Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[podoboq]

Trans tell:

do it now, the mod's online we'll get an instant flip.

an instant scum flip most likely.

PEDIT: Created scumreads after voting you? Pretty sure that myself and Maruchan have had suspicion on you all game. Just emphasized on it more when we voted you.

i'm not backing down i just don't want you flipped rn.

I was bothered by 520, but I don't think you can call it a scum tell. I still think it's more likely that Transcend is just doubtful, rather than scum, but if he's scum, unvoting you means he's you're probably partners anyway. No other reason as scum to unvote you.

[podoboq]

"I'd rather get mislynched than have Maru lynched..."

Are you even listening to what you're saying at this point?

I believe that Maru is almost definitely town at this point. I think it'd be bullshit to lynch a V/LA, and if it's me or Maru, I'd rather it be me. Plus, I believe Maru has more value to this game than I do in the long run. I can't divulge further right now.

[podoboq]

Podo tells:
viewtopic.php?p=8056779#p8056779
viewtopic.php?p=8058916#p8058916

You just linked to two walls I made. How are these tells? If these cause you to scumread me, you have a responsibility to explain why if you're town. So do it.

[Smithereens]

There isn't anyone here dumb enough to not know that Maru was clearly aware that I'm town by requesting policy lynch. You can save your breath (fingers).

Also Transcend accidentally tied his aff to me being scum and only realised it after it was pointed out how stupid it was.

Lastly there's absolutely no reason why you should feel the need to categorically disagree with absolutely everything I say, especially when these facts are not being debated about by the town.

[podoboq]

Podo slips:
viewtopic.php?p=8058967#p8058967
viewtopic.php?p=8059015#p8059015

Neither of these are scum slips. I don't see how either of them could even be interpreted as scum slips. What the hell are you talking about?

[Smithereens]

"I'd rather get mislynched than have Maru lynched..."

Are you even listening to what you're saying at this point?

I believe that Maru is almost definitely town at this point. I think it'd be bullshit to lynch a V/LA, and if it's me or Maru, I'd rather it be me. Plus, I believe Maru has more value to this game than I do in the long run. I can't divulge further right now.

As this discussion has been going on, Maru has been steadily rising up in your town reads, despite curiously not needing to say a word. If you were town, you wouldn't know a thing about Maru, so you would never be able to say that you should lynch yourself over him knowing your own alignment. Further confirmation that you're scum.

[podoboq]

There isn't anyone here dumb enough to not know that Maru was clearly aware that I'm town by requesting policy lynch. You can save your breath (fingers).

Also Transcend accidentally tied his aff to me being scum and only realised it after it was pointed out how stupid it was.

Lastly there's absolutely no reason why you should feel the need to categorically disagree with absolutely everything I say, especially when these facts are not being debated about by the town.

I haven't categorically disagreed with everything you say. You have some reason to scumread Transcend for unvoting you. I agree that there could be reason there. I don't agree with the read, though.

Also, a policy lynch doesn't mean that you know a player's alignment. Here's a post from me in another (completed) game:

On Dramonic: Cakez says this is just how Dram plays. If that's just true, and Dram is town, fuck him anyway VOTE: Dramonic. He's contributing nothing. Call it policy, because it is. Dramonic doesn't deserve to survive into day two if he insists on being useless. If he's scum, we get no opportunities to read him. If he's town, he's the most expendable member of town.
I entirely expect him to come in with a oneliner about how I'm scum, and so are the other people voting for him.

Dram, if you're actually town, and you're seriously so dense that you assume we're all scum for disliking this play, then ISO people and start giving some logic that town can use.

I was vanilla townie that game.

[Smithereens]

Podo slips:
viewtopic.php?p=8058967#p8058967
viewtopic.php?p=8059015#p8059015

Neither of these are scum slips. I don't see how either of them could even be interpreted as scum slips. What the hell are you talking about?

