In post 621, TMTOLBTWNTOF wrote:So the orginial reason you voted me is something that just dissapated? Also, you have never mentioned me lynch dodging ever, and now you're saying it's your biggest problem?
You do realize you just posted a scum list of two people, if Angel was telling the truth, that were:
a) the easy lynches among the town players (I had been suspected most of Day 1, Angel was going to hang)
b) possible to die soon, leaving you with very few directions to go
Your positions haven't been strong, your reads inconsistent (you're 'I'll retract that townread' with absolutely no progression), and your vote on me earlier this game smacked more of OMGUS then any sincere idea that you think I'm scum.
You're really not scum hunting, and your question reads like 'well, I'm doing it now, so why do you suspect me?'
It doesn't work that way. It never works that way.
Also, your lynch dodging question is WTF because I didn't accuse you of lynch dodging, I'm accusing you of regurgitating the popular scum reads and not really scum hunting.
In post 618, Amrun wrote:Fuzzy, you fail to take into account that scum make suicidal moves when they're already as good as dead, as arc did. I thought Arc might be some scum variant, but no way was she Percy Weasley, SUPER SAINT. Obviously fake claims like that need to die, because try can never be trusted in lylo. Why can they never be trusted in lylo? Because they have a good shot at being scum.
I think he's being disingenuous on purpose. I think Fuzzy knows well the possible motivations of the AA lynch and he's not even taken the position of 'Gee guys, I don't know, maybe Angel's an VI.'
No, he called it crap in Twilight. And then when he's called on it, he's seeming to claim that it was the most obvious thing in the world she was obv Town and what the hell are we doing?
That's cognitively dissonant on an extreme level, Amrun, and it's not a position I believe comes from Town, but
scum distancing themselves from the lynch
. The Super Saint claim was extreme, a last ditch effort to get folks off her wagon, and while she flipped town, WAS NOT TOWN. IT WASN'T PRO-TOWN, OR BEHAVIOR A VT SHOULD HAVE ENGAGED IN.
Uh, you do realize the lynch occurred WHILE I WAS AWAY, right? I never said it was obvious that she was town, but Scum doesn't do that. That is literally Suicidal. Scum would claim scum before they claim supersaint.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:31 am
by Amrun
^lol WHAT? You're high, fuzzy.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:32 am
by fuzzybutternut
No, I'm actually not. Please give me a scenario where scum would claim SUPERSAINT to try to survive, given MS's history of THAT SPECIFIC CLAIM.
In post 618, Amrun wrote:In the universe where you're not Fred and George...?
You're likely town, but regardless, that's a silly question. (Lol belatedly realize i didn't even think of giving the gun to one o f the claimed masons but I'm not confident either of them would shoot well)
Saint, I'm not meta reliant but I certainly take it into account.
Fuzzy, you fail to take into account that scum make suicidal moves when they're already as good as dead, as arc did. I thought Arc might be some scum variant, but no way was she Percy Weasley, SUPER SAINT. Obviously fake claims like that need to die, because try can never be trusted in lylo. Why can they never be trusted in lylo? Because they have a good shot at being scum.
Hmm, ever think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, she wanted to stay in this game? Maybe she didn't want to be lynched out, so she claimed something that MIGHT just save her? No?
What's all this talk about Lylo? How can you be so certain that we're going to make it to lylo?
VOTE: Amrun
Oh my GOD, missed the last page. This post had me in stitches.
So it's suicidal for scum, but a last ditch to save herself as town? And you're pretending this makes sense? And voting me for MENTIONING lylo in a perfectly normal manner?
lolololol
bybye townread on fuzzy
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:37 am
by fuzzybutternut
Mhm. I can fake missing votes on me too, btw.
It's suicidal for scum, meaning scum would never do that, because it's fucking suicidal.
It's NOT suicidal for town, because town may or may not have a reason to claim it. I can think of several reasons as to why she would claim it, and survivalism is only one of them.
>votes someone
>loses their town read
OMGUS
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:53 am
by Amrun
It's just as survivalist for town as scum, and you're missing the point that she was already dying, so "suicide" does not mean what you think it means.
You literally cannot say "she was obviously claiming it to survive because she was town" and "scum would not say that to survive." It's completely illogical.
And several things about omgus.
a) OMGUS isn't a scum tell.
b) I'm not voting for you.
c) My reason for retracting my town read on you had almost nothing to do with your vote on me (though it is bad and you should feel bad).
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:55 am
by fuzzybutternut
It's not illogical at all, actually.
Where did I say OMGUS was a scum tell?
You don't have to vote someone to suck.
