Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[MathBlade]

I think SirCakez is better because then we learn if Cakez was a town wagon counter to Mastina or not.

I'm considering this. It's not a bad idea.

For the record, I like and hate this.

I like you’re seeing what I do and it’s not bad.

I hate you’re not trying to rally others or sort through it openly.

[MathBlade]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

[MathBlade]

They were both scum reading/pointing the finger at Bork before they got nked. I'm genuinely surprised you hadn't noticed Math. /:
There are obvious issues with that take though. Those kills generally make sense even in a non-scum-bork world. It could have been a 2 birds one stone action or it could be unrelated. There are a bunch of people that have motivation to kill Sangres/LLD/KTT.

I have a migraine and Sangres’s reads day one kinda had a memory exception.

I kinda think bork’s posting has been pretty good at least on the surface after my initial Ping he’s improved. His latest post I want to see him expand on but my pool of scum PoE has a lot more people scummier than him.

[MathBlade]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

A cogent point. I still think scum are pushing her wagon though. The only one really interested in diverting it is me and to a lesser extent you through the alternative Sircakez recommendation. It's simply difficult to read Titus given the factors I'm aware of.

Pedit: I mean, one of the goals of scum is to have their posting look good on the surface. /:

@Tammy, That's a lot of questions. My meaning was that your read does not appear to have progressed. I am aware of your tendency to waffle.

It’s quite possible scum are manipulating this both ways or both are scum.

My point was ideally we would have had this song and dance day two. Titus’s denial of this day two when this was her logic for Pooky is off. Scum may be pushing her wagon but maybe a planned bus or a poor faith wagon. However combining this with D1 there almost certainly has to be scum in d1 wagon on Cakez whether it’s Cakez himself or others an all town counter wagon to scum D1 is almost never a thing. So by forcing the game into a narrower PoE scum’s cards have to be laid out like chess.

I think I caught Titus D1 when I shrunk her PoE I think she was trying to miselim Pooky. I just need people to double check me and if I am wrong tell me why I am. Or if I am right hooray.

[MathBlade]

To be clear I do not have a parity/wagon cop but it creates the same results to use what is extremely likely scum exist then people have to take stances or bussing sometimes happens unless it’s unavoidable.

[MathBlade]

Did I miss a pr claim?

Nope you didn’t.

I am saying my effects and suggestion act as one if people understand there is likely at least one scum in my listed PoE.

[MathBlade]

Doing VCA on D1 wagons when you don't even know Cakez alignment is pretty futile

+1

That’s why the closest I can get is a PoE.

If Cakez is town then Dunn or Titus almost certainly is scum.
If Cakez is scum found scum on the Cakez wagon and it’s possible everyone else is town and scum were all on the Mastina wagon.

Hence why I really wish Cakez was vigged/checked/something.

[MathBlade]

People let Titus do her VCA and we will see if it is decent or just as bad as the rest.
Ie is she assuming Cakez town in it?

Does she need to do two VCAs to avoid inherent biases.

Mainly her play has been all assumptions and she needs to just do it.

[MathBlade]

And what if Cakez is scum?

Where is your VCA for that?

You keep saying Cakez is likely town.

What this reads to me is elim Cakez and if he flips red elim you, or elim you first in the PoE of three because of vote orders when LLD+Pooky were a leashed unit and your VCA is not accounting for that. Even if you disagree with the mason read VCA should treat LLD+Pooky as one position.

[MathBlade]

someone talk to me about the game, something interesting and fresh.

Also, Pooky got my back so he better not vote anywhere I don't vote.

I'm watching you bear. That foam finger should have my face on it.

Literally anywhere LLD voted Pooky would vote.

This feels like the billionth time I have quoted this post:

How many times do they say “got your back” with each other?

So many times they need to open a firey bear spa.

Foam finger in LLD’s avatar is a #1. Top town reads are your #1 reads aka mason partner

I can do this all day Titus.

Your VCA is flawed or you’re scum here.

You should have put me in it if you’re scum.

[MathBlade]

someone talk to me about the game, something interesting and fresh.

Also, Pooky got my back so he better not vote anywhere I don't vote.

I'm watching you bear. That foam finger should have my face on it.

Literally anywhere LLD voted Pooky would vote.

This feels like the billionth time I have quoted this post:

How many times do they say “got your back” with each other?

So many times they need to open a firey bear spa.

Foam finger in Pooky’s avatar is a #1. Top town reads are your #1 reads aka mason partner

I can do this all day Titus.

Your VCA is flawed or you’re scum here.

You should have put me in it if you’re scum.

Edit by way of post.

I mean I wish I was scum.

I am sad I am not

[MathBlade]

Since you won’t give me an honest discussion with an honest VCA taking into account all parameters I guess this discussion is done and I just keep my vote on you. You don’t get to demand I have to lie in thread in order to get what is likely BS from you. You’re not even following your own rules of VCA.

The static nature of Cakez v Titus v Mastina (which you I guess typoed) does not indicate max one scum. Hell if all three of us were scum (I am not I am just positing it for sake of argument) then a wagon stall is bound to happen with how lurky Mastina was. You had a lot of time to do this, why does this read like you’ve made a conclusion before you typed it?

“Still if Dunn is scum the Cakez wagon is overloaded” << This quite frankly is gibberish. Overloaded with what?

TvTvT is factually impossible with Mastina scum.

TVSVS makes a lot more sense as to why things were stalled.

And that is just the first paragraph Titus.

Town you is better than this.

[MathBlade]

Let me put it this way.
A mason I am not expecting would have to flip to get me to consider I am wrong on Pooky.

The problem resolved itself.

[MathBlade]

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make my words dishonest, antitown or anything else.

Yes, the static nature of those wagons does mean at max 1 scum. If SirCakez and mastina were both scum, then the wagon on me would have taken off rather than disintegrating.

Overloaded with scum. You can ask a question because you're confused rather than jumping to a negative conclusion.

Go ahead and present your own VCA and reads list.

You can engage with my reads by play.

For the rest of you, I intend to combine my VCA and play reads into a final categorized readwall.

My VCA is simple.
Mastina flipped scum.
It is unlikely by play that three scum are on Mastina.
Therefore there is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/Pooky.
LLD was leashed to Pooky(a fact regardless of alignment) so LLD was a double voter.
So even if you disagree with mason claim it is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/me.
I am not scum and would never include me in a PoE.

You adamantly deny Dunn and Cakez are scum so that leaves me with the most probable option you being scum.

End VCA

[MathBlade]

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make my words dishonest, antitown or anything else.

Yes, the static nature of those wagons does mean at max 1 scum. If SirCakez and mastina were both scum, then the wagon on me would have taken off rather than disintegrating.

Overloaded with scum. You can ask a question because you're confused rather than jumping to a negative conclusion.

Go ahead and present your own VCA and reads list.

You can engage with my reads by play.

For the rest of you, I intend to combine my VCA and play reads into a final categorized readwall.

My VCA is simple.
Mastina flipped scum.
It is unlikely by play that three scum are on Mastina.
Therefore there is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/Pooky.
LLD was leashed to Pooky(a fact regardless of alignment) so LLD was a double voter.
So even if you disagree with mason claim it is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/me.
I am not scum and would never include me in a PoE.

You adamantly deny Dunn and Cakez are scum so that leaves me with the most probable option you being scum.

End VCA

Leashed is NAI. Leashed just means Pooky takes no responsibility for his vote.

A VCA gives theories as to who is town and who is scum.

You're not giving theories. You're trying to force the game into your narrow pool. You don't give input as to which votes are bad or good. You arbitrarily decided that you want to search in a particular spot. Me telling you that you're wrong is not an invitation to vote me.

There are legitimate reasons to vote me. Refusing to vote town is not one of them.

VCA does not give theories.
It is simply a collection of facts and the facts speak for themselves.
I did not arbitrarily decide to search in a spot. I searched in a spot based on a simple question: Are all the scum bussing Mastina? No >> Boom PoE generated.
With later scum elims this isn’t always as cut and dry because day play etc has to be taken into account but on D1 it is highly unlikely all scum bus.

I don’t give input as to which votes are good or bad because I can’t without Cakez’s alignment.

If Cakez and Mastina are both scum the narrative is wildly different than if only Mastina is.

It can be quite possible that you’re TMIing Cakez town or wanting to die to make scum look better or Cakez is scum and you’re town (this possibility sucks) or it could be Cakez town you town Dunn scum (this is imho the worst because probably two miselims to find it out.

The only way this PoE is bad is if all the scum are bussing Mastina and/or Pooky is not a mason.
Which if you’re right and Pooky is not a mason and is scum (again I don’t believe this) then scum can’t ever kill a mason because they don’t know if two or three or what. As soon as they kill a mason who is not Pooky (unless they kill me then huzzah if I am third mason as it proves Pooky)

Pedit: Fine do you want Cakez today or Titus Pooky?

I don’t think Titus’s slot is salvageable here.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Cakez

Here you go Pooky. Enjoy your Cake.

[MathBlade]

@MathBlade Unless you are willing to discuss scum outside of me/Cakez/Dunn, please do not talk to me for 24 hours. I do not wish to have a conversation with someone who has no interest in talking about 3/4 of the game, engaging my read walls, or having a full and frank theoretical discussion about what the votes show. I do not want the same spammy discussion.

Why would I do this?
There is almost certainly > 75% chance one of you is scum.
Why would I talk outside that area and give scum a chance to breathe?

[MathBlade]

Oh yeah! Spiffeh had no artifacts

And why did you check Spiffeh?

This should not be pulling teeth dude.

Because I've been suspicious of him all game? It's not rocket science

It is slightly odd that Cakez would be so stand-offish about revealing the night action and justification. Then again, it's a tough roleclaim to fake, in the long run, if you don't have it. Although could it, or a mechanically equivalent modification, be a scum role? Maybe.

One for the mech nerds in the peanut gallery

This is so dumb
I wasn't standoffish until Math was all "bro why are you making this so difficult" when I literally wasn't

No you were just hoping to not share.

Like I still don’t get why Spiffeh? Why not check the very tiny PoE?

Your check is very odd.

What is the "tiny PoE"? I asked for input yesterday and nobody gave any, so I went on a check of someone who was not in the elim pool but could feasibly be scum. Like a Cop check.

I'll be reassessing Grey but thinking through this again with Math, there's no way Cakez or Dunn is scum.

So that means Pooky and/or Math are.
Battle Mage is still scum.

If one of my hero solve is wrong, I'll look for that in my VCA. In fact, I usually scumread a townbeard based on my VCA, so that's a thing.

I hate how Titus keeps saying she is going to reevaluate but never actually does it.

There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

She does that as scum Tammy.

