The Return to Liten (Game Over)

[LimMePls]

That is a second suboptimal kill from Thad, and the second time he hasn't shot NC even though he is the obvious shot.

@Thad: Why aren't you shooting NC? Why did you shoot UT over the other choices?

Vote: Nero Cain

[Nero Cain]

That is a second suboptimal kill from Thad, and the second time he hasn't shot NC even though he is the obvious shot.

And why isn't Thor a good shot?

vote: Thor

if he flips scum we should look at MOI.

[LimMePls]

Well, I mention you because you were a good shot N1 and N2, and both times he went with what I think is a suboptimal shot.

[Slaxx]

Not only suboptimal, but bad.

[SaintKerrigan]

In case anyone's wondering why flavor is going slow (again), there's a fair bit of Arkonese in the Day 2 lynch scene...

[Thor665]

Not only suboptimal, but bad.

Are you suggesting he is someone who needs to be lynched or are you just bemoaning his actions?

Vote: apathyplusCUPCAKES

Him, Nero, myself, and Furry were the only ones who didn't vote to lynch SO who are still alive, and all the others were town. I can't imagine Feysal was the only scum who didn't get on the SO wagon. I'm town and I think Furry and NC are as well. Ipso facto.

[Slaxx]

I think we should be more...clear...about who needs to be vigged today. Come to a consensus as a town. Then suggest he vig that person. And he will do it, or else.

Dana and UT were both competing wagons day 1 and were pretty bad "vig shots".

[ThAdmiral]

That is a second suboptimal kill from Thad

Not only suboptimal, but bad.

Oh boo hiss.
The killing industry is tough to succeed in. And it's very easy to criticize.

I had a change of heart re: nero cain.

I believe he and thor are town.

vote: apathypluscupcakes

[Slaxx]

Yeah, the sarcastic comments aren't funny or an adequate defense anymore.

We're voting on who you kill today, and you're killing that person.

[SaintKerrigan]

All flavor for Day 2 has been added in. I'm going to pause on my flavor catchup, because my mind is thoroughly burned out.

[LimMePls]

I had a change of heart re: nero cain.

I believe he and thor are town.

Enlighten the rest of us?

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah, the sarcastic comments aren't funny or an adequate defense anymore.

We're voting on who you kill today, and you're killing that person.

I accept, but I do feel hard done by. I feel they were a decent chance of being scum and they weren't. There's no need to harp on about how crap I am when it could just as easily gone the other way in a different game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The problem, ThAdmiral, is that if you're an SK, you want the mafia to keep surviving for a while since we'll lynch you once we've killed the mafia. I don't trust you to kill the people you genuinely find suspicious, so I want you to just follow the town and kill consensus picks.

[Slaxx]

That's cool, and if you are vig, I am sorry I offended you.

But those kills are pushing it, thats all I am saying man.

Seriously, if you are vig, sorry.

[ThAdmiral]

The problem, ThAdmiral, is that if you're an SK, you want the mafia to keep surviving for a while since we'll lynch you once we've killed the mafia. I don't trust you to kill the people you genuinely find suspicious, so I want you to just follow the town and kill consensus picks.

Fair enough.

That's cool, and if you are vig, I am sorry I offended you.

But those kills are pushing it, thats all I am saying man.

Seriously, if you are vig, sorry.

No, I understand. But I just want you to know that as disappointed as you are with my picks, you will never be as disappointed as I am about them.

[HackerHuck]

I didn't think that the Tripod kill was such a bad idea, but CES is right. With the possibility that ThAd is an SK, there's probably less risk from making his choices known than from him trying to avoid hitting scum.

Thor and ThAd -why do you think that Nero is town?

[Thor665]

@Hacker - I already presented my case such as it is, I'll (p)add that his lurking play and antsy attitude towards the SO lynch help. Also I think his case on MoI was pretty unfair.

[HackerHuck]

@Hacker - I already presented my case such as it is, I'll (p)add that his lurking play and antsy attitude towards the SO lynch help. Also I think his case on MoI was pretty unfair.

I got why you think that Cupcakes is scum, but why do you think that Nero is town? The only thing I've got is that he's likely newbie town, not newbie scum.

