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In post 623, NoPowerOverMe wrote:@Datisi who is the wolf on Ico? Let's wagon!

i do not know (◕︿◕✿) andres is giving me that big Pocketing Koba Vibes, and just, pointing out in 322 and 327 how he's probably barking up the wrong tree, how his townreads are townreading ico, how i'm making a lot of valid points (and also pointing out there's no longer voting ico in 507 for some reason?) and is just like that now back. however i'm not done talking to janko and he's kinda Not Here right now so it's a bit hard judge where his head's at.

VOTE: andres

i need more georgebailey.

i am also trying to pocket dk koba

In post 627, Datisi wrote:

In post 623, NoPowerOverMe wrote:@Datisi who is the wolf on Ico? Let's wagon!

i do not know (◕︿◕✿) andres is giving me that big Pocketing Koba Vibes, and just, pointing out in 322 and 327 how he's probably barking up the wrong tree, how his townreads are townreading ico, how i'm making a lot of valid points (and also pointing out there's no longer voting ico in 507 for some reason?) and is just like that now back. however i'm not done talking to janko and he's kinda Not Here right now so it's a bit hard judge where his head's at.

So when I put out a read that has some caution because it’s not strong, I’m fencesitting. But when I put out a stronger TR, I’m pocketing?

You have been very strongly defending Ico, and that made me doubt myself. But I have also said multiple times that I really do think Ico is Scum. You aren’t really trying to get my motivation or look at things from my perspective. You just think you’re right and I’m wrong, and therefore I’m Scum. Well you’re wrong. And why are you surprised that I’m back voting a slot that I have been consistently arguing against?

Ico has directly engaged people voting their slot to try and dissuade them not once, not twice, but three times! All in one day. Calling each and every one of those players Scum, and placing votes there immediately after facing pressure. This is not your typical Town play. I really don’t understand why this is all being dismissed as oh, but Town can also do that.

In post 631, Andresvmb wrote:Ico has directly engaged people voting their slot to try and dissuade them not once, not twice, but three times! All in one day. Calling each and every one of those players Scum, and placing votes there immediately after facing pressure. This is not your typical Town play. I really don’t understand why this is all being dismissed as oh, but Town can also do that.

i don't see what's scummy about what ur saying here, and it's actually *extremely* typical for town!me to do exactly this

there's probably proof of that if you want, i think i offered as much earlier as well

In post 631, Andresvmb wrote:Ico has directly engaged people voting their slot to try and dissuade them not once, not twice, but three times! All in one day. Calling each and every one of those players Scum, and placing votes there immediately after facing pressure. This is not your typical Town play. I really don’t understand why this is all being dismissed as oh, but Town can also do that.

if you scumread me for all of this, can you tell me how it benefits me if i'm scum to do this?

*Factual Statement Disclaimer*

Every single one of points that has been brought up against me is NOT AI indicative. If you look at how i'm actually playing this game, you'll see i'm one of a few players actually sorting thru the players.

*End of Factual Statement Disclaimer*

If the ones scumreading me cannot get over this, DESPITE the townreads i'm receiving with WHY i'm town this game, I suggest you just lynch me today. I'm not gonna make this game about me every single day.

BUT if you seriously expect me to flip scum here, you're dead wrong. And you have been warned by players who know me better.

I omgus so i'm scum? Lol.
I vote players who push me so i'm scum? Lol.
My *progression* this game is bad? I'm one of a handfull of players who is actually putting out effort in sorting people. I'm reaching out. I'm bumping heads. You think this comes from scum? Lol.
Reacting agitated and agressive after being pushed, you think that's a scumtrait only? Just L.O.L.

And i've already stated this multiple times but ya'll don't seem interested so i'll say it again.

There is literall proof this is town!Ico. This is what I do. I've done it before. Many times. All you need to do is read a past game of mine. You won't be able to say 'this can't possible come from town'. You think my signature is random? Hah.

