TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[OkaPoka]

dunn if you like my town list and can convince a50 to target outside of the list, we can chain night actions to guarantee a win

[OkaPoka]

nobody has claimed it yet

[OkaPoka]

if a50 is scum he's going to kill my list probably and we go 1 for 1 which is whatever

if he's town, i still can't comfortably townbloc him, so i just want to maximize culling of the bottom and guarantee the list

[OkaPoka]

my point is i really dont care who is scum as long as we have a winning list

[OkaPoka]

if we can outpace culling from the top vs culling from the bot, its a dub

[OkaPoka]

well now that ythan is a lot more clearly town, agar's vote on a50 in retrospect is incredibly townie esp considering that agar was voting ythan beforehand

even if its moving from town to town, that's just unnecessary stuff from him so i feel comfortable enough

[OkaPoka]

So you think scum never move from one town wagon to another unless absolutely necessary? That seems really weak to me.

also:

im willing to bet the game on

me, dunn, agar, ceph, iv, xtoxm,

maybe ythan

all being town here. that's 7. we have 15 people alive, i think if i find like 1 or 2 more townies then i dont really care about who we eliminate as long as we just cull from the bottom

You had already townbinned Agar here, when you weren't yet sure on Ythan. Your progression doesn't quite add up, unless I'm missing something?

i already townleaned agar so as my ythan opinion rose, so did my agar opinion

was more comfortable townbinning agar at that moment

[OkaPoka]

OK, I accept that IV is Town here, and if Icon is confident Ythan is Town I'll take it (that's 2 slots I was UNconfidentally TRing).

But this probably makes Oka Town too, so all 4 scums are in

[*]Bell, He's always useless in my experience, but something tells me this is useless Scum!Bell
[*]Luca Blight, Can't decide, but I think the associatives with the rest of my SRs make me lean Scum on him
[*]jjh927, I am not used to jjh being this abscent. jjh was in my team in TM2020 and he was NK'd on N1 in his game
[*]Hopkirk, Has been unispiring all game long and I do think Town!Hopkirk would have town-told already
[*]AGar, The more I see from him the more I am convinced he is Scum. And to think I

??

then are you okay with my gameplan

ill let you babysit anyone outside my list

[OkaPoka]

i want to vig him

[OkaPoka]

i think with 7 people and a vig somewhere and now a babysitter we can straight up outrace and finish the poe faster than scum can force us to pick u know

[OkaPoka]

Look either i ascend into god hood or i fuck up and become a meme

Either way its a win win

[OkaPoka]

Sure but i dont feel comfortable betting the game on a weird fake guilty, better to use him to outrace

[OkaPoka]

Ok ythan how abour you sac me if my poe doesnt catch all scum

If i die you better follow my list like scripture

[OkaPoka]

Truth is ceph if a50 complies i dont need him and i like my list enough

Still unwilling to bet on him and I don't need to

If he doesnt comply as scum its fine

Only bad world is noncompliance as town

[OkaPoka]

like jesus they hated me because i told the truth

[OkaPoka]

but unlike jesus i am a lazy bum

yo dunn

hi there cutie

VOTE: luca blight

[OkaPoka]

huh

well back to schoolwork i guess

please

send

help

[OkaPoka]

rule of three is a definitely a thing but more of a newbscum thing iirc

[OkaPoka]

the argument for rule of three is not probabilistic btw ~or it kinda is but not really

its the idea that a scum bro is going to be self-conscious about his reads and try and balance the distributions and as a result actually gives us more info by trying to limit info you know

[OkaPoka]

the idea that when scum lists a group of three (probably can scale to 4 or 5) there is usually exactly one scum in that pool

[OkaPoka]

general application is scum aims to have their pools be as close to distribution as possible, like if you could split their pools into tiers of groups they probably have a scum in each tier so its 'random'

[OkaPoka]

if luca is willing to self hammer he's probably willing to do a lot of high variance things

in other words. maybe?

