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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:57 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

xyzzy wrote:TA's second post, he reference's a tracker – not an incredibly common role, so perhaps he was trying to convince the town early on that there might be one so they could use sort of a countergambit without people wondering whether a tracker is believable. If MoS is scum, the ordeal with the Almighty Fish Monkey God (and his lesser brother-in-law the Monkey Fish God) could be an attempt to associate with me, and, by extension, look more townie when he comes out with his tracker info. They then have a small dispute, which MoS largely ignores, then he accuses me of being overdefensive (maybe he was thinking he took that sucking-up too far?), and then ThAdmiral does, too! He then continues his attack on me after my bit of intentional WIFOM, and ignores my explanation. He then... um, sort of moves off of me and onto Panzerjager... AND SO DOES MOS! His reasoning is that he doesn't like SK claims – a very nice tool to the town, capable of obliterating the scum. TA then pulls the classic “well done” - a scumtell. He then makes a passing comment about MoS, adding no content. Then MoS gets “no read” on TA?!? And finally, the ever-classic, evr-scummy “in MoS we trust”.

TA and MoS are the scum. I'm surprised I never noticed how similar their tactics are.

unvote, vote mos (/mlost?)
xyzzy. You forget the fact that my SK-hate is completely unrelated to this game and my alignment. Read Robotics mafia for why I will metagame lynch anyone who claims SK on D1. I think it's fucking lame, and will do that regardless of my own alignment.

Also, why the hell would the Almighty Fish Monkey God have anything to do with ANYTHING serious in this game? Do you seriously think that it was supposed to mean anything?
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm

Post by xyzzy »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:
xyzzy wrote:TA's second post, he reference's a tracker – not an incredibly common role, so perhaps he was trying to convince the town early on that there might be one so they could use sort of a countergambit without people wondering whether a tracker is believable. If MoS is scum, the ordeal with the Almighty Fish Monkey God (and his lesser brother-in-law the Monkey Fish God) could be an attempt to associate with me, and, by extension, look more townie when he comes out with his tracker info. They then have a small dispute, which MoS largely ignores, then he accuses me of being overdefensive (maybe he was thinking he took that sucking-up too far?), and then ThAdmiral does, too! He then continues his attack on me after my bit of intentional WIFOM, and ignores my explanation. He then... um, sort of moves off of me and onto Panzerjager... AND SO DOES MOS! His reasoning is that he doesn't like SK claims – a very nice tool to the town, capable of obliterating the scum. TA then pulls the classic “well done” - a scumtell. He then makes a passing comment about MoS, adding no content. Then MoS gets “no read” on TA?!? And finally, the ever-classic, evr-scummy “in MoS we trust”.

TA and MoS are the scum. I'm surprised I never noticed how similar their tactics are.

unvote, vote mos (/mlost?)
xyzzy. You forget the fact that my SK-hate is completely unrelated to this game and my alignment. Read Robotics mafia for why I will metagame lynch anyone who claims SK on D1. I think it's fucking lame, and will do that regardless of my own alignment.

Also, why the hell would the Almighty Fish Monkey God have anything to do with ANYTHING serious in this game? Do you seriously think that it was supposed to mean anything?
Regardless of alignment, not getting the SK to kill the mafia is scummy. You should always use all resources.

Second, everything is to be taken seriously. Whether the conversation was legitimate doesn't matter - only the outcome matters.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:33 pm

Post by Atticus »

In all honesty, any threat to the town should be lynched. Or at least, that's how town should view it.

That includes SK's, claimed SK's, Mafia, claimed Mafia, Lynchers, claimed lynchers, etc.
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:35 pm

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The SK is not a resource. Once they have claimed SK, they are under no obligation to actually help the town, since we won't let them live to endgame regardless. Thinking that you could possibly
use
an SK is pure fantasy, and I wouldn't have thought you that naive, xyzzy.

As for taking it seriously, I still don't understand how you can conclude anything from it. How would my claim of watcher (not tracker) seem MORE townie because of the fact that I talked about a freaking Fish Monkey God??? Does ANYONE see this as logical?
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:49 am

Post by Atticus »

How would my claim of watcher (not tracker) seem MORE townie because of the fact that I talked about a freaking
Fish Monkey God
??? Does ANYONE see this as logical?
I believe that you mean Monkey Fish God.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:22 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Answer the question :P
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:11 pm

Post by xyzzy »

No, you didn't understand.