Hey Tammy, Prism, Cakez, I know you guys have been engaging me a fair amount this game so that's great but all three of you keep saying if anyone's getting one over on you as scum it's me (Cakez has been more directly suspicious of me) so maybe if we can hash that out and you can mention your specific concerns for me to address that would make you feel better? I don't want to make this a big thing or waste pages on it but I'm townreading all three of you fairly confidently and feel it would be best if you all felt the same about me.

The three of you repeatedly stating your paranoia of me plus the "scum reads" from bork and Dunn are starting to irritate me and I don't want to become demotivated as a result.

My last three completed games on the site were scum games. I was, and am, exhausted of playing scum. Rolling scum in Pooky vs. FL and Tenet at the same time really damaged my enthusiasm to play it and if I were scum here I GUARANTEE I would not have provided one quarter of the content I have provided here. I don't think I've ever been this open and in depth as Town before but I was so excited I got a green PM in THIS playerlist that I wanted to actually hunt scum which is something I haven't been able to do for like a year.

Maybe this is unfair to unload on you guys because I know you're all just playing the game, and maybe it won't even accomplish that much but for the sake of more cohesiveness between myself and my town reads I would appreciate if you'd directly address your concerns rather than stew in paranoia until endgame, assuming we get there and any of us are still alive by then.

I do feel better since you had no artifacts and I feel you would have one by now if scum.
I just keep seeing posts from you where it looks like you have that "scum demotivation" you acknowledge you have had as a result of rolling scum so much lately.
And I'm concerned by how concerned you are about being scumread.

I mean I gave feedback multiple times and explained repeatedly scum has to be off the Mastina wagon. So you checking on the wagon is puzzling. Then trying to spin it around and say what PoE despite me screaming it for literally a week is dumb.

[MathBlade]

Math I have not been engaging your posts because whenever I try to you just go "lalalala" and put your fingers in your ears
so my check was not at all related to your wagon theories

Give me an example.

I don’t think you have any because I don’t do that.

Your check should have been if you’re town.

[MathBlade]

I just keep seeing posts from you where it looks like you have that "scum demotivation" you acknowledge you have had as a result of rolling scum so much lately.
And I'm concerned by how concerned you are about being scumread.

@Titus what do you think?

I said there are reasons to vote me. My demotivation has been one of them. My demotivation does not come from rolling scum a lot or my past scum games. If I was scum, I could fake energy and would ride Math's coattails to an elimination on you.

It's also a fair, but weak, reason to vote me simply because I have been wagoned so much.

There are legitimate reasons to policy vote me but matching my scum meta is not one.

I forgot to state my demotivation exists because of the mechanics, Math, and I feel like this will be a TENET repeat.

I have already stated previously why I think that’s a load of crap.

I thought we weren’t talking for 24 hours because I have a PoE.

[MathBlade]

I get a list of all artifacts someone has
Spiffeh did not have any

So you are scum
Or Bell+Spiffeh are
Because Bell said they gave Spiffeh an artifact to use on me or it’s a scum claim.
Spiffeh said he got it.

So I mean? Voting you is the right answer as much as Titus is pissing me off

[MathBlade]

I get a list of all artifacts someone has
Spiffeh did not have any

This is not what you said D1

[MathBlade]

@Bell Yes I thought we were trying to be subtle

I saw your instructions too

Spiffeh got something from Bell and Bell said to use it on me or scum claim
If you’re saying Spiffeh doesn’t have anything that’s a problem don’t you think?

[MathBlade]

claiming because deadline
I'm Steve Jinks, Artifact Detector
Each day I can target someone and will get a list of their artifacts at EoD
I haven't used it yet because I haven't seen something to use it for yet
I was hoping to hide this and catch somebody in a lie later

My bad I thought he was yes/no
Was mixing it up with lore

[MathBlade]

I received it at the start of Afternoon today.

Upon receipt, a player may choose to interact with one Artifact in their possession per game phase. They may either use it or transfer the selected Artifact to another player rather than using it. This counts as the player's Artifact interaction for the night.

Transfers may only be performed during the Night phase.

If transferred, the recipient will be informed of the Artifact's Power and Negative Effect. They may also use any non-Artifact actions they have from their role, including the factional kill if Mafia. There is a limit of one non-factional kill role action used per player per phase.

Uhm how Spiffeh?

[MathBlade]

That is when I received the PM from the mod, I can confirm with her if that was intended.

Please confirm because something is off from the OP.

The story from Cakez or you+Bell does not make sense

[MathBlade]

It makes total sense unfortunately.

Cakez submits last night.
Spiffeh gets artifact.
Cakez gets result.

Why is this unfortunate?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

I wanna see what Bell says.

[MathBlade]

If this is Titus Bell Spiffeh I will jump for freaking joy. Like literal joy here.

[MathBlade]

Why not? Titus thinks she’s going down so starts suggesting Spiffeh.
Bell and Spiffeh forget about the OP where it says transfers occur at night.
Titus being demoralized scum because she wants a town game.

It just fits?

[MathBlade]

I struggle to think why scum fucking up somewhere is an “unfortunate” thing like Titus says.

On the bright side I am looking a bit outside the PoE eh Titus?

[MathBlade]

It makes total sense unfortunately.

Cakez submits last night.
Spiffeh gets artifact.
Cakez gets result.

^^ not what you said?

[MathBlade]

If this is Titus Bell Spiffeh I will jump for freaking joy. Like literal joy here.

What happened to your PoE?

You’d be the scum in my PoE.

And Tammy fair, but let’s see what Bell says

[MathBlade]

Oh right.

Help me bus Spiffeh?

I wanna see what Bell says first and then think about this slowly to find the scum here.
Some made a mistake somewhere and I wanna find out what.

[MathBlade]

Because artifact transfers happen at night in the OP.

He’s saying that didn’t happen

Assuming you’re truthtelling You submit by end of day.
<< Spiffeh would receive artifact here
You get results end of night.

[MathBlade]

I received it at the start of Afternoon today.

Upon receipt, a player may choose to interact with one Artifact in their possession per game phase. They may either use it or transfer the selected Artifact to another player rather than using it. This counts as the player's Artifact interaction for the night.

Transfers may only be performed during the Night phase.

If transferred, the recipient will be informed of the Artifact's Power and Negative Effect. They may also use any non-Artifact actions they have from their role, including the factional kill if Mafia. There is a limit of one non-factional kill role action used per player per phase.

Uhm how Spiffeh?

<< this here

[MathBlade]

I submit at day time and get results at end of day not at night

?? That seems really dumb when Transfers only happen at night.

[MathBlade]

Hey does anyone want to post their reads and more content to see if we can get Bell’s response to when get back to see if we can reaction test him? If you think he is town it’s win win

[MathBlade]

I also have asked a question to the mod too but I don’t want to spoil Bell’s reaction if true.

[MathBlade]

Oh right.

Help me bus Spiffeh?

I wanna see what Bell says first and then think about this slowly to find the scum here.
Some made a mistake somewhere and I wanna find out what.

err why did Bell transfer an item to spiffeh in the middle of day? but more importantly, if spiffeh was scum...why admit that?

im confused, Mathblade help me out with the technical stuff.

The answer is I am confused.

The OP says artifacts are only transferred at night.

Which makes it incredibly silly for scum to lie about.

I want to see Bell’s response to this.

The mod obviously cannot lie.

I want to see if Bell says either A or B. A or B are town reactions.

A or B should not be said before Bell responds and require different responses.

[MathBlade]

where did Bell claim to transfer the item during the day?

i guess the simplest explanations would be either the Mod got it wrong in the OP, or Spiffeh and Bell are just scum? But both surprise me so I probably missed something key.

Bell can be town depending upon how he answers. I scumread him so I kinda want to hold back and make sure it’s not a I am tunnelled moment.

I agree neither conclusion seems to work so I kinda wanna see Bell’s response.

So I don’t want to spoil it by talking too much.

[MathBlade]

Item was distributed at end of morning. There are other ways to distribute artifacts. The idea that spiffeh and I are scum together and gambiting is itself just a ploy to get more information out of people probably.. or he’s misplaying. Either wouldn’t shock me.
I just got off from work so I don’t have the full context behind what is being said.

...The OP says artifacts are distributed only at night.

What part of reading the OP is rules lawyering?

[MathBlade]

Mod has confirmed that I received the artifact at the correct time, after morning and before afternoon

This is literally impossible per the OP.

[MathBlade]

What information am I trying to get here?

I don’t want to know what the artifact does:

I just want to know if the thing you passed is an artifact or not,

And when you passed it.

That’s it.

[MathBlade]

I received it at the start of Afternoon today.

Upon receipt, a player may choose to interact with one Artifact in their possession per game phase. They may either use it or transfer the selected Artifact to another player rather than using it. This counts as the player's Artifact interaction for the night.

Transfers may only be performed during the Night phase.

If transferred, the recipient will be informed of the Artifact's Power and Negative Effect. They may also use any non-Artifact actions they have from their role, including the factional kill if Mafia. There is a limit of one non-factional kill role action used per player per phase.

Uhm how Spiffeh?

<< this here

This is pretty selective reading. It starts with “upon receipt,” which I won’t go into further since I’ve already revealed enough. In general no, you’re wrong.

Yes, I think you should go further into it.

I do not think this is selective reading here.

Explain it like I am 5 here please.

[MathBlade]

And BM I noted your Miller claim and am just kinda not focused there atm.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think that’s what it says.

I think it says artifacts can only be transferred at night.

It’s a pretty important distinction.

I don’t think artifacts can be passed during the day here.

Can someone please look at this?

I find it odd both Bell and Spiffeh are saying what seems logically impossible/bastard?

Pedit:

I don’t see how this is pointless. This seems like impossible?

[MathBlade]

Other Artifact distribution mechanics may be in play throughout the game.

yea says this right here

I don't even get what you guys are talking about

Those would also have to happen at night right?

Because the OP says that’s the only time artifacts can be passed.

[MathBlade]

I am going to focus on work but this seems off and I would like an explanation that makes sense please when I get off work.

[MathBlade]

Lol. Can we please eliminate math blade.

I would be down for eliminating MathBlade. I think it may flip town but his stubborn refusal to listen to anyone is grating. I want actual discussion, which I turn to everyone else for.

What do you think of Spiffeh?

I want actual discussion too.

Just where scum likely is.

I don’t understand what Pooky and Prism are saying but I will roll with it and save my concerns for post game.

[MathBlade]

You guys are assuming spiffeh got their artifact by transfer, and not by a role or just because a specific artifact was meant to go to a specific place at a specific time

My assumption is got it period.

I am just going to shut up and keep cooking dinner for my roommates tonight.

I do not understand how people are misinterpreting what happened here and continuing to rant about how “only” is “only” will piss people off.

We should still be looking in Titus/Cakez/Dunn if we don’t consider there being a guilty someplace.

Only = only and that is how I read it.

