Mafiascum.net

zzzz I'm back sorry
From his posts in 62 I get the impression McStab would be a jerk regardless though
...Also I'm pretty sure I switched my vote to absta ages ago. >_>

readin

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:While he had quite a few single liners, in collective, Vifam's posts were very little content relevant

The fact that you chose to focus on this and use it as a reason to suspect Vifam is scummy. This has already been linked at least 2 times, so the fact you seem to pay no attention or demonstrate no interest in searching Vifam's meta and just throwing wiki-tells is def scummy. But what is more alarming is I would assume that Pless would most def at least just glance through it and would notify you that your reason for suspecting Vifam is rather inaccurate.

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:but I thought Vifam was scummy and BT has carried the same trend

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:My impression of BTs catchup in #394 was that it read fake; his thoughts on TGAH didn't read to me like the natural train of thought of someone trying to discern a player's alignment. Didn't like much of #456 either; felt that his jump on McStab could have well come from somebody feeling the urge to bus and thought that he was giving Arthur an easy pass for stuff that wasn't alignment indicative.

These read like you already decided to call the Vifam/BT slot scum, and are just trying to find reasoning to support it.

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:Everyone else is essentially null still (though we're conflicted on BT/Vifam Pless thinks BT's townish

Interesting. Did Pless not mention anything at all of his slight reasoning for reading Vifam town?

Did you possibly miss, like... all of this?

Day 1, Votecount 26

Shadoweh (1) - Baby Spice
JasonT1981 (3) - Cerulean, BT, TheGreatestAmericanHero
SafetyDance (3) - ChannelDelibird, petapan, Zdenek
petapan (2) - The Mini-Librarian, SafetyDance

Zdenek(5) - Plessiezarus, camn, Nostredeus, Deasvail, Benmage

absta101 (1) - Shadoweh
camn (1) - absta101
TheGreatestAmericanHero (1) - sottyrulez
Plessiezarus (1) - Ser Arthur Dayne

Not voting (1):

JasonT1981

• With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 6th of February at 5:30pm GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-02-06 13:30:28)
  
• CDB is V/la.

↑ Shadoweh wrote:
...Also I'm pretty sure I switched my vote to absta ages ago. >_>

##Unvote
##Vote: absta

readin

↑ Baby Spice wrote:post 369
So much derp Made me realize stop posting and get meds.

What was derp in that post?

↑ TheGreatestAmericanHero wrote:

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:TGAH -- according to 125 / 141, both your heads have (had?) a town-read on Dayne. How and why did you come to this read?

the terrible attempted wagon on him for the rp. easy target is easy. didn't i already say this?

You already said this and I already said it wasn't a town-tell. The mere fact people are voting for a player for bad reasons doesn't mean that player is town. Sometimes people will vote for scum for stupid reasons. "Easy targets" (not that SAD is one) can be scum. That's all perfectly obvious, isn't it?

↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Wait tammy fill me in on zar-meta in the marvel game (that's the one he played and I'm assuming he was town in?)

"I'm assuming"? Are you claiming you didn't read the Marvel game?

↑ Benmage wrote:

@Plessie

... its a little early to be getting apathetic towards the game.

Apathy is a bit strong? I'm not a huge fan of D1 in general, and this game in particular hasn't really grabbed me yet. But it can only get more interesting.

~ Pless

Pless, I don't mind walls that much, but I just personally tend not to like lots of quotes with text in between all of them. It's my problem, and if other people don't mind them, then feel free to continue.

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:Since people hate Pless' walls, apparently, we'll look at what we think the main points against our scum-reads are in a series of posts.

Absta seems disengaged from the game. Oddly so. He claimed in 61 that this is because he's not used to "the speed" and that his content would pick up. But since then, the game has become much, much slower and absta's activity hasn't improved much at all. It feels like he's using his struggles to "catch up" as an excuse to coast. Compare this to Open 456, where he seems more confident and aggressive, pushes more people, and actually follows up on his questions.

Though Abstra (repeatedly) complains how hard it is to keep up, his disengagement seems like a deliberate choice. He seems to be intentionally focusing on only a small number of people (I think he's only given reads on five or six people all game). His posts seem disjointed and I don't see any real sign of a coherent thought process linking them. He throws out various questions to people, but this often seems like posturing - he doesn't seem to care about getting any anwers, and the questions don't fit well with his current claimed suspicions.

For instance, in 282 he asks Cerulean: "why is Safetydance scum to you?". But by this point, he's already claimed to "not like" Safetydance's 113. So this whole exchange just feels like an excuse to go on and later vote for SD, once Cerulean "convinces" him. But though he votes for SD, he does nothing to push this wagon, and gives up on it once other people lose interest (see 516).