I wasn't saying that a conversation about something completely random brings information... I was saying that the speakers and the reason for speaking bring information.

You initiated a conversation which was posty without adding any content.

That's scummy; it's says something without saying anything.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:16 pm

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xyzzy wrote:No, you didn't understand.

I wasn't saying that a conversation about something completely random brings information... I was saying that the speakers and the reason for speaking bring information.

You initiated a conversation which was posty without adding any content.

That's scummy; it's says something without saying anything.
I think everyone has been guilty of this at one time or another during this game.
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:15 pm

Post by xyzzy »

ThAdmiral wrote:
xyzzy wrote:No, you didn't understand.

I wasn't saying that a conversation about something completely random brings information... I was saying that the speakers and the reason for speaking bring information.

You initiated a conversation which was posty without adding any content.

That's scummy; it's says something without saying anything.
I think everyone has been guilty of this at one time or another during this game.
...And that proves what?

The problem I'm having with your defense is that you're both attacking individual parts of my argument, which leaves the argument intact - the fact that one piece of evidence isn't usable doesn't make everything else untrue.

MoS and ThAdmiral, what do you think of each other?
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:52 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

I'm sad that ThAdmiral is the only other person willing to say anything useful right now, which just makes you more sure that your bullshit case is correct.

xyzzy, so you agree that the Fish Monkey God convo is not evidence against me? The fact that everyone has done it at one time or another means that it cannot be used as evidence to separate scum from town. To try to do so is foolish and a waste of time.

I have edited your original argument to show what part of the argument has not been debunked so far, since you accuse me of only attacking "part" of the argument. As for that accusation itself, that's retarded. I'm taking your arguments point by point and responding when I have time. I started with the most obviously wrong ones and I'm not done yet. Just because I haven't debunked the entire argument doesn't make my defense up to this point null and void. Your argument that I am scum has become severely weakened at this point.
xyzzy wrote:They then have a small dispute, which MoS largely ignores, then he accuses me of being overdefensive (maybe he was thinking he took that sucking-up too far?), and then ThAdmiral does, too! He then continues his attack on me after my bit of intentional WIFOM, and ignores my explanation. TA then pulls the classic “well done” - a scumtell. He then makes a passing comment about MoS, adding no content. Then MoS gets “no read” on TA?!? And finally, the ever-classic, evr-scummy “in MoS we trust”.

TA and MoS are the scum. I'm surprised I never noticed how similar their tactics are.

unvote, vote mos (/mlost?)
Who is having said dispute? I don't remember what you're talking about. If it's a small dispute, then there isn't much to be said about it, so I don't see why you have to point out that I "largely ignore" it.

I will go look back on where I called you overdefensive. As I recall, it was well-justified, but most players aren't able to see past their ego to admit that what they did could be seen as overdefensive by other players.

I agree that saying "well done" can be a scumtell, but it's a very weak one.

Please quote said "intentional WIFOM" and your "explanation" that I "ignored".

Where is the passing comment TA makes about me? Quote it please.

As for putting TA in my no read category, he isn't the only one. Are you saying that, before you came up with this theory that he and I were scum together, you felt he was very much scum or very much town? I didn't see many people claiming to have gotten a read on him, so you can't say it's a scumtell for me, but it's ok for others to not get a read on him.

"Ever-classic, ever-scummy 'In MoS we trust'"!? Bullshit. I have never seen anyone say something like that in a mafia game. This is the first occurrence of such a phrase, and you're saying that it's an classic scumtell? Are you out of your fucking mind? That's completely retarded, xyzzy.
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:12 pm

Post by Atticus »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Answer the question :P
No, actually, I don't see that as logical.

But I do think it's a good chance that you are scum. To say that I should die without an explanation is scummy. For the town to trust you on that and risk it helping a possible scum is stupid.
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:47 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

Look the way
I
see it is that mos has already netted us one scum. He seems to have a plan to net more. If tomorrow comes and his master plan doesn't work, or he explains his plan and it's a really bad plan,
then
we may put some pressure on him.
Until then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Plus atticus is as good a choice as any in my opinion
(Plus the spambot thing - it's win-win-win!)
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:07 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

*shrug* I'm not overly confident in my plan, but it seems the best place to put my vote right now. I'm not really asking you all the follow me, but you wanted to know what prompted my vote, and explaining it too much would completely nullify the reasoning behind it. It's not like I'm so vehement on voting Atticus that I'd be really pissed off if you voted someone else, barring myself of course :P. I don't want you to vote Atticus just because I said so.
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:30 pm

Post by xyzzy »

Numbered for my convenience.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm sad that ThAdmiral is the only other person willing to say anything useful right now, which just makes you more sure that your bullshit case is correct.

xyzzy, so you agree that the Fish Monkey God convo is not evidence against me? The fact that everyone has done it at one time or another means that it cannot be used as evidence to separate scum from town. To try to do so is foolish and a waste of time.