[OkaPoka]

anyways im still quite busy and probably will be for the rest of the game unless we want to drag it out a month

xd

[OkaPoka]

i think that if ur going to be lurky ur not going to self hammer you know

self hammering is for rageposters

so i think it was a high variance play, the benefit that math suggested was it taints the info of the entire day, which i mean, i guess

[OkaPoka]

math of course says as a result we should use yesterday as the basis for everything because scum wanted to taint it

i dont even know how we would 'do' that

[OkaPoka]

winter flakes (alt of uncrowned

this is irrelevant but

is this a meme im missing out of i swear to god everyone is saying this

[OkaPoka]

i honestly have mastina in that too scummy to be scum category

[OkaPoka]

i know he's an alt of uncrowned but we keep saying he's an alt of uncrowned to the point where its becoming weirdly funny to me

[OkaPoka]

lmao how have you not reevaluated your reads

[OkaPoka]

did you really just edit these votecounts incorrectly to make yourself look better what the fuck

[OkaPoka]

oh that is slimy

Vote Count 2.10 (FINAL)

Luca Blight

(8): Winter Flakes, OkaPoka,

Titus

,

Almost50

, Bell,

Cephrir

Almost50

(2): AGar, Ythan

OkaPoka

(1): Hopkirk

Titus

(1): innocentvillager

Not Voting

(2): jjh927, Xtoxm

Vote Count 1.5

hercule

(7): Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst/Bell,

Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta

(4):

hercule

, Hopkirk, innocentvillager

the worst/Bell

(2): jjh927, Winter Flakes

DrippingGoofball

(1): Xtoxm

Not Voting

(2):

Titus

, AGar

that is yours:

this is actual

5

Towards the end of the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975), the character of King Arthur repeatedly confuses the number five with the number three.

Vote Count 1.5

hercule

(7): Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst, Dannflor, Dunnstral, Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta

(4): DrippingGoofball, hercule, Hopkirk, innocentvillager

the worst

(2): jjh927, Winter Flakes

Dannflor

(1): mastina

Almost50

(1): Almost50

DrippingGoofball

(1): Xtoxm

Not Voting

(2): Titus, AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

you left dgb one vote and removed your vote on dann?

[OkaPoka]

you removed all your votes for consistency but its more work to remove your votes so there isnt the lazy excuse lol

you colored dgb anyways too

what is going on with these colorings

[OkaPoka]

whats the point of purging votes tho

[OkaPoka]

im wounded but then again mastina thinks i townread dgb or something

[OkaPoka]

too scummy to be scum lmao alright im dipping

[OkaPoka]

i just read that post and it feels like you are arguing why you are scum lmao this is truly a spectator sport

[OkaPoka]

so if i take a look at your reads before luca red'd your saying that titus was scum, winter falkes was town, jjh was being defended, ceph was scum?

because no

[OkaPoka]

post lld flip i still like everyone from the core of lld pushers tbh(/d) (Mastina/Xtoxm/DGB/Herc despite rep leaving)
so most likely gamestate is that scum were happy to let us park there and either doing not much or pushing alternatives too. probably some scum towards the end of LLD given the early push are town independently

dunn claiming town was useful

Ceph is probably better than i was viewing yesterday on an LLD townflip

Agar prob still scum

And this folks is an example of why Hopkirk is in my townbloc.

I similarly stand by a townbloc of townblocs of Hopkirk, IV (not listed in Hopkirk's town but good reasons to be there), Xtoxm, and Cephrir.

Luca's posting on D2 makes me want to re-add the slot there as well and it's good to know I'm not alone in continuing my townread there, soooooo:

Hopkirk
innocentvillager
Xtoxm
hercule/Luca Blight
Cephrir
^This is the townbloc: the names that are very very strongly town, to the point of never being eliminated. Cephrir's maybe a bit iffy there I realize, he's a good scum player, but I don't think his conviction on DGB comes from scum here.

jjh927
Dunnstral
^This is the townlock: the names that were very very strongly town on D1, but on D2 I'm not sure are townbloc material. I still maintain that they are poor eliminations.

Almost50
Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned)
^This is the upper-mess ("the mess" being a term I'm borrowing from Spawn in the OPL): players I was townreading on D1, but not enough to lock them as town, who're still possible as scum.

the worst/Bell
Ythan
^This is the lower-mess: players who I scumread on D1, but had reasonable doubts about where they showed they could be town, with them having reasons to not be scum.


OkaPoka
AGar
^These are the strong scumreads, scumreads I feel I have damn good foundation for.

Titus
^this is the person who I just went to make a case on.

Okay I think I am going to bed at the bottom of 144, to do 145 onward tomorrow.
I will fight hard against eliminations on: {Hopkirk, innocentvillager, Xtoxm, hercule/Luca Blight, Cephrir, Dunnstral, probably-jjh}
I disapprove of eliminations on: {jjh}
I will explicitly wagon: {AGar, OkaPoka, Bell}

Wagonwise I am now unsure on: {Titus, Almost50, Winter Flakes, Ythan}

Winter Flakes is the towniest of the unsure on, Ythan I literally just deleted from the disapprove-of-eliminations pile as I had him there but am second-guessing myself there asking "What if Ythan is this game's Xtoxm?" with his toxicity being a mask for being scum the same way Xtoxm was last game, but I otherwise don't think he's scum.

