New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[implosion]

(this is not a hammer)

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: Almost50

[Zachstralkita]

(this is not a hammer)

I hope this wasn't to make me look even more like a fucking idiot when you actually do it.

[implosion]

Anyway I've honestly kind of been waiting to actually commit mentally to rereading until one of you voted the other >.>

I don't think I've ever actually been the hammer vote in 3p lylo on mafiascum, impressively. I've been the crossvoting townie and the crossvoting scum but never the hammer as far as I can remember.

I'm going to ISO scum mentions of each other and both of you and compile a list of the biggest things that are blocking me in my head from seeing this game either way. I have by no means made my decision yet. I really don't think that A50 is just a scum goon (it's possible) but one possibility that I thought of on the bus home that I'm also entertaining is that he could be a mafia backup jailkeeper. Otherwise idk why they wouldn't have just had airick claim the jk if they wanted to. They wouldn't know what power roles were in the game at that point, could easily have been caught by a tracker or watcher etc. Maybe. He could also just be vanilla scum potentially.

[Zachstralkita]

God damn it, implosion. Now I know it for sure. It has to be A50. WHAT do I have to do to convince you of this?

Would you like me to quote you a bunch of fluffy scummy ostrich fur posts by him?

[Almost50]

OK, please hold on and let me address the last Zach post point by point (those points that I think do matter)

[Zachstralkita]

Otherwise idk why they wouldn't have just had airick claim the jk if they wanted to.

Because if A50 does it and got vigged or miraculously lynched, the scum doesn't lose their actual jailkeeper? That claim drew the entire spotlight on him.

[Zachstralkita]

OK, please hold on and let me address the last Zach post point by point (those points that I think do matter)

This is scum

If you don't hammer him he's only going to cloud your judgement more, implosion. He's survived this far.

[Almost50]

He couldn't have done the numbers in his head, and went to 4, and said, " Oh, shit. I guess scum shot Lapsa too."

OK. What "other" meaning does my quoted post have, if not "scum must've targeted Lapsa"? The reason I did eventually claim is people were wondering who the mafia shot, and YOU -good sir- were suggesting they might've targeted you (which -by implication- was a blatant attempt by you to clear yourself by portraying as a "mafia target").

[Zachstralkita]

He couldn't have done the numbers in his head, and went to 4, and said, " Oh, shit. I guess scum shot Lapsa too."

OK. What "other" meaning does my quoted post have, if not "scum must've targeted Lapsa"? The reason I did eventually claim is people were wondering who the mafia shot, and YOU -good sir- were suggesting they might've targeted you (which -by implication- was a blatant attempt by you to clear yourself by portraying as a "mafia target").

You're missing the point. The point was, if YOU came to that conclusion there was NO NEED to claim Jailkeeper.

were suggesting they might've targeted you (which -by implication- was a blatant attempt by you to clear yourself by portraying as a "mafia target").

Dunnstral also did the same thing, this was before he claimed vig and the kill on Lapsa, thus by extension being before you claimed.

What you just said has no relevance.

[Zachstralkita]

fucking quote tags

[Almost50]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Also, also, that is an emus, not an ostrich. Now let me finish my talk!

[Zachstralkita]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.!

One this is irrelevant because implosion is ten thousand percent town -- he would have voted and won by now. OF COURSE you're scum.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Did they promote you to Chief Inspector at Scotland Yard yet? You realized I already acknowledged that, and that's why I'm voting YOU, right? Yep, you did.

[Almost50]

1- No need to quote this, but I never claimed I was a beginner.

2-

Why does A50 jailkeep a townread of his?

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

3-

Anyway, Airick might be scum yes, but he's not the one who shot "whoever the Mafia shot of the two" last night. But if there's another anti-town killing role then he's right back in it (the kills of last night) too. If it was Dunn who shot Wake/podoq then Airick steps back a little in favour of finding the actual killer.

But hang on, this doesn't make sense at all.

No matter what the fuck Airick was to anyone at that point in time, he couldn't have made ANY kill if he was actually jailkept. If another member of the mafia committed the kill, Airick is STILL cleared of that kill on the basis of being JK'd.