I have edited your original argument to show what part of the argument has not been debunked so far, since you accuse me of only attacking "part" of the argument. As for that accusation itself, that's retarded. I'm taking your arguments point by point and responding when I have time. I started with the most obviously wrong ones and I'm not done yet. Just because I haven't debunked the entire argument doesn't make my defense up to this point null and void. Your argument that I am scum has become severely weakened at this point.
xyzzy wrote:They then have a small dispute, which MoS largely ignores, then he accuses me of being overdefensive (maybe he was thinking he took that sucking-up too far?), and then ThAdmiral does, too! He then continues his attack on me after my bit of intentional WIFOM, and ignores my explanation. TA then pulls the classic “well done” - a scumtell. He then makes a passing comment about MoS, adding no content. Then MoS gets “no read” on TA?!? And finally, the ever-classic, evr-scummy “in MoS we trust”.

TA and MoS are the scum. I'm surprised I never noticed how similar their tactics are.

unvote, vote mos (/mlost?)
1. Who is having said dispute? I don't remember what you're talking about. If it's a small dispute, then there isn't much to be said about it, so I don't see why you have to point out that I "largely ignore" it.

2. I will go look back on where I called you overdefensive. As I recall, it was well-justified, but most players aren't able to see past their ego to admit that what they did could be seen as overdefensive by other players.

3. I agree that saying "well done" can be a scumtell, but it's a very weak one.

4. Please quote said "intentional WIFOM" and your "explanation" that I "ignored".

5. Where is the passing comment TA makes about me? Quote it please.

6. As for putting TA in my no read category, he isn't the only one. Are you saying that, before you came up with this theory that he and I were scum together, you felt he was very much scum or very much town? I didn't see many people claiming to have gotten a read on him, so you can't say it's a scumtell for me, but it's ok for others to not get a read on him.

7. "Ever-classic, ever-scummy 'In MoS we trust'"!? Bullshit. I have never seen anyone say something like that in a mafia game. This is the first occurrence of such a phrase, and you're saying that it's an classic scumtell? Are you out of your fucking mind? That's completely retarded, xyzzy.
1. You and ThAdmiral were. ThAdmiral repeaetedly quoted you and got no replies.

2. But overdefensiveness isn't bad AT ALL! The point of Mafia is to convince everyone that you're town; you can't do that without being defensive.

3. ...And that changes what? It's still scummy, even if not as scummy as everything else you've done.

4. I was referring to the point where I used WIFOM to attack ThAdmiral and his reply was scummy. I used craplogic to "prove" that he must be scum.

5.
ThAdmiral wrote:Yes.
It seems like mos was keeping this thread alive, and it died when he went to thespival.
This is very... forced, as if he felt obligation to point you out.

6. You ignore the fact that I had a read on him from his reply to my craplogic argument.

7. Click!
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:38 pm

Post by Atticus »

ThAdmiral wrote:Look the way
I
see it is that mos has already netted us one scum. He seems to have a plan to net more. If tomorrow comes and his master plan doesn't work, or he explains his plan and it's a really bad plan,
then
we may put some pressure on him.
Until then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
In what universe does my death prove other people guilty?
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:04 pm

Post by xyzzy »

ThAdmiral wrote:Look the way
I
see it is that mos has already netted us one scum. He seems to have a plan to net more. If tomorrow comes and his master plan doesn't work, or he explains his plan and it's a really bad plan,
then
we may put some pressure on him.
Until then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Plus atticus is as good a choice as any in my opinion
(Plus the spambot thing - it's win-win-win!)
But you're ignoring one crucial question: What if he's scum?

I believe the reason you're ignoring this is because you're his partner.
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:12 am

Post by Occult »

Im incredibly sorry for my absence.

After a quick read (These are just my thoughts after a quick skim. I wanted to put these out there before I start a real reread).

