Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Fromage]

Potentially there the scenario where you really are town and are hoping the other detective can catch the scum making your kill but that’s 1/14 chance of that happening and those odds are slim AND they’re one shot, once scum shoot you they now know which guy to send to kill after that one night

7% is already significantly higher than 0%. And your odds are based on random play. I think the real odds are higher than 1/14th

[Fromage]

So do us a favor, full claim please because at this point you’re being taken out tonight no matter what

How can you be so sure of this?

[Fromage]

And I'd really love to know where you get SR's from Eragon and myself.

You just sheeped the others and put me at L-1 like it was no big deal. And that's after A50 had said running unclaimed people up was bad. You also speculate about PRs when we previously established it was anti-town. 593 So I don't have a firm scumread of you but these actions are definitely anti-town.

[Wh4t]

So what makes you believe fromage 100%? Is is the lack of substance behind his statements? His blanket claim of PR? You "suspected" he was PR because of lurking, but claimed I was scumlurking? What is the deal here???

Obviously I haven't explained myself well. At first I nitpicked his ISO noticing discrepancies between reads, but after reviewing it a few times I liked how he scumread Eragon contrary to the crowd and a lot of his thoughts hit on good points without an agenda or a need to look towny - this is when I said it would be safer not to lynch him. I said that because he seems very town but was lurking so I assumed the scumminess I picked up mightve been them being PR. Obviously I did not voice this before Fromage claimed because I did not want to out a potential PR. After the clusterfuck of L-1s and the reads I was getting off reactions I didn't mind putting pressure on fromage and I explicitly said don't claim when he was put to L-1 but it happened anyway. If he hadnt been so random in what posts he did catch up then I wouldn't have felt the need to pressure him for reads.

Overall your ISO is not towny Pose in that it doesn't feel like you were scumhunting, but I think you might just have difficulty communicating. In hindsight you continuing to tunnel me could be considered towny but idk.

[Wh4t]

Oh there's the possibility Eragon is buddies with Burger too.

[Poseidon]

And I'd really love to know where you get SR's from Eragon and myself.

You just sheeped the others and put me at L-1 like it was no big deal. And that's after A50 had said running unclaimed people up was bad. You also speculate about PRs when we previously established it was anti-town. 593 So I don't have a firm scumread of you but these actions are definitely anti-town.

I love that you say I'm "sheeping" when until sometime last evening, I've admittedly been on the Wh4t Wagon. Nothing wrong with a pressure vote. In fact, it's a fairly common strategy, and anyone stupid enough to throw down a hammer before a claim AND discussion is just begging to be lynched the next day.

And literally nowhere is ANYONE confirmed PR. The fact that Wh4t believes you so easily troubles me. Not about a potential scumbuddy; but about the way she is going about this game. Has

100% confidence

that Tor could never ever be scum and that you're telling the truth?

To summarize:

You're getting a scumread off of me based on a pressure vote (OMGUS much?) and from giving my own reads on someone who hasn't been confirmed town.

P-Edit:

Spoiler:

So what makes you believe fromage 100%? Is is the lack of substance behind his statements? His blanket claim of PR? You "suspected" he was PR because of lurking, but claimed I was scumlurking? What is the deal here???

Obviously I haven't explained myself well. At first I nitpicked his ISO noticing discrepancies between reads, but after reviewing it a few times I liked how he scumread Eragon contrary to the crowd and a lot of his thoughts hit on good points without an agenda or a need to look towny - this is when I said it would be safer not to lynch him. I said that because he seems very town but was lurking so I assumed the scumminess I picked up mightve been them being PR. Obviously I did not voice this before Fromage claimed because I did not want to out a potential PR. After the clusterfuck of L-1s and the reads I was getting off reactions I didn't mind putting pressure on fromage and I explicitly said don't claim when he was put to L-1 but it happened anyway. If he hadnt been so random in what posts he did catch up then I wouldn't have felt the need to pressure him for reads.

Overall your ISO is not towny Pose in that it doesn't feel like you were scumhunting, but I think you might just have difficulty communicating. In hindsight you continuing to tunnel me could be considered towny but idk.

Thank you for elaborating, that would have been better said when you unvoted without any text. And he claimed because Burger put on the pressure of "you HAVE to claim". I still don't like that you give him the stamp of obvtown, but I get the logic.

As for my communication, if you could maybe point out some things I could improve on in general chat so that I'm not as (for lack of a better word)

difficult

to reason with. Said with a smile, not a frown

[Poseidon]

Also, what about Eragon?

[BuJaber]

Though after the fromage wagon eragon has surpassed anyone's scumminess.

Why?

Eragon wants everyone dead. If he's town it's his fucking fault.
He's on a wagon pogo-stick. Hopping like mad.

[BuJaber]

We gave him the benefit of the doubt that the first time was because of the meta of his homesite. But now it's getting rediculous. He continues to push people to L-1 then backing off and moving to another target.

[BuJaber]

And whoever asked.. we don't HAVE to believe Fromage. If he/she is alive at LYLO we lynch him/her. It's simple.

[BuJaber]

Wh4t - If Eragon flips green you would still townread Tor?

