Mafiascum.net

EBWOP: *town-play I've seen from him

↑ Syryana wrote:

↑ fferyllt wrote:It's a good point. I keep thinking that you'll take it as a scummy admission if I stop replying to you but I don't think you could possibly become more convinced that I'm scum. Maybe we could talk about something else? Like what it would take for you and orcinus to reach consensus on who to lynch? Or what inputs we need from quiet players?

You seem inordinately concerned about buldermar thinking you're scum. This also implies you're trying to tailor your actions to make buldermar think you're town.

I'm pretty frustrated with buldermar. He and I have talked mafia game theory. We've played one game together when I was scum. Probably my worst scum performance ever.

There is my scum game and then there is the space surrounding it wherein lies all the imaginings about what else my scum game could be. It's sort of the opposite of an iceberg, where the size of reality is hidden and underestimated. It would be pretty cool if my scum game were more of an iceberg.

I can see that buldermar's reasoning is hitting home with you. At this point, being D1 lynched doesn't sound that bad. Getting to consensus on a policy lynch is going to be difficult and I'm not convinced it's a good idea to policy lynch anyway.

Just before I went totally paranoid about buldermar, I said

↑ fferyllt wrote:buldermar, I'm kinda feeling like the scum players aren't playing yet. :/

I'm feeling that they're hardly playing now. There's no reason to when town's doing their work for them.

I don't like policy lynches, especially in a game this small. The game will hopefully become a lot clearer for town when my alignment is cleared up.

Lets just clear up where I stand on the whole fery situation and why I don't want her lynch today

If nothing changes, I want fery gone at some point in time. I think she's scummy. Less so than before.

I am, however, unwilling to lynch fery unless I am 100% sure or unless we're heading into lylo or something. This is because of several reasons.

Firstly, keeping fery around gives me a better read not just on her, but also, in the event that she's scum, on other players.

Secondly, we have several players right now that we simply just cannot read. We CANNOT read lurker. We can BARELY read Nero. Bacon is VLA. SD has intellectual lapses.

We need to lynch in lurker and Nero today because we have no way of determining their alliance, no way of ascertaining anything from their posts. This is not true for fery.

Lurker and Nero WILL be lynched at some point in time. Given thei lack of usefulness of their posts, it's best that that lynch happens today

↑ Syryana wrote:

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
So why exactly are you voting Nero instead of lurker

Because Lurker's matching his townplay right now and he's provided more to the game than Nero has.

I don't know about pt 1 but pt 2 of that post is a blatant lie

orcinus, what do you think about this Lurker ISO? http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

^^ I think it contrasts pretty strongly with his play so far in this game.

damn it I said I wasn't going to get too wrapped up in non-experiental meta this time.

↑ Jal wrote:The more people negatively react to

three

votes on Lurker, one of which is a RVS vote, the more I'm liking this wagon.

I like this post

Reading Lurker's recent posts, his posting style has change overall so this comparison with the past I don't think holds

It also gives some very interesting realizations. Look at where the buldermar vote stands in his postin history.

I am firmly convinced you can't read this fucker and he should be PLd

Well shit. I was on my way to convincing myself that this doesn't at all look like his town performance in that game. I didn't want to look at games that haven't completed. Guess I better.

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
So why exactly are you voting Nero instead of lurker

Because Lurker's matching his townplay right now and he's provided more to the game than Nero has.

I don't know about pt 1 but pt 2 of that post is a blatant lie

Hmm, you're right. I had thought Lurker provided more content than he did.

I mean, my posting style from some of my early games has changed drastically so a comparison between this and an early town game would paint me as scum.

Comparison isn't valid.

Pedit: just vote lurker.

↑ buldermar wrote:pitoli, what do you think of Nero?

What do I think of Nero? I'm confused whether he's actually motivated by his wincondition or not. The occasional non-trollish post by him isn't actually meant to be helpful; it looks more self-preservatory from this angle. I do think it's something scum Nero would do to push the policy lynch onto Lurker.

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:I mean, my posting style from some of my early games has changed drastically so a comparison between this and an early town game would paint me as scum.

