Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[House]

I think House+Frog became top spot.

And this cropped up over a post he refuses to ask me about because that would make it harder to support his scum agenda.

[House]

Enlighten what you know more than me SS and Ari.

That you're scum (2 out of 3 ain't bad).

When I made that suggestion, I thought we were at 6 and derped the math.

Anyone who is actually trying to solve the game knows 4 things:

1) my brain functionality is operating at the level of a slightly delusional geriatric patient
2) my play matches my town meta to the letter
3) my scum game between 2016 to 2021 has gone to absolute shit. I'd have died (game) days ago as scum.
4) Pancakes are better than waffles.

You, more than anyone else in this game, should have put these pieces together a long ass time ago. The only reason you haven't is because it serves your agenda NOT to.

[House]

Like I said, anything for damage control on your previous lim pool.

That's scum play, maintaining as many lim candidates as possible.

[House]

Like I said, anything for damage control on your precious* lim pool.

That's scum play, maintaining as many lim candidates as possible.

[House]

I'd prefer Datisi to House so I don't see the point of doing this towncasing thing

You misspelled MathBlade.

I forgive you, though.

[House]

Keep up the impotent shade.

When I changed my vote Frog wagon wasn't even a thing.

People were too busy being cowards.

[House]

Like you are right now.

[House]

If I had stayed in Frog so day, Math would be claiming I am bussing.

His agenda is transparent.

[House]

If I had stayed on* Frog all* day, Math would be claiming I am bussing.

His agenda is transparent.

[House]

That’s kinda where I am at barring a weird scum kill like IV.

This is bullshit.

IV is the only scum kill that makes sense.

S_S is no threat to them, and IV can guilty them.

Weird kill? Bullshit.

[House]

I mostly townread House off his d1 play, his aggression and meta-divergence from his scum games.

If we're in a Frog-scum/Andres-Town would, house looks much much worse by the way he is trying to push andres death and seeming to not really care about Frogger as much.

Regardless of that if I'm making a choice between Datisi/House I think I choose Datisi every time to be town.

I would too, but that's just because I trust him more to find Math's partner if frog is town.

[House]

That’s kinda where I am at barring a weird scum kill like IV.

This is bullshit.

IV is the only scum kill that makes sense.

S_S is no threat to them, and IV can guilty them.

Weird kill? Bullshit.

IV is even night so can’t act as it’s D3
Leaving SS alive means that if we assume worse case Frogger town and next elim town scum can still lose if they don’t have a roleblocker.

SS should 100% die here.

Stupid question.

Why would a town gunsmith claim an even night modifier?

Isn't there more EV in WIFOMing scum, letting them think he can act every night?

[House]

Up!

[House]

I don't think I've seen Math say a single thing which benefits Town over the last couple of pages and I don't know if he just has really bad reads right now or got cleared on accident.

He's.
Not.
Clear.

[House]

Why would a town gunsmith claim an even night modifier?

and you are pointing this out because?

I'm curious.

Are you not?

[House]

Stupid question.

Why would a town gunsmith claim an even night modifier?

Isn't there more EV in WIFOMing scum, letting them think he can act every night?

is he supposed to make up a result for night 1?

I made up a fake Mason claim, so it shouldn't be any surprise to hear me say yes.

But even if he didn't, he could claim no result.

That could be jailed, blocked, or hit Ascetic.

[House]

also i gotta say i don't think i'm seeing scum!math as much as i was in early day 3 so idk

the jury is still out, i just felt like pointing this out

LOL

VOTE: Datisi

House I think Math is town he just has terrible reads.

I have raisins for this push.

Keep the faith.

[House]

I would say the same to Math, but he's too 1-Dimensional.

[House]

@Ari

you are going to be left alive with scum!tisi and town!math because you're less useful for determining Datisi's alignment than a doorknob.

Ok and you think I'll vote for Math when that happens because?

Something something pursuing town win con something

[House]

@Ari

you are going to be left alive with scum!tisi and town!math because you're less useful for determining Datisi's alignment than a doorknob.

Ok and you think I'll vote for Math when that happens because?

The only hope for an Ari scum is bring House and vote House and make me decide. She brings Dat she loses

Coming from the same person that was screaming for Dats blood at the start of day and even now maintains a lim pool with Dats in it.

[House]

Up!

[House]

they'll be bitter

you do know that not everyone is as omgusy as you are?

i once brought a claimed power role to 3-way who i had been pushing for the *entire game* and i convinced her i was town so lole

Math and I are.

Math is probably 3.14159x more OMGUSy.

[House]

Mainly what realistically should happen
Elim Frogger
Vig / Elim Mathblade

See if we have a new day

Totes agree.

Totes.

Totes, Math.

[House]

still don't think it's house, but my pool of scumreads is very small rn so i should probably work on that at some point

You posturing for a read flip?

Just curious.

[House]

sorry on my phone so not doing the quote then delete a shit ton of text

Highlight text, then click Quote.

Works on mobile, too. I just did it for this post.

[House]

Are people still twiddling their thumbs?

This game has gotten boring as hell.

[House]

Pretty sure scum!Frog would find a way to justify voting Andres here in order to tie up the wagons.

He doesn't stand to gain much by vanity voting Datisi.

[House]

Idkbro

[House]

Pretty sure scum!Frog would find a way to justify voting Andres here in order to tie up the wagons.

He doesn't stand to gain much by vanity voting Datisi.

I think he does actually but I am too tired to explain it and would rather do so if Frogger flips scum.

Otherwise it’s poisoning the well.

Not player in the game to get any equity from distancing, if that's what you're dancing around.

[House]

Pretty sure scum!Frog would find a way to justify voting Andres here in order to tie up the wagons.

