Mini 769 - RISK Mafia: abandoned


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:23 am

Post by Slicey »

I honestly can't figure out how it's town to attack the claimed survivor just because he's attacking you. Attacking him won't bring us any closer to finding scum.
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:24 am

Post by TDC »

Either way, I don't see how it would justify you attacking him.
What I mean is, if anyone was following his call, then it would make much more sense to attack that guy, rather than MM.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:39 am

Post by MonkeyMan576 »

Slicey wrote:I honestly can't figure out how it's town to attack the claimed survivor just because he's attacking you. Attacking him won't bring us any closer to finding scum.
Because he's not worried about attacking scum, because he's not town. Duh.
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:49 am

Post by Slicey »

MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Slicey wrote:I honestly can't figure out how it's town to attack the claimed survivor just because he's attacking you. Attacking him won't bring us any closer to finding scum.
Because he's not worried about attacking scum, because he's not town. Duh.
Well yeah. >_> I don't even see how it can be considered town though. I'd vote Kast but I'm not bordering him.
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:24 pm

Post by Kast »

@TDC-
-I'm sure you can see the difference between the town as a whole agreeing to a strategy and asking a single player to be bound by a strategy that nobody else is following.

-Whether I was a confirmed roleblocker has no bearing on the point. Killing the territory that is going to attack me is equivalent to roleblocking him. If you think I can't do it, then there is no point to your complaint. If you think I can, then you acknowledge that I am that roleblocker.

-If multiple players were attacking me, I would attack the player who is the strategically best target for maintaining my position. As MM is the only person attacking me, it would be extremely stupid to attack anyone other than him and just let him make me weaker.

Your implication that I would still be attacking MM if he had convinced someone else to attack me is a baseless straw man.

@Slicey-
-False dilemma. Why do you assume I must attack someone this turn? If MM removes his vote, then I will remove mine.

-It is fallacious to claim that attacking someone who is not scum is anti-town or scummy. This is almost identical to attacking an unknown player or even a strongly suspected townie to complete a continent or secure a defensive point. This is actually better than either of the previous scenarios since I am guaranteed to not be weakening other townies.

-Why are you voting for inHimshallibe? How does that bring us closer to finding scum? You have given no reasons for your attack or reasons for suspecting inHimshallibe.

If you are just "playing the RISK game" and think it puts you in a strategically better position, then you are being a hypocrite.

-Strategically, this is the right move even since MM has made it clear that he will attack me.

@MM-
-That makes no sense. If we extend that simplistic way of thinking, then hey, Kast as scum attacking MM obviously isn't worried about attacking town, so he must be some third party role. Since this is an open role game, then that doesn't work.

If we back up a step, MM the independent survivor is engaging in suboptimal play that is anti-town and forcing Kast to react in a way that is the best course of action for the town, based on MM's actions, but not the ideal course of action for the town (which would require MM to actually play as an independent and to his win condition).
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:48 pm

Post by TDC »

Kast wrote:I'm sure you can see the difference between the town as a whole agreeing to a strategy and asking a single player to be bound by a strategy that nobody else is following.
Again, when was this actually discussed?
-Whether I was a confirmed roleblocker has no bearing on the point. Killing the territory that is going to attack me is equivalent to roleblocking him. If you think I can't do it, then there is no point to your complaint. If you think I can, then you acknowledge that I am that roleblocker.
Uhm, no, because he's not any more a Vig than everybody else in this game.
Your scenario implies that you die if you don't "block him", which is clearly not the case. Far from it, in fact.
If multiple players were attacking me, I would attack the player who is the strategically best target for maintaining my position. As MM is the only person attacking me, it would be extremely stupid to attack anyone other than him and just let him make me weaker.

Your implication that I would still be attacking MM if he had convinced someone else to attack me is a baseless straw man.
But you're not ruling out that you might still attack MM either.
Furthermore this
MM has clearly and repeatedly called for others to join his attack on me, so no it is not just about MM attacking me.
is what suggested to me that you'd still be attacking him.
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:49 pm

Post by TDC »

FWIW I think MM's play is suboptimal for his win condition, but not particularly anti-town.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:56 pm

Post by MonkeyMan576 »

Kast wrote: @MM-
-That makes no sense. If we extend that simplistic way of thinking, then hey, Kast as scum attacking MM obviously isn't worried about attacking town, so he must be some third party role. Since this is an open role game, then that doesn't work.

If we back up a step, MM the independent survivor is engaging in suboptimal play that is anti-town and forcing Kast to react in a way that is the best course of action for the town, based on MM's actions, but not the ideal course of action for the town (which would require MM to actually play as an independent and to his win condition).
All of your hypothesis are always based on the assumption that you're town, which most of us disagree with at this point I think. You're not forced to react to me. If you would talk to us about what your next step is, or not attack a pro-town player, or volunteer to give up Australia, or do any number of pro-town things, then it might strengthen your case, but as it is, getting you out of the game is obviously the best course of action for the town at this point. Even if you were town, which I strongly doubt, the possibility of you being scum, however minute or strong it might be, makes it a bad idea for one player to be insanely powerful, and to have all the town's chances for success based on that one player before we can make more accurate judgements on alignement.
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:50 pm

Post by Kast »

@TDC-
-Initial plan proposal on D1.