Comparison isn't valid.

Pedit: just vote lurker.

Wow. I just went and looked at Lurker's more recent ongoings, and his posting style has changed since the last game I played with him.

VOTE: Lurker

Can you link to the game you are talking about, Syryana.

↑ Syryana wrote:

↑ buldermar wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:After reading ff's claim and thinking about it, I decided that it's unlikely to be made up. Bulder's probably gonna shit on me for this, but I don't see scumFF dropping a name like Kara when pretending to be a VT. My first thought was "Kara Thrace, VT, lolnowai". Kat, Dualla, Callie, hell even Tori or Ellen Tigh would be a better name drop for a VT. She goes with Kara though, and the more I thought about it the less sense a scum VT claim would use Kara makes. Claim a PR or claim an obvious VT role, but claiming a great possible PR name and claiming VT makes zero sense from a scum perspective.

It makes perfect sense if it prevents you from getting lynched, which is what it presently seems to do. I'm inclined to just disregard it, but I find the fact that she's trying to use it as a town-tell on herself troublesome.

Though in general I agree that someone using the excuse that "I'd never do something that dumb as scum, so I must be town" is pretty alarming, it's honestly your presence in the game that moves me to think it's genuine. I don't see FFscum making a move like that when she

knows

you'd be all over her for it. Yes, it's still a WIFOM argument; we could go at this all day and not convince each other. I'm getting a gut town read from it though so I'd prefer not to lynch FF at this time.

A lot of arguments regarding scumtells can be boiled down to WIFOM; but this one in particular I do not like. How do you know I would be on ffery's case for it as opposed to the other players here?

Hmm. It bugged me that you didn't vote me after making a case against me. Going back and seeing your only game on site, I see it's your style to not vote anyone until you're sure they're scum.

I'm sorry you don't have more meta to crosscheck me against. Actually, for my only game here that didn't get wiped out completely by server crash (Newbie 1176), I was scum. So you can toss that out.

↑ fferyllt wrote:Can you link to the game you are talking about, Syryana.

Street Racers

pitoli wrote:A lot of arguments regarding scumtells can be boiled down to WIFOM; but this one in particular I do not like. How do you know I would be on ffery's case for it as opposed to the other players here?

Um, I was talking about buldermar.

pitoli wrote:I'm sorry you don't have more meta to crosscheck me against. Actually, for my only game here that didn't get wiped out completely by server crash (Newbie 1176), I was scum. So you can toss that out.

How many Mafia games have you played, roughly?

↑ Syryana wrote:

pitoli wrote:A lot of arguments regarding scumtells can be boiled down to WIFOM; but this one in particular I do not like. How do you know I would be on ffery's case for it as opposed to the other players here?

Um, I was talking about buldermar.

Oh gotcha. For some reason I thought all of #640 was directed at me, lol.

pitoli wrote:I'm sorry you don't have more meta to crosscheck me against. Actually, for my only game here that didn't get wiped out completely by server crash (Newbie 1176), I was scum. So you can toss that out.

How many Mafia games have you played, roughly?

Completed three forum games; one as town and two as mafia.
I play often in real life but get bored quickly.

↑ pitoli wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:

pitoli wrote:A lot of arguments regarding scumtells can be boiled down to WIFOM; but this one in particular I do not like. How do you know I would be on ffery's case for it as opposed to the other players here?

Um, I was talking about buldermar.

Oh gotcha. For some reason I thought all of #640 was directed at me, lol.

EBWODP: #599

↑ pitoli wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:

pitoli wrote:A lot of arguments regarding scumtells can be boiled down to WIFOM; but this one in particular I do not like. How do you know I would be on ffery's case for it as opposed to the other players here?

Um, I was talking about buldermar.

Oh gotcha. For some reason I thought all of #640 was directed at me, lol.

No. Only the last part.

pitoli wrote:Completed three forum games; one as town and two as mafia.
I play often in real life but get bored quickly.

So how would you characterize your town play versus your scum play?