This is for the other players. Not you. Of course you'd love to disagree about them.

[Smithereens]

You're completely ignoring the fact that Maru spells it out in no uncertain terms that

he knows I'm town.

Try again.

[podoboq]

"I'd rather get mislynched than have Maru lynched..."

Are you even listening to what you're saying at this point?

I believe that Maru is almost definitely town at this point. I think it'd be bullshit to lynch a V/LA, and if it's me or Maru, I'd rather it be me. Plus, I believe Maru has more value to this game than I do in the long run. I can't divulge further right now.

As this discussion has been going on, Maru has been steadily rising up in your town reads, despite curiously not needing to say a word. If you were town, you wouldn't know a thing about Maru, so you would never be able to say that you should lynch yourself over him knowing your own alignment. Further confirmation that you're scum.

Smith, let's assume for a moment that you're right, and I'm scum.

1) If Maru and I are scum together:
We are both mafia goons, and Maru isn't active, so will have a hard time participating in the game. I am more valuable, and should make sure that Maru is the one who gets lynched.

2) If Maru is town and I am scum:
Why would I deflect Maru voters onto my wagon?


Your logic doesn't make any sense. I believe Maru is town. It's obviously not confirmed, and I have no way of knowing for sure, but it's a read I'm very confident in. Mislynching me at least will open the game up more, and I think it's a little unfair to mislynch a V/LA, especially when he's so clearly tied to me that voting me means basically the same thing to town anyway.

[Smithereens]

You're perfectly correct, the best course of action is to lynch you today and Maru some other day. That's exactly what we're doing.

You are L-2.

[podoboq]

You're completely ignoring the fact that Maru spells it out in no uncertain terms that he knows I'm town.

No, he doesn't. Just because there isn't a "I still think he's scum, though" at the end of 443 doesn't mean he knows you're town. Working from the assumption that you're town, he still argues that you deserve to be lynched. That's what a policy lynch is. It doesn't have anything to do with his scumread on you (which he clearly has before 443).

You are arguing a semantic thing as a scumslip, and it's just flagrantly wrong.

[Smithereens]

willing to policy lynch smithereens at this point. any town who is willing to self vote at any point in the game is inherently playing against his win condition, and therefor not following the spirrt of the game minimum, rules depending on the mod. No town member should ever actively play against their win condition and lynch someone they have undeniable mod proof of the alignment

If you ever self vote as town, know you just stopped playing mafia to win.

Let's shut up about Maru not knowing that I'm town. This is exactly the sort of bullshit I didn't want to deal with. I'm glad the town aren't pushing it.

[podoboq]

You're perfectly correct, the best course of action is to lynch you today and Maru some other day. That's exactly what we're doing.

You are L-2.

If you lynch me today, Maru is getting night killed. I've spelled out multiple times how Maru and I almost certainly must have the same alignment.

If I flip scum, obviously kill Maru, duh.
If I flip town, obviously Maru is town, so is never getting lynched.

[podoboq]

Let's shut up about Maru not knowing that I'm town. This is exactly the sort of bullshit I didn't want to deal with. I'm glad the town aren't pushing it.

Again, this is semantic bullshit. "Working from the assumption that Smith is town, here are the problems with selfvoting."

Just because Maru was careless, and didn't include this language doesn't make it a slip. In fact, if Maru were scum, would you not expect him to be more careful?

Most of the time I see people yelling scumslip, it ends up being bullshit like this. It's not evidence, it doesn't mean anything. You can't use real, actual logic to explain a scumread on Maru, so you find a post to call a scumslip. It's just bullshit, and I really hope other people are seeing through it.

[Smithereens]

If Maru shoots himself in the night, I'd be thrilled quite frankly.

This was your earliest read list:
karnos
Chip Butty
drmyshottyizsik
PenguinPower
Smithereens
MURDERCAT

After that read list occurred, you did not give a single piece of your thoughts about Maru chan, and now boom, he's so strongly town that you'd die in his place.

