusing now so this will be my last time playing for a bit/while, but i enjoyed being in a game with u guys all again (minus the messy parts), it was a great pl.

[skitter30]

i'm like just gonna be staring at the screen for a bit please forgive me

that's ok

fwiw my dying read is that dats is town

[skitter30]

i am actually at peace with my vote, surprisingly enough

[skitter30]

only 3 votes

and pooky nice to play with you too!

[skitter30]

indeed

sorry that you're in a bad mood. def trying not to cultivate that, just trying to fulfill my wincon as best as i know how

[skitter30]

Pooky do u have a lylo towngame onsite?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
Enjoy, take ur time

[skitter30]

Ducky ur scaring me

[skitter30]

Tbf i didnt read it that way either

[skitter30]

thinking about this game is distracting me from work
i'm like
worried raven will appear and lolhammer
but not really sure if i think ss/raven is remotely more likely than pooky/raven

Why are ur posts since i said i was ok with voting so troubling ...

[skitter30]

But i guess we're at a point where the scumteam has to be exactly dats/raven for this to go badly so

[skitter30]

Dattttttts tw is worrying me :/

[skitter30]

"grab & shake by the shoulders" strategy actually preferred

preferred

[skitter30]

yeah i can't access that

dats ur right u had the chance to win with anybody but pooky so uh assuming dats/pooky isn't a thing he's conftown basically

[skitter30]

no that's fine, ty

[skitter30]

dats ur right u had the chance to win with anybody but pooky so uh assuming dats/pooky isn't a thing he's conftown basically

does this change anything from ur pov?

[skitter30]

it's from like many years ago, right?
if yeah than it's probably nto helpful

[skitter30]

oh i misread that, sorry, didn't realize it just ended

let me look at the lovers game first
i mean i guess you can see if you can get me access but idk how long that will take or if i'll actually look at it so

[skitter30]

eh just copy-paste it and put it in spoiler than if u really want to

harder to tell if i'm seeing what i need to tho if i can't actually look at the game for myself

[skitter30]

dats ur right u had the chance to win with anybody but pooky so uh assuming dats/pooky isn't a thing he's conftown basically

does this change anything from ur pov?

i'm kinda more interested in this than you copy-pasting the lylo of that game tbh

[skitter30]

actually if i was scum with pooky it would make sense for me to be here.
but like
if you think i'm scum with pooky i think we should talk more about that

sorry :/
i'm not trying to be unhelpful and like i'm trying not to get super paranoid here but like this is indeed kinda niggling i the back of my mind :/

[skitter30]

if you think i'm scum with pooky i think we should talk more about that

maybe talk me down?

pooky you're right, you did address that, sorry for missing it
i'm gonna be honest, i feel p solid voting you rn, just waiting for the Last Thoughts and for dats to be like Unparanoid and Settled

[skitter30]

maybe talk me down?

when u have time ofc, not rn if ur at work

[skitter30]

ty tw. i'll look at that a little more closely tom morning but at a glance that makes me feel a bit better about you/pooky

like i know its unfair cuz i have information you dont have but can you think of anything i can do at this point to get you to understand im innocent here?

tbh, i don't think so super much rn. but i'll think about it overnight to see if there's anything else that i can think of, and i'll let u know if so. otherwise i'll vote u in the morning

raven, i'm sorry u feel that way

[skitter30]

raven if there's anything else u wanna say i'm listening but i'm gonna be p forthright that i'm at a pooky/you solve rn

[skitter30]

which piece of evidence in your mind skitter is the most damning reason for you to suspect Pooky-scum here?

i just wanna say that i admire your tenacity

look, from my pov the game looks like this:

me - towniest town to ever town
dats - literally can only be scum with you, which i find incredibly unlikely, and i'd vote you out over him for like a bajillion reasons as i actively townread him
tw - well i'm still not like ~solid~ but i have multiple people (dats, tw, ss) telling me he has to be town for mechanical reasons, and all three of them can't be scum so i wanna just agree with that and not think about it too hard.

so i just need to find the one townie in {pooky, ss, raven} to solve the game
and i kinda wanna townbin ss for Koba and for how he's comporting/presenting himself today

so what does that leave me with?