In 291 (and earlier) he argues peta is "prob scum" because he is "finding it hard to create reads". But then in 432, he suddenly decides peta is town, based on what feels like a very weak reason. Again, it feels more like he's giving up on the wagon because of a general lack of interest on other people's part.

Also don't like his jump on camn (514 and onwards). Feels opportunistic - a couple of people had expressed suspicion of camn, or at least irritation with her discussion of hydra-dissonance. His claimed frustration with camn's "bull shit" in 515 rings hollow; his first ever mention of camn in the thread came only five minutes before this. So this sounds like an artificial reaction. In 516 he says people should join him in voting camn "for what I brought up". But he hadn't brought up anything new at all...

~ Pless

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:Since people hate Pless' walls, apparently, we'll look at what we think the main points against our scum-reads are in a series of posts.

Another slot that seems to be playing things safe.

Early town-read on SAD isn't really justified and is, at best, illogical. Being voted for for poor reasons doesn't make you town. Since both rofl and Konowa played with SAD in NY 160B, I wonder at the idea either would call SAD an "easy target".

Post 192, responding to DV's 191, reads like a strange defence of McStab. DV had suggested McStab was only talking about who to lynch if Nostrodeus flipped scum as a way to "make [his] scumread sound more genuine" (and failing, obviously). TGAH then whinges that DV shouldn't "jump to conclusuons" and that McStab might really have a good reason to lynch Nost (presumably, one he'd decided not to talk about yet ). Note that this seems to be the only time TGAH mentions McStab. No thoughts at all on his later wagon, apparently.

Their interactions with sottyrulez (550 and 612) feel like wilful ignorance. Of some people, as town, are going to defend people they think they can read well when they read those people as town. It seems forced that they try to suggest that only a scum-buddy would defend Jason. (Zar and I think sotty is wrong about Jason, but that sotty is probably town.)

Otherwise, yeah. As with absta, our issue is essentally that they are playing things too safe and trying to avoid attention. Posts like:

↑ TheGreatestAmericanHero wrote:I’m going to catch up with everything, hopefully, before I head out to work today. If there is anything that people would specifically like me to address please let me know.

feel like attempts to not have to create their own content. (It's much easier to respond to points others give you than it is to attempt to forge ahead in a vacuum.)

Votes for Nost, Jason. Town-reads on strong active players like Cerulean and SAD. It's all just a bit too easy, isn't it? (And contrast those Jason/Nost votes with the idea that being an "easy target" makes SAD town!) Fluffing up the post count with links to the wiki and "me toos" in response to other players' thoughts isn't great, either.

(Oh, and TGAH, why do you think we're scum, exactly? 612 seems to be literally the first time you mention any sort of read on us.)

~ Pless

Zach, or at least I ghink it was Zach.

Nothing that formalized. I opened several tabs of Vifams past games and iso'd him. Then had to run off to deal wirth something and later made the post from my phone.


Plez, what was Zar's silly stuff?

The SottyRulez/Jason dichotomy was well put.

I plan to re-read both TML and Cerulean (sp?) as pet first wagon theory makes me want to look at them closely.

Benmage, just screwing things up. When you(?)/SAD(?) pointed to that Vifam game I realized that I had forgotten or flipped it or something.

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:Since people hate Pless' walls, apparently, we'll look at what we think the main points against our scum-reads are in a series of posts.

Our scum-read on CDB is weaker than on some of our other suspects. A lot of it has to do with their interactions with McStab (so we'd suspect CDB less if McStab were to flip town).

But at the moment, we have a suspicion that CDB has been manufacturing reasons not to suspect/vote for McStab. We don't really agree with 256 as a reason to town-read McStab and I didn't see the similarities with the town!McStab game that CDB later linked to. In that light, the later suggestion (in 429) that McStab was only recently deviating from his expected town-behaviour feels like CDB giving up in light of the pressure on McStab. We didn't see a marked change in play.

↑ ChannelDelibird wrote:

Lynching your suspects' preferred target tells you nearly as much about them as it does the dead guy

, Shadoweh, so not convinced by you dismissing it like that.

The bolded seems pretty obviously not true. Especially on day 1. As an argument that Shadoweh should join the SD wagon, it seems ... disingenuous? If you want somebody to join a wagon you're on, surely you can find some way to explain why you suspect them? (And again, in 480 Shadoweh seemed to be at least toying with the idea of voting McStab, so this could also be an attempt to deflect votes away from McStab.)

