A Musical Mafia! (Game over)

[SirCakez]

Thanks for giving me something to respond to Cakez. I have to admit, though, that I don't really see how my interactions with dwlee are scummy. You say they're "not very good," and I assume by that you mean they're scummy, since it's basically the only reason you're giving to scumread me. So I went into my ISO, did a find on "dwlee" and these are some of the posts I found.

Spoiler: posts I made that demonstrate that dwlee and I are not scum partners

Because TPP's claim was cleary bs and I knew it. I made good points about why it was bs and no one listened.

You basically made one point; a misrep about how they implied they were an investigative role (which they didn't), and then said that their knowledge doesn't come from being an investigative role. If I'm misremembering that in some way, let me know, and I'll go look through your ISO and quote all the instances I can find.

Yeah. The only things you said were that they claimed knowledge of PR's(which they did do), implied they were an investigative(which they didn't, as podo said), and they softed an innocent on someone(which they sorta did, but this lose a lot of meaning if you aren't assuming they claimed an investigative). You then put all that together in a blender, and realized none of it added up to a single role you could call them, and decided that meant part of what they were saying had to be untrue, therefore they are scum, without EVER considering that they could actually have just arrived at a number of conclusions through their analysis.

Don't think it really matters though, except I kinda do want to lynch you, but I don't think anybody else does. Like, does anybody else see dwlee as potentially scum here? I really feel like we need to look outside the established "probtown" group and the people that have been getting consistently pushed to the edge of being lynched.

pedit: pip, you really need to explain that read on me. I fucking suck man. And the only game you have with me was SF and UNIMUM(right? you were in unimum right?), where I was, well, a fucking marvel of posting. I was always there, I was on top of the entire game, and I had something to say about EVERYTHING.

I can see wagonning on dwlee here. Let's do it and see what happens. VOTE: dwlee

Because TPP's claim was cleary bs and I knew it. I made good points about why it was bs and no one listened.

You basically made one point; a misrep about how they implied they were an investigative role (which they didn't), and then said that their knowledge doesn't come from being an investigative role. If I'm misremembering that in some way, let me know, and I'll go look through your ISO and quote all the instances I can find.

time to get the iso!!

On it!

post 4329

Apparently dwlee wagon isn't happening. Cerb, I thought you wanted to do that.

VOTE: FS

Happy to lynch (in descending order of happiness):
dramonic (always happy for this)
Mirhawk
FS

Will accept, begrudgingly:
Cerberus
dwlee
TPP (this and dwlee are to resolve the conflict. one of the two needs to die soon, and TPP's mislynch could at least have protown implications in proving their reads as legit town's. I will only accept if the only other option is no lynch)

What was the whole Tracker issue with... Flubber and Dwlee, I think? I lost track of that.

Dwlee counterclaimed Flubber's one-shot and then retracted his counterclaim.

Since you've been here the whole time and clearly not as averse to doing a lot of digging, want to show me Flubber's reaction to that? Please?

I treated him like a dumbass but his inability to make any attempt to sort me from his actions is scummy

That's a good point. Dwlee has completely dropped the ball on actually trying to accomplish something with that counterclaim gambit.

Prod dodge / read list:

Def Town:

Marquis

- Pretty self explanatory. I also happen to have experience with her play, and she's playing basically exactly the same way she did last time we were town together. Not lynching.

dramonic

- I didn't want to have to spell this out, but look at the voting pattern. Dramonic voted Axelrod before it was cool, when Axelrod had absolutely no pressure on him, for basically the entire game. Dramonic is town.

pistachion

- duh

Mala

- Marquis has an innocent on her.

Pretty towny:

Cakez

- A lot of gut. A lot of consistency with how he played as town in our previous game. A lot of him having good reads. A lot of players I trust trusting him. I think Cakez is good.

shotty

- Don't like his opinions on the current game state, but I liked TO/Talah a lot. Would like to have him back.