the reasons you're lowest of the three of them in my poe is:
- looks like coalition
- fallacious/bad-faithy arguments (to aldu, about dats early game and earlier today, about ss earlier today)
- dislike ur switch from town-dsjtr to scum-dsjstr when i said i was leaning towards scum-dsjstr
- the whole bomb/vig thing

i feel reasonably settled with this decision, kinda just waiting for dats to give the all clear tbh
not hanging my hat on scum!raven but it's my best guess at this point

[skitter30]

So, if Pooky flips town: SS/tw
If he flips scum: SS > Dats

right
so, if pooky flips town we just lose

i'm not sure why you're settling on scum!ss over scum!pooky

i also find you pushing dsjstr over pooky during the bomb-vig to be partner-indicative

[skitter30]

i'll respond to this postgame as well

[skitter30]

I have literally nothing to say to you.

I know you are scum.

If you want to make a case to skitter then make it on your own time, don't interrupt me in the middle of my posting and try to knock me off course with random distracting posts.

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING TO YOU AT ALL.

If you want to make some case to skitter - then do so yourself and I will stay offline until you are done talking then I will resume making my posts.

I do not want to interact with you in any way.

[skitter30]

Bugspray doesn’t accidentally near-hammer his own partner in the first hours of D1 - that’s just not an EV-positive play despite how TW/SS keep insisting that bugspray just wouldn’t care and would just randomly hammer his own partner.

A lylo set up by TW/SS who engineered the dsj lynch over me.

I would not have set up an endgame where myself and my scumpartner raven are sitting ducks to get lynched 1 after the other.

ok wanna say a few things wrt your letter:
- there's a lot i admire about your game here (esp. if u are scum), and there's some that i'm not as fond of. we can talk about it at length in post tho
- bugs isn't some scum mastermind. honestly i've thought about it some more and give my experience with scum-bugs like i can kinda see him doing that. in my last scumgame with them (i.e. we were partners), they lolhammered day1 like 24 hours into the day and fucked over the gamestate and i got tilted to the point where i repped out cuz i couldn't figure out where to go from there after they messed with the gamestate in like three different ways and actively ignored in-thread what we talked about in the scum pt. so uh yeah. after reviewing that experience not sure their e-1 vote on u is clearing.
- i'm p sure i'm the main reason dsjstr went through in the end (uh, sorry) so the quote above about tw/ss engineering it is revisionist
- i followed coalition quite closely while it happens and there's several things that happened there that mirror what's happening here (i quoted in the spoiler), and that's not something i can just ignore
- i actually kinda believe you would not have let this scum-raven/scum-pooky endgame to play out ... but i find the other possibilities to be even less likely so this is where i'm at
- raven going after dsjstr and not you during hte bomb thing is a point in favor of partners, not against it
- i do like the gif at the end
- i'm not planning on reading the messy parts of the 180's, sorry

[skitter30]

i think so ?
i like really hope that i'm not wrong (cuz, well, messed up a few times already this game)

but i'm not sure where else to vote and ss saying that if pooky is town we've also kinda already lost is kinda compelling too
like i think i've reviewed my thoguth process that went into this decision and i feel reasonably settled, enough that i tried.

[skitter30]

yes I can see bugs lol-hammering on D1 but they don't do that to their own teammate do they? sure they ignore what you told them in the scum PT but do they ignore your existence and just lol-hammer you in the first hours of D1? It's a pretty big stretch from scum using their meta to try to get away with a lol-hammer and scum lol-hammering their own partner.

we agreed in the scum pt that i would make aparticular fake-claim to take advantage of a particular mechanic in thread.
they lolhamemred and then claimed what i was going to fake-claim about 24 hours through day1

[skitter30]

why would both SS and TW decide it's better to push DSJ instead?

i'm not sure this actually happened?