Really? Because the retraction of your town read was only stated after quoting the post in which I voted you.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:08 am
by Ghostlin
Fuzzy, if you are VT (PRs are something else entirely) then what do you have to gain by:
1) Insisting you stay alive by lying about your role (yes. You should fight your lynch, but PR claims are extremely anti-town if you don't have one)
2) Claiming a PR that could very easily be counter-claimed.
3) Claiming something that's entire goal is to prevent votes because the hammering vote dies?
You realize you are arguing that we shouldn't have lynched someone guilty of all 3. You have argued at the same time that it was a preservation move for Town and suicidal for scum, as if without a flip there's much of a difference. Your argument is cognitively dissonant at worst and WIFOMsque at best. You refuse to consider for a moment that the Archangel lynch was the right thing to do because we couldn't have taken such a claim to LYLO.
What's worse, I'm not convinced you don't realize exactly all of the above and are pushing this to try to push both on Amrun and clear yourself of any wrongdoing of a mislynch.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:21 am
by DeasVail
Big long catch up post coming some time today.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:31 am
by fuzzybutternut
In post 633, Ghostlin wrote:Fuzzy, if you are VT (PRs are something else entirely) then what do you have to gain by:
1) Insisting you stay alive by lying about your role (yes. You should fight your lynch, but PR claims are extremely anti-town if you don't have one)
2) Claiming a PR that could very easily be counter-claimed.
3) Claiming something that's entire goal is to prevent votes because the hammering vote dies?
You realize you are arguing that we shouldn't have lynched someone guilty of all 3. You have argued at the same time that it was a preservation move for Town and suicidal for scum, as if without a flip there's much of a difference. Your argument is cognitively dissonant at worst and WIFOMsque at best. You refuse to consider for a moment that the Archangel lynch was the right thing to do because we couldn't have taken such a claim to LYLO.
What's worse, I'm not convinced you don't realize exactly all of the above and are pushing this to try to push both on Amrun and clear yourself of any wrongdoing of a mislynch.
lolwut?
Please show me where i'm trying to push anything on Amrun. Go ahead. I'm waiting.
You're completely missing my point. Scum, smart or stupid, wouldn't claim SS. At all. Never. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. Not gonna happen. If they do, they deserve to go down in history as the most idiotic scum on the face of the earth. I have no doubt in my mind that it was a survivalistic claim. Perhaps she DID know she was as good as gone. perhaps that was a final attempt to draw scum out of their shell. Those three things that you mentioned make it SO OBVIOUS that you knew she was town.
To be frank, I don't care if you're convinced or not. I don't need to convince anyone. Especially not scum.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:17 pm
by penguin_alien
In post 616, fuzzybutternut wrote:Nope. I play this game putting myself in the shoes of scum. That wasn't a scum claim, because it was absolutely suicidal. Was it stupid? God yes, but there's a reason I didn't put my vote on Arc. 1.) I was gone.
, but Scum doesn't do that. That is literally Suicidal. Scum would claim scum before they claim supersaint.
(emphasis mine)
Which is it? What had ArcAngel9 done to give her any town cred?
And what's your take on BROseidon's characterization of RachMarie's play in Popcorn Mafia vs. here?
TMTOLBTWNTOF, can you please address this:
In post 604, penguin_alien wrote:[you]had ArcAngel9 and Ghostlin as his top scum reads. And his take on the supersaint claim seems off. Given his scum reads, one of whom was at L-1 and the other of whom was ready to hammer at the risk of being supersainted, why not put down the vote to get to L-1? Takes care of both problems. Instead it's characterized as interesting and noted as lynch-dodging behavior.
Where did I say OMGUS was a scum tell?
You don't have to vote someone to suck.
Really? Because the retraction of your town read was only stated after quoting the post in which I voted you.
That's such mudslinging. The post I quoted also contained the reason I retracted my town read on you, which I explicitly stated.
Either way, nothing you have accused me of is even remotely scummy. And the fact that you probably know that and don't seem to care concerns me, but not nearly as much as your ridiculous level of hypocrisy that I find more likely to come from scum.
Where did I say OMGUS was a scum tell?
You don't have to vote someone to suck.
Really? Because the retraction of your town read was only stated after quoting the post in which I voted you.
That's such mudslinging. The post I quoted also contained the reason I retracted my town read on you, which I explicitly stated.