If the mod means “other ways apply” to apply to that the disclaimer wouldn’t be needed in the first place.

If it is how Prism and Pooky are saying it then mods should write better wording next game.

I am too pissed to actually make coherent arguments atm.

[MathBlade]

Required 24 hour content post:

We shouldn’t be looking for who bussed Mastina because there is no guarantee anyone did and the PoE is large
We should be looking in the group who wasn’t on Mastina
Barring scum claims

I still disagree and think it’s Titus Bell Spiffeh but arguing this is antitown and unfun for others so just going to leave this here and make the required 24 hour post unless something pops out at me to tell me otherwise.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Titus

[MathBlade]

VOTE: borkjerfkin

honestly fuck off.

^Going to assume this is out of scum range

Bork can be fairly mean scum. Also yeah, town clearing him for that, from you, given how you disagreed with me on superbowl for similar ethical reasons is odd to me.

@Titus: I still think Spiffeh is town he hasn't done anything that has dissuaded me from that opinion. If he's scum here this is simply his strongest scum game to date in my experience. He didn't seem to have much interest in growing or improving in scum and this is quite a drastic step up.

Literally how I defended Gamma in Boonskiies game almost word for word.

*sigh*

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12527670

Proof

C’mon people this isn’t townBell.

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12527670

Proof

C’mon people this isn’t townBell.

Bell wasn't in that game?

Bell was in the Sequence Hydra with Ircher

[MathBlade]

I would possibly swap Titus with Cakez or Dunn but Bell/Spiffeh are pretty much lock scum to me unless and until Bell flips town.

Which at that point I go “whatever op is meaningless”

[MathBlade]

I would possibly swap Titus with Cakez or Dunn but Bell/Spiffeh are pretty much lock scum to me unless and until Bell flips town.

Which at that point I go “whatever op is meaningless”

This can't be real. Multiple people have provided explanations and since he can't understand them he's just ignoring them and genuinely thinks Spiffeh and I are scum partners and lying together in some kind of elaborate scum gambit.

Like I get that he's been running this too dense to be scum shtick for a while, but this is bordering on satire.

Their explanations I do not understand.
Distribute and transfer are synonyms.

All transfers happen at night = all distributions happen at night.

Their explanation does not make sense.

I am not pushing it out of respect not to turn the game toxic but I cannot agree with an explanation that requires mod lying/incorrect explanation I can’t.

[MathBlade]

Other Artifact distribution mechanics may be in play throughout the game.

this is literally in the rules dude

this means artifacts can be moved at other times for other reasons.

just stop with your mod lies thing

this is a pointless thing for bell/spiff to lie about.

lets just accept this happened.

That’s what I am trying to do is just let you all pretend.

I literally cannot lie and say I agree here.

Artifacts can be distributed through other means. I agree the role is likely real.

If the role does not transfer at night the game is bastard imho.

Distributions and transfers are the same thing.

Unless you explain it in a different way you’re saying the mod can lie which is an invalid argument.

[MathBlade]

So I will go back to my post every 24 hours and just say it’s Bell and Spiffeh.

And if Bell was town he’d just be saying bastard or agreeing with you Pooky.

You wouldn’t need my elimination to prove it.

[MathBlade]

Transferring an artifact FROM YOUR OWN INVENTORY only happens at night.

OTHER DISTRIBUTION MECHANISMS, eg. LLD invention, rolepower creation/targeted assignment, artifact usage that triggers another's creation, etc. are SEPARATE FROM YOUR INVENTORY

Dying inside, I hate mechanics but I don't know why this site seems to struggle with them more than Town of Salem does my god

I understand what you’re arguing.

That’s not what the OP says I can force it if I add a few words though.

Pedit: One of Titus/SirCakez/Dunn

[MathBlade]

Going by this argument you should be happy because you found two scum and once you flip we’ll quickly follow. /: I

I am not happy because this is never how it works.

[MathBlade]

Upon receipt [of an artifact],

a player may choose to interact with one Artifact in their possession per game phase. They may either use it or

transfer the selected Artifact

to another player rather than using it. This counts as the player's Artifact interaction for the night.

Transfers may only be performed during the Night phase.

Contextually, it is EXTREMELY obvious that "transfer" refers to this inventory interaction

Warehouse 13 has never cared about context and everything is extremely literal.
Yes I get that’s what is meant but that is not what is literally written.
That’s how whammies happen on the show

[MathBlade]

The fact you had to change the OP to make your answer work is a problem.

That should not be necessary.

If Bell is town and passed an artifact to Spiffeh during the day I will maintain post game that this game has poorly written imho bastard rules.

Can we just go pretend like you want now?

[MathBlade]

Wait until MathBlade learns I just got transferred/distributed an artifact during the day phase.

So game is bastard and op is meaningless awesome

Back to Cakez and Dunn and Titus PoE

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12527670

Proof

C’mon people this isn’t townBell.

Bell wasn't in that game?

VOTE: Titus

Since apparently my logic on Bell is so crazy no one should buy it Titus doing so is scummy.

[MathBlade]

Sure tell me why you strongly TR Cakeboi

just a reminder that cake is delicious

Just a reminder that Titus is still delicious.

It’s even red. (No I will not go find a red hat gif on lunch break. My spoons for this game is practically idgaf)

[MathBlade]

yeah im with ya Pooky. Cakez is scum.

What if both are delicious?

[MathBlade]

It would explain Titus wanting so desperately to not elim in Cakez/Dunn

If we go with distributions aren’t transfers then Bell is probably town and Spiffeh I am 50/50 on.

I mean it makes sense. Then the other scum would have to likely be on the Mastina wagon somewhere.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Cakez

Okay sheeping the Pooky. He cares more than me so he gets the wim.

[MathBlade]

Bork will you tell me I'm crazy if I tell you that today I did a search for how often you use the word fuck as town v scum because I had a theory and the out of your scum range crew had me thinking my theory was correct?

that, while, uh, not a task i would wish on anybody, is an intellectually honest response
and i'm not surprised you git the answer you got.
even if you hadn't i still feel that nobody who gave that take is trying to do any legitimate meta to get there

this post is now an advertisement for phpbb 3.3 coming soon featuring Sphinx search where you "Probably Won't Crash the Site"® trying to do the things that Tammy just did

I write post scrapers and omg that’s too much work.

I kinda am not sure whether to lock!town Tammy for it or go that it’s a lie for being so out there and LAMISTy.

Gonna go with the first for now.

[MathBlade]

bork is scum
cakez is scum

titus might be the last scum

I don’t think Bork is scum but Cakez and Titus one if not both are by PoE.

[MathBlade]

24 hour post

VOTE: Cakez emphasis
Check Titus or Dunn or me in case Cakez is town.
If you really don’t trust my Pooky read could check Pooky.

[MathBlade]

what do you want to see Bell? I feel like I don't have anything to add here. That's why I'm telling people to make a wagon so we can actually analyze something and pressure someone.

You could just analyze D1 and find scum off Mastina wagon.

[MathBlade]

That also isn’t who is scum that was not on Mastina.

[MathBlade]

Math why are you obsessed with wagonomics

Because of probability/odds.

When I stray from that and use gut my reads go bad.

At least one scum in you/Titus/Dunn is well worth the focus then see who doesn’t want to elim there.

There’s no guarantee someone bussed Mastina and if there are bussers no more than 2 is likely. So best 2/8 odds (1/4) so best to look off wagon. In other words if I grant scenarios most favorable to your look off wagon argument we’d have an equal shot and I don’t see two+ bussers on Mastina.

So at this point it’s between you and Titus and Dunn.

[MathBlade]

Like, here's a fun exercise for the table. Answering publicly is absolutely encouraged.

Who is a player you have changed your mind on, or at least had your view of challenged in a way that made you

actually doubt the read

\, in the last calendar week, and why?

Bell.

I still have gut he is scum with Titus and Cakez but the number of worlds he would be scum is in tiny so best to leave Bell alone.

[MathBlade]

Does any1 have any good reasons for why Cake has to be town here?

"Good" is the tough qualifier here. I liked the way he voted mastina, the way he talked about his claim Day 1, and for questionable meta. This is very weak.

Right now I'm pretty frustrated that everyone seems to be going "Well it's my reads that are right", cross their arms waiting for something to happen, rather than actually being proactive and trying to prove themselves wrong. At least you're asking but the entire town has done literally nothing for the entire day outside of 1/2 isolated sequences. The only reason I'm not naming names and getting specific is that people will just get defensive about how they

totally have

done more than everybody else which is equally useless.

Anyway I'll finish up the Spiffeh/bork ISOs, try to read Dunnstral, and after that I guess read Cakez. Tammy is worth a read but being real there's 0 chance she gets voted today so w/e

To be fair there isn’t much that can prove me wrong.

The odds are scum are in Titus/Dunn/Cakez mathematically.

I don’t particularly care who of which three because it’s almost certain scum are there and Pooky is my top townread and so like I don’t see a reason not to sheep him. The person shading him is in my PoE and the other person shading him Tammy just seems like she has too many townreads problem rather than a genuine scumread.

[MathBlade]

So unless someone explains a D1 narrative where Mastina was bussed and Cakez is town I don’t care.

I think Mastina could be bussed if Cakez is scum but if Cakez is town there’s a tiny AF scum pool.

Elimming Cakez solves that problem of D1.

[MathBlade]

Who is a player you have changed your mind on, or at least had your view of challenged in a way that made you actually doubt the read\, in the last calendar week, and why?

Titus.

I think that a lot of later Titus posts have made me doubt my earlier scumread.
Gutwise, I think a lot of Titus' later posts look town.
3636 to me doesn't seem manipulative and maybe can explain the earlier fixation on math.
3628 looked pretty town - it was a reachout that didn't really serve any interest but to get the game back on track after a misflip.
3545 looked town. BM is a pretty easy target if town; this is null if BM isn't town, but I like the take.

The thing holding me back from this:
The VCA arguments seem to be TMI based on Cakez' alignment.
3457 is the best example of this - all Titus' VCA arguments basically assume the eventuality that Cakez is going to flip town, and I can't see why Titus' would base so many foundational reads on that tenet unless she knew cakez was, in fact, going to flip town.

Titus as scum tends to assume what she wants or what is beneficial to her. That if Titus is scum, may not be TMI.

And I agree. Titus never really considered Cakez scum which is why if Cakez flips scum she’s a likely partner and she’s desperate to escape the VCA she herself made.

Which is why I made her the challenge like literally 1000s of posts ago. I think she as scum bet all her cards on Pooky being wagoned to get some air.

I don’t think she white knights Cakez here unless she thinks she can put the wagon back on me with Bell’s help though. I think in Cakez town Titus scum world, she is either scum with Bell or deliberately playing into Bell’s paranoia of me.