[skitter30]

damn

you don't know things like that happen when the scum PT doesn't get released

yeah i think that's why it ultimately didn't get released and why i repped out, i got really tilted and i think i asked for a bunch of redactions :/

[skitter30]

pooky my read on u is tghat u care about scum like 10x as much as u care about town, and that you're really passionate/driven and will do whatevr u can to win a scumgame, whereas u don't care as much about town
and that in coalition u didn't care about getting hammered cuz aldu was set up to win if u get voted out

i kinda think it's time. i'll address whatever's on this page cuz i'm bad at not answreing things but i really odn't think i'm changing my mind at this point

[skitter30]

Why do you find a TW/SS scum-team even less likely? I don't think you've ever articulated that and I really don't get what in their play makes them so "townie" to you.

the fact that tw mechanically is very likely to be town and the fact that you're a smart dude but you're pushing for this anyways

[skitter30]

town game in which I really tryharded really recently if you think that would change your mind.

plz

[skitter30]

sorry i had to get the pagetop. anway i've been rereading around page 126 where mod confirmed pooky's claim was fake and idk raven's reaction seemed a biiiiit... tmi? in like "i still want to execute dsjstr, but let's see what pooky claims now" and like idk?

pooky claims (4673) that he first asked to get executed in 3435 and that it was risky but shorty after the vig/bomb fiasco but before that post the tides were pretty turned around against dsjstr...

theoretically i could mabye see an s_s/raven team deciding "oh shit pooky's gonna be a great misexecture tomorrow let's get dsjstr today and pooky in lylo" but like... is this s_s/raven??? i don't think it is?????

don't think raven in ss/raven decides to align with pooky to push ss in lylo
and agree with u on raven around the bomb/vig thing, i quoted that a few pages back

[skitter30]

Notice how raven is pushing dsjstr instead of confscum

man i really should just listen to myself

[skitter30]

oh didn't realize it was that game

[skitter30]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

[skitter30]

random aside: i feel like as my scumgame's gotten better my feel for playing town has gotten worse

[skitter30]

idk i'm outsourcing the mech read to a combo of tw/dats/ss cuz i'm not good at it and all 3 fo them are saying that and they can't all be scum

[skitter30]

dats what are u thinking rn?

[skitter30]

idk i'm kinda ready so just wanted to know if u wanted to talk abt anything
enjoy ur walk, don't think about this for a bit

[skitter30]

mine

[skitter30]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

idk. if u read thru that section she inexplicably wanted to not vote you, which was a p strange reaction from a townie

[skitter30]

skitt, at the begining of the game, you commented on koba/tw never being s/s... does that still hold?

pedit: i'm a mix of "i want to end this" adn "oh god i'm not ready" idk

um not as strongly cuz it was ages and ages ago but i trust past!me saying that if that makes sense?

rn i'm kinda taking tw out of the lynchpool cuz ur telling me he mechanically has to be town, which negates ss/tw in any universe

[skitter30]

like why can't neighbor bodyguard be a fake-claim? I'm just not seeing what mechanically makes it so that TW must be town because from my role PM I know he is scum here and I just wish I could understand the mistake you are making in your logic so I can correct it

well the bg bit apparently, the neighbor bit is just icing on the cake given that dats is claiming loveless lover

apparently we need the bg to be balanced against mfd

[skitter30]

it was about their spat at like the first 5 pages i think

and like... i think he's town on mechanics. i

yes, i knew where it was from
i had reread it a few days ago and like i didn't think it as strongly as i did at the time but i trust past!me making that assessment, is what i ment

and wrt mechanics i meant the bg bit

i think he/pooky is kinda impossible
i hadn't done any work to specifically rule out ss/tw this day phase but like i'm relying on tw!bg = town and koba being town i guess

ss's confidence this phase is also +town but i can see it coming from scum too

[skitter30]

did you think yesterday that we had 3 TPRs or 2 TPRs?

i didn't really think about it, i'm not good at mechanics and usually let other people work that bit out

[skitter30]

*not good at mechanics as town

[skitter30]

i'm gonna quote a mastina adage: scum like to try to make the possible ~probable~

like techincally scum!tw could have been informed of loverless!dats and known about the mfd and come up with that exact fake-claim
is it probable tho? not really

[skitter30]

However there was no downside for him to add Neighborless to his BG claim, or the only BG in the safeclaim games they were dealt was a BG Neighbor.

i think it's a really risky claim to make out of the blue, without knowing that there's a similarly pairless paired role in the game

[skitter30]

I thought we agreed that this game needs the bg to be balanced

[skitter30]

Like all the neighborhood/paired stuff is kinda not that relevant

[skitter30]

Its ok, we dont need to bet ur life dats

But like vast majority of the time bg just makes him town, right?