This is explicitly not a readslist, but I actually think it is more helpful than one right now.

transition from this does not feel like you cared the slightest luca red'd and well id assume luca red'ing would shift your world view since you know, well

gestures to everything

townbloc is the same

scum poe is basically the same

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[OkaPoka]

yes i would have because trimming down the vote counts is extra work and misrepresents things for the rest of us, (and also are you arguing that seeing where conftowns are being voted and who they are voting is not helpful?) so you are actively going out of your way to do work that is bad

instead you just seek penance for your sins and come serve my holy order

[OkaPoka]

3/4 = 75%
14/18 = 77.8%

0/1 = 0%
4/14 = 22.2%

[OkaPoka]

4/18*

[OkaPoka]

13/17 = 76%

[OkaPoka]

i'm 3/4 right on flipped town and 0/1 on flipped scum, my reads aren't shit
flipping the scum i'm not on doesn't mean i'm wrong on the others, the rest of my poe can be fine and i think it is

Ur reads are close to rand aka why are you locking the same solve and same poe when u have rand reads

[OkaPoka]

except this isnt a dice game where each roll is independent from each other

not saying ur garbage

[OkaPoka]

okay

d1

hop says lld wagon core is all gucci

d2

after lld flips town, hop says lld wagon core is all gucci

d3

herc, part of the lld cuties has flipped scum, he says the lld wagon core is all gucci

i mean

is this a realistic thought process from town

double double down

[OkaPoka]

me shading ur reads is one way of me extracting why you keep doubling down

i am not saying ur reads are shit and should be flipped upside down

just wondering, why you doubling down

[OkaPoka]

just throwing this idea out there

maybe the only people townreading luca by eod2 was scum so scum just cut there losses

because this is asinine

i distinctly remember lld core townreading each other for pushing lld together, but now the argument is they are town independent of lld push?

[OkaPoka]

ill go quote digging later today bye

[OkaPoka]

so

i stand corrected

hopkirk appears to be... consistent in his townreads being independent from pushing lld with him

i will say his solve of me/agar appears to be derived from lld being scum

anyways that was exhausting

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: jjh

i think this is worse than winter flakes and thus bottom

[OkaPoka]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12607961

start here come back to me if you still have questions

[OkaPoka]

what

[OkaPoka]

ur too soft these days ythan

[OkaPoka]

i had no clue it was about you until ythan voted a50 and i was like oh lmao

i thought ythan was gambitting or something

[OkaPoka]

is it anti town for you to explain what you thought was happening? if you don't think it is im curious bc it seemed like you were one of the people making me feel dumb for not knowing what was going on lol

sometimes its fun to fuck around and this is not something that really mattered

although it depends on the time frame because i didnt know ythan thought they were masons until i said illuminati

[OkaPoka]

the hop thing is somewhat self resolving isn't it?

[OkaPoka]

maybe we should just give scum a list of nk targets at this point

[OkaPoka]

and for some reason i was fine with that i wonder why could it be

the power of math

[OkaPoka]

it means my entire scumteam is in that pool right? so if i label someone town outside that pool you are mandated to townread them?

[OkaPoka]

so if you truly believe that, agar is town and you have to unvote him

[OkaPoka]

yeah but ive given up which means i would know i can't win the event which means my entire scumteam has to be ahead of me, that's your logic not mine.

[OkaPoka]

and at least one town person is ahead of me so no matter if i win or lose i can't win right

i think that's what you are saying

anyways the point is we can move to step 2 if im defending someone who can't be my partner im either scum defending town in which case good, town defending town, or town defending scum which is the rarest right

right

[OkaPoka]

i would like to control a50's votes and if that means wearing the tinfoil then ill wear the tinfoil and prove why he can't vote half the playerlist i dont want him to vote you know

[OkaPoka]

yeah but one being ahead of me, i mean there are 3 other ongoing games other than this one, anything can happen. only way im going to give up is if the % is so low, aka everyone? right? if im scum im not going to give up because one or two other guys are ahead of me, im going to surrender if its all 3. hell i might not even surrender if its all 3, there plenty of other games going on and anything can happen. i guess then i have to be town then and you should trust my reads right

[OkaPoka]

if ur not a50 u can ignore my posts

this is just entertaining to me

[OkaPoka]

well if its what you believe you have to otherwise is it what you believe?