Ignoring possible links with McStab ... CDB's reason for a town-read on Jason (in 311, 501) seems weird:

↑ ChannelDelibird wrote:I'd be very strongly considering a vote on Jason but Sotty and Zach have never given me reason to doubt their reads on him.

"I think he looks bad but I won't vote for him because somebody else who's alignment I don't know says he's town"? Ugh. I could understand being swayed by sotty and Zach if you were null on Jason, but if you'd otherwise be "strongly considering" voting for him ...

Don't understand the reason for CDB's earlier DV suspicion (in 311), or the reason CDB gives in 501 for changing his mind. If I had to pick a particularly town-ish post of DV's, it wouldn't be 483?

--

I should probably look at SAD next, but meh. I don't want to reread him? Maybe I'll try to explain why I think Zar is wrong about BT instead.

~ Pless

↑ Baby Spice wrote:Plez, what was Zar's silly stuff

Some of Zar's notes in the QT are a bit sparse; things like "116 felt a bit like straw manning" or "bad impression about 285".

If I looked at the posts he mentioned and couldn't work out what Zar was going on about or how they were suspicious, I assumed it wasn't important.

~ Pless

Still don't agree with Zar's scum-read on Vifam/BT. (Don't really see how anybody could get an alignment-read from Vifam's one-liners; his replacing-out I still view as slightly more likely from town than scum, but meh.) But talking to Zar I realised I didn't have a reason to think BT was town. It was more just that I liked the tone of his posts and felt that his reads were broadly in line with my own, really. I'd probably rank him as weak town alongside Shadoweh and SafetyDance for now.

By the way, ? This post:

↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Did you possibly miss, like... all of this?

Spoiler:

↑ Benmage wrote:@Vifam I see your name keep popping up down there... Can you link a game for you as scum, and one as town please.

↑ Vifam wrote:My last scum game doesn't match my current meta and going through it would be a waste of time

↑ Vifam wrote:That was back when I gave a fuck and was on tryhard mode

↑ Benmage wrote:A town game, too please. If your scum game was tryhard, wouldn't that be the opposite of this and therefore illustrating you as town?

It'll be a lot easier for you to just link than for me to have to cipher.

↑ Vifam wrote:No, because now I don't tryhard at all

↑ Vifam wrote:But whatever dude if that's what you want

↑ Benmage wrote:I'd appreciate it.

↑ Vifam wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=7325

That's my most recent town but it's gonna take a while finding the most recent scum

↑ Vifam wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=17839 - Scum game

↑ Benmage wrote:

↑ Vifam wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=7325

That's my most recent town but it's gonna take a while finding the most recent scum

That was actually more helpful for me than you probably realize. (My god tho... Please don't spam post in this game... try and string some thoughts together)

(which gives a series of exchanges from 214 to 224 as a reason for Vifam being town) seems more than a bit odd coming from you, since this exchange came your 268:

↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:The townreads on both me and Vifam and

[sic]

hilariously naive.

And it's also not what you told me made you (eventually) read Vifam as town yourself. (That was, apparently, his 40, which I don't see as alignment-indicative, for the record.)

Anyway, BT. I'm still not seeing Zar's problem with 394, which I read as pretty genuine.

There's maybe a bit of a contradiction between

↑ BT wrote:Don't like Jason #122;

SAD has some stuff outside of RP to look at at that point

yet the focus is still on "omg stop your scum-motivated rp"

and

↑ BT wrote:Not getting a read on him

[=SAD]

otherwise, might be because of the RP.

I guess? On the one hand, BT says SAD has stuff look at beyond RP, so people (Jason) shouldn't attack him for his RP but instead read his "content". On the other, this "content" isn't enough to actually get a read on him, so he's null but for the activity. (Activity is not a town-tell for SAD, for the record. He spams like crazy as either alignment.)

But really, this feels nitpicky at best, and it would at most merit going back to look at BT if SAD ever flips scum (it feels obvious SAD isn't going to be lynched soon, because people read his acitivty as a town-tell, but I may as well note this for future reference.)

Otherwise I still like BT. His suspicion of absta in 456 feels natural (and correct), and his "My God" reaction to camn's 467 saved me the bother of writing a post (though I was arguing Zar out of a scum-read on camn at the time, if I remember correctly).

Barring possible links to SAD (most of which I'm only seeing because of SAD's position on Vifam, honestly), he's null at the worst, and I think more likely town.

(Is he due a prod though? He had a bit of a glut of activity after replacing in, but he's not posted since Tuesday.)

~ Pless

I almost had a heart attack when I saw the red.

Ok well I have followed along to page 20 abouts.

Anyway Benmage + Shadoweh + BT are all super obvious town and will never be lynched this game thanks!