He doesn't stand to gain much by vanity voting Datisi.

I think he does actually but I am too tired to explain it and would rather do so if Frogger flips scum.

Otherwise it’s poisoning the well.

Bit late* in the game to get any equity from distancing, if that's what you're dancing around.

[House]

House please ignore Math's awful reads in this game and attempts to lead, Math has no idea what he's doing and I've caught both scum.

You mean I'm not supposed to sheep my hardest scumread?

Well damn.

[House]

House please ignore Math's awful reads in this game and attempts to lead, Math has no idea what he's doing and I've caught both scum.

Just so we're clear... you think both scum feel threatened enough at this point in the game to be on a wagon together pushing you?

idk bro.

[House]

house is kind of defending frogster no?

Nah he’s being stubborn and doesn’t want Frog because I scumread him.

Talking like you know I'm town is weird when you're keeping me in your supposed solve.

[House]

gladiate: mathblade

FUCK YEAH!

VOTE: Mathblade

I don't care that it's not a real gladiate. It's real to me.

[House]

house is kind of defending frogster no?

Nah he’s being stubborn and doesn’t want Frog because I scumread him.

Talking like you know I'm town is weird when you're keeping me in your supposed solve.

This isn’t me talking to you like I know you’re town.

This statement is true of both alignments.

Bullshit.

If frog was scum as you pretend to believe, and if I was scum as you pretend to believe, you wanting frog dead isn't why I wouldn't want frog dead.

And "Nah"? If frog and I were scum together, any resistance to his wagon would be, at a minimum, a soft defense.

YOU KNOW I AM TOWN.

[House]

gladiate: mathblade

FUCK YEAH!

VOTE: Mathblade

I don't care that it's not a real gladiate. It's real to me.

It can’t be this is a normal.

Nero is continuing the theatrics of Frogger.

Read the post you quoted again.

I said I DON'T CARE that it isn't real.

[House]

You actually don’t have the numbers to miselim me so this is again for show.

This. Is. A. Scum. Mindset.

Town cares about finding scum. Scum cares about finding lims.

[House]

So miselimming without towncred for scum is suicide

If you really believed that, I'd be a hard townread.

This is a fucking confession.

[House]

So miselimming without towncred for scum is suicide

If you really believed that, I'd be a hard townread.

This is a fucking confession.

And so would frogger/nero slot.

[House]

I'm not unvoting Mathblade until one of us are dead.

Let's test that futility claim.

[House]

I'm not unvoting Mathblade until one of us are dead.

Let's test that futility claim.

Fine by me.
I will stay on Nero as that’s the right thing to do.

For your agenda.

Frog has been bleeding town and now you're stuck.

[House]

Now Math is forced to either kill me tonight as his most vocal pusher (over confirmed town, if he thinks he can keep them in line), or push me tomorrow to keep me out of F3.

Good luck pushing me, Math.

[House]

Oh, we're still at 8.

Lol. Derp.

[House]

Yeah, that checks out.

I think?

Fuck it.

Idc either way.

[House]

Now Math is forced to either kill me tonight as his most vocal pusher (over confirmed town, if he thinks he can keep them in line), or push me tomorrow to keep me out of F3.

Good luck pushing me, Math.

Let me ask you this:

Why does Nero immediately gladiate me unless he’s being coached by scum I have to die?

A Townie rep in is “Hey haven’t read what’s the situation”

Lol at claiming Nero needs coaching.

[House]

I could easily argue that scum Nero would likely have info on a safer player to push than the one lying about being confirmed town that has too many others duped to get voted out.

[House]

that's very convenient. Who claimed first?

that's very convenient. Who claimed first?

A50 claimed first
VP claimed second
IV claimed third
SS claimed fourth at which point House rescinded vig claim.

The fact I fake Mason claimed which saved iv & resulted in a scum flip AND FAKE VIG CLAIMED which put a huge target on my head for the real vig to cc with a bullet makes it fucking nonsensical for anyone to scumread me this game.

I'm more fucking clear than you are.

[House]

Claims are everyone is VT except
SS Vig
Me N1 backup vig
IV even night gunsmith who checked SS

And VP weak Hider confirmed town.

Which Math is leaving out because he knows that's a lot of town power, until he can conveniently use it to fake a clear on himself.

[House]

Whatevs.

My scum buddies told me to get the claim wrong, obv.

[House]

(I know you struggle with sarcasm, so that's me slapping you upside the head with sarcasm)

[House]

Whatevs.

My scum buddies told me to get the claim wrong, obv.

Nah you’ve been told by enough people to know you’re being an illogical player.

It’s either yourself intentionally as scum or you not caring about what anyone else says.

My memory is shit.

[House]

Almost like I don't live here, especially on days I work.

Who'da thunk?

[House]

No posting for a half hour = "disappeared"

[House]

very bettlejuicy...

Yep. You caught me lurking for a half hour.

Not like I was watching videos or getting ready for work.

Ya got me.

[House]

No posting for a half hour = "disappeared"

oh god, nero cain is a frogsterking alt, who could've known

No chance.

Frog is fun to be in games with.

[House]

No posting for a half hour = "disappeared"

oh god, nero cain is a frogsterking alt, who could've known

you mock but it comes from a place of pain

So does mine.

[House]

I always push the person I find most likely to be scum.

ah no wonder town died day 2 and the town is trying to kill more town today.

but srs House your math vote is bad, like unless someone is fakeclaiming a pr it seems like there are too few without him. Why is he scum?

VP pretty much announced his visit during d1 twilight, which type know if you even attempted to solve.

Your predecessor theorized a scum roleblocker could have easily given Math a fake clear.