[OkaPoka]

@a50



you know you want to im town off ur logic

[OkaPoka]

are euphemisms banned?

[OkaPoka]

no i want the opposite im not joining you

you are joining me

[OkaPoka]

hmmm but the human coup needs a show of unity and i cant play into stereotypes and chicken out on the wagon im parked on it

[OkaPoka]

im convinced

VOTE: agar[\vote]

[OkaPoka]

hop now that lld is not here we can talk freely

i got shat on by lld for bringing up rc, did you really think that bringing up rc again is you know, not in poor taste? i think you made a joke in poor taste but i mean you have to admit it was in poor taste

[OkaPoka]

im convinced

VOTE: agar[\vote]

is that a real vote

idk on AGar anymore either, he's back in my PoE, even though he's playing quite differently from his one recent scumgame and sort of being his town!tunnelly self i guess that just doesn't mean much

votes are a societal construct

that being said agar is in my townpool

[OkaPoka]

lmao so mastina is playing politics

[OkaPoka]

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

[OkaPoka]

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina

no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[OkaPoka]

come fly with me ceph, come fly away

[OkaPoka]

i would like that too ceph, i would like that too

[OkaPoka]

Fair warning: will be fairly V/LA due to lifeguard training stuff. Can post right now tho, so...

No one ever fucking considered that scum might *gasp*

lie

.

To be fair.
I presented doubt towards Titus for that exact reason.

However.

This is a roleclaim that will literally be confirmed by another player. It's not something scum will lie about, especially not in the way Hopkirk did. The evolution of the claimed result was incredibly genuine.

VOTE: AGar

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes so AGar's not my first choice, but he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh and has a high chance of flipping scum, soooooooo.

are we going to ignore how bad this post is

[OkaPoka]

lmao so mastina is playing politics

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina

no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[OkaPoka]

wf what are your thoughts on mastina, more specifically:

Fair warning: will be fairly V/LA due to lifeguard training stuff. Can post right now tho, so...

No one ever fucking considered that scum might *gasp*

lie

.

To be fair.
I presented doubt towards Titus for that exact reason.

However.

This is a roleclaim that will literally be confirmed by another player. It's not something scum will lie about, especially not in the way Hopkirk did. The evolution of the claimed result was incredibly genuine.

VOTE: AGar

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes so AGar's not my first choice, but he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh and has a high chance of flipping scum, soooooooo.

are we going to ignore how bad this post is

lmao so mastina is playing politics

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina

no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[OkaPoka]

oh wtf

@Oka I quoted those 3 and tried to ask you to expand on that bc I’m dumb and can’t read between the lines

Look at the gamestate when mastina voted AGar. AGar was at 4 votes and jjh was at 2, except AGar was also a building wagon and jjh had you expressing uncertainty.

So what mastina is basically saying is she wants to vote her third scumread rather than pushing me or bell because she is scared of jjh being eliminated? Mind you we had 10 days left on the deadline as well so this isn't a deadline thing. And we know mastina doesn't like playing politics, she explicitly said so d1 if you remember. So why is she putting AGar @ e2, scumread n3 with so much time left on the deadline? Well, I think it's because she's just trying to pull a fast one tbh, disguising it as 'protecting' jjh is extremely wolfy imo because its a lie. JJH doesn't need protection, she's not playing politics, she's openwolfing it.

[OkaPoka]

(it's a highly opportunistic vote and I caught her dead to rights for the opportunism because jjh thing, though it sounds good, is a lie if you think for more than a minute about it)

[OkaPoka]

then you say that and not some bs about jjh

[OkaPoka]

If I have three scumreads but there's a wagon on the third-strongest and absolutely zero votes on either my strongest OR second-strongest scumreads.

Why wouldn't I vote for the third-strongest scumread? It's still a scumread. It's not as confident of a scumread. It's not as assured of a scumread. It's a scumread with a higher chance of being wrong. But it's still a scumread, but just a weaker one.

this is the 'legitimate' reason for voting agar

but you didn't mention it, you chose to mention

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes so AGar's not my first choice, but

he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh

and has a high chance of flipping scum, soooooooo.

besides we aren't at deadline and you are compromising to go door no 3?

