Micro 164: Epic Mafia (Game Over)

[BBmolla]

Let's kicklynch catboi so it doesn't go unranked

[Rob14]

Bubba - please try posting again when you are able to post in a coherent way. I got like two sentences in and reached this wall of awful spelling and grammar that I refuse to put myself through. I'm not wading through that nonsense.

[Piratecat]

Explain to me how we have been defending Catboi? When I think he's scum before he disappeared? (P.S. I still have a slight scum read on him)

@Bubba:

Please tell me how Catboi disappearing makes him more townier then scum? I find him flaking as a null tell.

Yeah, your vote on me feels like it's a comprised vote rather then you think I'm scummy. It's kinda like a bad sense of PoE.

[rmpeacoc]

We didn't call you a lurker.. That was yours and jakes interapation of it.
You both jumped to that conclusion without asking us first what it meant.

Show me an example of someone asking 'where is (name)' and not actually wondering where they have been/why they have potentially been lurking?

Whatever, it doesn't matter.

You STILL haven't said whatever you want to say to me... you said you wanted to talk. lets talk.

[bubbajack8]

Bubba - please try posting again when you are able to post in a coherent way. I got like two sentences in and reached this wall of awful spelling and grammar that I refuse to put myself through. I'm not wading through that nonsense.

you seriously couldnt decipher thst?

[Piratecat]

We didn't call you a lurker.. That was yours and jakes interapation of it.
You both jumped to that conclusion without asking us first what it meant.

Show me an example of someone asking 'where is (name)' and not actually wondering where they have been/why they have potentially been lurking?

Whatever, it doesn't matter.

You STILL haven't said whatever you want to say to me... you said you wanted to talk. lets talk.

That's just Mollie's style. You'll get used to it after a while.

Brb let me poke her on Skype to let her know you are around

[Piratecat]

We didn't call you a lurker.. That was yours and jakes interapation of it.
You both jumped to that conclusion without asking us first what it meant.

Show me an example of someone asking 'where is (name)' and not actually wondering where they have been/why they have potentially been lurking?

Whatever, it doesn't matter.

You STILL haven't said whatever you want to say to me... you said you wanted to talk. lets talk.

I wanted to speak to you in real time, but I forget my original question.

it probably had something to do with what was going in the time of the thread.

reads on jake and bubba, though is a start

[Piratecat]

hi guys!

mollie head here!

I think bubba and rpm are scum

really thinking rob is town. if jake is being so stubborn that the world will end if he doesn't change his mind and he is still sticking with that read he is probably town. also scum don't give out gut reads and then defend them. bbmolla, think of the audio game where you had an early gut scum read on me. I just happen to think he is wrong this time but gut reads are hard to substantiate so scum won't usually use them.

unsure lean town on fuzzy

anyways that is what I got so far

oh hai where did catboi go

^Scum. Reads make no sense at all.

Her continues catboi defense doesn't bode well for that slot either.

are you good with a bmolla lynch?

^And she's upset because I'm trying to lynch them. Their appeal to "hey we were in audio game together buddy you misread us there so we have to be town here " followed by this random decision I'm scum is SO BAD AND NONSENSICAL

I know all you top posters love bitching at each other but can we please lynch non-commital out of the way piratecat?

lol

this must be satire cos it could not be anything else

[BBmolla]

Okay

[pirate mollie]

okay

[Jake from State Farm]

PRs should probably just claim as PRs shouldnt they

no but the vig should probably claim for the following reasons since people are obviously so stupid.

1. it gives us a guranteed clear
2. it gives us someone the doc can protect (or not if they think mafia will hook him)
3. it sort of forces mafia to either try to kill them (hopefully protected by doc) or hook them (which would prevent the chance the cop or doc is hooked)
4. it narrows down the numbers to have to scum hunt from. Personally it's much easier to find scum out of a pool of 7 people than it is to find scum out of a pool of 8. It also gives us someone we can kind of listen to as the leader if we need help deciding between people.

in EM the vig claimed, no reason why they should not claim here either.