In post 567, Alduskkel wrote:currently reading

is it just me or is ico bleeding town?

to me it feels it's mostly just you :p

(and a couple others)

i'm fairly widespread scumread here

Do you think it’s even remotely likely that three different players all on D1 would separately make arguments against one Town slot, at different times and without obvious coordination (I hate to point this out but I had already moved off you when DkKoba came in and started aggressively pushing you) and all those players be Scum? So why have you decided each and every time to attack the players who seem to have more openly suspected you early in the game, to the point where you’ve placed three different votes on those three different players? Could it be because you take votes as personal slights as Town and feel like you should push all those players? Maybe. I just think it’s more likely that this is Scum motivated - and a real fight for simple survival.

And what’s my Scum motivation for hopping back on your wagon exactly? I already know it’s not an easy choice. In fact it feels very annoying to have to do this. So why is my vote now finally revealing enough for Datisi to vote me? There’s so much resistance to this that honestly I almost can’t resist it. So yeah, that’s how I’m reading the situation.

In post 584, Billy Pilgrim wrote:

In post 365, Iconeum wrote:

In post 363, DkKoba wrote:

In post 356, Iconeum wrote:why do you think datisi is town?

i'm not saying she's not, but i'd like to hear your reasoning behind it

we can discuss that after u flip scum <3

you are sheeping my townreads but somehow i'm scum

also said townreads are basicly all townreading me but somehow you still think i'm scum

VOTE: dkkoba

Did you miss the slip? Or is there a reason you're not weighting it.

if anything, i was at the verge of pushing him on such an obviously faked question coming from a player with his experience
i'd expect the question in a newb game, or from a new player in general.

Why are you giving towncredit to an *experienced* player who doesn't seem to know how many scum are to be expected in 13 players?

In post 637, Andresvmb wrote:Do you think it’s even remotely likely that three different players all on D1 would separately make arguments against one Town slot, at different times and without obvious coordination (I hate to point this out but I had already moved off you when DkKoba came in and started aggressively pushing you) and all those players be Scum? So why have you decided each and every time to attack the players who seem to have more openly suspected you early in the game, to the point where you’ve placed three different votes on those three different players? Could it be because you take votes as personal slights as Town and feel like you should push all those players? Maybe. I just think it’s more likely that this is Scum motivated - and a real fight for simple survival.

And what’s my Scum motivation for hopping back on your wagon exactly? I already know it’s not an easy choice. In fact it feels very annoying to have to do this. So why is my vote now finally revealing enough for Datisi to vote me? There’s so much resistance to this that honestly I almost can’t resist it. So yeah, that’s how I’m reading the situation.

i'm not saying all those 3 players are scum.

Believe it or not, but this is my way of sorting people. I get up into people's faces and I fight them. More often then not, I end up townreading someone i just did a big 1v1 with.
I fought with NPOW, who is now above my null line. Same thing with VP. Definitely not the case with DKobba.

In your post here, you say that fighting for your survival is a scum trait. I don't understand that.
If you look at my larger game here, you'll see i'm actually trying to figure out allignments and a towncore.

I’m just going to also state this because it’s becoming rather tedious - meta arguments from the player themselves are not convincing. Listen I’m not great at hunting Scum. I’m not. I’m far better I think at pointing out Town and figuring out the game collectively via process of elimination. And my gut is telling me that Dk is just Town. I just think they have the game broadly right. So that’s why I am where I am. But I’m not hiding behind Dk. If we are wrong then yeah I suspect it’ll cost me. And that’s fine. I’m really trying my best here.

In post 637, Andresvmb wrote:So why have you decided each and every time to attack the players who seem to have more openly suspected you early in the game, to the point where you’ve placed three different votes on those three different players? Could it be because you take votes as personal slights as Town and feel like you should push all those players?

Because I felt (still do) the pushes were made up, and were based on wrong/terrible/faked reasoning. Take your pick. I fought NPOW over his actions. Guess what. We ended up townreading each other (degrees may vary).