[House]

Math refuses to acknowledge that possibility and is overpaying the "merci clear" narrative.

[House]

Math refuses to acknowledge that possibility and is overplaying* the "merci clear" narrative.

[House]

Math refuses to acknowledge that possibility and is overplaying* the "mech* clear" narrative.

Goddammit

[House]

VP announcing his A50 visit would have likely led scum to kill VP if A50 was town, or block him if A50 is scum.

All this town power, you think scum has no counter?

Get the fuck outta here.

[House]

3 town PRs and a game claim sounds about right, to me. :shrug:

[House]

3 town PRs and a fake* claim sounds about right, to me. :shrug:

[House]

Hey nero, I'm going to

lurk

work for the next 6-8 hours, so you have plenty of time to call me scum.

Have fun!

[House]

VOTE: MathBlade

Spoiler:

Prod Timer:
(expired on 2022-02-09 17:18:00)

[House]

don't we always no-lim here?

When the night kill is a no-brainer, no lim is a waste of the day.

Dammit, now the timer reset.

Spoiler: Prod Timer

(expired on 2022-02-17 17:23:00)

[House]

don't we always no-lim here?

When the night kill is a no-brainer, no lim is a waste of the day.

Dammit, now the timer reset.

Spoiler: Prod Timer

(expired on 2022-02-09 17:24:00)

Fix't

[House]

dats it feels weird that you're not even talking to me anymore

you are also not talking to me, so >_>

i thought about a no-kill, but somewhere along the lines, i thought how s_s flipping that weird n2 vig/commuter means iv is probably telling the truth about being even-night gunsmith.

though, now that i say it, probably not 100% that he's a *town* one... okay maybe we do no-lim here

Y'all just can't let me afk for a couple days.

We're at 6, we lim today because that will bring us to 4 after the nk and THEN we no lim.

iv if town likely dies tonight so it would be stupid to consider them at all today.

[House]

Goddammit

VOTE: Datisi

Dats wanting to angle for an iv lim on d4 when he's a claimed even night gunsmith is scum trying to save a bullet.

[House]

UNVOTE:

Forgot his misguided succession to no lim. Yes, already.

[House]

UNVOTE:

Forgot his misguided suggestion* to no lim. Yes, already.

[House]

though, now that i say it, probably not 100% that he's a *town* one... okay

maybe we do no-lim here

which part of "maybe we do no-lim today to see if the obvious nightkill is going to happen" is angling for misyeeting iv today?

Scroll up.

[House]

I guess if the scum team was two goons plus a traitor then maybe?

Ok.

VOTE: Aristea

Math/Aristea?

I need to do some reading.

[House]

We're at 6, we lim today because that will bring us to 4 after the nk and THEN we no lim.

ok, new question

who do we lim?

if your answer is "mathblade", how do you explain the false clear on a town of this power?

Just shut up for two seconds and let me think. Geez.

[House]

If Ari is scum, Math isn't a partner.

[House]

You don't want to vote for me if you are town

Your shade of iv on the day before his power can be used again if town reeks.

[House]

Wait...

No lim today means parity tomorrow.

We're in MELo.

And Ari wants to no lim.

[House]

You don't want to vote for me if you are town

Your shade of iv on the day before his power can be used again if town reeks.

Reeks of what? if IV is town he is going to get shot tonight so why does it even matter?

So why do scum's job for them?

How is that +EV town?

[House]

6-1 = 5

I need coffee.

[House]

you should unvote and at least let IV post before you do anything

Perhaps.

UNVOTE: Hard to go afk if I'm tracking posts for votes.

[House]

you should unvote and at least let IV post before you do anything

Perhaps.

UNVOTE:

Hard to go afk if I'm tracking posts for votes.

[House]

god i fucking hate this game i was hoping s_s was gonna shoot me so i don't have to think about this anymore

I feel guilty because I was also hoping for this.

Gonna call bullshit.

No way anyone besides a claimed pr died last night.

[House]

I like his posting while he's asleep it's very townie

Dammit quit trying to crawl back into my pocket.

[House]

Ok. Coffee time for real. Stone Cabin is calling to me.

If anyone posts from my account in the next 10 minutes, lim me.

[House]

House -> What do you make of SS being shot rather than IV? Given that you said you expected IV to be shot?

I was just trying to buy S_S another night.

Scum's hand is pretty much forced to kill iv if he's town tonight, especially if we hit scum today.

If we mislim today, scum can try to claim any guilty is a scum gambit by iv to secure the game winning mislim, so it's a tossup if iv gets killed tonight if we mislim.

I feel like I'm making more sense now, correct me if I'm wrong.

[House]

I guess explain to me why you shouldn’t be elimmed.

At this point, I no longer care.

I'm not going to continue to repeat myself on how fucking stupid the notion that I'm scum is.

I'm just going to plan my future accordingly if you lack the sense to see it for yourself.

[House]

Miselimming at 6 alive with 2 scum (assumed as a mini with 2 scum total is bad) we lose, so this assumes we hit a scum or no elim.

If we no lim, the statement stands.

[House]

We have to hit scum today if we want to be able to trust a potential guilty from iv tomorrow.

[House]

Lol, not even then.

Shit.

I give up.

[House]

i think atp house is significantly more likely to be town than Datisi/Andres

I guess the only way I would possibly see House as being mafia is if he is aligned with IV-scum but if that's the world we're living in I don't see how this setup passes review so I'm going to throw it in the trash.

Lying about being a Mason to save my buddy on d1 requires a bigger set of balls than I have.

[House]

iv is so dying tonight, lol.

He's about as informed as I am.

[House]

Up!

[House]

Whatever works.

[House]

I'm down for whatever.

[House]

Thing is... I never scumread Mathblade.