[Thor665]

I just can't foresee any scum actually advancing cases like he is. He presents a case, has *other players* attack the case, and he keeps pressing. He's obviously newbie, so if he's newbie scum do you think he's keeping a bull-headed press of a case on a player when it's getting people to suspect him? I wouldn't. He keeps pressing me because he thinks he's *right* and that's town.

[Twomz]

Day 1
(10)

Square Obscure

: AlmasterGM, LynchMePlz,

Untrod Tripod

, Slaxx,

ThAdmiral

, MagnaofIllusion, HackerHuck, Twomz, Cogito Ergo Sum,

Nikanor

(3)

Untrod Tripod

:

danakillsu

,

Square Obscure

, Thor665
(2) Nero Cain: Furry,

SpyreX

(1)

danakillsu

: apathyplusCUPCAKES
(1) MagnaofIllusion: Nero Cain

Not Voting:

Feysal

Day 2
(8)

Feysal

:

SpryeX

, Furry, HackerHuck, Cogito Ergo Sum, apathyplusCUPCAKES, Slaxx, MagnaofIllusion, Twomz

Not Voting:

ThAdmiral

, AlmasterGM, LynchMePls,

Untrod Tripod

, Thor665,

Feysal

, Nero Cain


1) People on SO who weren't on Feysal: AlmasterGM, LynchMePls, ThAd. ThAd is confirmed as either Vig or SK, so he couldn't be scum buddies with either and at least in my opinion, the way that Almaster and LMP started up the SO wagon doesn't appear like bussing to me. Almaster needs to pick up the pace with posting, but I doubt any of these three are mafia.

2) People on Feysal who weren't on SO: Apathy and Furry. Furry's actions don't really seem too scummy, and Apathy's vote isn't too scummy either (only real contribution so far is pointing at MoI's vote hoping Day 1... but it was Day 1 so meh to that) although like Almaster, they need to pick up the posting some.

3) People on both lynches: Slaxx, HackerHuck, MoI, me and CES. Double bussing is unlikely, but I'll go ahead and say I've done it before (then again, I've bussed all my scummates back to back in a game before so meh). For the most part I won't be looking at the others on this list as possible scum suspects for now.

4) People on neither lynches: Thor and Nero Cain. Most of Thor's posts make sense and he admitted to the Tripod 'counterwagon' to SO, this is either him just having a bad gut as town or being crafty scum. NC appears to be either a VI or newb scum, so either we lynch him today or we force ThAd to kill him tonight (if he's scum, the mafia has lost it's mafia doc so the kill should go through, if he's not scum we don't waste a lynch on a VI, win/win!).

I'd be willing to vote Apathy, Thor or NC at this point, for reasons stated above. I think I will

vote: Thor

for now, I think his lynch would net us the most info and him attempting to deflect SO's wagon makes more sense than other options as well (at least to me).

[apathyplusCUPCAKES]

Checking in.

Crazy weekend, now buried in stuff that wasn't done during said weekend.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And why isn't Thor a good shot?

For one thing Thor hasn’t been on either lynch and he is definitely not shy about bussing. See Nik’s recently ended Reboot Mafia if you want direct proof of that.

I had a change of heart re: nero cain.

I believe he and thor are town.

vote: apathypluscupcakes

Here’s my question … since you obviously think APCakes is scum based on this vote to start the Day why didn’t you shoot him over Untrod?

The problem, ThAdmiral, is that if you're an SK, you want the mafia to keep surviving for a while since we'll lynch you once we've killed the mafia.

A well reasoned point. But I do have a question CES – did you find Untrod sufficiently Town that he should have been on you ABSOLUTELY NOT list?

@Twomz

– In reading your mini-VC analysis I’m struck by the following thought – you’ve managed to say pretty much nothing about most of the players in the game.

From Category 1 – Admiral is either a Vig or SK (which is obv at this point) and AGM and LMP didn’t bus SO.

From Category 2 – Furry doesn’t seem scummy and APCakes likely didn’t bus.

From Category 3 – You aren’t going to look at anyone on the list because double bussing is unlikely, yet immediately undermine your own statement by saying you’ve done it yourself.

In effect you’ve completely eliminated anyone from bussing in your analysis. And not a single person looks scummy.