[OkaPoka]

are you softing?

[OkaPoka]

I have my reasons

[OkaPoka]

could've said that when you voted agar but you didn't, you chose to make it about saving jjh which i showed that is just not an actual thought process. making this about building up an agar wagon because you can't do me or bell is something you've pivoted to so you can win this argument. but if you believed that when you voted agar, you would've said it

[OkaPoka]

you aren't saving jjh because jjh isn't/wasn't actually competing against agar, nothing is competing against agar. i think everyone in the plist understands that now

[OkaPoka]

but also whatever, are you softing jjh is town? its the only way your play makes sense

[OkaPoka]

If I have three scumreads but there's a wagon on the third-strongest and absolutely zero votes on either my strongest OR second-strongest scumreads.

Why wouldn't I vote for the third-strongest scumread? It's still a scumread. It's not as confident of a scumread. It's not as assured of a scumread. It's a scumread with a higher chance of being wrong. But it's still a scumread, but just a weaker one.

this is the 'legitimate' reason for voting agar
but you didn't mention it, you chose to mention

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes

so AGar's not my first choice, but he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh and

has a high chance of flipping scum

, soooooooo.

I did mention it--the bolded is saying exactly that.

There are three scum in the game.

Voting my third-strongest scumread when there are three scum in the game means...
...Exactly what I said. If I have three scumreads, but no votes on the first or second, that I am willing to join the wagon on the third because they are still a scumread.

AGar is my third preference, not my first.
There's still three scum in the game though.
And AGar has a high chance of flipping scum--not the highest (that's explicitly you, OkaPoka), not the second-highest (that'd be Bell), but still a HIGH chance of flipping scum.

I was V/LA, distracted, in a rush, which I also said. So sure, I could have elaborated on it more ideally, but the intention is there pretty damn clearly and unambiguously and I can prove it, too--because literally the entirety of my iso will back me up in me having precisely that stance. This isn't some sudden out of left-field curve from me where I suddenly shifted my reads or stance; this is a position I've held for the entirety of D3 and partially before then, too.

no its very clear what you meant. you meant you voted agar to save jjh. that's literally it. you added all this extra stuff now to make your argument more feasible.

[OkaPoka]

in fact if you naked voted agar the conclusion would honestly be closer to the obvious one: being that agar was a scumread with an existing wagon

but you had to do what you love to do and throw in extra clarification, made up something about jjh and then left the thread. now that the jjh argument is being undermined, you've gone back and were like oh yeah let me add the actually good arguments now.

[OkaPoka]

Here's what actually happened: you saw agar had a bunch of votes and you were alone and wanted agar flipped. So you voted agar and were like, I can't just vote agar, I'm mastina, I gotta have an explanation for everything.

And you just scanned the vc and were like well jjh has some votes let me throw something about jjh in there, make my vote more interesting and nuanced by putting agar at third, alright good to go.

And then now that you are being called out, you've gone back to the drawing board and are adding actually good arguments, I can't dispute the good arguments, what I can say is if you thought of these ideas, you would've said it initially.

[OkaPoka]

its not even about coherency, it is absolutely crystal what you meant when you voted agar. you've changed the argument.

[OkaPoka]

maybe change is too broad, you've shifted the emphasis. everyone damn well knows what your agar vote was about.

[OkaPoka]

they are 'good' arguments now in that they are more congruent with her actions. she's on the defense and arguing why her actions are congruent with her thoughts.

[OkaPoka]

jjh is town like hercule was town and xtoxm was town and abr was town or jjh is town because implosion told you.

[OkaPoka]

tell me specific things that resonate with you jjh

[OkaPoka]

and let's establish the meaning of resonate, you mean agree with?

[OkaPoka]

elaborate with specific stuff please @jjh

[OkaPoka]

unless you literally mean everything in which case I'll start quoting specific things

[OkaPoka]

mastina your entire gameplay feels like maintaining plausible deniability. im going to hold your feet to the fire, do you have a mech clear on jjh?

[OkaPoka]

So you think you've towntold this game?

[OkaPoka]

can you explain what your towntell is?

[OkaPoka]

No because you are unable to or don't want to?

[OkaPoka]

jjh if you talked about what you had for breakfast it'd be helpful to everyone because 'gestures to your iso'

[OkaPoka]

anything else that resonates with you?

[OkaPoka]

I think it does need saying but I'm offering you a redirect to elaborate on something else

[OkaPoka]

Mastina prove me wrong then. I have my reasons that I'm perfectly willing to out and explain and everyone can cross examine my reasons for getting you to explicitly say whether you have hard cleared jjh or not.