I was just gambiting a push on him in the hopes of getting to final 3 with him and instavoting whoever else was left in the game and telling him about the ploy.

The problem is, I do not trust him to believe me because he thinks I can be scum even with the things I've done in this game being nonsensical for scum to do.

I can't work with that.

[House]

also i gotta say i don't think i'm seeing scum!math as much as i was in early day 3 so idk

the jury is still out, i just felt like pointing this out

LOL

VOTE: Datisi

House I think Math is town he just has terrible reads.

I have raisins for this push.

Keep the faith.

I would say the same to Math, but he's too 1-Dimensional.

Proof.

[House]

I think I want everyone especially Ari to put their top team of two down, no explanations. This helped me catch the exact scum team in an alt game and who knows it might work here.

for me it is Datisi/Andres

That is weird.

iv & Mathblade. Town is weak as hell if iv is scum.

[House]

I think I want everyone especially Ari to put their top team of two down, no explanations. This helped me catch the exact scum team in an alt game and who knows it might work here.

for me it is Datisi/Andres

That is weird.

iv & Mathblade. Town is weak as hell if iv is scum.

Top two means who is scum House.

I think Ari has seen what I am asking

Oh. That makes more sense.

Dats & Andres.

[House]

Up!

[House]

um if you're town voting for yourself is like literally game throwing?

You mean like that thing Nero did?

[House]

I’ll state the obvious - a No Execution here is not sensible. Due to the mechanical claims that we have, it doesn’t make sense to No Vote only to lose the remaining claimed PR left. We need IV’s voice to help guide our thinking.

This line feels nonsensical to me because IV has not helped to guide our thinking at all this game.

This is not a nonsensical line if you actually understood what I meant (which obviously you could have asked about). Math has basically said a variation of this today as well, but you’re not accusing them of saying something nonsensical. That line doesn’t mean to say that IV has guided the Town this game

in previous days

. It just means that we should listen to them

today

.

Anyway, I’ll vote whatever Math + IV conclude is the right call then. That includes voting for myself if that’s the decision that’s arrived at. I haven’t read what I wanted to yet - but I did feel like I needed to respond to this nonsense.

Why would you be willing to vote yourself?

It’s simple - I want to win. But I also understand that I can’t do what Frogsterking did. I can’t sit here and pollute the thread and kick and scream to avoid my execution for a loss (which has never happened at this stage of the game before) if both of the voices I think are far more likely to be Town are pushing in that direction. It is not realistic. I’m in the POE. My voice and arguments are going to be considered, but not fully taken at face value. For good reason. And I don’t want to use emotional arguments to defend my standing in the game.

I don't believe you're town.

If we mislim today, game over.

You're saying this because you know the game won't end with your death.

[House]

Oh it’s game throwing therefore it’s coming from Scum.

It wouldn't be gamethrowing as scum. Just a setback.

[House]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

[House]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I didn't say I was in hers.

I try to pocket players as both alignments. Scum tend to be more apprehensive of my blatant pocket attempts, in my experience.

[House]

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I am not that scary mathblade

Scary Ari wouldn't give me warm fuzzies.

[House]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I didn't say I was in hers.

I try to pocket players as both alignments. Scum tend to be more apprehensive of my blatant pocket attempts, in my experience.

Ugh let me try this again.

Can you be more concrete in why you townread Ari?

Not that she townreads me, someone who would be easy to get mislimmed, but that she can and does support it in a way that provides an active obstacle TO my elimination.

Kinda like MorningTweet did in the game we were in together. Though the 2 scenarios are obviously not identical, I still get the same vibes.

Looking beyond the, "ooh, this LOOKS bad" and deducing the motives behind my play is ++ town to me.

[House]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I didn't say I was in hers.

I try to pocket players as both alignments. Scum tend to be more apprehensive of my blatant pocket attempts, in my experience.

Ugh let me try this again.

Can you be more concrete in why you townread Ari?

Not that she townreads me, someone who would be easy to get mislimmed, but that she can and does support it in a way that provides an active obstacle TO my elimination.

Kinda like MorningTweet did in the game we were in together. Though the 2 scenarios are obviously not identical, I still get the same vibes.

Looking beyond the, "ooh, this LOOKS bad" and deducing the motives behind my play is ++ town to me.

I don’t remember this game and it’s late.

Can you give me a title or something?

I'm too lazy to type a title. How about a link?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87762

[House]

That works! Just wanted something to look up so I could find the game

Lol that game was hilarious

Almost won that …almost

Wrong game!

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=87652

[House]

/

[House]

I swear, just stay tf away from me.

[House]

I swear, just stay tf away from me.

I am doing my job in considering every world.

Considering you just put out the “wrong game” where Morning Tweet was a traitor it’s worth a random dive.

Yet you completely ignore the right one.

So much for considering every world.

[House]

Or in a traditional scum world you + House

See, that's just flat out nonsensical.

[House]

Andres traitor doesn’t fit with VCA

Doesn't mean much when he's been MIA the entire game.

[House]

Bullshit.

[House]

Almost50 (3): VP Baltar, House, skitter30

hmm. i'm thinking back to my counterwagon theory. how it was likely there was scum on the counterwagon. i'd have to reread d1 though to see if i missed anything, since "scum tried to cw to save lapla" doesn't go well with "scum fakecliamed mason to stop a different cw" >_>

The only way I think it makes sense is House traitor or House wanting to die or attract attention.

I don’t understand House most of the time anyway.

Cool. So why did I fake claim vig as scum on d2 when a real vig never counterclaims during the day and just shoots the fake claimer?