Flubbernugget

- I don't know why, but I like him. I was ready to lynch Tictac, but I like Flubber's claim, and his contributing today has been worthy of keeping him around, as opposed to some other players in the game.

Pretty scummy:

dwlee

- HEY, HOW ABOUT BUILDING A CASE INSTEAD OF SHOUTING INTO THE VOID, which is basically what I'm doing by trying to speak any amount of reason to you.

itlepip

- Kinda just tired of this slot, to be honest. Beeboy was a whole lot of wifom, death tunneling someone who is now confirmed town. Itlepip protected dramonic for absolutely no reason other than "I think he's town, lol," then backed off of voting me when I was adamant about my read, but didn't actually vote for dramonic, or explain why he stopped voting for me. Like, I was 1v1ing dramonic, itlepip picked a side, then just jumped out of the middle of it when I gave him shit for it. Dramonic and I were town v town, and itlepip probably just realized he should leave me alone and let me fight rather than egg anything on, because it was bringing attention to him. But that's just how I'm reading it. If anyone forgets this exchange, and would like me to find the post number where it starts, I'll go digging.

I don't even know what to think any more:

TPP

- If I wanted to read a book, I would have finished Game of Thrones by now.

Cerberus

- All of his votes in the game have been for Mirhawk, which I find really weird. I don't know how to read this slot basically at all. I intend to ISO it at some point.

I trust Marquis:

Mirhawk

- Mirhawk seems pretty genuine to me here, and is reminding me a lot of FS. I also like the basic villager claim, because I'm certain we have some, and he's the first to claim basic, rather than some random power role. So far, the two scum have had weird modifiers. Mirhawk could safely claim that, or anything else that Rob provided as a fake claim, but instead he just says basic. I don't think that's farfetched.


I'm voting Mirhawk because I trust Marquis to read him better than I would, so I'm basically sheeping. If it were up to me, I'd lynch dwlee or itlepip here, or remove TPP and just call it a day.

Of course, some amount of this could easily be construed as some form of distancing. I'm aware of that. I'm hoping that the volume of these posts, matters for something. If I hadn't been absent from the start of the very fast dwlee wagon, I would have jumped on board. Obviously, there's no way for me to prove that, and I'm just gonna have to accept that I could get lynched here for being inactive during that time, and sacrificing my ability to demonstrate were I stood. As you can see from my ISO, I was happy with lynching either dwlee or TPP, I just didn't think dwlee was happening, and we were running out of time.


I obviously intend to be more active now that I'm on the chopping block, so if you have any questions for me, or anything you'd like me to elaborate on, please ask, so I can respond in kind. Unless you're scum, and you have no interest in giving town the chance to defend themselves.

I looked through these and I think if anything, these quotes are more indicative of you being scum with dwlee then not. For example, jumping off of Dwlee onto FS isn't a good association. Putting Dwlee in "acceptable but not preferred" lynch isn't a good association. Pushing Dwlee to give a case on TPP is rather null.

Still the same reasons as before.....
Dram's behavior post-Dwlee flip has driven him up my scum list if it wasn't obvious
Itle's BG claim is believable for now
Shotty is in the Talah slot and hammered Dwlee
Mala/Marquis/Pist are conf town
Dwlee's push makes TPP basically conf town

Not much left over

I'm not really talking about myself here, I'm more referring to your stances on Flubber, Podo, and Dramonic.

I'm curious as to why you suspect those three in particular.

Though for the record I think that the fact that you're still apparently scumreading me for "reasons" you came up with on day one is hilarious.

Flubber has been doing next to nothing all game
Podo has bad associations with flipped scum
Dram is still pushing TPP post-Dwlee flip for next to no reason

I'm not scumreading you as strongly anymore btw

current endgaming stuff

The Pied Piper lynched
SirCakez NKed
Mirhawk lynched
dramonic vig tonight
Marquis
Flubbernugget lynched in f3
Cerberus v666 lynched
Malakittens Nked
itlepip Nked
pistachi0n Nked
drmyshottyizsik
podoboq lynch today

Wtf is this?

