BooneyToonz UPick: Boon There, Done That [END]

[Auro]

George using his /outs to fish scum out of their PTs
jjh asking for three items right on N1 to convert Royal Fruit into loyal/disloyal
No one "keeping" items and continuously passing (eg. Barbs which convert cop results to true results)
RCE making town cycle-post about how they think scum will lose, and then making a post himself after each one clearing them till he gets one guilty
Leashing half the playerlist to send their sticky fruits to the other half (everyone sending to one person means scum not sending them can avoid detection, but this way, you might have scum receiving them but scum on sending side can't get away with it)

This would've effed us over super hard very early in the game

[chkflip]

I think it boils down to too many unexplained moving parts and too many people either not understanding or not caring to understand what wasn't explicitly explained to them. Not knowing how your role works is detrimental and, what's worse, not being able to talk about parts of it muddles that water even further.

I also firmly stand behind mafia not getting the win here. Alternate win conditions fundamentally means that, since you had to destroy your team, they don't also get to win.

I feel like most of the playerlist was just on an episode of Punk'd and the only person laughing is Ashton Kutcher.

[Krazy Katz]

If rce had used his role optimally the game is broken day 1, which as I said, makes the design even worse, not better

George outing scum from pts doesn't win the game and I don't understand how it would work

Actually everyone keeping sticky fruit is why we ended up voting bte off arson paranoia so yeah town could have managed that better but with 6 scum it's hard to coordinate night mech in a black box game

Leashing the playerlist to send fruit to one slot doesn't help if there's no way to account for who was lying

The thing is that the way it was played town loses this game like 70% of the time and if rce played his role town wins like 90% of the time and neither of those are good %s for a game that both sides walk away thinking the game was good. If we ended day 1 with 3 innos and a redflip off an unlimited daycop scum would be screaming bloody murder.

The setup was just indefensibly bad, sorry. I know you put work into the game but that just makes it even stupider for me

[Auro]

Lack of co-ordination amongst any scum faction is terrible for them given the mechanical stuff going on.

I already said leashing the plist to sending them to *one* person is a bad idea since scum can simply skip.
Hence, leash in pairs! Or in sets of 3.

@Chk: If I was going to win without my mafia teammates, I don't think I would have played, to be honest. They fundamentally had to trust me and had no other choice, really.

[Auro]

Actually everyone keeping sticky fruit is why we ended up voting bte off arson paranoia so yeah town could have managed that better but with 6 scum it's hard to coordinate night mech in a black box game

The bigger danger is not people keeping sticky fruit, but scum just cycle-passing it to each other and avoiding all hard guilties.
Sticky Fruit is something scum *should not* have.

Even if you don't do the half / one in three thing, simply make suspicious slots give up their Sticky Fruit to non-susp slots in a one:one fashion

[Krazy Katz]

I feel like I have to be misunderstanding rce's role because I almost just don't believe boon would design a role that bad where town could straight coalition victory day 1 or get a day 1 red peek, that's like the definition of anti-fun for scum. It is fantastic for sorcerers since it can false clear them but that just makes the role even more stacked against groupscum

[chkflip]

I'm sorry, I just can't feel good about this win. The deck was stacked heavily in scum favor and that's just not okay to me.

[Krazy Katz]

Actually everyone keeping sticky fruit is why we ended up voting bte off arson paranoia so yeah town could have managed that better but with 6 scum it's hard to coordinate night mech in a black box game

The bigger danger is not people keeping sticky fruit, but scum just cycle-passing it to each other and avoiding all hard guilties.
Sticky Fruit is something scum *should not* have.

Even if you don't do the half / one in three thing, simply make suspicious slots give up their Sticky Fruit to non-susp slots in a one:one fashion

Actually that just keeps dave alive but still gets the guilty if you think about it, and he wss the only night invest

[Auro]

I feel like I have to be misunderstanding rce's role because I almost just don't believe boon would design a role that bad where town could straight coalition victory day 1 or get a day 1 red peek, that's like the definition of anti-fun for scum. It is fantastic for sorcerers since it can false clear them but that just makes the role even more stacked against groupscum

I think I was considered a BooneyToon for this.

How does it get the guilty with Dave alive?