[House]

So why did I fake claim vig as scum on d2 when a real vig never counterclaims during the day and just shoots the fake claimer?

by this logic, why did you do it as town? obviously you'd hope the vig was bright enough to see you're faking again, which like, pretty much everyone at this table is.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if I got shot by the vig, and I stood to get shot by scum for being a claimed pr.

No down side.

[House]

Almost50 (3): VP Baltar, House, skitter30

hmm. i'm thinking back to my counterwagon theory. how it was likely there was scum on the counterwagon. i'd have to reread d1 though to see if i missed anything, since "scum tried to cw to save lapla" doesn't go well with "scum fakecliamed mason to stop a different cw" >_>

The only way I think it makes sense is House traitor or House wanting to die or attract attention.

I don’t understand House most of the time anyway.

Cool. So why did I fake claim vig as scum on d2 when a real vig never counterclaims during the day and just shoots the fake claimer?

I don’t know. Maybe informed 1 shot vig? Fake claiming vig is kinda dumb as town and you lead town down a wild goose chase when I thought something was fishy about you. I don’t understand you so trying to just makes me more confused honestly .

That's because you just look at actions.

Not motivation.

[House]

my solve has been vp/iv/laplacian for a while now :3 I largely townread everyone else here

Your "solve" is 66.666666666667% wrong.

Glass houses & whatnot.

Help.

This makes me hella paranoid

That was a glorious post.

[House]

Definitely an experienced scum move. Prop up bad town, kill them, coast on a few elims.

Experienced scum also tell players how exactly wrong their "solve" is too, amirite?

[House]

Definitely an experienced scum move. Prop up bad town, kill them, coast on a few elims.

Experienced scum also tell players how exactly wrong their "solve" is too, amirite?

Not sure what this means.

my solve has been vp/iv/laplacian for a while now :3 I largely townread everyone else here

Your "solve" is 66.666666666667% wrong.

Glass houses & whatnot.

Help.

This makes me hella paranoid

[House]

house, have you ever explained *why* you were townreading iv so strongly on day 1?

Nope.

[House]

house, why did you retract the mason claim at the start of day 2?

It failed to serve its purpose, and I didn't want to continue misleading town.

If I had let it stand, it could have caused confusion when someone else claimed later that day.

[House]

And everyone on a scale of 1-10 Ari/Andres solve?

It's at least half right.

[House]

house, why did you retract the mason claim at the start of day 2?

It failed to serve its purpose, and I didn't want to continue misleading town.

If I had let it stand, it could have caused confusion when someone else claimed later that day.

I mean, the claim served its d1 purpose, but failed to serve its n1 purpose.

[House]

If I need to be flipped this game to establish that this is kind of play from me going forward is part of my town meta that's fine. Also, I'm not necessarily that much busier per say, but I just don't want to be devoting boatloads of my time and energy to this game anymore. Some recent games took a lot out of me; I'm experimenting here and trying to strike a balance. If that means I get yeeted more often as town and am considered and even worse player than I already am, I will learn to accept it. Or maybe I'll siteflake again, who knows honestly.

This is why I fakeclaimed Masons with iv on d1 to prevent this lim.

I relate to this mindset, and I'd hate for his d1 lim this soon after returning to make him apathetic about the site/game.

[House]

Sup?

[House]

I'm an open book!

[House]

That book is Mad Magazine, but still!

[House]

If you seriously want an answer, I'll just quote the post where I answered that question when Math asked me.

The reason hasn't changed.

[House]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I didn't say I was in hers.

I try to pocket players as both alignments. Scum tend to be more apprehensive of my blatant pocket attempts, in my experience.

Ugh let me try this again.

Can you be more concrete in why you townread Ari?

Not that she townreads me, someone who would be easy to get mislimmed, but that she can and does support it in a way that provides an active obstacle TO my elimination.

Kinda like MorningTweet did in the game we were in together. Though the 2 scenarios are obviously not identical, I still get the same vibes.

Looking beyond the, "ooh, this LOOKS bad" and deducing the motives behind my play is ++ town to me.

[House]

Why do you townread me?

[House]

What do you feel our odds of winning this game are?

Honestly, not great.

I'm not a fan of widely accepted PoE's because they rarely contain all of the scum.

[House]

Some House scum games if you feel like doing reading:


DoaR - Large Theme Large Theme Multiball
Frogs "I hardclaim Masons with Dwlee99"
Radio Buzz Five Post Rep Out
Mini Normal Closest to Applicable here I guess? Mathblade reps into his slot.
The Neighborhood Cult Leader Game


It's a bit of an exaggeration to say it's a five minute read but he does feel different from his other scum games in that I don't really think he goes out of his way to make big-brain plays when he's scum? I did just skim a bit so feel free to do your own work and let me know if I am wrong.

From reading your prior scumgames - I get the feeling that you are less serious and less present in your scum games and you feel like you enjoy playing town more than you enjoy playing scum. I see in several scum games you make excuses about activity to be not around as much but in this game you feel like you actively enjoy participating in the game.

A lot of your "gambits" this game I can see the pro-town motivation behind making them and I don't think it's within your scum range to consistently think of ways to fake-gambit to try to get pro-town outcomes to occur.

I have a bad habit of believing in self-meta when a player vigorously pounds the table about how town they are and it checks out upon a meta-reread.

See? This is what I mean. This looks like a lot of work that I don't picture scum being willing to do and box themselves into a corner where it would be difficult to flip their read on someone that would otherwise be easy to get rid of.

[House]

Like, I wish Mathblade had this kind of capability.

[House]

Like, I wish Mathblade had this kind of capability.

It's not that hard to do fake meta research as mafia, you just click on some links and read things?

Yes, but your read is cementec in those statements and backtracking on them will make it pretty obvious that you didn't believe them when you said them.