Nup, not buying your bullshit. Just let Maru go and we'll sort him out later. I know you're attempting to influence our thoughts on him and frankly the less you say the better. Idk why I've been talking with a scum for so long at any rate, waste of my time I'm going to sleep goodnight.

[podoboq]

After that read list occurred, you did not give a single piece of your thoughts about Maru chan, and now boom, he's so strongly town that you'd die in his place.

This is just straight up a misrep, as anyone who read the game should remember.

Here's a readslist. General thoughts coming up after.
If they aren't on the list, I've determined they don't have enough content to start trying to inform a read.

TOWNY:

Spoiler: karnos

He was right that unvoting me is bad play. You should keep the pressure on so that if I'm scum, the pressure causes me to post weird and gives you an opportunity to read me. Pointing out that theory could have come from scum or town, but when so many people came off my wagon, it seems like legit annoyed town, rather than scum.

Spoiler: Maruchan

Already explained. I liked his wall. Haven't read the recent one, yet. That's next.

Spoiler: Transcend

Recent interactions are pretty good. I like that he calls out karnos and shotty as probably TvT, and asks them to break it up, when what they're doing is causing a rift in the town. Can only be scum if shotty is also scum, and he was coaching, which I'm just gonna say is unlikely.

Spoiler: DixC

Interaction with shotty is too insensitive to be scummy. If I'm wrong, and he's actually just that bad at being scum, then it should be easy to lynch him in the future, so I'm willing to just assume he's town for now.

NULL:

Spoiler: Chip Butty

In general, I like his thoughts on the game, but it also seems like he's not searching for town, which is scummy.

Spoiler: drmyshottyizsik

A lot of bad interactions, but I've yet to determine if they're scummy or just shotty feeling off, which would make sense. Unvoting me was weird, and could be scum going for town points, but usually scum don't unvote there in fear that the wagon dissolves. Basically I'm just torn here, but there's a lot to read.

SCUMMY:

Spoiler: Smithereens

Bad play on my wagon. I don't like how Smithereens defended Maruchan, but then is also voting me when I unvoted Maruchan. It seems inconsistent. If Smith saw what I saw with Maru, I feel like he'd come to my defense, or at the least, stay out of it, but instead he voted me.

My vote looks sketchy~~

I had an irresistible urge to just lynch a fucker, I'm not gonna lie to you :3 I'm awful.

There's still time to unvote him and lynch someone else though...

This is scummy.

Spoiler: MURDERCAT

Seems opportunistic, and posts a lot without contributing much of anything. He seems to be the second person to say anything he says, which is a sign of someone trying to blend in while still pushing their own agenda.

Spoiler: Ranger

In my experience with Ranger (day one of Musical Mafia), her reads were pretty damn good. She's scumreading me here (more than anyone else), despite townreading me as town in that game. If she's so good at reads, there are three options: 1) I'm actually scum and she's right, 2) I'm actually town, and she's scum supporting a lynch without pushing it, or 3) I'm just way harder to read than I thought. I know that (1) is out. I don't think it's (3). Plus, this:

I would like to know why you seem to have me in the definitely scum tier and why karnos seems to be chilling in the definitely town tier.

I don't recall making a statement like this!

She literally has me at the bottom of her tierlist in all three of her reads posts, and karnos at the top in the last two. I've seen how her tier lists are organized from Musical Mafia, so I'm assuming she's using the same style, where bottom is certainly scum and top is certainly town. So I have no idea where that quote is coming from.

I was literally L-1ed for reading Maru as obvtown in the early part of the day. At no point did my read on Maru decline. It has been completely consistent, and saying otherwise is just flagrantly a lie.

The readslist that he quoted (completely out of its context) was reads only on players who were voting on my wagon.

[podoboq]

PEDIT: Okay who do you think is scum on the Podo lynch?