[OkaPoka]

can i interest you in a vote on mastina

[OkaPoka]

Hakuna matata, what a wonderful phrase!

[OkaPoka]

so sad ceph didnt start singing along with me how else am i going to convince u to vote mastina

[OkaPoka]

feel free to read my iso lol

alternatively use ctrl+f

[OkaPoka]

is it cuz im not being an australian best friend

[OkaPoka]

i will say if i had more time on my hands id be a real australian best friend this game but that takes a lot of effort to write for

[OkaPoka]

cute as always

[OkaPoka]

i also kind of forgot why I thought xtoxm was town

more intense engagement I guess? auro high efforting? idk

not being a bum

cute as always

why aren’t you an obvtown read for me yet oka

should I think you’re obvtown here?

i think im obvtown yes but also im not going to be a dick about it because nothing is more annoying than people saying their obvtown

[OkaPoka]

its why everyone is townreading him yes

[OkaPoka]

i believe it enough to bet the game on him being town and i watched the last team mafia normal game with him rolling scum to know that he's not going to snap his fingers and change

[OkaPoka]

i think im obvtown yes

I guess I asked because sometimes when I start to high effort I feel like people should just see this as out of my scumrange and that I’m obvtown

whereas other games when I can’t really understand what’s going on and lurk/don’t SOC, I feel like, more okay when people don’t TR me

I think I was curious about your self perceived towniness based on somethjng like that

meh, after baton pass -where i was at my peak towniness and still got betrayed- anything is possible

[OkaPoka]

and besides, people scumreading me is a sign of respect you know. that's something im okay with. id be very angry if xtoxm voted me and said im doing this because policy. but he said something along the lines of voting me is like looking for deepwolf, that gives me a certain sense of snuggliness.

[OkaPoka]

xtoxm ive had u locktown yesterday when i said id bet the game on u being town

[OkaPoka]

*taking notes*

[OkaPoka]

The name's Poka, OkaPoka

[OkaPoka]

meh, maybe mastina would be powerwolfing d1 but d2 and d3 have been the regurgitation of the same few arguments rebaked over and over

[OkaPoka]

because following through on a bop for the sake of bop is stupid

[OkaPoka]

meh, maybe mastina would be powerwolfing d1 but d2 and d3 have been the regurgitation of the same few arguments rebaked over and over

tl;dr this for me?

well tell me what you like about her d2 and d3 gameplay

[OkaPoka]

if you have a crushing PoE then why are you afraid to out whether your townlock on jjh is a mech clear or not?

[OkaPoka]

ceph in like a few days im going to be in midterm season and even though ive said ive been busy, when its midterm szn im truly busy and will probably appear in thread to vote and thats about it

and my team has stopped reading the game sooooo

[OkaPoka]

fuck off

[OkaPoka]

are you... purposely torpedoing the mastina wagon? bell do u even scumread mastina

[OkaPoka]

do you scumread her?

[OkaPoka]

xtoxm, how do you feel about my arguments wrt to mastina

[OkaPoka]

i dont feel like mastina's openly pushed me yet this game and im #1 on her scumlist

how do u feel about that

that's my issue r.n., i feel like mastina's going after the easier targets you know? like its mastina. going after #3 and not even testing me is idk. makes me feel like she's trying to stack the deck against me before she tries. on one hand sure agar is #3 but on the other hand putting him to e2 makes me not feel good. its the easier route but she hasn't even opened my door yet.

[OkaPoka]

like we had lots of time and im supposedly #1 on her scumlist and she's had plenty of time to write all these bad things about me but she hasn't actually propositioned to push me as a lim.

[OkaPoka]

yeah i know im a viable wagon, but a50 is the driver not her

it does bother me that mastina, after we removed quite possibly her biggest obstacle, has gone from the driver to a passenger you know? idk maybe im nuts

[OkaPoka]

@mastina
yeah you can't force of will a lim but literallly nobody here can/will solo force of will a lim. you still are taking a back seat and i dont think that's in dispute. you quoting a bunch of posts is not a push onto me. its more of you continually checking the thread to see if anyone bites. but you are too scared to actually push me by yourself and maybe expose yourself to be out hanging alone. that's why you are scum.

lld? you said she was scum but didn't commit to her until a wagon existed a framework was there to work off of. too scared to actually try the wagon and find the votes until someone else (dgb) bit.