[BuJaber]

I'm town, wh4t's town, pos looks town, fromage is town.

IF wh4t is actually right and both Eragon and Tora are town then A50 is confscum imo.

But that would be impossible. No sane person can townread both eragon and tor right now. AT LEAST 1 is scum.

[Wh4t]

We gave him the benefit of the doubt that the first time was because of the meta of his homesite. But now it's getting rediculous. He continues to push people to L-1 then backing off and moving to another target.

I'm doing this too?

[Wh4t]

Wh4t - If Eragon flips green you would still townread Tor?

Yes. I can see why you think Tor is scummy and I'd be happy to review the read if we're both still here tomorrow but I just don't think he's scum at all. If he is kudos to him because his scum game has improved greatly.

[Wh4t]

Why can't they both be town though? Is there something that screams TvS to you?

[Wh4t]

I'm town, wh4t's town, pos looks town, fromage is town.

IF wh4t is actually right and both Eragon and Tora are town then A50 is confscum imo.

But that would be impossible. No sane person can townread both eragon and tor right now. AT LEAST 1 is scum.

So Burger and Egg aren't town to you? How does that leave only A50?

[BuJaber]

We gave him the benefit of the doubt that the first time was because of the meta of his homesite. But now it's getting rediculous. He continues to push people to L-1 then backing off and moving to another target.

I'm doing this too?

Luckily inferno was town enough to make up for your play.

Why can't they both be town though? Is there something that screams TvS to you?

It has nothing to do with their relationship to each other. It's just that there can't be that many bad town. Especially when you consider that I've played with you, tora, A50, inferno so I know for a FACT you guys aren't this bad. I get that town may make mistakes or may not realize they are making a mistake but statistically 4 competent townies all playing badly isn't likey.

Also 4 people voted for fromage and I townread both you and poseidon so there's only them left. Would be very ballsy of them to both be scum so I assume it's TvS.

I'm town, wh4t's town, pos looks town, fromage is town.

IF wh4t is actually right and both Eragon and Tora are town then A50 is confscum imo.

But that would be impossible. No sane person can townread both eragon and tor right now. AT LEAST 1 is scum.

So Burger and Egg aren't town to you? How does that leave only A50?

It doesn't leave just A50 but A50 would become the absolute scummiest person in the game if eragon, tora, (and you and pos) are all town.

[Wh4t]

I guess your moonlogic could be townie? We're not exactly playing badly if this game is tilted in our favour now. Say Tor and I are town, we both replaced into heavily scrutinised slots and now we're doing pretty well at not getting lynched. A50 is A50 he's not playing badly and some of his posts look towny so we leave him until late game assuming we lynch at least one scum.

Even though we've outted one PR I'm fairly confident we win from here.

Townish - Toranaga, Fromage, Egg, Poseidon
Null scumish - A50, BuJaber, Eragon
Scum - Burger

I'll reassess the null scum and decide on two at some point. I think you might be wrong on Eragon because of his fake hammer and him asking A50 to unvote when someone was at L-1 but I'll review.

[BuJaber]

I guess your moonlogic could be townie?

Gotta shoot for the moon, baby.

[Almost50]

Eragon and Poseidon definitely seem the most scummy on my wagon.

And I'm willing to bet there is

at least

one scum on your wagon.

[Almost50]

If you’re TPR and get outer likr you did, scum will come after you in the night anyways

True, but then they don't know which TPR they're killing and thus do not know which of the, should make the NK

[Almost50]

BUT! With a generic reasoning to not full claim, scum could claim a PR without drawing out an immediate counterclaim

No one should CC either way. Have you been reading my posts?

[Almost50]

But that would be impossible. No sane person can townread both eragon and tor right now. AT LEAST 1 is scum.

Eragon is. I said so after the reread and nobody listened.

[Almost50]

Eragon asked me to unvote Inferno (now Wh4t). This doesn't make me feel comfortable calling Wh4t town. Then again, maybe Inferno being stubborn about not claiming gave Eragon the impression he might be a VT? I wouldn't make that assumption myself if I was Eragon, but maybe he did and maybe Wh4t is town. *Shrug*

[GameNBurger]

BUT! With a generic reasoning to not full claim, scum could claim a PR without drawing out an immediate counterclaim

No one should CC either way. Have you been reading my posts?

Yes I’m aware, they would counterclaim tomorrow in theory

However that does require a full claim from fromage tomorrow to counterclaim

Or if you’re saying he never full claims if he gets left alive, on the chance he’s scum he then has a large influence over the town who conf read him while the PRe are in the dark whether they can trust him or not

I could understand full claiming tomorrow if he’s not offed tonight but we seriously need to get going

And if that’s happening we really need to lynch Tor since we shouldn’t force out any claims more than we’ve already done

SO FROMAGE: will you fullclaim day 2? I can sort of understand the idea that theirs little difference between you claiming today or day 2 except the latter gives that 7% chance of finding scum

Also I really did the numbers wrong it might be 1/12 chance since I assume the other PR wouldn’t choose to follow you since we’d have a guranteed verification if you were town on day 2

If that’s your plan then I’m all for it