Mini 780 - Chosen - Game over


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:44 am

Post by Incognito »

Vote Count #4 of Day 4


Jahudo (1) <-~ Ojanen

Not voting (2) <-~ Jahudo, Lord Gurgi

With 3 living, 2 will do it.

Deadline (5 days) wrote:
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:45 am

Post by Ojanen »

Jahudo wrote:You only just noticed the tajo connection now? That doesn't make sense because you've tossed out this quote three times now:
ekiM wrote:I've seen two things why I'm not. Firstly that I didn't get voted D1 at all.
This is silly, scum wouldn't go after the Chosen D1 if there was no case, and there wasn't.
Secondly that nobody pushed for my lynch since then. Well, there's only one scum left and they can't make a lynch by themselves, so if there wasn't much to push on me they'd probably wait for someone else to suspect me, or for people to get the idea to lynch not-Chosens and use the lack of suspicion to paint me that way.
I also note that hp "randomly" voted me early yesterday[day 2], and then made encouraging noises while Tajo was suspecting me...
And you've underlined that part about Tajo suspecting him back when ekiM was in the game. So why didn't you point out Tajo in the case before?

That is strange, but I don't see how it changes our setup.
I only reread day 2 now.
I just hadn't consciously thought about the significance of him getting nightkilled regards the situation of us final 3. I remembered Tajo's suspicion as much more vague, didn't remember he voted Mike. Also I didn't remember how Tajo was defending me and hp.

You waiting before you vote is a further position making sense as scum after you've concluded you're not the CO.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:29 am

Post by Jahudo »

I'm having second thoughts only because you're considering me scum. All the facts make sense for me too, but I don't understand how we have different conclusions about people's roles.

You don't sound like you have two ways to win the game, just one.
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:27 am

Post by Ojanen »

Jahudo wrote:I'm having second thoughts only because you're considering me scum. All the facts make sense for me too, but I don't understand how we have different conclusions about people's roles.

You don't sound like you have two ways to win the game, just one.
Lol. Yay for vague accusations.

How can you not understand it? Your axiom is based on what you claim to know from your role pm, scum must be Gurgi or I and that's what your arguments are about. My axiom is that scum must be Gurgi or you.
If you look at the pattern of suspicions between all of our predecessors and Law and nightkills, you fit miles and miles better than Gurgi (or I) in the hole of scum-with-Lawrence-lynchee-one-of-the-other-two. You fit not at all in the CO hole.

I think Gurgi should in no circumstances self-hammer after your suspicion. I will not vote him. Self-hammering would be dangerous also for me since Law and Mike went after both of us and although your initial opinion was anti-hp, you're showing signs of a vague shift here.
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:37 am

Post by Ojanen »

Jahudo wrote:All the facts make sense for me too, but I don't understand how we have different conclusions about people's roles.
Also, this sentence is highly contradictory.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:42 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Jahudo: Why aren't you cross-voting?

Ojanen: Why are you so against me killing myself? You know I can do it without you, right?
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:12 am

Post by Ojanen »

Lord Gurgi wrote:Ojanen: Why are you so against me killing myself? You know I can do it without you, right?
Because I believe there's a considerable chance you're the chosen one, obviously. It's not simple to tell with certainty which one of us it is, it's easy to tell it isn't Jahudo.
You can obviously think on your own and hammer yourself if you consider it wise. I said my opinion aloud because Jahudo questioned my position. I think what I said is kind of self-evident.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:22 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Rereading ABR might be worth a go. He died night three, and he was the biggest proponent for an Ojanen lynch, as well as least likely to follow the Nuwen plan. I lived and I was most likely to follow the Nuwen plan.

Ojanen?
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:55 am

Post by Ojanen »

Lord Gurgi wrote: Ojanen?
Yes?
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:05 am

Post by Ojanen »

While we're at it, Gurgi what do you think about the Tajo nightkill regards to Mike/Jahudo being the chosen one?
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:51 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

I was just insinuating that you killed ABR to shut him up and keep the plan going smoothly. If ekiM was scum, as you are so sure he is, what was his motivation for killing ABR? ABR was the single person most likely to diverge from the plan that meant he was going to die and the strongest proponent for your lynch.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:52 am

Post by Jahudo »

Ojando had the most to gain from a ABR death. Albert said either ekim or him was the CO.

That evidences looks as good as Ojando's explanation of the tajo kill, so I think both of these scenarios are still possible:
jah town / LG scum / Ojan CO
jah CO / LG town / Ojan scum

I know Ojando doesn't believe either scenario, but he would have reason to vote me in both of mine. That's why I'm starting to be concerned of his alignment.