I think also in a Cakez town world we learn ironically enough that scum are in Titus/Dunn (or if you want to you can put me there) but we literally prove the point I am making so like okay?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Cakez

I think this is the play then

Agreed.

I think Titus could be town to be clear. I just think the argument is bad.

I just think Cakez+Titus+Bell is most likely.

Titus can’t attack me or she loses (or worse succeeds and scum claims in the process)
SirCakez can’t attack me because I was off DGB and can’t really refute Pooky not being dead as there is no real argument that I am scum that doesn’t answer it.

So Titus paints me as a not team player for being too narrow despite me following a mafia fundamental you don’t hunt in the bussers after a scum flip without a good reason.

Cakez was buddying me at the start.

Bell likely pushes me because Titus wants me off my game. I just have a hard time seeing Bell town here. Admittedly there’s good points here like Prism said. But if I am right on Titus scum please revisit Bell.

I also think Bell passed Spiffeh a vig so it won’t matter tbh and it’s a protown thing that my slot gets vigged anyway but if not I will be pleasantly surprised.

If not Bell (because the mechanics argument is good) spiffeh’s play around Titus has been horrible.

I think we need a second scum flip in the PoE.

[MathBlade]

ie. If Spiffeh is scum, I fucking tried. Anyone who disagrees with me, your turn to work through his ISO and wall it out.

I think Spiffeh is only scum if Titus is. I wouldn’t make a case until then.

[MathBlade]

Bell can you stop being obsessed with mathblade for a second lol

we are looking for demotivated scum

not hyper, OD'd on Speed, completely insane scum.

I object!

I am OD’d on math.
Ridiculous would be better than insane as shaming mental illness shouldn’t be an attack on someone.
And lastly not scum.

But I mean if you wanna argue I am scum after saving your miselim and forcing a PoE that very likely will net a scum. You can it’s just ridiculous.

[MathBlade]

see even bork knows it

like do you understand

how bad someone has to play

to get nearly modkilled

by like the nicest mod on the site?

you'd have to be really bad

and the only way any1 can be that misguided

is if they are town

because aint nobody with a red role pm can believe that much

in something so stupid

that they nearly get themselves modkilled

like that's just too wild for me lol

I would rather not venture here and will save my venting on this for post game.

Thank you.

[MathBlade]

How did math almost get mod killed for challenging the rules in his scum PT/Whining about them?
At worst we would have proceeded with the game knowing that the game was unintentionally bastard and if anyone wanted to replace out, nobody was stopping them.

He was not shaming mental illness math. /: Accusing someone of being insane is not the same as accusing them of being in psychosis or having a symptom of being delusion or...Well this isn't an important discussion for this game so nevermind.

Can we like not?

I get it.

If you’re town you’re hopelessly tunnelled on me.
If you’re scum you need me gone because my PoE is scum.

Can we like just move on?

I am trying to respect people who say you’re town but you’re really making it hard.

As an Aspie I take rules literally. I really really don’t want to go down here right now but you’re pissing me off.

[MathBlade]

yea when i say crazy/insane/similar terms I mean in terms of the wildness / boldness / absolute recklessness/daring of the play.

I mean it as a term of affection/appreciation/admiration

I am not talking about mental illness I promise.

Thank you.

[MathBlade]

How did math almost get mod killed for challenging the rules in his scum PT/Whining about them?
At worst we would have proceeded with the game knowing that the game was unintentionally bastard and if anyone wanted to replace out, nobody was stopping them.

He was not shaming mental illness math. /: Accusing someone of being insane is not the same as accusing them of being in psychosis or having a symptom of being delusion or...Well this isn't an important discussion for this game so nevermind.

Can we like not?

I get it.

If you’re town you’re hopelessly tunnelled on me.
If you’re scum you need me gone because my PoE is scum.

Can we like just move on?

I am trying to respect people who say you’re town but you’re really making it hard.

As an Aspie I take rules literally. I really really don’t want to go down here right now but you’re pissing me off.

If you could refrain from mixing the game discussion with the non-game discussion. I would appreciate it. I can't engage with this when it's a mixture of personal argument and in game discrediting.

Then argue I am scum for ingame reasons. There’s nothing here that’s OOG. If you feel there is then ignore that.

Or ideally just move the fuck on if you think I am scum and find my non existent buddies.

[MathBlade]

I'm arguing that this game being interrupted is not clearly indicative of your alignment as you are very critical of set ups as scum too based on our previous games together.
I am not arguing that you are scum for it, but I am arguing that you aren't town for it.

Then argue why I am scum or get off the stove.

This game has a limited post count and shading me while saying something is NAI is scummy as fuck.

Either join the Cakez wagon or try to make your own (preferably within Titus/Dunn)

Or make a case on me.

Do something other than just saying I am NAI and bad.

[MathBlade]

If you don't have time to reread, it's okay, just say so, but right now it looks like you just have 0 drive to win or actively solve regardless of what you are atm.

Prism, for you, I'm trying to reread cakez:

The claim stuff is all null. He could have that role reasonably as either alignment.
posts like 3543 are asking questions but they don't seem terribly useful or relevant and they're not set up to go anywhere.
I did like the tone in 3581 and i think he probably realizes he's on the short list of people that would be the target of said wagon.
The posts reading Bell & me seem pretty shallow.
I liked the justification he gave in 3404

Nothing he's done today is really substantive outside a general gung-ho attitude when he is posting, which I don't think is really good for a D3 townread.

Mostly I also don't think they're scum together still. Cakez has been seemingly itchy to get at Titus since the beginning of the day and it seems like another bus today is probably catastrophic for that team.

Or you can accept the fact that this is a forced push. Titus kept trying to keep me to push anyone on Mastina. She didn’t like I wouldn’t. Cakez didn’t try to push in the PoE.

This post is scummy AF Bork.

[MathBlade]

Hi Tammy! Are you town too?

Where’s Titus I’ve been good at reading her lately

Ninja-

THE MOUSE WIZARD IS GOOD

What’s the deal about Pooky and Cakez? Short version I’m eating McDonald’s and drinking a Paloma

Ninja-
Hi Pooky

yeah

VOTE: notscience

i think i'd rather do this

Why?

You said my logic was sound on elimming in Cakez/Titus/Dunn.
Your townreads want Cakez.

Why Not Science over someone in the PoE?

Do you think SirCakez was town and an all town counter wagon formed against him?

[MathBlade]

There are people here who have spent that past week saying they should read into me more and just haven't and continue to call me scum

Name names. Push these players. My being one of them after I got partway through Spiffeh is no surprise.

I am sick of you doing nothing the entire game then crying when you get scumread. If your entire ability to win games as scum requires you to 0 effort and give only the most baselevel reasoning as town, something is wrong with your playstyle.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I like this vote even if it isn’t on Cakez.

Definitely better than a not science vote.

Not science could be scum, don’t get me wrong some of Grey ICE’s posts are bad and I would hammer to prevent a no elim but a not science wagon is literally push a lurker to avoid the PoE again.

It’s following the same “vibes” as DGB wagon.

[MathBlade]

Gobble gobble gobble.

Takes scum elims are fun.

Baaaah I am a good sheep.

[MathBlade]

So just to be clear Bork you’re voting me because I’d be doing more if I’d read the game to catch up?

Because I really haven’t read that much. I read page one and posts since my replace in.

But anyways, excuses. I’m going to try to read at least day one tomorrow (something something proven track record of not being super available sundays something)

I kinda like Dunn’s read shift on me even if I don’t agree with borks reasoning for the read.

a not science wagon is literally push a lurker to avoid the PoE again.

I’ve been here for 24 hours and asleep or working for 22 of them

I am literally saying that your wagon is bad and you’re ?

[MathBlade]

I am mostly caught up

Not much to say other than not thrilled with notty's entrance

I was hoping for a little more from your big catchup.

Not science could be scum, don’t get me wrong some of Grey ICE’s posts are bad and I would hammer to prevent a no elim but a not science wagon is literally push a lurker to avoid the PoE again.

It wouldn't be a lurker/vibes wagon though because as some have noted notsci's entrance was pretty bad.

i've played with bork twice now.

once in tenet and once in 2181

this is much closer to the 2181 version of bork,

he feels like a wallflower; incredibly passive, just gliding with the flow - letting the game state push his vote around as if he does not really care much about the flip.

in Tenet Bork was very opinionated and made strong sharp pushes that were good and had purpose and force of belief behind them. I just don't see that here.

I agree with this

Cakez + Bork is looking really good.
Votes Prism despite not sci being the other wagon
I like not sci as buddy if and only if Cakez + Bork.

[MathBlade]

Afternoon Vote Count 3.05

Afternoon 2 will end in (expired on 2021-03-24 18:37:50)

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to Bronze

Titus (1): SirCakez
borkjerfkin (1): Spiffeh
SirCakez (4): PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade, Battle Mage, Bell
notscience (2): borkjerfkin, Dunnstral
Dunnstral (1): Prism

Not voting (3): Tammy, Titus, notscience

Mod notes:
25/60 pages used


This will be a pagetop when I remove my earlier one, rules are for other backup mods!

Imagine a why the hell you lying gif here.

Gotta work now.

[MathBlade]

Hey notscience I am not asking to be a dick but I am asking to see how through your read is:

What do you think Cakez’s claim was and Titus’s claim was if any?

[MathBlade]

I'm voting in Cakez/Titus/Dunn today. Am going to read Cakez when I get home but generally I'm okay with it.

Yay!

Woo hoo!

Thank you!

*does a little jig*

[MathBlade]

Dunn's s Day 1 was steaming hot trash from reading last night btw but the low content gives me little optimism and I'm fine going with someone else/on a heavily contested slot

It’s a PoE. Whether you’re set on Cakez,Cakez+Bork,Titus + the mod, idgaf long as you’re there that there’s at least a scum in those three it’s all worth it.

Because then if Cakez flips red and then Dunn is town it says a lot about you and maybe townLock is wrong.
If Cakez is red and Dunn is red >> You’re in the same dilemma I was D1.
If Cakez is town and Dunn is red >> boy howdy can Prism be any more lock town
If Cakez is town and Dunn is town >> Elim Titus with the fire of 1000 suns

(Those are in order of probability I think)

[MathBlade]

(I double checked his d1 action after the claim he never acted)

I think it’s a believable claim I could see in the game as either alignment but think the quiet target is meh. Yeah they were a nonentity all of day one but like... why? It’s a slot getting replaced if scum have the ability to dole them out why would they put him on quiet? Iirc he didn’t say anything about not having an artifact either.

I basically just think it’s a really low info target claim and done on purpose.

As for Titus’s I kinda hit on it but I hate that she threw in the towel like that. I know she’s going through it so I’m taking it with a grain of salt but I have an immense amount of respect for Titus and I just... struggle to reconcile town her throwing her hands up this easy.