I fought VP. From the way he handled my slot the day after our fight I ended up townreading him. I made a post on the why exactly earlier.

Then when my wagon was dying, Dkkoba joins the game and has this bitch ass attitude towards everyone and refused to explain his reads/votes.
So I ended up fighting him. Difference here is that I don't townread him after our discussion. His motivation for this fight is scum.

Your presumption that me pushing back against people who push me is scum-motivated is simply wrong.

Okay but you’re getting in people’s faces only after they found a reason to vote you. That’s the interesting part. It’s not just that you’re confrontational right. Because if that was it then sure, that could be a good way of sorting alignment. Making people trip by rattling their cage can work. I’ve definitely seen it, though I’m not a big proponent of this because it’s just difficult to keep things under control.

In post 640, Andresvmb wrote:I’m just going to also state this because it’s becoming rather tedious - meta arguments from the player themselves are not convincing. Listen I’m not great at hunting Scum. I’m not. I’m far better I think at pointing out Town and figuring out the game collectively via process of elimination. And my gut is telling me that Dk is just Town. I just think they have the game broadly right. So that’s why I am where I am. But I’m not hiding behind Dk. If we are wrong then yeah I suspect it’ll cost me. And that’s fine. I’m really trying my best here.

That's fair. I'm not saying you can't scumread me. I'm just trying to argue that ur wrong, and what you use to determine scumreading me is in fact not allignment indicative.

Let's drop the meta argument then. Please consider reading me in ISO (again?) and try to figure out what i'm doing. You should be able to see that i'm sorting players, making scumreads, making townreads, changing said reads, working together with others in determining reads etc.

Why are you not using actual AI indicative stuff like that to Judge my slot here?

Asking how many Scum are in a game is not a bad question. I had a general sense for how many Scum - but site meta can vary. In my home site, Scum have such a bad record that games are Scum sided on purpose by Mods on average, with more Scum than you would typically expect. I get that this is the forum for more normal mechanics, but it’s still not ridiculous. And I don’t find it AI in any case.

In post 642, Andresvmb wrote:Okay but you’re getting in people’s faces only after they found a reason to vote you. That’s the interesting part. It’s not just that you’re confrontational right. Because if that was it then sure, that could be a good way of sorting alignment. Making people trip by rattling their cage can work. I’ve definitely seen it, though I’m not a big proponent of this because it’s just difficult to keep things under control.

This actually isn't entirely true. It started with NPOW, who pushed GB. Not me. I got up in his face before he pushed me. And I used it to sort him. And like I said before, even NPOW felt what I was doing.

With VP you have a point, and there's a degree of OMGUS involved. Which is still not scum indicative tho.

With DK i'm not sure, i have to reread. I don't think I instantly voted him or pushed him back tho.

So yeah, I don't think what you say here is accurate at all.

In post 644, Andresvmb wrote:Asking how many Scum are in a game is not a bad question

the question itself isn't bad

but an experienced player does not ask that question, he figures it out himself
or it's a fake question designed to get town credit

In post 644, Andresvmb wrote:Asking how many Scum are in a game is not a bad question. I had a general sense for how many Scum - but site meta can vary. In my home site, Scum have such a bad record that games are Scum sided on purpose by Mods on average, with more Scum than you would typically expect. I get that this is the forum for more normal mechanics, but it’s still not ridiculous. And I don’t find it AI in any case.

i'm not pushing koba over this, either. I merely responded that I don't think it's a townslip and that people should not townread koba over asking that question.

It’s difficult for me to trust that you will point at the correct AI things to read your slot by, wouldn’t you agree? So I’m using my past experience to look for things I typically see a certain category of players do (at least to start), and see if they’re pointing me in the right direction. Then I’ll see more information, and recalibrate. Obviously reading games where you’ve played might help, but people are also constantly correcting for what they perceive to be Scum tells so it’s not fool proof.

645 is not about NPOM, who by the way is dropping in my rankings as they appear to be way too opportunistic for my liking. It was about VPB, me, and Dk.