Btw all this is not setup defense, now it's an exercise in mechanics for me

[Auro]

Well in retrospect I'm wishing I did submit Elsa Jay and Hydrogen Bomb as picks

My feelings exactly

"Elsa jay" would have been the big brain pick

My picks were "Flavor Leaf", "Boonskiies" and "Pretentious" btw

Hence the cool OP bastard role

[Krazy Katz]

Not guilty, but no ducky reception would confirm either a roleblock or ascetic usually which might at least be enough to force a roleclaim

[davesaz]

Being non-consecutive nerfed the desperate ducky, and sticky fruit eliminated what would have been a n1 guilty.
If multitasking hadn't been the default, I would have gone ducky N2 which would have moved one of the lynches up a day.
I really didn't like the idea of dying, but will take credit for choosing a player I wasn't sure about.
I could have flat out revealed what the confessional was saying, but was concerned that looking TMI would get me lynched and the investigation was worth more.

[Boonskiies]

Keep in mind, people were able to pass the Duck.

[Boonskiies]

RCE could only break if you went 1 by 1, and at best, it would only catch 1 scum. Which was part of it, and relies on you trusting RCE slot as town, and they’d have to do it prior.

Also, if scum said it IN their private thread, it would still flip RCE.

[Boonskiies]

George using his /outs to fish scum out of their PTs
jjh asking for three items right on N1 to convert Royal Fruit into loyal/disloyal
No one "keeping" items and continuously passing (eg. Barbs which convert cop results to true results)
RCE making town cycle-post about how they think scum will lose, and then making a post himself after each one clearing them till he gets one guilty
Leashing half the playerlist to send their sticky fruits to the other half (everyone sending to one person means scum not sending them can avoid detection, but this way, you might have scum receiving them but scum on sending side can't get away with it)

This would've effed us over super hard very early in the game

Yeah, there were plenty of ways town could have dominated, it just didn’t happen.

I actually feel this setup is slightly in favor of town IF town do some stuff.

People just hung up on the lack of bastard advertisement which is yawn. Already went through that.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Extreme swing isn't exactly fun either though

[Boonskiies]

It’s effectively mountainous.

Idk, guys.

Looks like this is going to effectively be an Agree to Disagree type of thing. :shrug:

[Krazy Katz]

RCE could only break if you went 1 by 1, and at best, it would only catch 1 scum. Which was part of it, and relies on you trusting RCE slot as town, and they’d have to do it prior.

Also, if scum said it IN their private thread, it would still flip RCE.

It can get one guilty, yes, but it can get 10 real innos and 3 innos on 3rd parties. At that point it would be correct to just lynch rce and then nuke his poe. The counter-play is something scum also could not anticipate since there's no way to know how his role worked.

Even with the ducky being passable it's still just a clear per night on d4+ since town almost always loses the first to sticky fruit.

so town had one horrendously broken role that I guess was supposed to make up for numbers and the player with the broken role didn't use it

It's fair to blame town for mismanaging mech but the setup is still just... Not fun. None of that sounds fun for either side to me. If rce used his role well and got lucky on town then he completely nukes groupscum day 1. If he mismanages his role then town has 0 counterplay for unwarned culted masons.

In theory tse/mech/rce should have averaged like 3 townclears and then hit a scum around then which still would be very nearly gamebreaking unless it all was on 3ps

[Boonskiies]

It can’t get real innos.

Scum can just say “i think we lose this” in their PT whenever they want

It would have shown up in the confessionals had Dave not died, but early yeah, it could have gone hard for them.


But to think I have such cut and dry inno/guilties, when I generally never do...:shrug:

Every single piece got worked fully. There’s no true game breaking thing. There’s optimal gambits to be played, sure, but you still have to make sure they work out, and if you can successfully do that, i think the reward is worth it.

[Boonskiies]

And I’ve gotten people from both sides say they had a fun time, so

Only the people against it are the ones that are going to continue speaking about it, which it is what it is. :shrug:

Game’s crazier than usual, but had it been advertised as bastard like it should have been, most of this goes away.

Everyone knew it was bastard day 1 too, so it’s just semantics even.

[Boonskiies]

Was always gonna have this end game because of it.

[Krazy Katz]

How is it not capable of producing real innos? You ask one person to say the line, wait for a vote count, ask another person to say the line

I mean as mod you can stop doing vote counts but that would increase the bastardry a lot

And you can say scum could say it in their pt but how do they know they can do that without access to his card?

[Boonskiies]

They weren’t unwarned.

[Krazy Katz]

Ok... So town had one actual invest then if they were warned about rce's role in spoiler mod thread and thus town had dave and dave alone for power?

Ok

[Boonskiies]

How is it not capable of producing real innos? You ask one person to say the line, wait for a vote count, ask another person to say the line

I mean as mod you can stop doing vote counts but that would increase the bastardry a lot

And you can say scum could say it in their pt but how do they know they can do that without access to his card?

What does the vote counts have to do with anything? It doesn’t take his vote away, it restricts him from speaking. He can only vote after that. Or GIF.