Ninja-
I disagree I had no problems with Dunn’s day one. It isn’t as active as he’s been in other recent games, yes, but there’s a plethora of explanations for it. He’s definitely my last choice of your pool.

You can be town for now.

Cakez Bork Titus? *spitballing*

Order of strength.

[MathBlade]

Cake flips red and the next elim down the line is Borky

Bahhhh yess sir yes sir three baaaaahhh full.

[MathBlade]

If Cakez is red Titus is scum or their puppet with how hard she pushed “look on the Mastina wagon”. I kinda wanna say town because the last few games she’s been in she’s kinda been terrible

[MathBlade]

Tempted to just lol hammer so I don't have to catch up until I hopefully have time but I am not going to contribute to Math's gamethrow and Pooky's scuminess.

How exactly is having a PoE throwing?
And how is Pooky being scum by playing?

C’mon Titus.

[MathBlade]

Tempted to just lol hammer so I don't have to catch up until I hopefully have time but I am not going to contribute to Math's gamethrow and Pooky's scuminess.

How exactly is having a PoE throwing?
And how is Pooky being scum by playing?

C’mon Titus.

I have a PoE too.
Your PoE is wrong and you killed all other scumhunting. That's a large through. In fact, it's the largest because you killed the ability for town to correct itself.

Pooky is scum because he's coasting, taking no responsibility and Cakez and Dunn are town.

How exactly is Pooky not taking responsibility?

Pretty sure I am being a good little sheep. If anyone is “avoiding responsibility” it’s me because I am blatantly sheeping Pooky because I think he is locktown and better than me at reads. How does pushing Cakez + Bork avoid responsibility?

You’ve said several times masons are your weakness. You’re being really bad here Titus. Pooky is awesome and sheeping can be fun

Donuts for breakfast, turn Pooky into a double voter by 8, sounds like a good day.

[MathBlade]

I don't really scumread you anymore.

I think this game is ~annoying~. Mainly mathblade saying some variation of "it's cakez/Titus/Dunn", I think almost 200 times?

Correction: PoE at least one scum 200 times. Apparently I have to keep repeating myself because people don’t get it. This group has to contain at least one scum or Mastina counter wagon all town.

[MathBlade]

There is no tangible bork towncase oh boy are you about to be disappointed. He lightly defended the scum slot and isn't qualitatively one dimensional so it's not so easy. Usage was null but I did like the Farnsworth claim.

The town case is he reached out his little fins and gently touched them to the valves of my heart. And then he said "they're not fins there's a k there in the name" but I said "shhh, it's okay, don't speak"

I don't know what fantasy world Titus is living in where I am "coasting" by pushing for the elimination of the people I believe to be scum but ok sure Titus.

the way bork has interacted with Cakey indicates they are scum together.

Titus is tunnel stuck on you as scum. There not much that will change it until scum decide to shoot you or me. I guess they won’t shoot you or me since Titus is pushing you so win win masons live?

[MathBlade]

Afternoon Vote Count 3.06

Afternoon 2 will end in (expired on 2021-03-24 18:37:50)

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to Bronze

borkjerfkin (1): Spiffeh
SirCakez (6): PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade, Battle Mage, Bell, notscience, Dunnstral
notscience (2): borkjerfkin, Titus
Dunnstral (2): Prism, SirCakez

Not voting (1): Tammy

Mod notes:
26/60 pages used

Cakez is not scum based on the votes:
Pooky is town
I am town
Battle Mage maaaaybe scum if like a ton of other people don’t work
Bell I am told to have blinders on and not scumread so town
Dunn is in the PoE but the least likely

Who exactly is scum here besides Pooky?
This wagon seems pure AF assuming no Bell scum.

[MathBlade]

PURE AS FRESHLY FALLEN SNOW ON A WINTERS EVE


ps notty/bork are the last 2 bad guys probly

If Cakez flips red and you die, you have my word I will tunnel Bork.

[MathBlade]

lol maybe notty is town and titus really is the last scum

:3

That’s my thoughts but I kinda wanna see Cakez flip red first.

If Cakez doesn’t flip red then a hard look at Titus/Dunn is required.

I just really don’t think I can be wrong on you mason.

Like that would be just so weird with all the crumbs.

[MathBlade]

Like my absolute paranoia theory is Titus Bell Bork but since Bork has to be town Cakez is almost certainly scum here

[MathBlade]

why not just vote Mastina there if town. No one would complain

i mean your point boils down to "voted elsewhere when could've voted flipped scum" which I mean sure I guess but how does that not apply to everyone off the mastina wagon?

It’s different when it’s you V the other person.

If you think the other person even remotely has a shot at being scum you vote them. Cakez said Mastina was scummy but then never wanted her except “I guess this is what we are doing”. (Paraphrase)

[MathBlade]

oh snap he did push titus too

i guess she really is town if he flips red here

in which case

titus what are you doing ?

I dunno.

If Cakez flips red we might have to policy her at some point as scum could still be on Cakez as it would be split but not required. So my PoE rule wouldn’t be nearly as strong. I just sorta think I am stuck between so bad that someone would be coaching her if she’s scum.

This just feels weird and I say punt on Titus until we figure out what is going on.

If Cakez is town though I think it makes a good case for Titus scum but I think Cakez town is pretty marginal

[MathBlade]

i'm dead at the end of N4 unless cured

I think this is like not a problem as you're in the PoE. Wanna see what Pooky wants since he's still pretty much a double voter here IMHO.

Tbh Dunn I kinda glazed over your wall and I think both Spiffeh and Titus and Bork are good wagons today.

I'm kinda like exhausted because reasons so I'm like whatever Pooky wants Pooky gets.

Titus -- If you're town get your shit in gear please <3 I say that lovingly because if you argue against the majority of the block considering your record it's quite possible you're scum here. But the only thing that says otherwise is gut and by pretty much every metric I should elim you.

[MathBlade]

Spiffeh almost certainly is the poisoner based off the interactions with Bell. It's fine.

I don't feel great today but I'll have something useful to claim w/ the artifact later, want to wait

My working assumption is scum had a killing artifact N1 and used to double it.

That was my thoughts but I was crazy *frowns and pouts*

Man I miss a Pooky I wanna sheep and no effort.

[MathBlade]

Spiffeh almost certainly is the poisoner based off the interactions with Bell. It's fine.

I don't feel great today but I'll have something useful to claim w/ the artifact later, want to wait

My working assumption is scum had a killing artifact N1 and used to double it.

Oh. Wait.

The artifact spiffeh received was the poison?

That changes things, since it was handed to him by town. That also explains how scum knew he was the mason, by the way.

I still think Pooky's the mason. Bell just had a role that allowed it.

[MathBlade]

I still think Pooky's the mason. Bell just had a role that allowed it.

what

I think Bell's role is loud/mod announcing/whatever at the start of the game or received an artifact through distribution.
I still think Pooky is a mason.

Pedit: Bell's dead? I didn't see a flip?

[MathBlade]

The day dawned with a slow lightening of the sky. Overcast and gloomy, a stiff breeze woke the sleeping crowd. Well, those still able to awaken.

Another morning, another statue; this one positioned next to Abigail Chow. "Who would hurt her?" "She made the best cookies!" "How can you think of cookies at a time like this?!?"

Trailer loped up to the diminished (and possibly famished) crowd with a doggy grin stretched wide around a golden...stick? When one of the people tried to grab it to play a game of fetch, Trailer growled lightly and galumped off several yards. He quickly dug a shallow hole and partially buried the stick, some gold still glinting through the dirt. Then he barked, a clear order. No one was getting this stick until an agreement was reached for the recipient.

Hopefully there would still be time for other play with Trailer. Fetch, roll over, shake. Maybe someone would even play dead before the sun set.

Bell, Leena, aligned with Town,

Town mason

, in possession of the

Freezing Snowglobe

, has been Bronzed!

Nope I'm just dumb.

Damn.

[MathBlade]

I am responsible for poisoning bork, I used the artifact Bell passed me per his instructions. I chose bork because I'm scum reading him and townreading Mathblade.

kinda wanna flip math now

Wtf? I literally am voting scum my entire ISO and you wanna wagon me because?

I demand Sircakez almost all game and you want me because?

Pedit I did, I just didn't see it. The text blurred

[MathBlade]

We should be eliminating Spiffeh today.

it's possible that you were right initially - spiffeh is overzealous town that made a judgment call based on his personal reads
but if math is scum, well, that changes a lot and gives potential scum motivation for it

.....

I really really should just trust Pooky. Kinda wondering if this poison is even real and if it's Spiffeh+Bork?

[MathBlade]

I'm actually going to save us all the time and the rabbit hole.

I have a mechanical clear on Spiffeh, scarf was a PT cop w/ negative effect that I am now in a PT by myself.

Thanks for the rabbit hole help.

So Bork will be dead likely so if he's scum Pooky then who with? Titus is a good bet for scum with Bork.

[MathBlade]

Technically Prism + Spiffeh is logically possible but there's not enough alcohol in my fridge for that lmao.

[MathBlade]

So Bork will be dead likely so if he's scum Pooky then who with? Titus is a good bet for scum with Bork.

nah Titus is town cuz Cakez wanted her dead on D1 I think?

Lemme double check. But if she is BM might be good. I just really wish I was poisoned instead of Bork. :/

[MathBlade]

VOTE: spiffeh

sigh

Why are you voting for lock!town? Are you trying to die?

If we believe the poison is real we should be elimming outside of Bork and let the poison take him.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Spiffeh

I should quit coding and posting and Critical Role ing.

[MathBlade]

He only had 3 votes before and people weren't voting him

cakez had 4 votes on him
notty had 3 votes on him

nobody else had more than 1

what was he going to do lol?

p sure cakez had like given up the ghost at this point and said in the scum PT to just bus him out of the game

Then the nervousness of the wagon would be town, but I think he just more didn't have an idea. It was kinda a similar response in Boonskiies before I replaced in and we tried really off the wall stuff.

Pedit VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

I think Pooky.

VOTE: Pooky

[MathBlade]

The only artifact I used is inability to read flips (I have not used an artifact this is sarcastic).

[MathBlade]

Sorry I didn’t see Prism’s post my bad sorry.

[MathBlade]

(Keep in mind Tammy's PT becomes public so we will 100% get her results)

Yup.

Still haven’t used an artifact.

Still town.

Nothing changes.

[MathBlade]

Yeah I don't really care about an order as long as everyone claims whether they used an artifact or not but here you go:
notscience
Battle Mage
borkjerfkin
Titus
Dunnstral
Mathblade
Prism
Pooky

Please claim whether you have used an artifact(s) and if so what did it do etc. TIA

Rinse wash repeat no artifact never used.

[MathBlade]

Final Afternoon Vote Count

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (1): quiet
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade
mastina (9--BRONZED): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell, Sangres, Spiffeh

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 83/85 pages used (switching to post count here: 2080/2125 posts)

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening
LLD is V/LA.

