Mafiascum.net

Giant-ass VCA's are hard.

Sent a draft to Desp, so we're getting there.

I did reach a logical impossibility in my analysis for the first time ever, though, which was kind of cool.

Just gonna leave this, color-coded, for everyone, though (coloring from my PoV, with our inno on AP+his inno on BWS in purple and the vig claim in blue)...

In post 2975, Yulia Jue wrote:Votecount 1-31

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV

(2):

AngryPidgeon

,

Mac
MastinSSK

(1): CupcakePanda

Just Sheep Us

(5): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados,

Breakfast With Stalin

,

Rancid Broderick Drake, MastinSSK

, Kagura

AngryPidgeon

(1):

Lord Business
Rancid Broderick Drake

(6): CarbonFiber,

Just Sheep Us

,

PeregrineV

, The Fox and the Hound,

Yggdra Union

, Clyton
Not Voting (1): Titan

Okay, the neighborhood discussion isn't really going anywhere so I'll post this here. Nacho, I've been thinking about your play for a while and I feel quite sure that you are scum based on how you are approaching this game:

1) You as town generally have solid suspects and a direction to go to in a game. You are fairly certain in your scumreads and find scummy things about them as opposed to mere POE which you have been doing in this game.

2) Your passion comes in bursts when you are scum. It peaks and falls because even though you can replicate it, you can't consistently keep it up for extended periods of time as scum. As town, it comes much more naturally and your pushes also feel a lot more genuine and forceful like you really believe in your scumreads. This happened only once so far in this game with your push on Mastin but once Mastin flipped town, your passion evaporated and you fell back onto POE. You push Cupcake with little conviction simply being logical and reasonable about it rather than show true passion. You show no aggression elsewhere or genuinely attempt to solve the game beyond saying that these people are town and POEing the rest. There is no real push or scumhunting into the people you think are scum.

3) Your contribution to the game has been sorely lacking even accounting for time constraints. Your most memorable part in this game has been to show up mid-D1, call Mastin town, show up at deadline and derail a wagon on Rancid driving it onto Orc. Your contribution D2 has been the Mastin push. I remember you saying that you wouldn't blow your cover on someone that you can read unless you were sure about winning the 1v1. The timing of your Mastin attack definitely came at a time when you were assured victory.

Okay so, I'm trying to make sense of the claims.

What we know for sure:

Tree stump bulletproof
Gladiator
Role stooping bodyguard
Roleblocker who can come back to life
JOAT - powers unknown
Self-governing duel master
Janitoring VIG
Anti-roleblocker
Miller neighborizer

What's left as claimed:

Cop who submits three names for scum to choose from
Even night tracker with cop aspects
Amnesiac follower
Delayer

Night two: Brian and bello ffery claim to be blocked.

Now here's part of my problem. Does anyone think there's just a little too many investigative roles claimed? Also Brian says his role failed, which would suggest that it's also investigative of some sort, but one would think he'd be a bit wary of the investigative claims if he was, but I'm not too sure that he's been around during claim fest so I'd have to check. Also we apparently two roles who are unable to die, well apparently mastin couldn't die who knows what limitations are on nacho.

Let's say all the investigative roles are town, then I'd expect scum to have some pretty strong powers. No one has come forward to be a roleblocker, so I refuse to believe there's another town one.

Hmmm I don't think I've come to any conclusions, but something doesn't feel right. I mean I hope that cupcake is scum, I really do, or this town is screwed. Penguin keeps insisting he has to be, but it's not something I feel great about. Maybe if I could trust more people besides bellifery I'd be more confident in this and feel calmer but I don't. And so help me if the one person I trust turns out to be scum I just don't know what I'll do.

In post 6128, Tammy wrote:Okay so, I'm trying to make sense of the claims.

What we know for sure:

Tree stump bulletproof
Gladiator
Role stooping bodyguard
Roleblocker who can come back to life
JOAT - powers unknown
Self-governing duel master
Janitoring VIG
Anti-roleblocker
Miller neighborizer

What's left as claimed:

Cop who submits three names for scum to choose from
Even night tracker with cop aspects
Amnesiac follower
Delayer

Night two: Brian and bello ffery claim to be blocked.

Now here's part of my problem. Does anyone think there's just a little too many investigative roles claimed? Also Brian says his role failed, which would suggest that it's also investigative of some sort, but one would think he'd be a bit wary of the investigative claims if he was, but I'm not too sure that he's been around during claim fest so I'd have to check. Also we apparently two roles who are unable to die, well apparently mastin couldn't die who knows what limitations are on nacho.

Let's say all the investigative roles are town, then I'd expect scum to have some pretty strong powers. No one has come forward to be a roleblocker, so I refuse to believe there's another town one.