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: fuzzy

Policy lynch

[Jake from State Farm]

mollie here, let's clear some shit up

rpm, I asked where you were cos I wanted to talk to you. I never accused you of lurking why the fuck are you eating jake's crispy flakes.

bubba you still look like pondscum

molla what in the world are you doing like omg. you know we have never really gotten up in each other's grille in a game yet, maybe it is time

rob, I have seen so many scum v/la it is not funny. sora did it for like 2 game days in a row and nearly got away with it in terrible music micro. I don't think it goes against the spirit of the game, but we will have to agree to disagree.

Get real, if you wanted to talk to them you would have @ them and asked a question, it's almost site meta at this point that when a person asks where someone is, it's implying ther are lurking/disappeared/etc.

[Rob14]

How often have you played with Mollie, Jake?

And Bubba, I'm sure I could decipher it if I set my mind to, but like I said, I'm not going to put myself through that. It would just be an awful experience all around.

[Jake from State Farm]

Off the top of my head I know at least once, possibly more

[rmpeacoc]

Can someone explain me the Mollie/Piratecat Deal? Why are you poking someone on skype to tell them I'm here?

For reference I usually pop in and pop out. Don't expect me to be here, then you post 5 minutes later, and then for me to reply 5 minutes later again. I'm not always on for long periods of time.

[Jake from State Farm]

Off the top of my head I know at least once, possibly more

3 completed games actually. She was town all 3 Games

[bubbajack8]

The reason I liked that post was that he didn't shy away from starting a wagon in RVS. The best way to get out of RVS, typically, is to put some pressure on people and see who squirms. The fact that he was willing to go right out there and wagon without reason is a good thing (at least at that stage in the game). Scum are more cautious in RVS because wagoning is often seen as scummy, so they try to avoid that. This is especially true for newer players.

So since fuzzy bwed he's not scum right? That was my point is it seems to me that you are trying to make fuzzy look town because GiF and fuzzy have done a lot of the same things. Also the only person I found cautious was you trying to make a counter wagon, did you see anyone else being cautious?

Nope. I liked it because it was a good call-out of bad logic from rmp. It also reinforces that he purposefully voted before to increase pressure (i.e. he understood WHY it was a good idea as town to do what he did), which I like. It means he's thinking through actions and deliberately scum-hunting.

Great point, Fuzzy didn't give purpose to his vote..... Nonetheless I like this.

Cool-headedness. Frankly, it was a pretty good analysis of the situation. Also, he did NOT use a site meta clash as an opportunity to wagon someone or throw someone under the bus. Scum wouldn't try to diffuse that situation like that - they'd vote one of the parties and be generally way more opportunistic.

Also, he was relaxed and willing to joke/use a meme. I find that many people joke way less as scum. I would never, for instance, post a meme as scum. It's too risky - people in the game might consider it to be a lack of scum-hunting or not being serious enough. I like to see a relaxed manner like this, especially when the player is still scum-hunting and analyzing the situation, which GIF was.

I would never post a meme as scum! (Posts meme) I find that as you trying to clear yourself. Also I believe Jake has posted memes.

What possible townie would say what you just did. Is it really this easy?

You said yourself that no towny should hide reasons for a read, as of right now you are traitor telling imo. Traitor would soft it out loud, and get mad at whoever pointed it out. What town reason is there to soft you think someone is a PR?

Extremely weak reasoning, but I can see why you'd potentially think this.

Well at least you see why I think it.

Because Jake is targeting me, trying to start a wagon on me (and somewhat succeeding), and refusing to give any reasons for his vote. He was basically starting a witch-hunt in my direction while refusing to give me any reasons which I could defend against. That's scummy. Gut is one thing, but there's no such thing as a strong gut read. If you're calling for a wagon on somebody and looking to lynch them, you damn well better have some concrete reasoning. Especially 20+ pages into the game.

Also, as I've said before, I tend to leave BB for others to sort out, because I'm awful at reading him. I always think he's scum.

I believe I kind of started the wagon on you, Jake just pushed it.

Also if you always think BB is scum why don't you ask him questions to try to find out?

Again, why on earth would any townie draw attention to this. Like seriously. Too easy.