Especially when you've made the same points redundantly and built upon them.

It would take some pretty sophisticated hoops to be able to say, "oh, nevermind all that shit I said earlier".

[House]

Like, I wish Mathblade had this kind of capability.

It's not that hard to do fake meta research as mafia, you just click on some links and read things?

Yes, but your read is cemented* in those statements and backtracking on them will make it pretty obvious that you didn't believe them when you said them.



Especially when you've made the same points redundantly and built upon them.

It would take some pretty sophisticated hoops to be able to say, "oh, nevermind all that shit I said earlier".

[House]

What do you feel our odds of winning this game are?

Honestly, not great.

I'm not a fan of widely accepted PoE's because they rarely contain all of the scum.

So who do you think is the scum that is not in the PoE?

I was paranoid that iv could be a scum gunsmith put in to find the vig... but that's only likely if he's lying about being even night only, as the only gun scum has to worry about was n2 and the vig would have shot before it could be killed off which doesn't seem legitimate.

Gunsmith seems like a town claim, if it's real. The otherwise lackluster claims suggest it likely is.

So, the PoE is likely legit and I'm just being irrational.

[House]

ok but if I am mafia why would I need to reverse my read on you to win the game?

Wouldn't it be simpler to pocket you with a well reasoned townread and then get you to mis-eliminate someone else?

That's all fine and good until ELo, where I'm the prime elimination target.

[House]

I don't think you are the prime elimination target, I don't think anyone is even scumreading you?

Math would have eliminated me several times over by now, and he's still poised to pounce at the slightest hint that my wagon would pass.

[House]

Which annoys the fuck out of me because he should fucking know better.

[House]

Even by his own standard of my old scum play, I wasn't one that caught scumreads when I was scum 6+ years ago. I solo carried my teams in the past from time to time.

The fact my recent scumgames look like sometime who's never even played the game before should be more informative to him than anyone else in this game.

[House]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me.

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

[House]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me (as like, a playstyle thing).

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

Edited for clarity.

[House]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me (as like, a playstyle thing).

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

Edited for clarity.

I don’t want to hard townread anyone in elo as a playstyle thing.

Those who I know can deep wolf (Skitter, you, RC, Titus) I always keep a bit of doubt for

The difference is I am not actively letting that sus get in the way of my solve today.

This is bullshit.

If I tried to use meta from 5+ years ago to justify a read on you, you'd rightly call it bullshit.

Stop doing it to me.

[House]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me (as like, a playstyle thing).

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

Edited for clarity.

I don’t want to hard townread anyone in elo as a playstyle thing.

Those who I know can deep wolf (Skitter, you, RC, Titus) I always keep a bit of doubt for

The difference is I am not actively letting that sus get in the way of my solve today.

This is bullshit.

If I tried to use meta from 5+ years ago to justify a read on you, you'd rightly call it bullshit.

Stop doing it to me.

I am not using it to justify a read on you

I am using it to justify your potential skill level.

Which is an ignorant if not asinine & unfounded assumption.

Which you'd know if YOU ACTUALLY READ MY RECENT SCUM GAMES.

[House]

Considering it’s a PoE of four and both you and Ari suspect Dats and Andres I find it more likely Ari has pocketed you than you being scum.

Well, she's fine a fine job if that's the case, because I'm not voting outside of Andres today, and Dats is my most likely vote by far tomorrow.

[House]

Considering it’s a PoE of four and both you and Ari suspect Dats and Andres I find it more likely Ari has pocketed you than you being scum.

Well, she's done a fine job if that's the case, because I'm not voting outside of Andres today, and Dats is my most likely vote by far tomorrow.

EBWOP

[House]

There's literally nothing to be gained by pocketing me.

I'm hardly a driving force in this game.

The very idea is laughable.

[House]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13055898

I think it can work pretty well.

Idk who that's to, but I hope it wasn't for my benefit because a link with no context doesn't tell me anything.

[House]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I mean, that's primarily true because of you, though.

Math has been busting his ass trying to kill me, and you kinda made that a difficult proposition at best.

You had no idea how I'd react to your hard defense. I could have easily called it white knighting if I was as superficial as Mathblade.

[House]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I mean, that's primarily true because of you, though.

Math has been busting his ass trying to kill me, and you kinda made that a difficult proposition at best.

You had no idea how I'd react to your hard defense. I could have easily called it white knighting if I was as superficial as Mathblade.

I actually haven’t. I have been trying to sort you and you’ve been doing that protown lying bullshit which is very difficult to differentiate from scum lying bullshit for me.

That's because you only care about actions, not motivations.

[House]

Like, you still can't tell me why I, as scum, would fake claim the one role in the game that could simply kill me instead of cc me and battle it out in day play.

It's literally suicide as scum.

[House]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I think you do try to pocket me while saying dumb mechanical things to get what you want.

Andres was correct in there’s no world here we don’t elim. I don’t like you suggesting we should.

What's my scum motivation in suggesting no elim?

I can think of two.

One is to kill me over IV who suspects you more and then when IV gets an inno on you or a buddy coast
Another is to kill IV then if we get scum then kill me so final elim isn’t town driven

What horseshit.

That's no world you die over an even night gunsmith ON AN EVEN NIGHT.

[House]

Will you please shut up?

Absolutely not.

You've pissed me off this entire fucking game, so I'm glad that you're starting to feel it too.

[House]

Up!

[House]

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

Daring to disagree with Mathblade puts a scumread on your head.

That's just how it is.

[House]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

I have paranoia about IV being scum and this setup being unbalanced.

No-elim would remove that paranoia for me if IV is shot overnight.

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

I've changed my mind.

I want to no lim tomorrow so town will have a chance to win.