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
Sorry bulder look elsewhere we're PLing today

Sorry Judge Judy but you don't *decide* that the whole town is lynching based on Policy. That is a terrible assumption and with over a week out from deadline is nothing short of ridiculous.

↑ Syryana wrote:
My main problem with Lurker is that I got him mislynched (I was scum, him town) in another game for doing exactly what he's doing here. He's great mislynch material because he lurks all game then under pressure shits out some awful logic. His lurking is about as alignment indicative as Nero's trolling.

From my experience, pressure on Lurker is always a good thing.

↑ fferyllt wrote:
Any suggestions on how to make it a more productive and less long-winded game day?

↑ SafetyDance wrote:...seriously, calm down, go to sleep or walk the dog or something and then come back and post in the thread.

Not being on mafiascum 18 hours a day helps too. This isn't EpicMafia, you don't have to always be refreshing.

↑ fferyllt wrote: I have a question up-thread for SD about Nero.

Going back...

↑ fferyllt wrote:SD do you have any comment on Nero's intimations about you?

I don't know, I think he's trying to be bullish towards me because I've voted him, think he's play is shit and this is his (shit) way of dealing with it. He's the low-post, egotistical version of others here in the game.

↑ orcinus_theoriginal wrote:Idk I read his list as tongue in cheek

But if its serious I'm considering voting him

The aggression towards pitoli looks fake and completely unfounded

That and the joke of a list has me wondering

And what the fuck is wrong with it? Nothing. And all of this is a complete misrep.

The post quoting pitoli was addressed to everyone. I don't think I gave a clear indication one way or the other which way my opinion fell and which one I though was the most likely choice. Thus the hypotheticals. There was no aggression towards pitoli there wasn't even a hint of a FOS. So clean your reading glasses.

The list? It's dead-set simple:

↑ SafetyDance wrote:
Scum in: buldermar, fferyllt, orcinus_theoriginal

I think there's definite scum here because I don't think your reactions to each other are all coming from town.

↑ SafetyDance wrote:
Possible scum in: nero, Lurker

I don't like these two and their play styles and their lurking and think its scummy (and Nero is scummy for what he posts too) so can see Scum here.

↑ SafetyDance wrote:
No idea: pitoli, Deltabacon, Syryana

This is basically "null". Why? Because most of their postings and interactions are hidden behind PAGES of posts of others and I don't (or didn't) have a definite read on them. Do you accept null reads from others? So how is this different?

That is how I have grouped the playerlist. I'm sure you have brain capacity to understand this.

↑ Syryana wrote:My main problem with Lurker is that I got him mislynched (I was scum, him town) in another game for doing exactly what he's doing here. He's great mislynch material because he lurks all game then under pressure shits out some awful logic. His lurking is about as alignment indicative as Nero's trolling.

According to the thread you linked, he was NKed on night 5. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4796912

fferyllt wrote:

↑ Syryana wrote:My main problem with Lurker is that I got him mislynched (I was scum, him town) in another game for doing exactly what he's doing here. He's great mislynch material because he lurks all game then under pressure shits out some awful logic. His lurking is about as alignment indicative as Nero's trolling.

According to the thread you linked, he was NKed on night 5. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4796912

Aye. Shows his town play, which is pretty wildly different from the game I first encountered him: Open 481.

Well okay

VOTE: SafetyDance

I love how you list scum inthe three of us and made no effort to push a lynch, or even specify which of us is likely scum, or even list any evidence for why you think our interactions are forced.

I also have no interest in reading your posts which are just you spewing insults on the page. I've tried being nice to you.

You're right why policy when a scum just appeared in front of us

Good lord

↑ SafetyDance wrote:

↑ pitoli wrote:Hey guys, just posting quickly after skimming the thread again.

I've got a project due later tonight,

after which you can expect updates on my reads, however murky.

Is this something you find ok? Do you want someone who's hypothetically-town in the game to have "murky" reads that are due to time constraints and having to skim posts? Do you want hypothetical-scum to be able to use "murky" as an excuse for their inaccurate reads?

Asking for help towards clarity, again, is not laziness.

"No aggression towards pitoli"

I'm not the only person seeing this right