Hmmm I don't think I've come to any conclusions, but something doesn't feel right. I mean I hope that cupcake is scum, I really do, or this town is screwed. Penguin keeps insisting he has to be, but it's not something I feel great about. Maybe if I could trust more people besides bellifery I'd be more confident in this and feel calmer but I don't. And so help me if the one person I trust turns out to be scum I just don't know what I'll do.

Okay then.

Well, you can always decide to trust me if it makes things easier for you!

Also, I have serious concerns about Nacho. Not paranoia but feeling that he is more likely scum than not.

I don't mistrust you, I just have hesitations, probably paranoia based, that keep me from feeling solid.

I mean where's the Nacho from Z-Mafia who persistently pushed Wisdom, defended Baldeagle and RedCoyote, and pushed JasonT1981?

Where's the Nacho from Too Many Heads where he pushed the crap out of Tammy/Fish D1.

Where's the obvtown Nacho from BB:HoH who stampeded through the scumteam like a beast on steroids?

All I am seeing is controlled aggression, convenient and safe pushes and massive use of POE. He can't even find reasons to call Ceph and DV scum besides "everyone else is townier than you, so you could be scum."

I can see your point, but that's pretty much how I feel about my reads south of "town". This has been a very difficult game that I hope is on its way to being solved now.

In post 6127, CarbonFiber wrote:1) You as town generally have solid suspects and a direction to go to in a game. You are fairly certain in your scumreads and find scummy things about them as opposed to mere POE which you have been doing in this game.

I have solid suspects, I have a direction to go in this game. I'm extremely sure of my scumreads in this point in time: no, it isn't mere POE that's guiding my lynches at the moment but I'm not at all interested in fleshing out possibilities of Katsuki-town because I think they're useless roads. I am always the most talkative when I am either A) unsure of what I want to do, or B) see the town going off on a horrible path. Currently, these two things aren't happening.

In post 6127, CarbonFiber wrote:You push Cupcake with little conviction simply being logical and reasonable about it rather than show true passion. You show no aggression elsewhere or genuinely attempt to solve the game beyond saying that these people are town and POEing the rest. There is no real push or scumhunting into the people you think are scum.

There isn't a player who has shown significant aggression in this game day towards solving anything else, with possible exceptions in you and Tammy (because you had what you thought were incredible revelations of a strong townread being scum) and Fox (who hasn't done shit this game for years in a half and is finally, finally getting invested). DV knows what I'm saying when I tell him he needs to post more if he wants to become a strong townread: his lack of posting isn't scummy, but it leaves gaping holes in understanding his thought process when it happens whereas the strong townreads I have contain a full picture of their thoughts on the entire gamestate at any time.

In post 6127, CarbonFiber wrote:Your contribution to the game has been sorely lacking even accounting for time constraints. Your most memorable part in this game has been to show up mid-D1, call Mastin town, show up at deadline and derail a wagon on Rancid driving it onto Orc. Your contribution D2 has been the Mastin push.

I let bork take the reins for most of Day 1. This was when I was in my swing of serious time restraints, decided to dedicate a majority of my time elsewhere in games. Since I've shown up mid-Day 1, I've been fully invested and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Even today, where there's an obvious lynch that probably should have happened 5 days ago (but we're dragging out for the benefit of you, Tammy, Fox), I've still been a major player in the game day. I defused your hilarious paranoia slap fest, and I knock down whatever fucked up conspiracy theories that people bring up for Cupcake-scum.

In post 6132, CarbonFiber wrote:All I am seeing is controlled aggression, convenient and safe pushes and massive use of POE. He can't even find reasons to call Ceph and DV scum besides "everyone else is townier than you, so you could be scum."

And this is actually hilarious because I've been anything but controlled this game? You've seen my "controlled aggression" as scum from the type of view that comes very, very rarely: I haven't really let anyone in to a view of my scumgame like that with the sole exception of mastin (who got an extremely close look at my old scumgame). The differences aren't in consistency: I'm not a consistent person. I work long hours, I get drunk a lot, I act pretty fucking crazy at times. I can also put out a more detailed case on Fox and Hound tomorrow, since I'm going to be alive then and will be more willing to spend time actually sorting out the game?

Also, I kinda recognize this Nacho from Walking Dead. Which was a game he emulated pretty well reads-wise early on in Marketplace 3.

In post 6134, Nachomamma8 wrote:There isn't a player who has shown significant aggression in this game day towards solving anything else, with possible exceptions in you and Tammy (because you had what you thought were incredible revelations of a strong townread being scum) and Fox (who hasn't done shit this game for years in a half and is finally, finally getting invested). DV knows what I'm saying when I tell him he needs to post more if he wants to become a strong townread: his lack of posting isn't scummy, but it leaves gaping holes in understanding his thought process when it happens whereas the strong townreads I have contain a full picture of their thoughts on the entire gamestate at any time.