-Xyzzy, Spambot and ThA are my top three likely to be scum.

I need a better read before I move on anything though. Especially when the Fish Monkey God is a large topic of conversation, it makes me wonder how seriously I can take the debate. I'll give it a complete reread and hopefully be able to shuffle out the Bullshit from the relevant info.
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:28 am

Post by Hadhfang »

xyzzy wrote:
ThAdmiral wrote:Look the way
I
see it is that mos has already netted us one scum. He seems to have a plan to net more. If tomorrow comes and his master plan doesn't work, or he explains his plan and it's a really bad plan,
then
we may put some pressure on him.
Until then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Plus atticus is as good a choice as any in my opinion
(Plus the spambot thing - it's win-win-win!)
But you're ignoring one crucial question: What if he's scum?

I believe the reason you're ignoring this is because you're his partner.
The way MoS puts his argumnt he has either seen something that atticus has said or done that no-one else has yet, or he is scum. He has said that he's not overly confident in his plan, which gives him a scapegoat should Atticus turn up town. I can't at the moment see what it is that MoS can't share with us, if he is a watcher. If Atticus targetted Tony montana last night then he's scum and I don't know why MoS would keep that from us, If Atticus targetted anyone else then he doesn't have a night kill, and it's pointless lynching him.

The more I look into this the more I think that MoS is scum.


unvote,Vote: MoS
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:51 am

Post by Patrick »

Votecount

Atticus (4) -- Spambot, Hadhfang, Mastermind of Sin, ThAdmiral
Mastermind of Sin (2) -- Atticus, xyzzy

Not Voting: Blue Zebra, Occult
8 alive, 5 to lynch.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:50 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

xyzzy wrote:Numbered for my convenience.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm sad that ThAdmiral is the only other person willing to say anything useful right now, which just makes you more sure that your bullshit case is correct.

xyzzy, so you agree that the Fish Monkey God convo is not evidence against me? The fact that everyone has done it at one time or another means that it cannot be used as evidence to separate scum from town. To try to do so is foolish and a waste of time.

I have edited your original argument to show what part of the argument has not been debunked so far, since you accuse me of only attacking "part" of the argument. As for that accusation itself, that's retarded. I'm taking your arguments point by point and responding when I have time. I started with the most obviously wrong ones and I'm not done yet. Just because I haven't debunked the entire argument doesn't make my defense up to this point null and void. Your argument that I am scum has become severely weakened at this point.
xyzzy wrote:They then have a small dispute, which MoS largely ignores, then he accuses me of being overdefensive (maybe he was thinking he took that sucking-up too far?), and then ThAdmiral does, too! He then continues his attack on me after my bit of intentional WIFOM, and ignores my explanation. TA then pulls the classic “well done” - a scumtell. He then makes a passing comment about MoS, adding no content. Then MoS gets “no read” on TA?!? And finally, the ever-classic, evr-scummy “in MoS we trust”.

TA and MoS are the scum. I'm surprised I never noticed how similar their tactics are.

unvote, vote mos (/mlost?)
1. Who is having said dispute? I don't remember what you're talking about. If it's a small dispute, then there isn't much to be said about it, so I don't see why you have to point out that I "largely ignore" it.

2. I will go look back on where I called you overdefensive. As I recall, it was well-justified, but most players aren't able to see past their ego to admit that what they did could be seen as overdefensive by other players.

3. I agree that saying "well done" can be a scumtell, but it's a very weak one.

4. Please quote said "intentional WIFOM" and your "explanation" that I "ignored".

5. Where is the passing comment TA makes about me? Quote it please.

6. As for putting TA in my no read category, he isn't the only one. Are you saying that, before you came up with this theory that he and I were scum together, you felt he was very much scum or very much town? I didn't see many people claiming to have gotten a read on him, so you can't say it's a scumtell for me, but it's ok for others to not get a read on him.