^

Elyse

is like cop-clear levels of town though.

Maxous

confirmed her neighborize and

Maxous

is nigh confirmed town.
And Nero some of your pairings make no sense. Like

Elyse

+

Titus

or

Elyse

+

Maxous

would be obvious but not

Titus

+

Maxous

.

Cakes, in Borderlands, just a few weeks before this game started, you learned a hard lesson about confirmable role not being the same thing as confirmed town alignment when

Elyse

endgamed your buddy. Why have you been so quick to townread people whose roles were confirmable in this game?

Who's confirmable roles? The only people I'm townreading from roles are the three conf town obviously and then itle tentatively for his BG claim.
O.o

[The Pied Piper]

Who's confirmable roles? The only people I'm townreading from roles are the three conf town obviously and then itle tentatively for his BG claim.
O.o

Well mostly just on day 1 when Seniors claimed wig vendor. You were right to townread them, but it was during the Ranger lynch when she was one of your top townreads, but you went onto to her because Seniors claimed wig vendor and because you were townreading the people who were pushing her (mostly

Spiffeh

I think but the rest of the wagon, too, even though she'd said she wouldn't be around at the deadline and she'd refused to claim her role (and therefore could've had a more important role than fruit vendor).

It's fresh on my mind because I've spent a couple days with your ISO.


I don't think you were townreading anybody incorrectly for their claims. You doubtcasted Skybird's claim, for example, and I'm also townreading Marquis/shotty. But it stood out to me when I was reading Borderlands.

[pistachi0n]

I want to vote dramonic now, he's doing a great job and hitting all the "scum wouldn't be stupid enough to do that" marks.

VOTE: dramonic

He didn't acknowledge Skybird at all, his iso has 6 instances of the word "skybird" and 3 of them are after she was lynched. None of the 3 from when she was in the game are direct interactions or reads.

Skybird didn't address dramonic either except for one townread. She also barely addressed Dwlee/Sakura and Axelrod.

[SirCakez]

The Fruit Vendor thing was a special case because I didn't see scum having that role. I went over it a lot back when FS was still alive.
Also in Borderlands since you brought that up a large part of the reason why I was townreading Elyse iirc was because I didn't think scum would have Claptrap as a fakeclaim considering the quality of our fakeclaim.

[The Pied Piper]

Oh, ok. (yeah, at the time you said you weren't mislynching another fruit vendor, so i was hoping there was a story behind that.)

It sucks that the quality of the fakeclaims was not evenly distributed in that game, then. And it makes sense that the true reason for your townread wasn't expressed in the thread, then. That helps.


In Borderlands, you spent a lot of the early game talking back and forth with beeboy. I didn't read much outside of you guys' ISO because 200 page game that I'm not in, but you guys talked to each other so much it seemed like you were tied pretty closely together but he wasn't lynched after you died so I guess not. But you had a lot of interactions where on one page you were defending him from Rob's push and then on the very next page he was your second favourite lynch candidate.

Rob why are you completely flipping out? Yeah beeboy is being super scummy right now but that doesn't warrant caps spam and swearing.

Dwlee is still the priority for me. Beeboy is second in line for a turn on the rope.
Elyse give us drunk reads.

It's like you were constantly distancing from each other and working together at the same time. But you didn't get caught so good job.

In this game, you interacted less with Skybird/Axel/dwlee than you did with most townies, so kind of the opposite of Borderlands, but the kind of opposite that would be easy to achieve I think?

I could do an Axel wagon also. I can pull together some points when I get home on him.

No longer confident in Skybird vote also
VOTE: Mirhawk
This is better

And this kind of thing reminds me of some of your interactions with beeboy in Borderlands.