-If I just let MM attack me and do nothing, then yes, I will be eliminated. In the short term, he approaches closer to my continent. In the long term he breaks my power base then eliminates me.

-You take a lot of liberties in your interpretation of my post. Nowhere in there do I say anything about what I will do if other people are attacking me. It was a direct response to your claim that I'm mistaken when I said MM is attacking me, calling others to attack me, and promoting an anti-town strategy of constantly eliminating the most powerful player.

@MM-
-Reading fail. In the example you quoted, the assumption is that Kast is scum. If Kast is mafia, then attacking the Survivor shows that he doesn't care about attacking town. This, by your logic, means Kast cannot be mafia.

Regardless of Kast's alignment, if MM the independent survivor decides to adopt the suboptimal play of attacking Kast, then Kast's optimal response is to attack back. This makes no assumptions about my affiliation.

-I am looking at the entire picture. You are fear-mongering by only looking at one unlikely scenario but attempting to emphasize the potential danger of that unlikely scenario.

-Lol, at giving up Australia. I suppose you think it would be best to hand it over to the only confirmed player in the game?

-How do you propose that we make accurate judgments of alignment? If you can find a guaranteed way to show that a player other than me is 100% town, then I'll entertain your joke about handing over Australia.

-Who are "most of us"? MM and Slicey claim to think I am scum with reasons being "Kast is too strong." Slicey has even admitted that he thinks my play is pro-town and I am probably a townie, but can't take the risk that I am scum. TDC has carefully avoided commenting on what he thinks my alignment is. Nobody else is posting.
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:12 pm

Post by Slicey »

I'm attacking InHim because I am in fact playing RISK. But I'm not a hypocrite because I'm not attacking a player who is confirmed NOT SCUM.

Hell, I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue with you, because you're just going to say I'm wrong and you're right anyway.
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:54 pm

Post by rajrhcpfreak »

End of the Day Vote Count



Slicey 2 : inHimshallibe, Budja,
MonkeyMan576 2 : Kast, Kast,
Kast 1 : MonkeyMan576
inHimshallibe 1 : Slicey,
orangepenguin 0 :
Kieraen 0 :
Primate 0 :
Budja 0 :
Green Crayons 0 :
TDC 0 :
Xtoxm 0 :
No Lynch 0 :

Not Voting 6 : Green Crayons, Primate, TDC, Xtoxm, Kieraen, orangepenguin

7 for a majority
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:42 pm

Post by rajrhcpfreak »

Day:


There is 11 players, Kast has a three votes. budja has two votes.
So we will have a shot clock for July 31st in the afternoon (6pm est).
14 votes means 8 votes for a lynch.

people were complaining about a week being to long. but its over a weekend and this is still mafia.
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:44 pm

Post by Budja »

I took Slicey in East Africa.
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:57 pm

Post by Slicey »

You did you jerk. >_>
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:43 am

Post by Green Crayons »

Didn't do a damn thing.


Who is everyone's biggest suspicion?
"This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent." In re Davis, 557 U.S. 952, 955 (2009) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:41 pm

Post by Slicey »

Kast.
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:48 am

Post by TDC »

Kast: Can you update the map? I see that you've taken Japan and Mongolia.
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:02 am

Post by Kast »

Yeah, I'll update tonight. Any other changes?

Also, advance warning I'm not planning to attack anyone today, but that will change if I am threatened.
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:40 pm

Post by Budja »

I think it would be good to have more powers in the game besides Kast.

Currently, a scum Kast would be enormously powerful. If players start to build alternate powers, then we will have more control over the game.
I am (still) intending to eventually control Africa. If other players would try to take control of other regions rather than just sitting there disjointed, we will have a much greater chance of winning,

I don't have a scum reading on Kast but I don't see him as town either and I am uncomfortable with allowing him sole power.
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:17 pm

Post by Kast »

@Budja-
So...you're essentially telling everyone else to attack me but excusing yourself from having to do it?

I do agree that townies should be trying to build their own power bases instead of just sitting around.
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:26 pm

Post by Budja »

Don't misrep me.
I am encouraging others to gain power, not to kill you,

Basically, divided we fall.
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:36 pm

Post by Kast »

Here's the map.
Image

I dunno if Slicey succeeded in his attack against inHimshallibe. Obviously, inHimshallibe didn't eliminate Slicey.

I hope the lurkers are still playing and not completely inactive. It would kinda suck for town if our primary advantage is going completely to waste due to inactives. Some replacements would be nice if people have completely abandoned the game.
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:36 am

Post by Slicey »

I didn't even get to attack for some weird reason. >_> Isn't my spot bordering InHim's?
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:36 am

Post by Slicey »

Vote: Kieran
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Kast »

@Slicey-
-Is there a reason you wanted to attack inHimshallibe last turn but no longer wish to do so today?
-It would seem more prudent to sit and stack your armies. Attacking makes you extremely vulnerable to elimination. Do you have some reason to feel that you can safely attack while bordered by at least two players who attacked you last round?
-Are you abandoning Africa for Budja to take over?
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