7. "Ever-classic, ever-scummy 'In MoS we trust'"!? Bullshit. I have never seen anyone say something like that in a mafia game. This is the first occurrence of such a phrase, and you're saying that it's an classic scumtell? Are you out of your fucking mind? That's completely retarded, xyzzy.
1. You and ThAdmiral were. ThAdmiral repeaetedly quoted you and got no replies.
*shrug* I have no idea what you're talking about. It happened if you say so, but I don't remember it at all.
2. But overdefensiveness isn't bad AT ALL! The point of Mafia is to convince everyone that you're town; you can't do that without being defensive.
There is a difference between being defensive and being overdefensive. It's never a large scumtell (as evidenced by the fact that I'm not pushing you hard over it), but scum *DO* tend to get nervous under pressure and defend themselves too strenuously. This is dependent on each individual player's tendencies, but, not knowing your scum tendencies, it seems like a reasonable thing to point out.
3. ...And that changes what? It's still scummy, even if not as scummy as everything else you've done.
erm, I didn't say it changed anything. I was actually agreeing with you, although your fervor to call me scum seems to have made you overlook that. In addition, I wasn't the person who said "well done" in the first place, so your fervor has once again overlooked something.
4. I was referring to the point where I used WIFOM to attack ThAdmiral and his reply was scummy. I used craplogic to "prove" that he must be scum.
No recollection of this, either. I haven't really seen ThAdmiral do much this game.
5.
ThAdmiral wrote:Yes.
It seems like mos was keeping this thread alive, and it died when he went to thespival.
This is very... forced, as if he felt obligation to point you out.
Do you disagree?
6. You ignore the fact that I had a read on him from his reply to my craplogic argument.
Again, something I didn't even know had happened.
I see. Now I understand where this all came from. However, Appeal to Authority has nothing to do with me. This is a scumtell against ThAdmiral. The fact that I was an experienced player in the game that he decided to use this with, means nothing whatsoever. It is not a scumtell to have someone else decide they will trust in your abilities as a player.
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:51 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

xyzzy wrote:
ThAdmiral wrote:Look the way
I
see it is that mos has already netted us one scum. He seems to have a plan to net more. If tomorrow comes and his master plan doesn't work, or he explains his plan and it's a really bad plan,
then
we may put some pressure on him.
Until then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Plus atticus is as good a choice as any in my opinion
(Plus the spambot thing - it's win-win-win!)
But you're ignoring one crucial question: What if he's scum?

I believe the reason you're ignoring this is because you're his partner.
If I'm scum, then what? I get Atticus lynched, and sacrifice myself for it? Do you think I'm insane?
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:55 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Hadhfang wrote:
xyzzy wrote:
ThAdmiral wrote:Look the way
I
see it is that mos has already netted us one scum. He seems to have a plan to net more. If tomorrow comes and his master plan doesn't work, or he explains his plan and it's a really bad plan,
then
we may put some pressure on him.
Until then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Plus atticus is as good a choice as any in my opinion
(Plus the spambot thing - it's win-win-win!)
But you're ignoring one crucial question: What if he's scum?

I believe the reason you're ignoring this is because you're his partner.
The way MoS puts his argumnt he has either seen something that atticus has said or done that no-one else has yet, or he is scum. He has said that he's not overly confident in his plan, which gives him a scapegoat should Atticus turn up town. I can't at the moment see what it is that MoS can't share with us, if he is a watcher. If Atticus targetted Tony montana last night then he's scum and I don't know why MoS would keep that from us, If Atticus targetted anyone else then he doesn't have a night kill, and it's pointless lynching him.

The more I look into this the more I think that MoS is scum.


unvote,Vote: MoS
Umm, what? First off, I do not have role information regarding Atticus. Secondly, it does NOT have to be something Atticus has done that makes me think voting him will benefit us the most. Thirdly, when did I *ever* claim that I
was
confident in my plan? You are completely misrepresenting my intentions. Should Atticus turn up town, everything that I have hypothesized up to this point will be nullified. However, I am
NOT
the one guaranteeing that Atticus is scum. You need to be looking elsewhere for that blame.
Permanent V/LA.
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:55 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Whoa, that was weird. I didn't do that.
Permanent V/LA.
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:58 pm

Post by Hadhfang »

I never said you did claim you were confident with your plan, in fact I pointed out that you werent and how that could be used as a scapegoat.

However, from that last post, it looks as if you have nothing on atticus, but think that someone else might be scum due to how they have reacted towards him. Am I right?
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:28 am

Post by Atticus »

I have never seen a strategy like this.

Lynching someone to prove others guilty, when it's not even assured that the sacrifice is going to help us. MoS says that when I turn up town, all of his suspicions will be void. I have a problem with letting MoS be our lead player. But then, I have a problem when anyone jumps to leadership

Meh.
"There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
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