you've been voting lhfs d2/d3 and pushing the same solve, but the one person in your scumlist (me) who is talkative and might have some resistance - and you are too self-conscious or whatever to put yourself out there and actually push me. im not saying shade me for not being like last game, im saying legitimately putting your foot down and finding the votes for me and trying to push me as scum. if im scum here and so many people are townreading me to the point where you can't pull a lim on me, why aren't you working harder to get me limmed? you seem awfully - complacent about my slot provided that im your top scumread and have been a top scumread since d1 and you think that im a widely townread slot. something doesn't align here. do you think im scum and widely townread or not?

and so what if im political? what's your point. i enjoy that aspect. you don't.

[OkaPoka]

like on one hand if mastina pushes me id be annoyed as hell and want to play sudoku but on the other hand if im this slot that's supposedly your top scumread and you think you can't lim me because im widely townread, presumably you'd be working your ass off to get me limmed but instead you are just voting other people? like if i never brought this up id suspect you'd maybe make a throwaway comment about how you still scumread me for the rest of the day but im waiting for you to actually push me.

i feel like if i were in town!mastina's shoes, id be camping out on okapoka and practically begging people to convince them of a world of okapoka scum. but you are just too complacent with this.

[OkaPoka]

it all leads back to the agar vote imo. too excited with no hesitation onto an e2 vote. its opportunistic and openwolfy. using jjh as a shield.

[OkaPoka]

well for one thing she hasn't voted me this game at all

not entirely sure about

significantly

more passive though. i will say upon rereading mastina's iso, she was pretty timid about voting lld until dgb pushed her. like she was first to express a sr on lld sure, but she hops around basically until dgb commits to lld where she parks for the rest of d1. im not accusing her of begging people to vote for her scumreds, i am saying that she should be begging if she thinks im scum numba 1 and im widely townread. there is just no sense of uh oh from her. i don't think its a playstyle thing, mastina is a pretty combative player. maybe not in your face combative but she does fight to make things her way. i dont see any of that uh oh from mastina.

[OkaPoka]

i think its very clear im not widely townread though and plenty of people sus me. but she does.

[OkaPoka]

bro you were in the last game and you saw how she kinda led the charge on dismantling the xtoxm and abr wagons. to be fair she also charged in pushing ceph and herc so its not about her read accuracy. she was a lot more hardline last game yes.

[OkaPoka]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12542065

this is the closest parallel i can find rn

[OkaPoka]

i will note that i felt like she fought with me a whole of a lot more last game when she literally had me as her top townread than this game.

[OkaPoka]

ill look at game 1 again later

however i do think that maybe mastina treated you similarly across games specifically, but i don't see much fight in her in general where as in game 1 and in another game (doubles) she fought a lot harder to get things her way. so maybe it looks similar but i dont think it is.

[OkaPoka]

holistically, mastina did a lot more defending that game than pushing imo

[OkaPoka]

i legit cannot really find much casework on agar last game

[OkaPoka]

Much as I'm tempted to join: my entire case on Ceph here falls apart if AGar doesn't flip scum. It'd be smarter to check AGar first, no? If AGar flips scum, my theory may have merit, but an AGar townflip invalidates my case on Ceph. (Well, unless IV is scum in which case I got it backwards, but balance of probability, AGar town = my case on Ceph is wrong.)
Avata

[OkaPoka]

hmm

[OkaPoka]

v/la until saturday

[OkaPoka]

ill catch up tomorrow or something this is just an acknowledgement of my existence

[OkaPoka]

i lied

i speedskimmed my hands are diamond okay bye

[OkaPoka]

Bc my wagon bigger and better

[OkaPoka]

wow deadline is pretty close

iv i appoint you to herd wagons etc. my availability will be plummeted these coming 2 ish weeks as midterm szn has begun for me

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: titus

[OkaPoka]

i guess everyone is taking midterms with me!