Either way, nothing you have accused me of is even remotely scummy. And the fact that you probably know that and don't seem to care concerns me, but not nearly as much as your ridiculous level of hypocrisy that I find more likely to come from scum.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:13 pm
by BROseidon
In post 604, penguin_alien wrote:I'm definitely waiting on TMTOLBTWNTOF's thoughts to start out today, given that he had ArcAngel9 and Ghostlin as his top scum reads. And his take on the supersaint claim seems off. Given his scum reads, one of whom was at L-1 and the other of whom was ready to hammer at the risk of being supersainted, why not put down the vote to get to L-1? Takes care of both problems. Instead it's characterized as interesting and noted as lynch-dodging behavior.
Good point.
Okay I like ghosts 614 a lot. Basically the same response to FBN that I had.
FBN, what is the "history" of the supersaint claim that you refer to? Some of us haven't been here very long and don't know shit like that, and from a theoretical perspective I can see huge scum motivation in a supersaint fakeclaim and no VT motivation for the fakeclaim.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:48 pm
by Amrun
I've been here much longer than him and he's full of shit.
In post 604, penguin_alien wrote:[you]had ArcAngel9 and Ghostlin as his top scum reads. And his take on the supersaint claim seems off. Given his scum reads, one of whom was at L-1 and the other of whom was ready to hammer at the risk of being supersainted, why not put down the vote to get to L-1? Takes care of both problems. Instead it's characterized as interesting and noted as lynch-dodging behavior.
Here's why my take on the supersaint claim might have seemed off. I haven't ever played with a supersaint, and I just looked on the wiki to see what it was, and gave my opinion based on that, which was that it looked like a desperate attempt to not get lynched. That was the reason for my scumread on ArcAngel, on top of earlier idiocy like suggesting lynch on Fred and George.
Ghostlin was my scumread because he pounced on something that I don't see as a scumtell, which was changing my opinion.
Can you explain your last question? What does put down the vote to get to L-1 mean? Isn't he already at L-1?
Ghostlin wrote:
In post 621, TMTOLBTWNTOF wrote:So the orginial reason you voted me is something that just dissapated? Also, you have never mentioned me lynch dodging ever, and now you're saying it's your biggest problem?
You do realize you just posted a scum list of two people
You posted two scumreads, one being the safe one, one that was already under pressure, and one that was "weak" so you could jump out of it at your convenience.
Saint, why was your vote on Mhork at the end of D1? Mhork is town
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:36 pm
by Amrun
Omg. Kill it. What a potshot.
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:44 pm
by BROseidon
VOTE: TMTOL
Anyone else see it?
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:56 pm
by Amrun
So if you had a scum read on angel for her claim, why exactly didn't you vote for her...?
Kill. It. With. Fire!
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:22 pm
by Ghostlin
TMT, the main difference between you and me is I was probably pretty sure Angel was scum, was willing to carry my conviction to hammer, not knowing if Angel was a supersaint or not.
You mentioned Angel as a scum suspect, didn't cast a vote on her or helped us lynch her in anyway to help test the supersaint claim. I pretty much begged town at the end of the Day. WHY did you NOT jump onto the Angel lynch the moment Town decided it was going to happen? Why did Amrun have to cast the vote before the hammer?
(No, I'm not asking these questions of Fuzzy because Fuzzy was V/LA.)
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:22 pm
by Ghostlin
(And not invested in the Angel lynch. She was listed as scum with me in your reads. Why weren't you invested in that lynch?)
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:58 am
by DeasVail
I know I keep apologising, but again, I'm really sorry.
Also, this is not going to be a big post, there's not much that's new to say, but if I was scum I probably would have tried to make it into a big post anyway, so yay self-analysis/meta/whatever you want to call it.
People I don't want to lynch today:
Fuzzy
Rach
CDB
Mhork
Saint
Ghostlin
Lean town, but could still be scum (this one's in order):
Amrun
Bro
Penguin
Leftover and also scummy:
TMT
I agree with what's been said about him and also found him scummy before. Jake is no longer here to distract me (btw sorry Jake ) and Mhork is a mason claim so yeah.
This is just from an initial catch up and I've only glanced through some ISOs. I might try and look at ISOs more closely at some point since it's been a while since I've paid attention to this.
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:00 am
by DeasVail
Actually maybe put Bro above Amrun, but I'll check that later.
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:59 am
by Nexus
Votecount 2.1:
TMTOLBTWNTOF (3)-
Amrun, Ghostlin, BROseidon
Amrun (1)-
fuzzybutternut
Not Voting (7)-
DeasVail, RachMarie, ChannelDelibird, penguin_alien, Lord Mhork, Saint, TMTOLBTWNTOF
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The deadline is at 6am BST on Thursday 27th June 2013.
) and Mhork is a mason claim so yeah.