Flip incoming

Not voting is 0.

By VCA (ignoring play/mechanics) I really should be going after Prism/Spiffeh or notty/Spiffeh. I just can’t buy that either of those are any sort of valid when if Bork is town, scum Spiffeh would poison me.

Bell Sangres and Spiffeh are all lock town.
Titus being on Cakez is a good look for her unless she was trying to no elim it. She’s not entirely out of the elimination pool but this looks better combined with her VCA suggesting BM.

It kinda irks me that three scum would have to be on Mastina when her wagon was second though IIRC. Will have to double check. Titus just doesn’t sit right with me play wise and VCA wise.

I kinda think elim Battle Mage is the right play strategically but I think Battle Mage flips town and if I had a vig or poison I vig or poison Titus.

I am trying to make three scum on Mastina work and I am having a lot of trouble doing so without one of the core block in Prism/Tammy/Grey(notty) being scum.

The most likely of those would be Notty if my memory serves and the wagon was second and it would have been a sacrifice goon play. The way town ended on Mastina versus the PR doesn’t suggest intent though.

These wagons don’t make sense.

[MathBlade]

To be fair I think Titus’s play is a lot better today I just am having trouble sorting her still considering the D1/D2/D3 play.

[MathBlade]

What’s even more troubling is that scum in the PoE aren’t pushing like anyone.

We need to have those in the PoE drive so we can see who they want elimmed imho.

[MathBlade]

I think there's a good chance Battle Mage and Bork are the last two baddies.

I am getting the same feeling I got in Draft Mafia Pooky.

This feels too easy.

[MathBlade]

I think a major annoyance here is it's ambiguous in interpreting how a lot of slots voted now that it's S/S. For example, even though Math is, well, math, he probably values the qualitative play of Mastina over the mechanical power Cakez had. BM/bork could go either way. I probably would have just been annoyed at both of them, shoved mastina harder than I actually did, and then taken up the banner for Cakez the rest of the game calling to the heavens obvtown for scum counterwagon reasons.

Tammy came out better for the CC+wanting to swap over to Cakez and made a big baller move if she's scum, especially since she'd risk running into a REAL town artifact usage detector. Arguably that would set Cakez up well but that plan has disaster written all over it and I strongly doubt she's scum.

The only person voting neither wagon flipped town. Dunnstral wagon is our best clue, but Spiffeh's town. Titus jumped on only after Spiffeh specifically requested her to so ? The only other people on it were BM/Math. 3 people, hypothetically 2 can be scum, but only 1 is more likely, and 0 is possible though it'd be shocking.

The scumflip definitely helped me out because I was always working under the framework that he was probably town, even though I rationally knew he could be scum that wasn't really my framework for the game. Watching him flip town would have just been super annoying/disappointing, because that was always what I was working with anyway.

I agree with 90% of this besides the stuff about my scum meta but hey right conclusion so yay!

The issue I am having is SirCakez flipped Mafia Detector/Thief.

We don’t know what he could detect or what he could steal.

Cakez knew he didn’t look good. If I am scum!Cakez on D3/N3 I steal something.

[MathBlade]

Hey Prism

You said your thing is a PT cop right?

And your negative consequence? PT by yourself right?

Is there anything else hidden? Simple yes/no is fine. I don’t want to know what.

But see if your PT cop was a ton of innos, why didn’t scum steal from you or seemingly anyone else?

[MathBlade]

Correct, there is nothing else to the scarf. Power returns whether or not target has had access to a non-notes PT at any point in the game, negative effect is PT containing only myself for the rest of the game. The question I asked the mod yesterday was about resolution order for another PT cop/me being put in the PT, received answer that a samenight investigation on me would return a "Yes", and so claimed it then.

It is unclear when Cakez's theft would resolve but given that he was voted out the same day I got the scarf, I think it's very obvious why it did not get stolen lol

Why do you think being in a PT by yourself is a negative consequence?

[MathBlade]

Yeah something doesn’t make sense I am just not sure what.

Is it possible scum don’t have a PT?

Just spitballing ideas

Not sure what mechanically scum are doing.

[MathBlade]

@Math- IME that silence takes a huge chunk of scum power. I also feel like it seems like town is super weak even with the artifact a day thing, so it's probably a pretty weak scumteam.

I've been thinking about the VCA. Obviously I wasn't here at gamestart, but we do have two people (if im speaking incorrectly math pls correct ty) who are known for doing VCA. Do we think there would have been measures in place to counteract this down the line? iirc titus said somewhere (and I could be wrong but this has been playing in my mind while thinking about this at work) that she cant just lie about vca as scum- she has to follow whats actually there.

Maybe that's not really a cohesive thought but I figured it might be a good springboard for someone else.

I do VCA sure, but Titus and I analyze it differently.
I also think that Titus when town tends to be more transparent with it and I can follow her logic. That’s why her saying Cakez has to be town so bad I have a hard time jiving with her town. Like gutwise she probably is but whatever her alignment town or scum she’s capable of better so I am hoping that if she’s town I inspire her.

I don’t generally have a meta of how or when I do it, I generally do after a trigger of some kind but that’s broad. I don’t have a hard rule like after a scum flip.

If Titus disagrees with likely probabilities I would go for a policy but considering her and she never lies about RL she could just be clouded. Her VCA is something she can’t moonlogic as scum.

To be fair it is something I can moonlogic and sound convincing as scum but I am not scum.

I would say I don’t think the scum team is weak.
Assuming two masons and a one shot bodyguard scum were smart. They didn’t go for the LLD mason claim. They instead went for one or more of Sangres/KTT.

I have a hard time believing that scum would have an almost pure vanilla setup vs what could become a trio of unelimmables if mass claim D1.

There has to be something missing.

[MathBlade]

I've also been looking at the last two votecounts on Dunn's Cobra Kai wall. Even though it might be a bit counterintuitive given my last post I still think we might as well look down the avenue and see if it makes sense of things.

I was in particular looking at the mastina wagon in both. Obviously this only applies to me bc I'm the only one who *knows* I'm town, but the all town start to the wagon is interesting. I'm assuming Prism is town for reasons I've already said. I also like their play today. So it's 4 green.

Then on the secnd one, we lose Bell but gain Tammy. I'm going to just assume Tammy is town for play+being silenced. That leaves BM as the odd person out, around the point where bus votes are expected. So that would make sense given his play at EOD yesterday. But meh.

I wish Tammy were here.

Like I said, I think today we end up elimming Battle Mage after the day phase
One of three things happens
A> My D1 gut was right Battle mage was scum and we celebrate and I had good reads.
B> My current gut is right and while elimming BM is the smart move, BM flips town.
C> We do not elim Battle Mage

A means a 1 v a billion so meh worry about that later if every. Just turns into auto pilot among us.
C means need to reevaluate based on who the elim is
B> means one of two things
B1> Either the narrow pool off the top of my head
Of Notty/Bork/Titus contains two scum (remember BM flip town world)
B2> One or more of the lock town/high prob town is scum.

[MathBlade]

I dunno. I have a serious first world problem with being a universal townread literally every single game regardless of alignment, and I'm always annoying about making people justify it. Sometimes it pays off, though.

I wouldn’t say you’re a townread.
It’s more a strategy thing here.
You’re more probably town and you claimed an inno.
If Spiffeh is scum and not traitor you’re fucked. That’s the entire team because 4 in the OP.
So if I assume you’re scum, Spiffeh probably isn’t.

Combine that with likely BM elim today
Bork in theory dies of Poison.

Notty / Titus would be the only ones left in the scum PoE.

So then if Spiffeh can he poisons Notty or Titus tonight and we elim the other.

Then it becomes a smorgasbord of no where for scum to hide.

And even if I am wrong and there is a deep wolf then we can learn it from the play and how people react to the dichotomy.

Titus hated what I put her in when I mistakenly said no to Pooky thinking mason (and if he is a third mason I want brownie points later and please don’t chase that) Whatever her alignment she hated that fork.

This is just a bigger fork.

If both scum aren’t there hopefully we have enough to figure out which townread is wrong.

Me being paranoid is just insurance.

[MathBlade]

@Math- IME that silence takes a huge chunk of scum power. I also feel like it seems like town is super weak even with the artifact a day thing, so it's probably a pretty weak scumteam.

I've been thinking about the VCA. Obviously I wasn't here at gamestart, but we do have two people (if im speaking incorrectly math pls correct ty) who are known for doing VCA. Do we think there would have been measures in place to counteract this down the line? iirc titus said somewhere (and I could be wrong but this has been playing in my mind while thinking about this at work) that she cant just lie about vca as scum- she has to follow whats actually there.

Maybe that's not really a cohesive thought but I figured it might be a good springboard for someone else.

And furthermore we don’t know that the silence was done by scum.

I kinda wanna see who Tammy votes.

I find it odd that scum chose to silence her. This would be either a role or an artifact. Hell maybe even Tammy used an artifact. It’s unknown how or why she was silenced but I think theorizing scum did it without proof, similar to the two night kills one must be a vig is incorrect.

We have seen no further evidence of a vig and no one claimed it.

So this leads me to believe two scum kills or a town artifact not a traditional odd/even/conditional vig

[MathBlade]

This type of play I think was meant to obvTown SirCakez by dialing wagons.

I think Mastina was meant to die and then not have influence to hit Cakez.

Titus pushed Pooky but didn’t expect Pooky and I to push back on Cakez fits.

Like Prism + Titus fits by play I just don’t think it’s the smart answer I think it’s a gut paranoia answer.

Either that or Notty/Bork scum + a town read.

It could be Bork and Titus. But I don’t think Titus pushes that heavy on Cakez defense there.

I do not think BM is scum but I think we have to elim him at some point.

[MathBlade]

I mean if we are right and scum are in the narrow PoE we will win because Spiffeh poison and then elim then just let the bodies hit the floor.
If we are wrong though then we have to look at who is scum in townreads and I am probably dead for moonlogicking.

[MathBlade]

I wish I had an answer prism.

Tammy asked me a similar question about why I’m not paranoid of her yesterday. And like, all I can really say here is just “gut”. It’s how the game makes sense to me. It is different than 2181 yes. But I also don’t think I ever really strong townread you there?

So like, I guess this is a nonanswer and I’ll try to figure out how to explain it tomorrow better. I think part was you giving Bork the artifact to go along with me not townreading Bork, but that is just me thinking like five steps ahead because that’s never bit me in the ass before

I do sympathize with not liking being the universal townread. I used to love it. Now I feel like it hurts my reads if I’m one of them. It’s an adjustment not trying to just vault myself up to the top of the list but like... i want to eventually win paragon or something. (like idk why I just wanna get good)and I feel like if I focus on obvtowning and not catching scum it’s futile.