[House]

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

we literally don't lose anything by going from 6->5 to confirm IV town

We lose both elims being town driven.

We don't have that as it is.

You're scum MVP regardless of your alignment.

[House]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

I have paranoia about IV being scum and this setup being unbalanced.

No-elim would remove that paranoia for me if IV is shot overnight.

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

I've changed my mind.

I want to no lim tomorrow so town will have a chance to win.

I haven’t even tried casing her and now you’re saying you want it to be magically tomorrow?

Despite the fact you think it would be IV dying and I would lose my one fail safe if Ari is town to fucking tell me so?

No.

I'm saying I'm voting no lim instead of Datisi tomorrow to get rid of you tomorrow night.

[House]

We lose both elims being town driven.

You think IV is going to survive the night?

I think one of me or IV will.

If we no elim then me or IV dies and the other drives the next da

Then both melos are town driven

This hubris is why you need to go.

The fact you think there's any chance you die over an even night gunsmith on an even night is hilarious.

[House]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

I have paranoia about IV being scum and this setup being unbalanced.

No-elim would remove that paranoia for me if IV is shot overnight.

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

I've changed my mind.

I want to no lim tomorrow so town will have a chance to win.

I haven’t even tried casing her and now you’re saying you want it to be magically tomorrow?

Despite the fact you think it would be IV dying and I would lose my one fail safe if Ari is town to fucking tell me so?

No.

I'm saying I'm voting no lim instead of Datisi tomorrow to get rid of you tomorrow night.

I mean…That assumes we even have a tomorroe and requires me to fire correct today yeah? Then if you no elim tomorrow after I prove myself right today that is dumb

I'm not voting anyone but Andres today.

You don't dictate my vote.

[House]

I mean…going against the two conf town means the wagon would likely need scum to go through so…you do that. You’re not in control conf town is.

Which is why pocketing me as scum is futile.

[House]

VOTE: Andresvmb

No reason not to do this now.

[House]

You’ve been doing these little misreps all game and it’s annoying

You calling not understanding "misrepping" is what's annoying.

[House]

I mean…going against the two conf town means the wagon would likely need scum to go through so…you do that. You’re not in control conf town is.

Which is why pocketing me as scum is futile.

If you won’t ever vote scum it’s the perfect pocket

And worthless when my vote is guaranteed to be in the minority, Mr. Superficial.

[House]

Premise 2: those with more susses than town are more than likely town

Just.

Fucking.

Lol.

[House]

Trying to argue the minutia of a system as if that’s my sole reason for scumreading you is not accurate either

You’ve been doing these little misreps all game and it’s annoying

You're the one who called me mech-scum because of "system" so why wouldn't I try to figure out why your system is wrong so you don't have this false data point?

I mean I explained it at a high level

Premise 1: scum want to win and will name at least one town in their wolves
Premise 2: those with more susses than town are more than likely town
Premise 3: those with some susses are more than likely scum as scum avoid pure susses

So then you’re more than likely scum

Based on your bad system, at least one of the two town according to your results have to be scum.

Keep your snake oil.

[House]

I mean this further applies to House in that either House is scum or scum don’t want to argue he is scum because he just starts fights for no goddamn reason.

Just because you don't know what the reason is, doesn't mean I don't have one.

I always play to my win con.

Always.

I just don't agree with the superficial bullshit that so many people subscribe to.

[House]

Who here scumreads Mathblade and iv?

Nobody, right?

Shit, there's the team everybody!

/s

[House]

The Dats/Andres together team both know they have to elim you.

Yet Datisi is not pushing you.

This ALWAYS happens with scum, because they don't want to be tied together.

Scum 1-0-fucking-1.

[House]

Maybe you and House if he keeps trying to save you from me actually explaining my read on you.

One of these days, you're going to learn I don't give a rat's ass about your threats.

Probably.

I have faith.

[House]

There is a lot more to it that I am quite frankly too tired to explain.

I would rather case you

You keep saying that, but you never do.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to force you to click reply, are they?

Reply to this post if they are.

[House]

your system is basically taking a poe3 that's exactly symmetrical and then concluding that I'm mech-scum because House townreads me.

You keep stating this repeatedly and it’s been addressed. I don’t see what saying the same thing in the same way achieves.

I am trying to show you that your system is flawed by pointing out how the inputs are working.

I mean you’re trying to say a system is flawed you don’t understand similar to how scum rebelled against the solve in the game I linked that was correct?

Anything town can do, scum can do.

The inverse is also true.

That is WHY MOTIVE MATTERS.

[House]

I so wish I was wrong and Mathblade had a greater than -100% percent chance of dying tonight.

[House]

I'm asking you if

you

think it will be useful.

If you're just going to ignore me I'm fine not bothering you with it and saving myself the effort.

You're not going to change his mind.

But hopefully, iv has better sense and stops the stupidity.

[House]

Basically, you're speaking to the wrong person.

[House]

For the record, if iv is by since miracle alive tomorrow I don't care what kind of guilty he claims I'm never not voting him.

It's literally a suicide play for scum not to kill a town even night gunsmith on an even night.

[House]

For the record, if iv is by some* miracle alive tomorrow I don't care what kind of guilty he claims I'm never not voting him.

It's literally a suicide play for scum not to kill a town even night gunsmith on an even night.

EBWOP

[House]

Going to bed.

I'm going to wake up tomorrow to see that there is still no magically delicious scum case against Ari.

Calling it now.

[House]

gleam

glean*

... and so far, I'm right.

Good night.

[House]

I didn't trust nero's or frogger's accuracy when the slot was alive.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and suddenly sheep it now.

... God I really need to get to bed.