As it stands I would vote Ojando before me, but after LG.
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:26 am

Post by Ojanen »

My name is Ojanen.
LG wrote:ABR was the single person most likely to diverge from the plan that meant he was going to die and the strongest proponent for your lynch.
How is this apparent?
Meta or what?
Ojanen 526 wrote:ABR, you cool with lynching ekiM/you tomorrow?
ABR 527 wrote:Yah.
Nuwen 539 wrote:Lynch Mike and ABR, guys. Don't deviate.
LG 540 wrote:Mike first?
Nuwen 541 wrote:Indeed.
Also, your entrance to the game:
LG wrote:Hi, this is your Chosen checking in.
I am confused as to why people think Ace is town, since the defense for him seems to boil down to so-bad-he-must-be-town.
I snipped away the rest since it was an attack on me about you being my chosen and you disowned it after I pointed out the problem of it.

I don't see a huge apparent difference between your and ABR's positions.
I see a difference in your and ABR's positions on the Law wagon; Albert was one of the turn-around voters while hp was the hammer without a lot of previous suspicion. The people who have gotten nightkilled have been the ones that were turning round the wagon (Claus, Tajo, ABR)
Also hp was/is a much more likely looking CO so much more nebulous endgame entity even if you weren't the real deal.

During the night I was actually expecting a no-kill and was a little surprised by the result.
Jahudo wrote:Also I don't self-vote if I can help it. It's just principle.
LG, in the context of this game and just after having said he was probably VT, don't you find this incredibly scummy?
It's an arbitrary and even possibly anti-town principle in this game - a phrase brought from normal games where win conditions are different.
After that and I stress the word after, Jahudo searched for justification for not self voting and now has claimed one.
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:39 am

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:
AceMarksman wrote:Here's what I think happened here. First, I think law and ABR are scum together. Second, to avoid them getting lynched, ABR put together a "do not lynch" list including the two scum and two townies. Third, there isn't a third.

Thoughts on this?
Waitaminute!

This looks like scum setting up a mislynch!

Vote AceMarksman


This one was so obvious haha GG SCUM
Albert B. Rampage wrote:You blasphemous fool! Your scumbuddy is Lawrencelot. You made a pitiful attempt at connecting him to me in the eventuality of his death. In addition, I'm not following anyone! spring least of all since I am most suspicious of her after yourself and Nuwen. The evidence you have brought to our hearth has been more damning of you than anyone else. Die now, heretic!
Albert B. Rampage wrote:lol Ace is scum. So obvious.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Vote Ace
Albert B. Rampage wrote:I was suspicious of her. The low risk of her being Chosen and mildly scummy behavior made her a good lynch candidate.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Please kill Ace. The chances he is Chosen is close to 0%, and he's the most logical partner of Lawrencelot.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Come on, hurry up and vote for me or Ace.
Do you think you are Chosen?

ABR is the best known lunatic on the forums. If you don't realise that by now, then you haven't been reading what he's posted.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:46 am

Post by Ojanen »

Hmm. Makes sense. Drops my chances of being chosen.

Can you answer to the last paragraph of my previous post?
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:13 pm

Post by Lord Gurgi »

I don't see unwillingness to self-hammer as scummy. It fits Jahudo's personality. It doesn't matter what his alignment is, he'd rather not.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:23 pm

Post by Ojanen »

This is frustrating.
In this game a vanilla self-hammering plays perfectly to their winning condition. What kind of personality trait do you mean?
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:37 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Lord Gurgi wrote:Jahudo: Why aren't you cross-voting?
Was this a trap question btw?
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:04 pm

Post by Jahudo »

I retracted that statement once I remembered this setup was unique. In a normal mafia game I hate self-voting done by anyone.
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by Lord Gurgi »

I'm obv trapping at this late stage. It was an honest question. You're just being annoying at this point.

So, Jahudo, are you going to self-hammer or are you going to vote for Ojanen?
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:22 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Jahudo wrote:I retracted that statement once I remembered this setup was unique. In a normal mafia game I hate self-voting done by anyone.
I fail to see the retractment, quote please?
LG wrote:I'm obv trapping at this late stage. It was an honest question. You're just being annoying at this point.
I assume typo in obv not.

In that case, LG, I don't understand you.
I don't understand how his first choice could be voting me without exposing his actions as illogical.
I don't understand what's annoying about my question. :?
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:31 pm

Post by Jahudo »

Here's my retraction:
Jahudo wrote:Doh. I just realized scum is not going to hammer me, so I'll just wait to see if LG has anything else to say before I vote.
I'm sticking with my gut and earlier read that LG is the best choice. I'll vote now and see who I have to convince next.

Vote: Lord Gurgi
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:42 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Ok, I'm stupid. Misinterpreted the retraction sentence.
With that, if I had a CO it couldn't be LG which is now confirmed.
Good night.
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:53 pm

Post by Lord Gurgi »

Oh, that's good. Then do we lynch you Ojanen? Since you think he's scum, and I must be his CO, you must be VT, so we lynch you from your point of view.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:12 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Here's the deal:
I subjectively know for certain that I'm voting right now one of the people that lead to a town win.
Gurgi, your call. You choose the least likely chosen and/or most likely mafioso in your opinion. If you vote me and Jahudo doesn't hammer, I'll hammer myself. I won't hammer spontaneously.
Also, me asking many questions was probably socially inept and thus counterproductive. I'll stop doing that. I'll answer if you have questions.
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