@math- regarding Tammy, I think it’s safe to assume it’s a scum action. What motive does town have to silence Tammy? I’m also on the same page of the PoE as you though obviously I have Titus in mind

You also realize Spiffehs poison was an artifact right

Derp I keep forgetting artifacts are one shot.

And yeah if it was a conscious choice probably scum.

However it could be an artifact downside.

We just don’t know. If it’s a town/self trigger artifact that Tammy fired she will explain EOD. Which makes sense if the artifact is the one Prism linked.

I think scum would have gone for a high posting target read like Pooky. He was a driving force on the Cakez wagon.

There’s nothing in Tammy’s ISO that says “shut me up” that I can see.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Pooky

I am still not sure if this is a smart choice but it seems I am outvoted here.

Also, Spiffeh isn't lock clear, just highly likely clear.

Spiffeh is lock clear unless Prism flips scum or traitor.

Spiffeh is a kinda “not gonna care”

Traitor as mentioned before is unlikely due to the mafia sample OP.

So there isn’t really a world I consider Spiffeh without a Prism red flip or elo.

Do you think Bork is scum or town?

[MathBlade]

Over the course of Day 3 and Night 3, Bell targeted Spiffeh.

Prism I think Bell meant this maybe?

[MathBlade]

Wait, does that mean this was also just flavor and not anything mechanical? WHAT LMAO

With minimal coaxing, Trailer is convinced to sniff an outstretched hand and hardly notices when his scarf is removed. He is then promptly distracted by a thirteen-lined ground squirrel and gives chase. Would that the non-metallized people could find their attention drawn away from their grisly task so easily...

Spoiler: What the fuck

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.

Admittedly I was flipping the fuck about because I was the thirteenth player on the player list and Bell kept insisting incorrectly I was scum.

Combined with Bell claiming something that I thought impossible/poor word choice

I think I went wtf overboard earlier and got stressed and I am sorry.

I still think certain things are bad explanations but not bastard.

[MathBlade]

Maybe but start of morning 4 is very different than after morning 3.

I mean whatever it was we're not finding out now/it's not important I guess but wack

Yeah, it’s whack.

Kinda don’t wanna rehash that.

Who do you think is scum if Bork is?
Who do you think is scum if Bork isn’t?

[MathBlade]

Interesting:

Why do you have me as likely scum despite pushing Cakez as scum for three days straight and on D1 saying I scumread Cakez and Mastina on d1 and was just picking one?

How does that get me on the same level as Not Science?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: bork

Tammy this vote seems useless as Bork should be poisoned by Spiffeh.

If you’re saying you think Bork is scum but no mechanic reason vote Bork again once but then vote someone who could be scum with Bork
If you think Bork is scum but can evade the poison or other mechanics shenanigans vote Bork Twice

[MathBlade]

Tammy may only post votes in the game thread during Day 4. She remains a valid vote target for both the Morning and Afternoon votes. She may not use Day-activated Artifacts. She has been given a PT to record her commentary in during Day 4, and that PT will be made public and locked at the end of Day 4.

It says here that Tammy may only post votes.
I see no reason she can’t vote in response to what we ask her or we come up with a code to help her communicate and we stick to it.
She could even vote for dead people or people not playing the game to form sentences.

Like if she wants to vote yes.
She could just VOTE: whatever she wants to say then follow it with an VOTE: unvote

Then all communication would be votes?

Or is that just me being too literal?

Might want to ask the mod Tammy.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Tammy says something cool and awesome and amazing

VOTE: Unvote

Or is this just me being bad?

[MathBlade]

You're right, though I suspect Penguin might insert the qualifier "valid" for votes. How extensive our messaging system should be from there is probably going to be left up to us, in thatdivising workarounds/playing an extensive game of 20 Questions is sufficiently inhibiting that it's not worth cracking down on.

I agree it’s not worth nitpicking.

If Tammy can do that she would likely do so in her next post.
And if not then I/we have a puzzle to solve so Tammy can play and keep interest.

[MathBlade]

This is going to sound kinda sad but I think Titus is scum I just can’t bring myself to vote her as I am her sister and know she is going through shit.

If someone does a wagon on her I would join
As Notty+Bork or Bork + Titus really does make the most sense.

I just feel it’s too easy so if I am wrong somewhere it seems Prism would be the scum set to go deep.
Prism never once freaked out about sending Trident to Bork yet scumreading Bork.

We have no accountability on if Bork has it.

Like I only mention this now because two masons have died so a third would likely not be speaking with anyone but it’s off.

So I think if there has to be scum in the town block it was a ploy from Mastina to get Prism townread.

I just hate my paranoia.

[MathBlade]

This is going to sound kinda sad but I think Titus is scum I just can’t bring myself to vote her as I am her sister and know she is going through shit.

If someone does a wagon on her I would join
As Notty+Bork or Bork + Titus really does make the most sense.

I just feel it’s too easy so if I am wrong somewhere it seems Prism would be the scum set to go deep.
Prism never once freaked out about sending Trident to Bork yet scumreading Bork.

We have no accountability on if Bork has it.

Like I only mention this now because two masons have died so a third would likely not be speaking with anyone but it’s off.

So I think if there has to be scum in the town block it was a ploy from Mastina to get Prism townread.

I just hate my paranoia.

I am her brother and she is my sister

Bad me misgendering myself as I merged words.

[MathBlade]

Titus why aren’t you voting or pushing BM?
Or telling me my theory on Prism is good or bad?
Or well anything?

[MathBlade]

Same goes with Bork and Notty.
Bork’s supposed last day and he’s pretty quiet.
This is wrong.

[MathBlade]

Titus is town though

Cakez wanted her dead on D1 and Cakez apparently swore a vow of no-bussing at some point loolololol

I dunno about the no bussing thing.
In Boonskiies he was like “we gotta bus gamma” a lot.

I hope you’re right and Titus is town and/or all the scum are in that tiny PoE.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Not Science

I am down for this. I kinda don’t think scum just randomly claim Miller.

[MathBlade]

i want BM's flavor claim because if it makes 0 sense I would like to kill him

Fair.

[MathBlade]

I don’t have a trajectory.

I have a PoE and am looking at who I believe would be scum with Bork and I don’t think it would be BM. I also don’t think BM claims Miller there. So it’s more gut and whatever.

[MathBlade]

weekend VLA - back Sunday night/Monday morning

VLA is over.
Battle Mage has 24 hours to answer I will vote and tunnel him.

[MathBlade]

Titus: did you get any notice this morning?

what's the deal with this btw

I figured scum wifom.

Bork isn’t posting despite him supposedly dying tonight.

It could mean Titus scum or Titus town but I think until and unless Bork cares I don’t.

[MathBlade]

^ ie. What will you flip?

Character+role title

tbh I don't think any of this helps, so it feels like a pointless discussion - I'd rather people actually spent time either trying to work out my alignment based on my play, or just elim me, rather than thinking the game is going to be broken by flavour or some outlandish claim. I'm Artie Nielson.

This does make sense for a Miller.

Artie was arrested and had many ties that could be spun that way.

I do agree Bork is likely scum but I think he just dies.

Unfortunately this does not help my Prism paranoia.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

I will hammer whoever.

If it’s BM sweet we win.

I kinda think it’s Prism Bork. I just can’t shake it but it’s antitown to vote Prism here so I am stuck.

[MathBlade]

Can someone explain why they’re townreading Prism besides the weird power interactions?

[MathBlade]

So you’re saying you don’t want to out negative abilities that exist in order to protect a flavor claim which is almost always NAI?

Have you read the sample PMs?

Not mechanically discussing the artifact, take it up with bork.

So you’re saying you don’t want to out negative abilities that exist in order to protect a flavor claim which is almost always NAI?

Have you read the sample PMs?

Not mechanically discussing the artifact, take it up with bork.

Reread them and I fail to see anything special.

If flavor is alignment indicative then scum would receive fake claims.
If flavor is not alignment indicative then why does this matter?

I just don’t see what you’re doing here.

See here’s the issue I have.

It’s confirmed scum have fake claims.

Assuming Bork is guilty then I think my initial FoS was correct.

Prism was early on Mastina and fits for VCA.

It could have easily been what was passed to Bork for N0.

We know that depending upon what artifacts Bork does or doesn’t flip with we know whether or not what Prism passed Bork has or not.

If Bork doesn’t flip with it then either Prism has it and lied or scum passed it on again (why useless artifact).

[MathBlade]

Can someone explain why they’re townreading Prism besides the weird power interactions?

mastina cased him

So? Both wagons were scum.

Distancing is a thing.

Mastina spent more time on Prism than Cakez.

[MathBlade]

If Bork doesn’t flip with it then either Prism has it and lied or scum passed it on again (why useless artifact).

??? or he used it lmao

Except the masons were shot and didn’t complain about it being used?

And it doesn’t say if artifacts aren’t listed if they are used?
It could flip artifact blah blah used.

[MathBlade]

um unless u think mastinas plan was flip scum cake d1 and then scum prism d2 ?

No. I think her plan was bad bus for cred later if Prism is scum.

She and I have talked scum games a lot because when she mods I draw scum is a thing.

So she knows that’s a good plan when scum are in trouble and you want to die.

[MathBlade]

The day dawned with a slow lightening of the sky. Overcast and gloomy, a stiff breeze woke the sleeping crowd. Well, those still able to awaken.

Another morning, another statue; this one positioned next to Abigail Chow. "Who would hurt her?" "She made the best cookies!" "How can you think of cookies at a time like this?!?"

Trailer loped up to the diminished (and possibly famished) crowd with a doggy grin stretched wide around a golden...stick? When one of the people tried to grab it to play a game of fetch, Trailer growled lightly and galumped off several yards. He quickly dug a shallow hole and partially buried the stick, some gold still glinting through the dirt. Then he barked, a clear order. No one was getting this stick until an agreement was reached for the recipient.

Hopefully there would still be time for other play with Trailer. Fetch, roll over, shake. Maybe someone would even play dead before the sun set.

Bell, Leena, aligned with Town,

Town Mason

, in possession of the

Freezing Snowglobe

, has been Bronzed!

Bell flipped in possession of the freezing snow globe which I am guessing Poisoned Bork.

[MathBlade]

Yeah so Bork could pass it on as a valid way not to show up.

Just wondering if scum would risk the negative effect you mentioned to use it to stop ineffective masons.

I don’t think so so I think Bork would still have it.

[MathBlade]

who stopped tammy from talking?

Who stopped you from answering the question for your entire role?

[MathBlade]

Can you look up and paraphrase the description again?
Look and see what happens if the user lacks a PT?

[MathBlade]

What if that didn’t say PT but thread?

That would seem to match what Tammy is under or pretty close no?