But what's this? Later... we have...

I honestly don't recall what I was thinking there, so I'll just admit this looks pretty much f'd up. What I did mean was Airick was more likely a 3P killer not Mafia, but I acknowledge that's not what I've typed at all!!

4-

If you read what I wrote just above and then come back to this.. does it make sense?

It sure doesn't match what I've typed, but it did go with what I did have in mind (although that was not apparent through what I did type).

5-

Dunnstral also did the same thing, this was before he claimed vig and the kill on Lapsa, thus by extension being before you claimed.

Both of you were trying to force the idea that you were town and got targeted by Mafia, using Dunn's claim to have vigged Lapsa as an excuse, so I felt the need to defuse your narcissism (both of you) by declaring the Mafia DID kill Lapsa (and thus did not target either of you).

P-edit:



Yes, I do realize you already acknowledged that .. IN THE SAME POST YOU QUOTE ME SAYING IT!!

Are you getting desperate, Zach?? Is your logic starting to fail you? Are you now reverting to psychology and mind games in hopes you can trick implosion's mind into ignoring what his eyes are reading??

Also, why did you feel the need to interrupt my posts in response to your quote wall? Are you too afraid if I put it all in sequence that your cover would be blown away?? Relax, mate. I'm not THAT convincing, and never have been. In fact, anybody who cares to read my previous games would realize 2 traits I cannot get rid of still:

1- I cannot make proper cases. Not even when I "know" something (i.e. if I'm an investigative I could not convince people to vote my guilty w/o claiming first).

2- I hard bus my scum partners, bc I cannot defend against NOT voting them if I was called on it.

Feel free to stop by my wiki page and check it out yourself (not necessarily now.. just anytime you might want to).

[Almost50]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.!

One this is irrelevant because implosion is ten thousand percent town -- he would have voted and won by now. OF COURSE you're scum.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Did they promote you to Chief Inspector at Scotland Yard yet? You realized I already acknowledged that, and that's why I'm voting YOU, right? Yep, you did.

Man, this is funny! I can't stop laughing!! You say something and then quote an earlier post that states the same thing, but think bc your text is placed above the quote that you actually said it before me???

[Zachstralkita]

Mate, your paranoia calling every post I make scum is really getting to me. Actually, what you're doing IS the scummy behaviour at it's prime, and leaves no further doubts on my mind.!

One this is irrelevant because implosion is ten thousand percent town -- he would have voted and won by now. OF COURSE you're scum.

Also, implosion is here and he has us both voting eachother, so he is 100% town now, bc why would he not just hammer either of us and claim the win if he was scum??

Did they promote you to Chief Inspector at Scotland Yard yet? You realized I already acknowledged that, and that's why I'm voting YOU, right? Yep, you did.

Man, this is funny! I can't stop laughing!! You say something and then quote an earlier post that states the same thing, but think bc your text is placed above the quote that you actually said it before me???

My VOTE on you before YOUR post was the acknowledgement of that. If I considered implosion was scum I wouldn't have voted you to let him hammer.

Seriously, selfvote.

Also, why did you feel the need to interrupt my posts in response to your quote wall? Are you too afraid if I put it all in sequence that your cover would be blown away?? Relax, mate. I'm not THAT convincing, and never have been. In fact, anybody who cares to read my previous games would realize 2 traits I cannot get rid of still:

I don't care about the rest of your points because town is in autowin if implosion lynches you. But this is just doubtcasting me for no reason. Everyone in this thread should know that I post like a coked up spidermonkey. It annoys people.



If implosion is scum here, he's absolutely heartless, probably the type of sick motherfucker that pours milk BEFORE the cereal,and I'm going to be taking a break from my life to collect myself emotionally if he is.

