Mafiascum.net

I should be fully available the hour before the deadline if something needs to happen, I'll vote for anyone over a no elim (including myself if you guys decide to )

Meg, I believe you've been around.

Do you have any further thoughts on the last few pages?

Looking back at what I had originally found townie about Prohawk's interaction on you it doesn't look nearly as town indicative as I originally thought.

I think I still prefer the cabd lim here though.
Strange should make a decision one way or another with a vote.

IDK if I will be here for EoD, I think it's at like 4am for me

Just go to sleep it'll be fine

Definitely!

Rough morning but I'm here.

VOTE: hawkie


Just uh do this once I'm dead and flipped since it's almost certainly me today.

I think my reads lineup mostly with what I said earlier today except prism has lowered substantially, Greeting has risen slightly, and I'm ready to place meuh as town over scum

I still would really appreciate walking through exactly what was so town about it to you then, and what has changed now.

While I wouldn't say this should be a decisive factor, you seem to be interested in preflip associations and speculating about linkage between players based off of your question to me. Cabd flip doesn't really net a lot of information on that front-he's given very little, and only had brief interactions with 3 players (ProHawk, marcistar, and I). One of the votes on him is just going to be to avoid a no-elim. Contrast that to ProHawk, who has had very strong stances taken on him by virtually every player except StrangeMatter. I'm curious as to why Cabd is the better elim to you given this.

I would also love to hear what has lowered me in your eyes, given that ProHawk's interactions weren't as town as you thought. I get that I have never been sure what to do with Greeting after his reaction to my scum PT accusation, and still currently do not know what to do with him, but I was too enthralled watching Slaughter Hour earlier and there are more pressing issues on the table right now. I can forgive myself for not circling back.

This game is also an contrast to the one scumgame you have seen from me, where I intentionally got scumread, caused deliberate chaos and disarray, and was adamant about amplifying the worst ideas of the town players over pushing my own.

For you I'll run through the game again assuming I see dawn.
For the most part it was a slow burn of losing towncred over a few things (Greeting pt, still dislike your side on prohawk)

Actually #466 I don't like when looking through Cabd's ISO a lot more closely. It's the type of post I expect scum to use as a way to sow some doubt if you ask me.

I didn't like how limited the comment was, nor the fact that Cape was his immediate focus. Cabd is a more meta-based player than me, so his first engagement being with someone he is unfamiliar with was strange to me.

He's also personally spectated and witnessed many of the labyrinthine arguments and book-length fights I've had, and seen that they have almost all been Town Prism v Scum Player. That doesn't mean I'm right this time, and assumes I'm town to begin with, but there should have been a much bigger concern on his plate than where the bystanders are.

Though it's very different compared to other games where I've seen people throw in things like Ascetic and Godfather into an Upick game and were scum were a lot more obvious reading them over.

This one's a lot more subtle, and I may be wrong but it gives me that kind of feeling.

In post 638, Prism wrote:Cabd is a more meta-based player than me

Used to be a more meta player.

That hasn't been the case for the past few years, but I don't think we've overlapped in that time?

While I'm aware you are more generalized than you used to be, I think the games I have played with you or briefly glanced at the last year reinforce the idea that you are most enthralled with are those where you get to leverage your own research, perceptions, and insights into players as people. Your insistence on Yomi layers, and attempts to discern true intent and player strategy rather than just a more binary true/false, often by leveraging facades and deceptions of your own to induce reactions, reinforces this in my opinion.

This is looking past the fact that I said "than me", where I think that comparison is true at a glance, but I realize I am suggesting a baseline and trying my own hand at discerning your likely town behavior in response to that baseline.

Honestly, though, I don't put much faith in using meta to really read someone, unless I specifically know that their meta hasn't changed at all. Usually, it's a one-time thing, since people tend to change their gameplay a lot.

Elaboration on your reads list might also be of help, Cabd. Your influence as a player does not end on death.

In post 637, StrangeMatter wrote:Actually #466 I don't like when looking through Cabd's ISO a lot more closely. It's the type of post I expect scum to use as a way to sow some doubt if you ask me.

I suppose. I said the wild assumption thing as sarcasm instead of something to be taken at face value.
I mean, there were those dismissing the interaction as TvT, but I actually don't think it was an absurd assumption to not think that.

UNVOTE:

This puts ProHawk at 3 (E-2) and Cabd (E-1) at 4. I am unvoting to give myself another chance to read ProHawk if StrangeMatter decides to vote that slot. I will still vote Cabd if StrangeMatter defers and does not vote.

I did some meta searching. I am very fine voting ProHawk.

This is from a scumgame of his in 2016 and reinforces what Cabd is saying about his old meta, though it's less in reaction to a case on him but leverages the same attack on another player that I do here. The rest of his site history is speckled with his games where he bristles against similar claims against himself as town.

This more recent exchange from him as town seals it for me:



VOTE: ProHawk

Huh, thought that game was from 2020, not 2018. Not that recent. Ah well, still fine with it.

I can't really do enough to emphasize that ProHawk has a history of making the exact attack he does against me here as scum, and a record of bristling against it when turned against himself as town.

Perhaps there is cognitive dissonance where he believes in it according to his own convenience, but in conjunction with ignoring the more obviously town parts of my play, refusing to engage with my substantive reasoning on him, and willful blindness and refusal to investigate my claims that I am this aggressively defensive as town, I really don't see why we shouldn't vote him beyond the "me over marcistar" comment.

1 hour and 9 minutes to deadline.

Since Strange is here and commenting sporadically, I will wait to 30 minutes remaining, but do not feel comfortable waiting any longer than that. That is a hard deadline.