Again, You said yourself that no towny should hide reasons for a read, as of right now you are traitor telling imo. Traitor would soft it out loud, and get mad at whoever pointed it out. What town reason is there to soft you think someone is a PR?

No, I didn't. I got mad at you because I thought you accused me of faking being angry enough to replace out of a game and instigating a situation where another player was forced replaced purposefully to further a scum agenda in another game. If you want to read my town and scum meta, go right ahead. I encourage it - I think meta is very useful Day 1 where appropriate. Just do it correctly and don't accuse me of being a giant asshole to further my wincon in other games.

I don't meta though, I find it as OGI, and you can always learn from your mistakes, and fix it. And if you don't... Well then you are an idiot, or I don't believe you.

Okay, I get it now. You've confused "having a town read" with "buddying." They're a TAD different, though, so you may want to read the wiki a bit.

Only problem with that is he's so sure you are town and doesn't want you lynched. If we lynched fuzzy, and he flipped scum, would you ok with being lynched?

Some people tunnel as town. I'm one of them. Dav isn't even tunneling you. He isn't even voting you right now, and hasn't been for a while. Please, Bubba. Coherent thoughts. We'd all appreciate them.

Did you really just ignore the post where Dav told Jake I am scum? He doesn't have to be voting me to tunnel me.

One post, while he's voting elsewhere if I recall correctly, constitutes tunneling now. Okay, got it. Now you're confusing "having a scum read" with "tunneling." Again, very different things. Go read the wiki.

I don't care if he would have said, "I still think Bubba is scum" but he's still bent on me being scum, he hasn't even attempted the options of me not being scum, and he is currently voting who he thinks is my partner. (If i'm not mistaken)

You're doing that thing again where you just copy random posts and don't make any arguments.

Read the commentary I said "LOL". I thought it was funny how fuzzy thought he knew Jake but Jake's like dude we've only played one game together.

To defeat someone in an argument or make someone look bad? There's plenty of scum motivation to do that if you've caught a townie saying something stupid.

Also, you just started talking about Jake as town. I thought you said he was scummy lately? Which is it?

Just because he made a comment saying that I found towny, doesn't mean I townread him. -_- And I don't like him saying he doesn't listen to rulebreakers, he seems to be listening to me, and I fall under that.

This is exactly the point - Jake is refusing to quote it while simultaneously complaining that I'm not explicitly stating my reason for Pirate being town.

yeah, you are being hypocrites. Also a good point of what you could have done when asked why you think she is town, say "gut". I seriously have no understanding of why a town player would soft someone as being a PR.

No, it isn't. I gave reasoned arguments for why people should vote you and have responded to you several times showing how you aren't scum-hunting, are making bad arguments, and are just generally scumming it up. That's not controlling the lynch - that's persuading others to vote someplace because there's really good reasons to vote there.

Logic > Gut. Show logic, not gut. I agree.

Well, that went right over your head. That was the ENTIRE point, you realize, correct? I was pointing out the hypocrisy in Jake of calling me out for not answering questions (despite me explaining that it would harm town for me to do it) while doing the EXACT SAME THING (and providing no reasons at all for refusing to answer the question).

It harmed town when you softed him as being a PR.

Also Rob let me fix my post you can't read since you are illiterate.

Rob i would call you town, but you keep saying i was speculating a PR. No, and i don't like your reasons for not outting it. i mean theres no scum motivation for saying someone is town and not giving a reason when you think they are PR (besides of course not wanting people to know you think they are a PR)

in fact Rob this is really nice play. soft that you think someone is a PR then get mad when we call it out. Or you can just say gut like everyone else. i dont understand why you would soft hima as being a pr, its not towny at all.

also you keep talking about a wincon. which i find interesting.

im beginning to think rob is traitor. it makes sense too, soft you think someone is a PR because you have no way of communicating with the mafia! which throws away the idea that fuzz is scum, because rob could tell him in mine craft. (keeping an open mind.)


so that leaves rmp bb jake and both cats.

catboi vegged. reason to believe its not him.

so between rmp bb jake and pirate id say jake.

bb i dont recall ever calling you mafia, i said fuzzy was buddying you with his gut comment, but it was a shitty argument.

oh and GiF. doubt hes mafia.