Category 4 – Thor’s posting looks logical and he admits to trying to start a counterwagon to a scumbag. This means he’s either Town or Scum. No commitment at all. Nero is either a VI or newb scum so we should either lynch him or shoot him. Better yet we should have Admiral shoot him so we don’t waste a lynch on a potential VI. You again don’t commit to a side at all.

In summary a complete list of every player in the game and not a single person who you commit to as likely Mafia. You then say you’d vote for Thor, Nero or ApCakes based on your reasoning stated. What reasons are those? That Thor looks logical and was open about starting a counterwagon? That Nero might or might not be scum. That ApCakes is a lurker?

VOTE: Twomz. That large wall of say-nothing earns you a vote. I’ll be going back to look over your Day 1 and Day 2 to see if there is anything else worth saying.

[Furry]

hmrbph...

Well, I still like APC as leaning town given his reaction yesterday, it was reaction fishing mostly and I think he displayed an amazingly strong town tell in going "dammnit heres what I have so far". As scum, why would you ever put that up? Or at least put it up as fast as APC did here. That move moved him towards town quite a bit.

Thad I think is SK at this point. His kills have been horrid. Dana was one of my better town reads for the first day, and UT wasnt that scummy I still say. Just not getting a town read off of those kills.

Anyway, Im currently running around between CES, Thor, Twomz, NC and massive gut read of Slaxx that needs exploration. Something about his play is really rubbing me wrong.

@Slaxx - Why are you voting Thor over NC?

I just am still floored at the UT kill. He was one of the most likely to be town based off SOs action alone, Feysal just supported that. Almost to the point where I advocate a lynch of the Thad.

Then again im not as sure on Twomz, I get quite a few scum tells of him, but some of his interactions with the dead make me think town.

Need to do some thinking at this point. Just really really frustrated that there is no dead NC/Thor since those two are basically esential alignments to know.

Vote CES

He still reads scum. Asking Thad to claim kills pre-vig (note scum had doctor). Jump on SO (also first mention) post BP-claim due to flavor. More pushing for vig-SK to kill precalled targets. I dunno though, feel like I need someone to sheep right now. My classes are completely killing me for the moment so time is not that readily available.

[Slaxx]

Idk, Ive only read everything here once due to time constraints, but I'm not anymore, mainly due to the people on his wagon.

unvote

I'm sorry I am triggering your gut so much. It might be because I was so passionate about the last game we played together but apathetic about this one.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Day 1
(10)

Square Obscure

: AlmasterGM, LynchMePlz,

Untrod Tripod

, Slaxx, ThAdmiral, MagnaofIllusion, HackerHuck, Twomz, Cogito Ergo Sum,

Nikanor

(3)

Untrod Tripod

:

danakillsu

,

Square Obscure

, Thor665
(2) Nero Cain: Furry,

SpyreX

(1)

danakillsu

: apathyplusCUPCAKES
(1) MagnaofIllusion: Nero Cain

(1) Not Voting:

Feysal

I swiped this from Twomz post as I don’t have time tonight for a full VC-Analysis.

Players of unknown alignment (to me at least) on the SquareOb lynch (Admiral is considered Non-Mafia for this purpose) – AGM, LMP, Slaxx, Hacker, Twomz, CES

Players of unknown alignment off the SquareOb lynch – Thor, Furry, APCakes, NeroCain

Number of players starting the game – 18. A normal 25 to 33% percent scum distribution means likely 5 to 6 total scum. So number of unknown Mafia should be expected to fall between 2 (Admiral is SK) to 4 (Admiral is Town Vig).

First things first – Thor’s placement on the Untrod wagon with SquareOb should settle the issue that he isn’t likely scum. I highly doubt he’d be found sitting with a scum-buddy on an end-of-Day alternate wagon if said buddy was going to be the lynch.

That leaves Furry, APCakes and NeroCain in the pool for scum. If Admiral is a Serial Killer at most there is likely 1 scum here. If Admiral is Town perhaps two might be hiding here. As I’ve expressed before I’d solidly lean at APCakes or Nero over Furry. Especially given their votes are basically single stragglers.

So we can expect at least 1 or 2 scum are going be found on the SquareOb wagon. A quick review of those ISO would lead me to think AGM, Slaxx, Twomz and CES would be the most likely to be bussing.

More in-depth tomorrow or Wednesday.