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but these were the six on my wagon when it hit L-1, in order of when they voted:
Chip Butty, drmyshottyizsik, MURDERCAT, Smithereens, karnos, PenguinPower

These are my reads on them:

karnos
Chip Butty
drmyshottyizsik

PenguinPower

Smithereens
MURDERCAT

For reference. Smith looked back and found this, but didn't think to link it so people would be able to see it in its context, and didn't think to include that this was only a list of players on my wagon.

[podoboq]

I'm sorry if people think I'm flooding the thread, but come on. Somebody please read some of this shit.

[MURDERCAT]

maybe later

[Maruchan]

smithereens has literally driven me to giving 0 fucks about this game, because I cba to play with someone so blatantly dumb. I actually kind of wish I would get lynched, just so I can make a "bah" post stating "-points at smithereens- hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. -walks away-" and be able to watch his in-game reactions to being a complete tool.

Anyways, a quick meta dive of my past games and people calling out "scumslips" on town.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... sf=msgonly Me and my MAFIA PARTNER, as MAFIA, called out a TOWNY PLAYER on his UBER BAD SCUMSLIP of responding to a fake day-vig shot as "nice shot" meaning he was caught-scum congratulating town. We successfully pushed this concept to lynching him day one, AND I AS A MAFIA MEMBER GAVE THE HAMMER AND SUCCESSFULLY AVOIDED THE SUSPICION!

Pro-scumslip-finding skills town, you dumbfucks.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... sf=msgonly in this game, espresso (who was town) "scumslipped" and said "I swear to fucking god I'm not town" as well as (in a game with a mechanic where the 9 players are within 3 pools of 3 and one of each pool of 3 is guaranteed to be scum) said that he would lynch the second day within his 3-player pool after lynching in it the first day (meaning he thought he was lynching town). Both of these were called out as scumslips, 1. for saying explicitly he wasn't town, and 2. for implying the vote he had was on town by saying he wasn't on his only scum in his 3-man group. CORRECTION: in TWO separate posts, TWO he said "I swear to fucking god I'm not town". Scumslip right? yet he was town as yo ucan see.

Was this a good scumslip eh?

There's more that I CBA to find but I'm going to go for one last one that is a self-meta.

Although now that I look back, I pretty much gave the town the win on a silver platter because timeater can not post a single word and he is still more likely to win.

As town, I said, after a fuckup that was BASICALLY HANDING THE GAME TO THE SCUMTEAM, that I had handed the

TOWN

the win on a silver platter. it was one of numerous "scumslips" I made in my <24 hours alive for the short as fuck day one of this game. Go read it, it's quite hilarious in hindsight.



So, please explain to me how reliable your "scumslip" theory is again? Especially when I already explained how it wasn't, and you completely ignored it?


RE: Anything else that happened since my last post, you'll have to ping me directly if you want input as simthereens' shitposting has made me completely skim through the past 10 pages of horse manure.

[DixC]

"I'd rather get mislynched than have Maru lynched..."

Are you even listening to what you're saying at this point?

I believe that Maru is almost definitely town at this point. I think it'd be bullshit to lynch a V/LA, and if it's me or Maru, I'd rather it be me. Plus,

I believe Maru has more value to this game than I do in the long run.

I can't divulge further right now.

I simply cannot figure out why anyone would say that.

[drmyshottyizsik]

"I'd rather get mislynched than have Maru lynched..."

Are you even listening to what you're saying at this point?

I believe that Maru is almost definitely town at this point. I think it'd be bullshit to lynch a V/LA, and if it's me or Maru, I'd rather it be me. Plus,

I believe Maru has more value to this game than I do in the long run.

I can't divulge further right now.

I simply cannot figure out why anyone would say that.

I call it the passive self bus.

[karnos]

It's basically the same as voting self, as far as being town and going against win condition.

[drmyshottyizsik]

No he is just trying to create WIFOM