But what if catboi is mafia, and who was affected by his veg? none other then pirate cat.

fuzzy gtfoff my ass, actually try to scumhunt.

VOTE: pirate

id like a pirate / jake lynch today

I seriously can't believe you couldn't read that. I fixed maybe 20 letters.

[Rob14]

-snip-

Not going to quote you, but here's my responses to some of the stuff you said.

That meme I posted is actually a bit of an exception for me - I've posted that before as scum, IIRC. The meme was appropriate given the situation. I don't think it makes me look town, and anyone who tried to use that reasoning would be really reaching.

I never said that no townie would hide reasons for a read. Don't put words in my mouth. I pointed out Jake being a hypocrite. Big difference, bubba.

I don't ask BB all that many questions because I don't want to waste my time. I'll do it if I have to later in the game, but I'd rather just let other people sort out his alignment because I'm certainly not going to get it right, regardless of how many questions I ask him. The way in which he conducts himself as town looks extremely scummy to me for whatever reason.

It's not "cautious" starting a counter-wagon. Starting a counter-wagon is still wagoning. You're really reaching here. Please explain your reasoning behind someone blatantly coming out and saying they're starting a counter-wagon being cautious, because it's a rather absurd claim.

I didn't soft Pirate being a PR originally, and I didn't want to. But when two people (you and Jake) hassle me over and over about my read, I have to say SOMETHING. I tried to say as little as possible ("I'm not giving reasons for this read.") When I kept getting attacked for it, I said it would be bad for town for me to discuss my reasons. This doesn't really reveal anything - it could mean I saw a VT tell or a PR tell, or I could just be WIFOMing the scum. YOU AND JAKE were the two that dragged my thoughts about Pirate out. I didn't do it. YOU did. So don't try to say I softed a PR and that's scummy whereas you blatantly outed a PR, as far as I'm concerned.

Dav/Fuzzy does have to be voting you to be tunneling, actually. If he's voting elsewhere, that means he's following up on multiple scum reads, which means he's not tunneling. Tunneling is considering someone scum and focusing on them to the exclusion of everyone else in the game. You could probably make a case that I'm tunneling on you, but I do that in all my games. The only two people tunneling at this moment are me (tunneling you) and Jake (tunneling me). But, again, tunneling isn't even a scum-tell.

Again, I am not being a hypocrite. Jake is. I never said that townies have no reason to withhold information. I said the exact opposite. Read my posts. Quote where I said that. It doesn't exist, so good luck there. All I did was make a sarcastic post pointing out Jake's hypocrisy.

I'll read your fixed post when I get home. And I could read it, I chose not to. Ain't no one got time to decipher that nonsense.

[Jake from State Farm]

now I am on a computer, here are the things why I voted rob

1. the counter wagon comment, I don't see any reason why town would want to start a counter wagon, nor why they make that comment.
2. his reason for voting rmp was terrible, I didn't see anything wrong with rmp's reaction to being run up
3. the "lurk much" was a joke, but the "suspiciously absent: was absolutely not a joke. The game had not been open for 24 hours yet so there is no need to call out my activity, plus if anyone knows my meta they know I almost always purposely wait until a few pages go by before I post my "sup"
4. post 125 - why me = fry me
5. post 108 says BBMolla could be rmp's partner but in post 125 says he doesn't speculate on partners, but he already had.

the rest of his posts just feel like he is trying to act town, so I peg him as a scum PR, probably stalker. He wants to make himself look at town as possible, but he has yet to make an argument that I like.

[Jake from State Farm]

oh, I also don't like the fact that he calls bubba town early on and later does a 180 on him, his case on bubba is also weak.

[bubbajack8]

That meme I posted is actually a bit of an exception for me - I've posted that before as scum, IIRC. The meme was appropriate given the situation. I don't think it makes me look town, and anyone who tried to use that reasoning would be really reaching.

As much as I hate to say it.... Is the game where you posted it as scum completed? I would like to see you have posted as scum.

Have you posted it as town before as well?