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: bell

[OkaPoka]

l1 btw

[OkaPoka]

i am either/or tbh and with deadline and my availability being a ??? im just going to throw my vote

[OkaPoka]

why did u leave mastina for titus then

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: mastina

okay google yeah set a reminder

[OkaPoka]

intent to hammer i guess

[OkaPoka]

(expired on 2021-03-09 01:02:03)

[OkaPoka]

look at the deadline dude

[OkaPoka]

i don't townread her

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: titus

still going to hammer bell when the timer expires i think

anyways gtg

[OkaPoka]

huh

so ythan is the tiebreaker

[OkaPoka]

gl

[OkaPoka]

Alright I'm going to bed

[OkaPoka]

i am joat commuter/hider see all star

with that being said i deserve to die and i have midterms so uhh /shrug

mastina is scum though gl

[OkaPoka]

although

why doesnt the "town neapolitan" look into a claimed vt

lol

[OkaPoka]

someone look into that tomorrow peace

[OkaPoka]

if jjh is town Neapolitan the invests make no sense: ythan pretty much softed vt and titus outright claimed vt and he's not going to get 100% clears

ahh is mastina town then

[OkaPoka]

too much work sorry lads i have a midterm tomorrow and ive been grinding a past exam for the past two hours and the outlook - not so good

[OkaPoka]

cya guys next week basically unless you kill me in which case someone carry on my legacy

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: jjh

[OkaPoka]

am i crazy? jjh's invests should've been on ythan and titus? does nobody else see that? choosing me and hop as the invest targets is +scumequity. im okay with you guys limming me but i hope you guys understand that jjh's checks means he's scum lol

[OkaPoka]

i know i am right but if literally everyone else disagrees with me maybe then its not scummy ig i thought optimal checks are obv whatever

[OkaPoka]

not claiming my actions because if i die i die and my actions aren't going to solve anything and if i live then i have the power to dodge nks and the ev threat of that is better than anything else, maybe ill claim shots if im at l1 with intent and no backsies

although it should be pretty obvious i used a nk dodge n1

[OkaPoka]

although weirdly enough i think jjh understands its optimal to check ythan and titus. he's a smart boy. the only question is do you think he's confident enough on ythan town and titus town to bet the game on them being town. because in effect that's what he is arguing why he checked suboptimally. like jjh understands optimal checks here i don't see why nobody else does.

[OkaPoka]

that's not how hider works

[OkaPoka]

(that's how weak hider works)

[OkaPoka]

why hasn't hop claimed yet btw?

pedit: because his checks don't line up with a town alignment

[OkaPoka]

You're substituting a question you like better for the one I asked

im saying his choice of neapolitan checks are what makes him scum in my eyes? that is my theory?

[OkaPoka]

easy-he isn't a ub but a scum neapolitan

[OkaPoka]

idk could be dgb could be novice could be holstered

[OkaPoka]

how is that outlandish

[OkaPoka]

the thing is jjh knows the checks are suboptimal - he's arguing that its not suboptimal because he is so confident in ythan and titus.

[OkaPoka]

in fact half the list seemingly doesn't get that its suboptimal but the one person who instantly got it when i brought it up was jjh. so yeah

[OkaPoka]

well do you understand why jjh's checks are scummy?

[OkaPoka]

ill give an example, iv here doesn't understand why im pushing jjh and thinks that im just voting him because he has a guilty on me and is equating it to some abr game so if he had the nea checks, understandably he'd make the suboptimal check and it wouldn't be scummy because if its sitting in front of him and he doesn't get it, he's not going to come up with the optimal check.

jjh however in response to me accusing him of making suboptimal checks, instantly got it and went on the defense arguing why ~actually~ he made the 'optimal' check, because in his view yeah he made the wrong check and its obvious he made the wrong check, he just has to create a worldview where it looks like the right check.

[OkaPoka]

its not scummy be misplay but it is scummy to misplay when you understand optimal play

[OkaPoka]

i guess in your case it might not be scummy if you made suboptimal checks but i might be a little sad you did so, but jjh clearly understands why ythan and titus were the checks to be made here. his reaction is telling

[OkaPoka]

sad chicken noises

[OkaPoka]

Ok im getting annoyed now

Even if you justify not checking ythan why are you not checking titus
Why cant jjh be novice or have targeted jjh
Why do i claim shots on an ability that's purpose is to dodge nks and serves no other purpose

[OkaPoka]

Targeted dgb*

[OkaPoka]

Look im always dying today idc about convincing you guys im town i just need to convince u guys jjh is scum otherwise yoy flip me and it has no impact

[OkaPoka]

And like justifying by saying titus was townie enough is such a stupid argument esp when she just got pushed yesterday, u want to full clear her and make an unbeatable poe not flip on a baron with a 5k gold lead

[OkaPoka]

Iv u srs? I SHOULDN'T live past today id be disappointed if u guys let me live past today

[OkaPoka]

Who said i had no doubt its my most conf read and also thats not how occams razor works