I am talking about you, not other players. Everytime I've seen you be obvtown, it is always the sheer at catching scum that I feel is lacking here. There is no energy or enthusiasm coming from you. You really never showed any inclination to sort Penguin who seems to be somewhat null to you. You didn't interact with Mara at all when her slot is supposedly a scumread to see where she is coming from and talking to her. I don't see you talking to Fox waiting to see if it is a push you want to see through or if they can convince you that they are town.

In post 6134, Nachomamma8 wrote:I let bork take the reins for most of Day 1. This was when I was in my swing of serious time restraints, decided to dedicate a majority of my time elsewhere in games. Since I've shown up mid-Day 1, I've been fully invested and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Even today, where there's an obvious lynch that probably should have happened 5 days ago (but we're dragging out for the benefit of you, Tammy, Fox), I've still been a major player in the game day. I defused your hilarious paranoia slap fest, and I knock down whatever fucked up conspiracy theories that people bring up for Cupcake-scum.

You always play the mediator as scum too so you didn't really have any other choice on how to approach Tammy's and my mutual paranoia. You knew it would end the way it did and if you had reacted in any other way (by pushing one of us for instance), it would have exposed you as scum. I am not seeing it as alignment indicative although I did like you getting me into the neighborhood to talk about it.

Where's the Nacho reads list with reasons attached by the way? I want to know why you are reading players the way you are beyond agreeing with Desp.

In post 6134, Nachomamma8 wrote:And this is actually hilarious because I've been anything but controlled this game? You've seen my "controlled aggression" as scum from the type of view that comes very, very rarely: I haven't really let anyone in to a view of my scumgame like that with the sole exception of mastin (who got an extremely close look at my old scumgame). The differences aren't in consistency: I'm not a consistent person. I work long hours, I get drunk a lot, I act pretty fucking crazy at times. I can also put out a more detailed case on Fox and Hound tomorrow, since I'm going to be alive then and will be more willing to spend time actually sorting out the game?

I can see the differences between your pushes on Mina in Wicked and Mastin here but your push on me in the Mentor-Mentee game was pretty no-holds barred as well as your push on Bulbazak in There is No Doctor.

You waited a really long time to push on Mastin and it came at a time when the lynch was very, very likely and just needed a little extra push to see it through. You cited Mastin's posts reminding you of your own in NY169 for you changing your mind in the neighborhood which isn't really a strong reason. Your early posts D3 also had no pushes, no scumreads until the issue of Katsuki vs AP came up.

In post 6134, Nachomamma8 wrote: I'm not a consistent person. I work long hours, I get drunk a lot, I act pretty fucking crazy at times.

Hey! Stop impersonating me!

Noprodhere

Flying solo for a week, will catch up when I get home cuz fuck reading this shit on my phone

I will be here and I will hold you to that.

TICK TOCK MARA

In post 6143, fferyllt wrote:TICK TOCK MARA

:/

In post 3057, Just Sheep Us wrote:

our role is garbage anyway. we are lynching in {just sheep us, rbd, mastin} today and that is the fucking end of it

Ok, what is this? Your claimed role is quite clearly not garbage and while town are obviously not going to be truthful about everything, why would you say something completely opposite from what's true. And what makes me even more ??? is that you're presenting yourselves as a lynch option shortly before deadline when the town's already in chaos. If you don't actually think you're going to be lynched and it's just words to look good, then hello scum. If you actually think you could be lynched, then why say this if your role is what you claim it to be? So that you can claim and plunge the town into even further chaos?

hi guys

your friendly neighborhood spiderman here

don't do drugs kids

I haven't read in 100 pages and I wasn't even fully caught up then

So

lucky meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Beliffery you have about 1 post to explain to me why you're on that terrible wagon before I decide I was wrong in my read on you

Nacho you have 0 posts because you're always scum

JSU gets 1 post too

In other news I think I'll shock everyone and

VOTE: nacho

I still feel confident in Fox and Hound town as well as Titan. I'll post the work I had done before rl decided I'm not allowed to have fun

btw the wagon is terrible because

1) Katsuki is selfvoting

2) Nacho is on it

(Disclaimer: If Nacho selfvotes and Katsuki votes nacho this does not apply)

In post 5951, AngryPidgeon wrote:snip

Let's get one thing clear

You do not mislynch town ns

You do not even suggest town ns is scum

You do not even suggest town ns is anything but 100% pure organic homegrown town

I flaked on the site because I had(ve) this mondo project that I've been working on. Only reason I'm here this weekend is because I had a draft submitted that I'm waiting to get back.

Also, I'm going to talk about the AP/Mastin dynamic from earlier in this thread later

I'm going to read through Nacho/Kagura now.