I had a scumread on GreatHero

bbl

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:"I'm assuming"? Are you claiming you didn't read the Marvel game?

No? I wasn't in it, so naturally if it meant I didn't have time to play it, I didn't have time to read it

Apparently Tammy replaced out, and Zar inno. I remember you mention something about via AIM but I don't actually remember what (was that one of the juicy drama games?).

↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:"I'm assuming"? Are you claiming you didn't read the Marvel game?

No? I wasn't in it, so naturally if it meant I didn't have time to play it, I didn't have time to read it

You weren't in it, no, but I know that you posted in the spoiler thread (what people here would call the dead QT, I guess). You read at least the first few pages, and read enough of the spoilers that you commented on people's alignments.

I mean, you didn't post in the spoiler thread much, and you apparently lost interest in following the game fairly quickly, but ... meh. Things like this are why I find it hard to read you. Can't tell if you're honestly forgetful or if you're just playing it up as an excuse to misread Zar.

~ Pless

Actually the only thing I remembered off the top of my head about that game was you= Doctor Doom. Other than that looking back I seem to get a memory of WJ acting naive in the beginning, but I honestly don't remember anything else *shrug* (and I don't really think I read more than page 3 or 4 )

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:Can't tell if you're honestly forgetful or if you're just playing it up as an excuse to misread Zar.

How so? (explain the latter?). Wouldn't I just not mention it at all instead of asking Tammy to fill me in on his meta from that game?

@Nost: post 582

-TML hasn't really had any negative contribution. His posting albeit low, is pretty good (I don't think he's ever very prolific?). Looks like genuine reading/questioning, and he does give reads which is something you need to be more wary of if someone's coasting(That is coasting and not giving reads). Think you're jumping the gun a little early with the lack of questioning on his spot. Tis D1.

↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Cerulean (Tammy/Empire hydra)
Benmage
camn
McStab
The Mini-Librarian

Vifam

BT
ChannelDelibird
Baby Spice

^ These people are town btw except maybe Baby Spice.

I know this is 10 pages ago, and mcstab has since replaced out, but why do you have a town read on him and Cdb if you still do?

↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:

↑ Plessiezarus wrote:Can't tell if you're honestly forgetful or if you're just playing it up as an excuse to misread Zar.

How so? (explain the latter?). Wouldn't I just not mention it at all instead of asking Tammy to fill me in on his meta from that game?

Wait, what is the "it" you "wouldn't mention"?

didn't bring up the Marvel game. You just said: "I don't remember the last time Zar played a Westerosi game". And that wasn't something you brought up spontaneously -- it was when you were challenged by Cerulean about your ability to read me/Zar. was the one to point out that Zar played in the Marvel game. I mean, once she does that you can either say "oh, yeah, now I remember" or you can say you don't remember the game. It would obviously have been weird if you'd just ignored her post entirely. But it wasn't something you brought up yourself.

--

I'd like to try to clarify exactly why you think Vifam is town, too. When (were?) you convinced by the exchange with Benmage you quoted?

~ Pless

This are my notes on McStab.



Overall, we both had a bit of an allergic reaction on the way McStab treated the votes on him on #17, to us it read as trying to paint himself as being nonchalant about it.but Pless thinks this might be something he could see people do as either alignment, and so perhaps it isn't a good idea to read too much into this sort of thing :shrug:.

However, the comment on Jason's alleged gambit in #53 was easy contribution and felt like an attempt to bank on town cred for expressing concern on ruining a supposed gambit. The comment after his unexplained town reads in 93 didn't bring anything to the table either.

Later, we had a bit of an issue with the jump into Nostredeus 160; the reasoning to continue the argument in 164

It's all about context. You tried to come across non-committed to it so that if you got called out for role fishing you'd have an alibi. But you managed to get swayed by one small, two or three sentence post that doesn't even address that issue solely?

Felt convoluted and fabricated. In addition, the jump at Nostredeus for the Shadoweh vote seemed to just be piled up just to sound like there were other suspicious things he had found; basically because I don't understand why McStab found Nostredeus' vote of Shadoweh suspicious, since he had been voting Shadoweh himself.

Comments like the one in 386 seem to come from a player that isn't interested in discerning anything from the thread other than push a lynch. Furthermore, the reaction to the votes and voiced suspicions on him in 416 felt a bit like giving up on being caught in something he could not get himself out of.

I am generally not a fan of scum-pairings early on or without flips, I tend to associate this approach with players that aren't very proficient in their scum play and try to use information they possess to tie people around to others. (This is in reference to #473). It's also something similar thing when players keep coming with reasoning to not push his favorite suspect, like McStab's in #472.

~Zar.