I never said that no townie would hide reasons for a read. Don't put words in my mouth. I pointed out Jake being a hypocrite. Big difference, bubba.

But there's never any reason for town not to answer a question

or give a reason for their reads

, AM I RIGHT?

I don't ask BB all that many questions because I don't want to waste my time. I'll do it if I have to later in the game, but I'd rather just let other people sort out his alignment because I'm certainly not going to get it right, regardless of how many questions I ask him. The way in which he conducts himself as town looks extremely scummy to me for whatever reason.

Fair enough, just as RMP can't read me, you can't read BB.

It's not "cautious" starting a counter-wagon. Starting a counter-wagon is still wagoning. You're really reaching here. Please explain your reasoning behind someone blatantly coming out and saying they're starting a counter-wagon being cautious, because it's a rather absurd claim.

Ok, then answer my other question, who was being cautious of the wagon?

I didn't soft Pirate being a PR originally, and I didn't want to. But when two people (you and Jake) hassle me over and over about my read, I have to say SOMETHING. I tried to say as little as possible ("I'm not giving reasons for this read.") When I kept getting attacked for it, I said it would be bad for town for me to discuss my reasons. This doesn't really reveal anything - it could mean I saw a VT tell or a PR tell, or I could just be WIFOMing the scum. YOU AND JAKE were the two that dragged my thoughts about Pirate out. I didn't do it. YOU did. So don't try to say I softed a PR and that's scummy whereas you blatantly outed a PR, as far as I'm concerned.

As I've already said why didn't you just say gut. It was bad for town when you said "I'm not giving reasons for this read" Total traitor tell.

Dav/Fuzzy does have to be voting you to be tunneling, actually. If he's voting elsewhere, that means he's following up on multiple scum reads, which means he's not tunneling. Tunneling is considering someone scum and focusing on them to the exclusion of everyone else in the game. You could probably make a case that I'm tunneling on you, but I do that in all my games. The only two people tunneling at this moment are me (tunneling you) and Jake (tunneling me). But, again, tunneling isn't even a scum-tell.

Didn't fuzzy say tunneling wasn't a scum tell as well?

Again, I am not being a hypocrite. Jake is. I never said that townies have no reason to withhold information. I said the exact opposite. Read my posts. Quote where I said that. It doesn't exist, so good luck there. All I did was make a sarcastic post pointing out Jake's hypocrisy.

But there's never any reason for town not to answer a question

or give a reason for their reads

, AM I RIGHT?

I'll read your fixed post when I get home. And I could read it, I chose not to. Ain't no one got time to decipher that nonsense.

It took 2 minutes. Max for me to decipher it. Seriously it wasn't that hard. The first one was harder then this one, you are reaching for excuses to not read it.

[Rob14]

Bubba - as I said before 589 is sarcasm. The capitalized am I right at the end makes that obvious.

No one was particularly cautious except maybe Jake since he just said he purposefully stays out the first few pages although he claims he does that as town as well. What I said was that GIF was the exact opposite of cautious. Combine that with his newness (new people tend to be extra cautious as scum) and it was the start of a good town read.

I'll respond more later when at a computer. Can't look up post effectively on an ipod

[Jake from State Farm]

yes, I purposely avoid the first few pages, that doesn't mean I am cautious. I do it on purpose unless I am really bored.

Spoiler:

Disney mafia - page 7
Bubbletape - late page 2
City of death (scum game, didn't even do sup) - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23424
Bureacracy - Top of page 2 This is interesting because mod said we could not pick up the paper until post 26, my post was post 26 and my next post I picked up the paper. i got much flack for it to but it was cool as hell.
Speed Mafia - bottom of page 3
Vanger - page 1, no idea why I didn't wait for this game
BreakingBad - page 1, same thing, no idea why I didn't wait.
Monopoly - page 7
Epic Mafia - page 3 I was active for pre-game and once game started I waited
in-vitational - page 3
Bad Blood - I was a replacement
Great Idea - I was confirmed town so no need to wait to post
meister - my only town game where I didn't say "sup" - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=25536
borkgame - I was a replacement

[Rob14]

K - town meta checks out