[MathBlade]

I have to work but I really want Bork’s flip.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Bork

Fuck it. Just here til I sort this.

[MathBlade]

ie. Perhaps I'm mafia with bork and lying, but FMPOV it is not the trident

That’s the problem I am having. You being scum and lying makes so many pieces fit.

[MathBlade]

Also sad my workaround didn’t work for Tammy.

Woulda loved to see some vote paragraphs from her.

[MathBlade]

I have to work but I really want Bork’s flip.

Bork's dying anyway.

I know he is just I kinda really in my gut don’t think BM is scum
I just don’t know how to articulate it.

[MathBlade]

The main thing is without Prism being scum (or at least a lock Townie) I don’t see scum using an artifact to silence Tammy or if it’s BM+Bork why scum haven’t conceded.

[MathBlade]

Hey Pooky,

Assume BM is scum and Bork is guiltied. Why haven’t scum said “You’re right gg?”

It’s a really odd scenario here if BM is scum.

There’s no “avoiding the shut out” they got a miselim on DGB.

[MathBlade]

Bork is doing nothing but prod dodges.

If BM was scum also doing prod dodges why haven’t they just conceded?

Because that’s all he is doing an elaborate prod dodge

[MathBlade]

Why?

[MathBlade]

Hmmm I will make you a deal.
If the game isn’t over with BM elim and Bork poison death then tomorrow you consider Prism and give me a chance to make the argument.
Deal?

[MathBlade]

ESPECIALLY if tammy actually does have a guilty on bork- he is the very person I am referencing here who refuses to concede. He makes town earn their win.

Why do we think Tammy has a guilty on bork?

Also I definitely have not looked at Cakez associatives yet even though I want to, I hope I do that before days end (I know we have time but I'm lazy)

Still plan to sheep Pooky unless I find something super juicy!

Because Tammy is voting Bork despite him likely dying tonight.

Tammy if you think Bork will die tonight
Vote Bork once.
If you think he won’t vote Bork twice.

[MathBlade]

Hmmm I will make you a deal.
If the game isn’t over with BM elim and Bork poison death then tomorrow you consider Prism and give me a chance to make the argument.
Deal?

you can just make the argument now dude

I am posting on mobile and doing chores and I don’t think you’ll consider it unless BM flips town.

[MathBlade]

Why?

Sometimes scum just don't concede, you're reading too far into it. I also think it's unlikely that they would have conceded this early, even if it's them the game isn't 100% lost

I'm becoming aware that tammy probably has some sort of guilty on bork and that bork has nothing more to argue being both guiltied and poisoned.

So far we're 2 for 1 with people who have grossly pushed me and refused to reevaluate being scum vs town.

Again that’s why we eliminate Battle Mage today
And then if I am killed you look at Prism tomorrow
Or if Tammy is killed I can make the argument myself.

[MathBlade]

I don’t know whether there’s salt with that but give me a few hours to eat dinner and chores then I will.

[MathBlade]

Admittedly I'm getting tired...Excuse typos...

Prism's ISO day one is just bad...I got through a rough thing of day one and I think it's pretty damning. If people actually interact and read with it I will continue tomorrow. Words are starting to blend together.

The Case for Prism Scum (Assuming Bork scum)

If Bork is not scum this shouldn't even be used for kindling

1. Ways Prism is scum
   
   
   
2. By read/play in thread (some posts are omitted that I feel don't prove the case as well/and or are just empty.
   1. In post 297, Prism says one scum in Prism or Bork is scum. Prism says it's ugly. So far it seems to be proven right.
      
   2. In post 400 rage claims but still hasn't had a scumread they're willing to push over the finish line. They shade me but do not want to see it through because they know if I flip town that's a bad fos on you + Bork.
      
   3. In post 632 They say they're having a bit of harder time with their scumreads this game. Instead they want to see more from slots this game. It reads very much like a "Where the fuck are my teammates?"
      
   4. Prism is shading Titus in 942 but still doesn't have a vote anywhere.
      
   5. There is one slot that is familiar with Prism's play, sangres. 943 per Prism. Who died? Sangres.
      
   6. Also in that post there's a linking of me with mastina. My argument was more than "flavor" as to why Prism was scum (see mechanical play section) and shading it like this is reductionist.
      
   7. Post 999 has a read wall. Compared to 621 bork becomes "pretty town". Let's look at what Bork has done during those posts. I will omit some posts for brevity.
      1. Bork says unless Prism and Bork are scum together then flavor is not congruent.
         What reason do we have that flavor is incongruent? We have lots of reasons that it is congruent. The empaths are the masons. Makes sense. My flavor claim as VT makes sense. Bodyguard was BP. In what world is HG Wells a VT? One of the most brilliant inventors on the show. (see more in mechanical section)
         
         
      2. 687You don't have to worry about me this game. Asking an unverifiable softball question to Sangres.
         
      3. 694 Says he doesn't like how I want Titus and Cakez. (Scumbeard + scum or scum + scum) and maybe one of LLD + Prism. (As established I believed the LLD mason claim I was trying to shade her badly to give her an extra day to work her magic. This was a way to be able to say Prism without starting anger part 20)
         
      4. 801 shades Spiffeh no vote.
         
      5. 809 mentions Dunn a second time and lack of read.
         
      6. 819 shades Grey ICE.
         
      7. 863 Spiffeh vote is really town.
         
      8. 870 pokes Dunn about scumread of me. Asks why I can't be town despite ISO being not liking my posts. A natural progression scumreads me.
         
      9. 888 pushes back on GreyICE town read and then says it's not his experience with town greyice still no vote.
         
      10. NO ACTIVE PUSHES and PRISM PUTS BORK AS A TOWN READ FROM SCUM
   8. 1020 Prism is literally confused by the fact I'm townbinning them for a bit because it would need to be demonstrated Bork was scum first. If Bork was ever confirmed I'd pretty much be back to Prism in a heartbeat because it just makes sense.
      
   9. 1342 Unvotes Titus and hasn't had a serious push all day. Wants to revisit Cakez tomorrow. ** THIS POST IS IMPORTANT IN THE VCA section.
      
      
   10. 1451 Feeling out pooky to see how strong his scumread is.
       
       
   11. 1540 First post interacting with mastina and it's more of a "chiding" You can't fake a townread on me. It's at this point, I think scum decided to save Mastina to save Cakez. Cakez wagon had already started up and mastina needed to die instead of Cakez and time was of the essence. So Prism and mastina needed to fake animosity fast since Prism had no record besides the readwalls of where they stood on the slot.
       
       
   12. 1702 Immediately tries to start pairing me with Mastina. Despite Mastina not having flipped yet and they have done no actual hunting of the slot, only shading.
       
       
   13. 1705 More shade of my slot but then says they vote Mastina without elaborating WHY?
       
       
   14. 1717 Another post to revisit Cakez and then never does.
3. 1721 defends Cakez using bad meta.
   
4. 1722 Should reread Titus to check cakez while still owing a Cakez reread for how long now?
   
5. Fuck the underlining 1727 Doesn't elaborate on Mastina scumread like I asked.
   
6. 1733 Another excuse to not read Cakez
   
7. 1741 finally some semblance of a reason why Mastina....a thousand posts later.
   
8. 1884 Cakez is now "disgusting" with no precedent.
   
9. 2067 Seems like wrong thread.
   
10. 2109 Random question to Cakez they never follow up on.
    
    
11. By VCA
    1. Takes a long time to make a vote. In the Iceland game it took to 739. With 9 players. This game has 17 or around twice as much. Post 1202 contains the first vote of the game with any levity behind it. It seems to possibly be a scum tell to wait and see where Prism can place a vote versus being aggressive with it. They see if they can get away with certain pushes. There doesn't become an issue until my wagon is dissolving. Then Prism votes Titus. Prism backs off Titus then joins the Mastina wagon when SirCakez/Mastina wagons were dualing. See 1755 for the VC. Titus wagon was dying down. This is a wolfy hop on to the goon.
       
       
    2. 1471

       Another readwall KTT is entirely reversed from bottom of scumreads to safely town. With almost no interaction except for someone to pick up their boomer. GreyICE is missing. Cakez is still "pretty town" despite wanting to revisit Cakez tomorrow in 1342. Hasn't pushed any scumreads despite largely being the same.
12. 1851 Mastina is #1 choice and won't swap off except to avoid a no elim. Once Cakez v Mastina was pretty well known.
    
13. 1884 Cakez is now "disgusting" with no precedent.
    
14. By Mechanical Play
    
15. My ISO pretty much has this...Like I'm just tired at this point.

[MathBlade]

I think A> This is a theme game Miller can be defined however
B> His flavor makes sense for a Miller
C> Some players are not claimed. Therefore they could be a cop or cop artifacts
D> A Miller doesn’t require a cop. See Boonskiies. There wasn’t a town cop but there was a Miller. There was a 3P invest but the Miller more fucked with all the loyal/disloyal powers
E> I said we’re probably elimming Battle Mage but I think he’s town.

This is more for later when it’s like “omg Battle Mage flipped town” what?

And if he flips scum and Bork is scum gg we win paranoia is healthy.

[MathBlade]

B> His flavor makes sense for a Miller

Does he carry around a gun?

There have been a few episodes where he has a gun yes.

Not science I address that in my early game ISO.
If you want something more lengthy tomorrow or Wednesday please or just see if BM is town and can address it tomorrow if still alive.

[MathBlade]

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Warehouse_13

Source: one episode is implosion.

The gist of why he makes a good Miller flavor wise is Artie accidentally selling artifacts to the Russians and gets so overwhelmed with guilt and turns himself in. Mrs Frederic offers repetentance and Artie gets recruited into the warehouse helping to fix all the damage he caused.

[MathBlade]

Like the words on the wiki make him sound bad but Artie is very much a heart of gold type. His back story is kinda sad. He was kinda a bit clueless.

[MathBlade]

Why do you think
Mastina/Cakez/Bork shoot Sangres over a claimed mason?

[MathBlade]

the reason i didnt believe bm about his gunsmith thing is because my character is like literally holding a gun in "his/her" picture and i dont have anything in my role pm that implies i would be guiltied by a gunsmith lol

Artie has pictures with guns I linked them.
Maybe BM didn’t want to give flavor?

Is it possible he’s scum? Sure. I think it’s a policy elim versus a scum one.
If he happens to be scum and we win Yay!

[MathBlade]

Cant cede what you never had though.

[MathBlade]

Ugh the Iceland I give you I was wrong on that I missed it in the skim. But yeah the lack of voting is still an issue

[MathBlade]

Also you quoted Mastina’s posts sure but no interaction is pretty obvious.
And no Titus wasn’t a serious push.
A push cannot be serious without a push or significant interaction with passion/emotion.

[MathBlade]

oh you were mech-guiltied as the last scum left lol that's different lololol

How would this be different here Pooky?