[skitter30]

Pooky

Mislynching some others is ok

Mislynching me is stupid as fuck

Because I'm like you

Brilliant

I'm about ready for this game to end.

catch these guys a scum and all they do is come up with nonsense

Big mood

[skitter30]

Ok i skimmed the last page of ur iso there and it is devoid of badfaith arguments as far as i can tell

[skitter30]

right, but you're not really making endless pages of bad-faith arguments there, and as best as i can tell, you aren't going as ~hard~ there either (although, tbf, that might be a function of the sort of game it is

[skitter30]

ngl the big mood is my favorite post of the game

[skitter30]

did you read my other emotional blowups from that game? it's quite amazing how worked up I can get over a stupid internet game

u wanna link? not reading a 80p game

[skitter30]

why are we even talking about emotional blowups again

and hey look what else i found:

If I was scum,

I would not need to set up anything in the future.

The town has been going from one dumb wagon to another with no direction - the scum feel literally no pressure to do anything because the town is nowhere close to fingering any of them.

The scum feel so comfortable that they can sit back, let the town lurch from one bad wagon to another and shoot in wagon because the town is nowhere close to lynching scum.

So the idea that Pooky-Scum is setting up some nefarious plan in the future involving multiple moving parts is just absurd on its face.

I can't believe anymore that you really believe this because its just laughable.

wouldn't that apply to the scum-tw and scum-ss universe days2 and 3?

[skitter30]

no? if scum-tw and scum-ss town has been lurching from from one dumb wagon to the next and town is nowhere close to lynching scum

[skitter30]

In that game, how good were Pooky's reads? Did he have any that he was extremely confident on that turned out to be wrong?

... as best as i can tell he correctly actively pushed for both flipped scum and got them voted out
(but tbf i only read bits of his iso, don't want to say that i holistically know that game)

[skitter30]

The emotional blowups are proof of my emotional commitment to a game where I am town.

ok fair
but like ... your'e spouting bad faith arguments and you're capable of, like, not

[skitter30]

How much value is there in reading the stuff I missed today

look at my big mood on the previous page

[skitter30]

And it’s always smart to vote your strongest sr att which was obviously dsjtr. I can’t remember what post it was but I was actually bomb in a game, so that might have influenced it somewhat.

ok but if hte mod says someone is literally lying about their role, that's a p big scumtell and a higher priority than your scumread, no?

[skitter30]

If you really take the time to read that game I linked, you will know the level of effort I put into winning as town when I am invested into a game.

i'm not reading an 80-page game for a game taht's already 200 pages. sorry

[skitter30]

also don't think tw would set up a lylo with me conftown town, if that helps

[skitter30]

can i just like bop you at this point?

[skitter30]

That kind of implies I put a ton of effort into this game and was very interested in winning it as town right?

k, i was wrong, you were very interested in winning it as town

[skitter30]

Burden of Prociency - you're apparently capable of leading two scum lynches so why haven't you (provably) found scum here yet?

[skitter30]

now i'm starting to doubt ss again but that's probably, like, the point of this whole convo

[skitter30]

i need to not think about this rn
bbl

[skitter30]

because she's skitter?

<3

and one day i'll learn not to be paranoid!

[skitter30]

it's the fact that if we *don't* lose, skitt's going to die and duck us probably going to die and then i'll be left alone to make the choice in f3.

If it helps, i super deeply sympathize with this

[skitter30]

Pooky i dont think duck is scum cuz apparently the game needs his role to be balanced + scum!him doesnt leave me alive this long and conftown me in lylo when i've been going after him on and off

[skitter30]

And like up until tm if i was scum with town-him he just died cuz i couldnt pocket him well enough for him to not come after me and town-him scared me

I kinda grew out of it but i'm p sure scum-him is at roughly that stage still in reverse

(With the caveat that he's been on hiatus for a bit and i havent been in a game with scum-him in a while i'm p sure)

[skitter30]

@Datisi/Skitter/Raven

I think there's a lot of assumptions here that dont necessarily hold

[skitter30]

Yes, and? That's why i softed/claimed cuz i didnt want to get voted out

Actually i just thought of something - did i get mf'd just cuz i'm an fn and they wanted to kill me around the bg?

Did someone want tw alive today?