[implosion]

Alright. Let's go ahead and compile a list of reasons right now for A50 being town:

Spoiler:

-The claim. Although I agree with Zach that the logic for it isn't great as town, it's a train of thought that i can certainly see happening. I just really don't see a ton of scum motivation for the d2 jailkeeper claim. A50 wasn't really under pressure, the result doesn't help frame anyone, it sticks his neck out there and limits the scumteam's future options for claiming, he risks drawing a counterclaim, it might have other interactions with roles in the setup making it a bad claim, it might be verifiably false by a tracker/watcher/rolecop (the former two assuming the scum didn't have two full jailkeepers), etc, etc.

-The no-kill. I protected A50 that night so if he is scum he chose to no-kill on n4. I don't see motivation for him to no-kill there: he has plenty of great kill targets (like dunnstral and Varsoon) and he'd need to whittle down the pool of town PRs quickly as he'd be screwed if, say, Dunn gets off enough shots. If Zach is scum then he's probably a limited shot strongman and so he realized "I got blocked last night, I need to use the strongman tonight" or something like that, which is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the lack of a kill.

-The willingness to be lynched. 6099 feels genuine. I just don't think he opens the day that way as scum with that much willingness to die. In 6168 he looks like he's legitimately trying to prove that there's no mafia strongman, which would seal his doom if he were scum. 6239 is also a post that's very unlikely to have been faked (I specifically highly doubt that he's lying in that post about his understanding of the strongman role). If he is being honest then I cannot imagine him committing actual suicide as scum by elucidating exactly why scum would have to be either him or me.

-Dunn's second vig on Zach failing. Why does A50 jail Zach that night if he's scum? I guess he might want to keep Zach around as a mislynch but he'd know that killing Dunn + not jailing Zach would lead to two kills on town that night which would subsequently put the game in evens, which would be very advantageous to him since he'd be able to guarantee a kill each night.

-The Vedith wagon. This is what it looks like if A50 is scum:

Titus (3): Lapsa, Varsoon, Wake88
Vedith (10): AGar, Performer, PeregrineV, Zachstralkita, beeboy, Titus, Transcend, Boem_u_dusi, shannon, Dunnstral
AGar (4):

Airick10, Almost50

, podoboq, implosion
shannon (2):

Mirhawk, Vedith

Not Voting: None

This just looks absurd. Scum parked their votes on two other wagons like this, and no one wanted to bus/distance from Vedith? I really imagine at least some scum would be voting Vedith here because he was being pretty scummy and I think scum would want to gain some cred from a likely lynch target.

Gonna cut this off for now and look at these last couple posts.

[implosion]

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

So uh, you're contradicting yourself here if I'm reading things correctly...

[Zachstralkita]

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

So uh, you're contradicting yourself here if I'm reading things correctly...

LYNCH DAT.

[Almost50]

Same reason why I jailed YOU. I do jail my town reads for protection.

So uh, you're contradicting yourself here if I'm reading things correctly...

How so? If I have a strong town read and no strong scum read I DO jail my town read for protection. It's a fact. Only when I start developing strong scum reads and/or if my jail could be used to prove someone innocent/guilty do I start jailing such targets.

[implosion]

You imply in the post I linked that you jailed him because you thought his last-minute hammer was scummy, as far as I can tell.

[Zachstralkita]

You imply in the post I linked that you jailed him because you thought his last-minute hammer was scummy, as far as I can tell.

His post just now is literally him trying to save himself.

[Almost50]

"I started getting ideas". The "act" was scummy, alright, but my "idea" was that he was intentionally trying to draw a NK. I didn't want to lose him on N1 bc he is a very GOOD asset to town.

[Almost50]

I mean, how ell do you know Dunn and his play?

[implosion]

"I started getting ideas". The "act" was scummy, alright, but my "idea" was that he was intentionally trying to draw a NK. I didn't want to lose him on N1 bc he is a very GOOD asset to town.

Ah. This makes sense. Actually also a pretty significant towntell since that's a line of thought you'd be unlikely to think of faking as scum.

Have you played significantly with Dunn?

I'm probably going to sleep soon so I'll investigate more tomorrow. Zach, pretty much if you want to convince me that A50 is scum you need to start by debunking what I wrote in 6315 because I feel like most of the reasons in that post are pretty solid.