VOTE: Ranger
I'M PUTTING MY FAITH IN THE CARDS
Spiffeh if this is town will you be my voteslave tomorrow

But I have no idea why you'd shoot Spiffeh after he promised to be your vote slave on day 2 if Ranger flipped town.

[SirCakez]

He didn't actually promise that, he refused after I asked.
Also the game I was referring to was Legend of Zelda where we mislynched a fruit vendor day 1 despite my misgivings about their claim.

[The Pied Piper]

ugh I missed that because I wasn't jumping out of the ISOs enough and was relying on memory.

(Thanks for saying what game the fruit vendor thing came from!)

[pistachi0n]

Dramonic also didn't interact with Axelrod much. There was one vote in him in the very early game. After that, dramonic argued with him a little bit but never voted him again. It looks like distancing.

Axelrod scumread dram--he also scumread the Dwlee slot and Skybird--so it makes me wonder if he was bussing all his buddies.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Dram

[itlepip]

VOTE: Dram

wait I was already voting this I think? Fuck I'm tired sorry guys. w/e

[dramonic]

He didn't acknowledge Skybird at all, his iso has 6 instances of the word "skybird" and 3 of them are after she was lynched. None of the 3 from when she was in the game are direct interactions or reads.

I dont think I interacted much with mala, you, mirhawk, cakez or shotty/to either by that point. Except maybe to call them morons.
We must be one huge scumteam

[podoboq]

When I'm scum and under pressure, I feel compelled to prove I'm town, which detracts from actually playing town

I feel compelled to prove I'm town whenever town is voting for me, regardless of my alignment. I think that's true for most players. My win condition, regardless of alignment, is forwarded by me surviving in the game.

I feel like I haven't stopped contributing to town here. My goal is, and always has been, to be completely transparent. When I'm sheeping players, I explain that that's what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it. I make sure to provide read lists frequently, because my opinions on slots naturally evolve throughout the game. When my scumreads do something that is kind of towny, I try to point it out, and vice versa. This is all stuff that could make people think I'm scum, but I don't care that it's seen as scummy, because it's more important to me as town to relay my thoughts as accurately as possible than it is to be perceived as town.

This is stuff I haven't stopped doing today, even though I'm part of the lynch pool. I've just also focused on responding to people who are scumreading me, because I want them to show me the same level of transparency.

[dramonic]

Well I agree you are pretty transparent

[podoboq]

Well I agree you are pretty transparent

This sounds genuine, but I feel like there's some more veiled patronizing going on.

[dramonic]

(Transparently scum)

[podoboq]

There it is.

[SirCakez]

I think Podo and dram should both claim.

[podoboq]

I think Podo and dram should both claim.

I've been wanting to anyway. Why wait until I'm at L-1.

I'm vanilla townie. Flavor is Pippin from Pippin.

I believed Mirhawk's claim because I trust that if there's rarely just one VT. Usually 0 or 2+, but not one. So I knew there would probably be another.

[pistachi0n]

I think Podo and dram should both claim.

I agree.

[SirCakez]

Ranger flipped VT...

[podoboq]

I believed Mirhawk's claim because I trust that there's rarely just one VT. Usually 0 or 2+, but not one. So I knew there would probably be another.

p-edit

[dramonic]

I feel no desire to claim

[podoboq]

Ranger flipped VT...

Wow. I had completely forgotten that. I still trust Mirhawk's claim. I was frankly werided out when I thought it was just him and me.

[dramonic]

[podoboq]

Mirhawk - Mirhawk seems pretty genuine to me here, and is reminding me a lot of FS. I also like the basic villager claim, because

I'm certain we have some

, and he's the first to claim basic, rather than some random power role. So far, the two scum have had weird modifiers. Mirhawk could safely claim that, or anything else that Rob provided as a fake claim, but instead he just says basic. I don't think that's farfetched.

This is the crumb. It was dumb of me to have forgotten Ranger at this time, but oops.