[House]

Wanting a no elim here when it’s not right

I'd totally support no elim.

Not entirely to spite you, but I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't be a bonus.

[House]

I know I know everyone townreads you but that’s why I am not pushing you today.

Which is precisely what I told Ari as to why you gave up pushing me.

[House]

gleam

glean*

... and so far, I'm right.

Good night.

Dude…now you’re just being an ass.

I am staying up til damn near midnight to give something for IV to look at please don’t be an ass

Do some math, Math.

How many times have I been an ass as town? As scum?

I won't hold my breath for an answer, because it would undermine the scumread you're fighting so hard to maintain.

[House]

I know I know everyone townreads you but that’s why I am not pushing you today.

Which is precisely what I told Ari as to why you gave up pushing me.

That shoulda said sorting. Tired. Good night

No, the original post was more accurate.

Fatigue has a similar result to inebriation.

[House]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=24641

I lied there’s one

One what?

[House]

gleam

glean*

... and so far, I'm right.

Good night.

Dude…now you’re just being an ass.

I am staying up til damn near midnight to give something for IV to look at please don’t be an ass

Do some math, Math.

How many times have I been an ass as town? As scum?

I won't hold my breath for an answer, because it would undermine the scumread you're fighting so hard to maintain.

Yeah.

I wasn't an ass.

I was very personable in that game in comparison to this.

[House]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=24641

I lied there’s one

gleam

glean*

... and so far, I'm right.

Good night.

Dude…now you’re just being an ass.

I am staying up til damn near midnight to give something for IV to look at please don’t be an ass

Do some math, Math.

How many times have I been an ass as town? As scum?

I won't hold my breath for an answer, because it would undermine the scumread you're fighting so hard to maintain.

Here's how invested Mathblade is in scumreading me...

This is me arguing in the game he linked:

I'm not limming Titus straight out of the gate, especially when she has bigger problems going on and doesn't deserve to have to fight off your paranoia right this minute.

Frankly, trying to get her limmed right this second is... rude, to be nice about it.

If you want to revisit this on D2 after she's had time to deal with her personal stuff, I'm all ears.

Dont know why I bother when this playerlist will just ignore me but I have to say it
A House who doesn't care to read me OR Titus after that exchange and just votes me is never town

Your push was shit.

I always treat Titus as town, pending confirmation. That's MY meta, for your ass. And it's confirmable.

That he's trying to say there's any similarity between me being an ass in this game and that one just defies logic.

[House]

Mathblade didn't even call me an ass for my language, for that matter.

He called me an ass for being a grammar hammer.

Which I never was in that game.

And I use this language in all games regardless of alignment, so...

[House]

Like I said, I won't hold my breath waiting for an objective analysis.

I'd hate to undermine the read you're so invested in maintaining regardless of the mountain of evidence that proves just how wrong you are.

[House]

Bottoms...

[House]

Up!

[House]

And for the record, the reason I'm such an ass as town is because I'm actually passionate about my play.

That is missing in my scum game. I've lost that spark.

Even in the distant past, I was personable as scum (most of the time), but that was just to avoid scumreads.

[House]

house, have you ever explained *why* you were townreading iv so strongly on day 1?

Nope.

then please explain. i see that you posted 4022, but "i relate to the mindset" doesn't explicitly mean you were townreading him for it.

No, it doesn't.

It explains why I fakeclaimed Masons to buy him time.

[House]

and before i'm hit with "why would house fakeclaim mason to stop the wagon on iv" -- he wasn't stopping the wagon on iv. this was called out at the time, but iv had just gotten a second vote, and a few people thought (i think skitter alongside me?) that the claim was very premature and that iv wasn't in that much danger. *especially* considering you had the loud motherfuckers like me and rtp calling for lapla's head.

This is a straight up lie.

iv's wagon was gaining steam as a counterwagon to Laplacian, and even frog, the one driving it, admitted that he wasn't going to let up on it.

[House]

(and also, i'm not sure i buy the "i didn't want to mislead town further, that's why i retracted my claim" because house clearly did not shy away from lying later in the game, and retracting the claim gives him more of an excuse for why the masons are not dying -- but this isn't a point that i can argue well enough, so.)

Yeah, that's because that's a vast universe of difference between lying about being a Mason and lying about being a vigilante.

Math lacks the balls to explain why I'd fakeclaim vig on d2 as scum. Perhaps you'd care to give it a go?

[House]

house, why the fuck would you out after one vote, what the fuck

I think it was okay, I wasn't going to let the case go on this one.

[House]

nobody at this table is stupid enough to go "hurr durr house claimed vig?? must be scum!!!".

And I'm not stupid enough to claim a role that gets me killed outright with no benefit to my team as scum.

Lying about being a vigilante made me a target to the real vig, true, but it also made me a target to scum.

It's the one claim that there's literally zero motive for scum to ever make because it draws the ire of the one towny in the game that can destroy them without majority consent.

[House]

I just find the explanation that house!town had a different view of the game state to be simpler, cleaner and more likely than house!scum decided to make up an imaginary crisis to fakeclaim mason to get towncred to shove his partner into a meatgrinder? Have you read his scum!games? I don't really see him making similar type of plays as mafia.

What dats is conveniently leaving out of that iv had already been a wagon of 4 once and still had plenty of suspicion on him and Fire was back to pushing it to counter Lapla.

[House]

Lying about being a vigilante made me a target to the real vig, true, but it also made me a target to scum.

the real vigilante is not stupid enough to see you as scum just because you fakeclaimed and would probably realize you're doing so in order to draw the kill; scum isn't gonna shoot themselves.

Fuck it. Let's do this.

VOTE: Datisi



Who do you think wins this, and who do you think never gets another vote when you flip red?